What’s the dilemma with Donny’s playing time & Ole?

Jackal981

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
506
Might as well replace him with one of the caftards here in the bench. Both wont get any game time either and one does not cost arm and leg
 

Ole's screen

Full Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2020
Messages
572
Location
Right next to Ole’s seat
Supports
KC Chiefs
Based on fecking what? is this your imagination? DvB is way more physical than Fred. And in the games he's played this season (pre-season and cup) he's shown to be much better holding midfielder than Fred.
You're joking right? In what way is he more physical? He's not really a good presser, and he gets shoved out of possession quite a bit.
 

Sviken

Full Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
1,231
To a degree. Not only game time counts. If he was good enough in training he would get more minutes. He hasn't shown himself at all in the game he has gotten.

And to be frank, he isn't Veron quality either
That's just nonsense. He played very well against Young Boys and after he was taken off we fell apart and lost complete control of the midfield. Maybe it is a coincidence. But then he played well against West Ham, too. For the first time in ages we actually controlled the midfield and dominated the game. Again, he was dropped after that game.

As far as the talk of training goes, why are people even talking about that? None of us know how well he is training or if that's the reason he is not picked, so it has no consequence. All I'm seeing is a guy that should start given McFred looking absolutely pathetic every time on the pitch and not being given ANY chances to actually cement a place. We don't need a bunch of headless chickens running in midfield, we need a guy who can accurately pass a ball, slow the pace down when needed, increase it, etc. And in that capacity Donny is our best player. As far as his other qualities, I think he did very well in that West Ham game in taking the ball, breaking the plays, but again... for some reason he is not a preferred option.

And what pisses me off most about this is that if Ole has some kind of a gripe with him, then feckign sell him. Why even keep him?
 

tweed

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 16, 2013
Messages
157
The reason Donny doesnt play for me is clear: This was an ed Woodward/glazers signing
and not Ole's choice! Let me explain.

From the beginning this became internal politics where Ed Woodward CAN buy the players without Ole consent however Ole WILL decide who plays. If Donny does well, Ed Woodward ( I know he left but that is not the point)and Glazers gain power over the manager Ole transfer policy. Therefore if he does well Ole would have less say on future transfers. In a paradoxical way Ole can't let him be a success to keep control on the signings. As it stands Ed Woodward's signing Donny isn't doing well. Ole has bigger say on the signings. if Donny does too well or he uses him a lot then the club direction will point and it will happen again: he will be given players he didn't choose .
Ole is not Ferguson but fergy if given a player he didn't put on the list of players to go after would be pissed and Ole is the same. whether feegy told him to do this to keep power ( we know sir Alex always mentions about power, and in his autobiographies you can feel that power and control are critical). Perhaps Ferguson didn't tell him to do this but Ole knows this is what fergy and any top manager would do to keep that control. Nevertheless this is a clear power move from Ole who needs to show the money side they can't give him players he doesn't ask for. It has nothing to do with poor Donny' ability. He is just in the middle. The only way Donny plays is if Ole leaves.
Why not sell or loan out Donny? Ole can't have him be to successfully elsewhere or it would look bad on him. No manager wants players that they sell to do too well in their next club for obvious reasons...
 

NK86

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
9,548
The reason Donny doesnt play for me is clear: This was an ed Woodward/glazers signing
and not Ole's choice! Let me explain.

From the beginning this became internal politics where Ed Woodward CAN buy the players without Ole consent however Ole WILL decide who plays. If Donny does well, Ed Woodward ( I know he left but that is not the point)and Glazers gain power over the manager Ole transfer policy. Therefore if he does well Ole would have less say on future transfers. In a paradoxical way Ole can't let him be a success to keep control on the signings. As it stands Ed Woodward's signing Donny isn't doing well. Ole has bigger say on the signings. if Donny does too well or he uses him a lot then the club direction will point and it will happen again: he will be given players he didn't choose .
Ole is not Ferguson but fergy if given a player he didn't put on the list of players to go after would be pissed and Ole is the same. whether feegy told him to do this to keep power ( we know sir Alex always mentions about power, and in his autobiographies you can feel that power and control are critical). Perhaps Ferguson didn't tell him to do this but Ole knows this is what fergy and any top manager would do to keep that control. Nevertheless this is a clear power move from Ole who needs to show the money side they can't give him players he doesn't ask for. It has nothing to do with poor Donny' ability. He is just in the middle. The only way Donny plays is if Ole leaves.
Why not sell or loan out Donny? Ole can't have him be to successfully elsewhere or it would look bad on him. No manager wants players that they sell to do too well in their next club for obvious reasons...
Tldr; conspiracy theory?
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
10,776
Location
AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
The reason Donny doesnt play for me is clear: This was an ed Woodward/glazers signing
and not Ole's choice! Let me explain.

