What does that even mean though? There is no relationship to renegotiate.
What’s your best case outcome from these protests?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Ideal scenario would be legislative measures to protect the game going forward - and rooting these clubs within the culture they have a symbiotic relationship with (i.e. 50+1).
But currently...I'd be surprised if the Saudi's aren't keen, but I think (this may be wishful) that even the more plastic fans are starting to catch on and the mood is about the least ideal for a state to get involved now. It will be a PR disaster.
I can see some nouveau rich people come knocking, similar to that Spotify dude and Arsenal. If they're clever they might secure the funds and offer fans a way to buy into the club at a meaningful percentage.
This may be the best time for the Glazers to sell up, unless they reactive the super league or TV rights change and clubs sell their own games on streams, which would obviously be money galore for United..
But currently...I