From the beginning this became internal politics where Ed Woodward CAN buy the players without Ole consent however Ole WILL decide who plays. If Donny does well, Ed Woodward ( I know he left but that is not the point)and Glazers gain power over the manager Ole transfer policy. Therefore if he does well Ole would have less say on future transfers. In a paradoxical way Ole can't let him be a success to keep control on the signings. As it stands Ed Woodward's signing Donny isn't doing well. Ole has bigger say on the signings. if Donny does too well or he uses him a lot then the club direction will point and it will happen again: he will be given players he didn't choose .
Ole is not Ferguson but fergy if given a player he didn't put on the list of players to go after would be pissed and Ole is the same. whether feegy told him to do this to keep power ( we know sir Alex always mentions about power, and in his autobiographies you can feel that power and control are critical). Perhaps Ferguson didn't tell him to do this but Ole knows this is what fergy and any top manager would do to keep that control. Nevertheless this is a clear power move from Ole who needs to show the money side they can't give him players he doesn't ask for. It has nothing to do with poor Donny' ability. He is just in the middle. The only way Donny plays is if Ole leaves.
Why not sell or loan out Donny? Ole can't have him be to successfully elsewhere or it would look bad on him. No manager wants players that they sell to do too well in their next club for obvious reasons...
Or he could have just told VDB he didn't rate him and VDB would have chose to sign for a different club. If Ole is truly doing as you say, he's a scum.
 

WR10

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
5,501
Location
Dream
At this point, there's nothing Fred can do that VDB can't do better. VDB has gone and put his head down and become a better tackler/defender than Fred over the past year.

His first touch and ball retention ability puts him in a league many above Fred.
 

Escobar

Poster originally known as Michel04
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
25,504
Location
La-La-Land
Our midfield is so shit yet Ole would never dare to change something. Will coat him his job at one point if he cant adapt and change
 

Isotope

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
18,878
The reason Donny doesnt play for me is clear: This was an ed Woodward/glazers signing
and not Ole's choice! Let me explain.

From the beginning this became internal politics where Ed Woodward CAN buy the players without Ole consent however Ole WILL decide who plays. If Donny does well, Ed Woodward ( I know he left but that is not the point)and Glazers gain power over the manager Ole transfer policy. Therefore if he does well Ole would have less say on future transfers. In a paradoxical way Ole can't let him be a success to keep control on the signings. As it stands Ed Woodward's signing Donny isn't doing well. Ole has bigger say on the signings. if Donny does too well or he uses him a lot then the club direction will point and it will happen again: he will be given players he didn't choose .
Ole is not Ferguson but fergy if given a player he didn't put on the list of players to go after would be pissed and Ole is the same. whether feegy told him to do this to keep power ( we know sir Alex always mentions about power, and in his autobiographies you can feel that power and control are critical). Perhaps Ferguson didn't tell him to do this but Ole knows this is what fergy and any top manager would do to keep that control. Nevertheless this is a clear power move from Ole who needs to show the money side they can't give him players he doesn't ask for. It has nothing to do with poor Donny' ability. He is just in the middle. The only way Donny plays is if Ole leaves.
Why not sell or loan out Donny? Ole can't have him be to successfully elsewhere or it would look bad on him. No manager wants players that they sell to do too well in their next club for obvious reasons...
:lol: Like more than half of the team aren't Ole's signing. So are you saying that Ole shouldn't let the like of Rashford, Fred, mcTom, Shaw be a success because then Ole would have less say on future transfers?

Also I bet on whatever you want that Ed was clueless about Donny. More likely, it was the scouts department that pushed for that signing.
 

yipthatman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
314
Donny had over 1500 minutes game time last season. He showed a few glimpses of talent in all those minutes. For the most part he looked lost and confused and like he was trying too hard. He gave the ball away a lot and stopped flow many times by passing straight back to the person that passed to him, therefore halting the pace of the attack.

There is a reason his own team mates were looking for any pass other than to Donny last season, he was largely ignored even by his own players. There is no way he will get in over Pogba, Bruno or Jesse. Maybe as a number 6 then? Possibly.

These conspiracy theories are laughable. He simply hasn't been good enough (like a few other players). There is still time though if he stops sulking and fights for his place like Jesse is doing. No-one is entitled to a start at United. You have to earn it.
 
Last edited:

PaulRich

Full Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
832
DvB should be given a run of games - McTominay has served just as much dogshit up over the last 12 months and yet is considered a regular starter. As has Fred who just used this months luck up with that cameo last night. You just know we're going with the latter two at the weekend and the midfield showing will be all too predictable. Having Donny play 10 minutes here and there with a run out in the cups hardly builds confidence nor consistency.
 

afatzp

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
44
Aside the match vs Leeds, the one and only game our team played smooth and creative football was the League Cup vs West Ham, and the reason was VDB . Unfortunately we had Martial at front who could not even convert any chance for 90 mins and then we lost the game. I thought Ole should have seen the value VDB could provide from that game , and start to think differently.
For those mentioning last season in which VDB did not contribute much or show the quality, it might be fair at first glance but please, you even can see VDB now is in different shape, much stronger, run his socks off and able to keep & move the ball much better now. If you did not give him more minutes, how he could show you that he has improved ?
 

reelworld

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
8,145
Location
Mexico City, Mexico
Donny for me more accurately resembles the inferior argument that went around concerning Sterling being a "system" player rather than one of individual qualities. I think however with Donny this holds truths. When you consider the best players who have played under Solskjaer's tenure I genuinely believe it's not Ole's system that has accounted to player improvement, it seems more like the freedom given to the players to express themselves.

That's why the best players for Ole Cavani, Bruno, Pogba, Mason, Rashford (on form) have excelled be it against the run of play or if the team has put in an average performances. Donny I feel doesn't have enough within his arsenal to complement this type of playing environment as it's too far outside of his natural criteria of influence in a team. I think Donny is more useful under a more refined and philosophical coach where the imperatives are team instructions and positional disciplines (movement, off ball on etc).
I'd agree with this, but then it begs the question, why Ole even bought him? Why can't Ole see this before approving the transfer?
Also, there's also a downside of having too much player that are being given freedom, it led to exactly our problem right now. Not enough control in matches, and it cost us dearly.
 

yipthatman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
314
I'd agree with this, but then it begs the question, why Ole even bought him? Why can't Ole see this before approving the transfer?
Also, there's also a downside of having too much player that are being given freedom, it led to exactly our problem right now. Not enough control in matches, and it cost us dearly.
Wasn't he bought as Pogbas replacement? Pogba was gone until Covid hit. Pogba stayed so unlucky for Donny. This is football. I feel like the idea of Donny playing is a lot of peoples comfort blanket. 'Everything will be ok if only Ole will play Donny'.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
299
You're joking right? In what way is he more physical? He's not really a good presser, and he gets shoved out of possession quite a bit.
Funny you say that because Fred gets bounced really more than a ball in a pinball machine these days, with or without possession.
 

Kopral Jono

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
2,331
It's a weird mood at the moment with people going completely over the top about Donny and absolutely slating Ole.

I hope he gets an extended run in the side before he's sold so we can see if he's good enough to provide what we're lacking in midfield, but it's not like he's been pulling up trees in the chances he's been given so far.
Good post. It's quite evident at this stage that Ole is probably not the man to take us to where we want to be but slating him for not playing Van de Beek regularly, while having no knowledge whatsoever of what is happening behind the scenes, is a bit weird.
 

reelworld

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
8,145
Location
Mexico City, Mexico
Wasn't he bought as Pogbas replacement? Pogba was gone until Covid hit. Pogba stayed so unlucky for Donny. This is football. I feel like the idea of Donny playing is a lot of peoples comfort blanket. 'Everything will be ok if only Ole will play Donny'.
Not sure if he's Pogba replacement. But let say he is, that still doesn't look too good on Ole and the coaching staff either.
Why agree to buy him when you're not sure Pogba was leaving or not? Also he's not competing with Pogba at the moment, he's competing with McFred and Matic.
This is also not a good look that when the coaching staff realize that Pogba isn't going anywhere, they didn't come up with a plan for either integrating him to the first team, or sell him when they can't.
For the record, I don't think everything is OK if Ole start playing Donny, because I think United would not start playing the kind of football that Donny will flourish just because he started in midfield. Ole kind of football was never gonna change from what we have seen so far, quick passing to the wings and striker with little focus on possession
 

yipthatman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
314
Not sure if he's Pogba replacement. But let say he is, that still doesn't look too good on Ole and the coaching staff either.
Why agree to buy him when you're not sure Pogba was leaving or not? Also he's not competing with Pogba at the moment, he's competing with McFred and Matic.
This is also not a good look that when the coaching staff realize that Pogba isn't going anywhere, they didn't come up with a plan for either integrating him to the first team, or sell him when they can't.
For the record, I don't think everything is OK if Ole start playing Donny, because I think United would not start playing the kind of football that Donny will flourish just because he started in midfield. Ole kind of football was never gonna change from what we have seen so far, quick passing to the wings and striker with little focus on possession
What would be worse if Pogba did go and Ole didn't have a replacement signed up. The fans wouldn't have stood for that. Grealish was ideal but way too expensive as I understood it. Donny was a sound buy but because Pogba stayed it just hasn't worked out as it was meant to. Apart from McFreds positions, United are strong in all positions and Donny wont lay a claim to any of them. If he stays he will only ever be a bit part player. I don't think he wants this and I dont think it's what he was promised. All a bit of a mess really. He certainly has no right to minutes though from what I've seen.
 

CanadianUtd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Messages
266
Supports
Vancouver, Boston
14 months of irregular playing time where he’s STILL not even got his feet wet or a feel for the team/league. That’s nearly unjustifiable. He’s even lost his spot on the national squad as a result of there being no gauge with how his form is since no one ever sees him out in game action.


…all while Lingard is more effective and trusted to be brought on when in search of a goal than VDB is. Just doesn’t make sense nor has it. Clip from today is all-telling.
 

Castia

Full Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
13,736
Donny had over 1500 minutes game time last season. He showed a few glimpses of talent in all those minutes. For the most part he looked lost and confused and like he was trying too hard. He gave the ball away a lot and stopped flow many times by passing straight back to the person that passed to him, therefore halting the pace of the attack.

There is a reason his own team mates were looking for any pass other than to Donny last season, he was largely ignored even by his own players. There is no way he will get in over Pogba, Bruno or Jesse. Maybe as a number 6 then? Possibly.

These conspiracy theories are laughable. He simply hasn't been good enough (like a few other players). There is still time though if he stops sulking and fights for his place like Jesse is doing. No-one is entitled to a start at United. You have to earn it.
1500 minutes is 16 games considering we played 50+ it isn’t much. Then on top of that those minutes came mainly from the bench in cameo appearances once every 3 weeks.

Let’s not pretend Donny has been given a fair run in the team did he ever start 2-3 games back to back? I remember he scored on his debut ( from the bench) and didn’t play again for about 3 weeks.

The whole transfer is just bizarre. We pay 40m for him and he’s barely even a squad player in a position we need to improve. Ole generally likes McFred the scary situation is going into future windows thinking our midfield is ok because clearly it isn’t.
 

yipthatman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
314
1500 minutes is 16 games considering we played 50+ it isn’t much. Then on top of that those minutes came mainly from the bench in cameo appearances once every 3 weeks.

Let’s not pretend Donny has been given a fair run in the team did he ever start 2-3 games back to back? I remember he scored on his debut ( from the bench) and didn’t play again for about 3 weeks.

The whole transfer is just bizarre. We pay 40m for him and he’s barely even a squad player in a position we need to improve. Ole generally likes McFred the scary situation is going into future windows thinking our midfield is ok because clearly it isn’t.
I'm not pretending anything mate. Donny has been given a reasonable chance to stake his claim on a number of positions. I understand about consistency and confidence, that aside, if he still can't impress the manager in 1500+ mins in all comps then maybe he isn't quite as good as people like to think he is. I like Donny but this weird make-a-wish foundation cult is mental. If he is good enough to play for United, he will play for united. Personally Id like to see more of players like Hanibal and Amad in a United shirt
 

largelyworried

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,200
I don't know whether he's good enough, but from his perspective, looking on last night at the absolute void of our midfield and still not getting a sniff must have been frustrating as hell. Its one thing if you're behind Ronaldo on the bench, but not getting a minute because of McTominay and Fred must be galling.
 

rron10

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 5, 2020
Messages
405
Supports
Sir Alex
He’s played against the weaker teams almost always and still didn’t impress, I don’t know what fans expect of him.

My opinion is that he is just not suited for us. I see him playing in a 3 man midfield, in a team that moves the ball quicker and presses a lot which we are not.
 

Laurencio

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Messages
264
When he plays he simply doesn't perform well enough. He's not defensively competent enough to compete for McT or Fred's position and comparing him to Pogba or Bruno he falls well short. He was probably meant to be a stop-gap solution until we found a proper replacement for Pogba if/when he decided to leave - but Pogba ended up staying and now he's a professional seat warmer.

However, that doesn't really excuse the fact that his career is being toyed with like this. They could have sold him to a number of clubs this summer and brought in a defensive minded midfielder we'd actually have a need for. I think the reason he had to stay was because we missed out on our midfield targets - if we had gotten Saul, Goretzka, Rice or Neves - I reckon he'd be gone.
 

thedvil

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
68
Did anyone see the video of his reaction when Fred was coming on, looked like he threw gum at Phelan.

Reckon he is gone in January
 

Relfy

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
644
He's a classic case of a player who has done almost nothing when on the pitch being made out to be some superstar of a player being frozen out for no good reason. After all this time, Ole and the coaching team seeing him everyday in training, we might have to consider the a) he doesn't suit our play; b) he's possibly a bit shite. Now I agree it is odd that if the manager and coaches have such reservations that we kept him around the place, maybe they should have cut him loose, but please calm down with all this talk that he should start every week - he's not taken the chances, albeit limited chances, that he has had.
 

the_answer

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
104
He is a "system player".
He works well playing intricately with others, doing dummy runs,quick 1-2s... this is how I perceived him. Just like Kagawa and also Sancho (Sancho isnt the one to beat opponents 1 on 1 and score a screamer... he needs teammates to make runs etc.)

Somehow these players have it hard over here at United.
 

stw2022

Full Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Messages
1,556
Same reason Sancho looks a fish out of water but even Ole is astute enough to know that benching two big name signings looks bad on him.

Some players need a system. For some memories of past glories isn’t enough
 

CanadianUtd

Full Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2021
Messages
266
Supports
Vancouver, Boston
I'm not pretending anything mate. Donny has been given a reasonable chance to stake his claim on a number of positions. I understand about consistency and confidence, that aside, if he still can't impress the manager in 1500+ mins in all comps then maybe he isn't quite as good as people like to think he is.
I fundamentally disagree with you on the minutes bit. It doesn’t paint the story at all with how those minutes were allocated and how infrequent they were. Virtually no player can impress or stake any sort of claim, especially as a midfielder where you’re relied on to create. Defenders just have to defend, attackers just have to make runs or get off shots. VDB can’t just do what’s expected of him on demand. His position, creating requires settling in.


He’s played against the weaker teams almost always and still didn’t impress, I don’t know what fans expect of him.

My opinion is that he is just not suited for us. I see him playing in a 3 man midfield, in a team that moves the ball quicker and presses a lot which we are not.
Now that’s rather disingenuous to say because he’s also played against weaker teams with a weaker squad/weaker teammates around him. Even Bruno has looked ineffective when he’s had to play with the 2nd tier players on the squad. That’s not to say Bruno isn’t impressive now is it?

Maybe you’re right. Maybe he isn’t suited for us. But the only way to find out is giving a fair and consistent stretch of appearances. And speaking of which when he did start in the past alongside Bruno and United created loads of chances (forget who the opponent was), for some reason that lineup was never given another chance despite the fact they dominated.


…generally I’m not one to cry Wolf. However this instance, it’s clear as day VDB has only been set up to fail. He really is the victim of this and it’s been totally out of his hands.
 

Stack

Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
11,198
Location
Auckland New Zealand
Please posts the highlights where McFred have done any of the above. Scott and Fred beat a man off the dribble? McT was in almost every position a 6 shouldn’t have been in tonight as a 6. Never showing for the ball. Giving DVB a decent run of games can not seriously be worse than most games mcfred put out and I rate them more than most.
Seriously? Donnie better than Fred or McT??????
They arent the best but those two are better players, also does Donny play DM????????
Some of you are deluded
 

Berbasbullet

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
13,001
He hasn’t set the world alight by any means but I would like to see him at least given a couple consecutive games in midfield. His short accurate passing could be very helpful.
 

DickDastardly

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
2,793
Location
Mean machine 00
He's a classic case of a player who has done almost nothing when on the pitch being made out to be some superstar of a player being frozen out for no good reason. After all this time, Ole and the coaching team seeing him everyday in training, we might have to consider the a) he doesn't suit our play; b) he's possibly a bit shite. Now I agree it is odd that if the manager and coaches have such reservations that we kept him around the place, maybe they should have cut him loose, but please calm down with all this talk that he should start every week - he's not taken the chances, albeit limited chances, that he has had.
Nobody here is making a case that he's been a supersub coming on from the bench.

We are however questioning the players above him in the picking order.

Let's say you have Bruno, Pogba, Fred, Mctominay and Matić occupying the positions he could play....we can't excatly question the likes of Ronaldo or Sancho or Greenwood playing before him now could we.

Out of the five, you have Bruno starting every game, rightly so. He scores, he makes things happen.
Then you have Pogba, although he's mostly shit in a two midfield formation, when he's in a more attacking position, he's been good.
And then, you have the 3 players who are Donnys direct competition - Fred Mctominay and Matić.

Out of the 3, you could say Matić is the best player out there.
That is, he would be, if his body isn't shot. Which is, considering he's 5 years younger then Ronaldo, quite depressing.
Fred and Mctominay - let's not get into that.

Tldr; feck me sideways, he should really be given a 90 minute competitive chance to see what can he do.
Its not like he's a fecking kid from the U17 so let's see him play with the big Boys, we know he can play, anybody who's seen him play for Ajax knows that.
That's why we fecking bought him for crying out loud!!!
 

Stack

Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
11,198
Location
Auckland New Zealand
Did MCT play as DM last night?
I never saw last nights game. McT has been playing DM most times in the last couple of seasons. I originally asked who Donny would replace?
Seriously, who does Donny replace and does he play DM where McT usually plays? Seriously?
 

yipthatman

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 4, 2021
Messages
314
I fundamentally disagree with you on the minutes bit. It doesn’t paint the story at all with how those minutes were allocated and how infrequent they were. Virtually no player can impress or stake any sort of claim, especially as a midfielder where you’re relied on to create. Defenders just have to defend, attackers just have to make runs or get off shots. VDB can’t just do what’s expected of him on demand. His position, creating requires settling in.




Now that’s rather disingenuous to say because he’s also played against weaker teams with a weaker squad/weaker teammates around him. Even Bruno has looked ineffective when he’s had to play with the 2nd tier players on the squad. That’s not to say Bruno isn’t impressive now is it?

Maybe you’re right. Maybe he isn’t suited for us. But the only way to find out is giving a fair and consistent stretch of appearances. And speaking of which when he did start in the past alongside Bruno and United created loads of chances (forget who the opponent was), for some reason that lineup was never given another chance despite the fact they dominated.


…generally I’m not one to cry Wolf. However this instance, it’s clear as day VDB has only been set up to fail. He really is the victim of this and it’s been totally out of his hands.
That's unfortunate for him then as I don't think he will be given much more 'settling in' time.

It's funny how quick Ronaldo, Bruno and Varane settled in.

I do agree with you about improving though game time and integrating with others around you but you should already be at a decent level to play at United. I dont buy into this idea that midfield is harder than defending or attacking. It's just different.

Bruno hit the ground running when he arrived, Donny hasn't for whatever reason. We need people that can. You don't get much settling in time in the Champions League and Premier league. A couple of losses and the manager is on the chopping block. The Carabao cup exit was a lot worse than people think for the squads development.
 

captaincantona

Full Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
430
He's a classic case of a player who has done almost nothing when on the pitch being made out to be some superstar of a player being frozen out for no good reason. After all this time, Ole and the coaching team seeing him everyday in training, we might have to consider the a) he doesn't suit our play; b) he's possibly a bit shite. Now I agree it is odd that if the manager and coaches have such reservations that we kept him around the place, maybe they should have cut him loose, but please calm down with all this talk that he should start every week - he's not taken the chances, albeit limited chances, that he has had.
Not a classic case of this at all in fact...people are simply saying that McFred are really poor on the ball. DVB seems to be better on the ball, much less sloppy with his first touch, more press resistant Etc. It would be nice to see him given 4 oft 5 90 minute run outs with our actual 1st 11 to see what he can do.

That doesn’t make him a superstar. Same way Herrera and Gueye and Rodri and Wijnaldum and Jorginho and Neves and Bissouma ...blah blah...none of them are superstars...they are just comfortable on the ball and demanding of the ball across the pitch not just in their own center circle like McFred.

Being a good midfielder at the top level doesn’t mean just having a good engine and winning back the ball. Same way good centre halves don’t just head the ball clear and put their bodies on the line. At the top level, ability on the ball and to impose yourself on a game is essential...otherwise, when the team is IN possession (which at Utd are over 50% of the game) limited players become a liability..you can’t just cover gaps anymore because the flipside is you have to be available to recieve the ball from goal kicks or take the ball from the CB’s and try start off an attack by playing through the lines. Matic is the closest we have that could do this. DVB is clearly next. Anytime McFred are given the ball facing their own goal it is heart in the mouth stuff.

Stop manipulating the argument and read what’s being said. McTominay has many great qualities that make him a great John O’Shea type stop gap player. Essential in any squad. He should not be starting CL games unless absolutely necessary. Fred is Fred. In the absence of any other options...we would be foolish not to give Donny a run in the team at this point.
 

reelworld

Full Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Messages
8,145
Location
Mexico City, Mexico
What would be worse if Pogba did go and Ole didn't have a replacement signed up. The fans wouldn't have stood for that. Grealish was ideal but way too expensive as I understood it. Donny was a sound buy but because Pogba stayed it just hasn't worked out as it was meant to. Apart from McFreds positions, United are strong in all positions and Donny wont lay a claim to any of them. If he stays he will only ever be a bit part player. I don't think he wants this and I dont think it's what he was promised. All a bit of a mess really. He certainly has no right to minutes though from what I've seen.
If Ole based his decisions on what the fans think then he isn't suited to be a Manchester United manager.
Again, if your first choice midfield is going to be McFred almost every match, and you can't hardly find a place for Pogba in your midfield, then buying a 40 million replacement for Pogba is stupid management of money.

Once you find that Pogba is going to stay this summer, United should've sell him and bought in a more suitable player that would play than keeping him here. Personally I don't think I've seen enough of him to consider him good/not good enough for United. All I wanted is to see him given a chance at our weakest position, the central midfield. What's frustrating is that Ole does not want to rotate/try other central midfield lineup other than McFred/sometimes Matic.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
26,368
Location
Where the grass is greener.
Not McFred's biggest fan (far from it etc.), but when you see people say VDB has shown more and made a big enough impact to be playing ahead of them I just have to laugh. If he'd look anywhere close to be worthy of replacing them, he'd have done so by now. I like Donny, I want it to happen for him here, but bloody hell has he just looked a big big bowl of nothing the majority of the time.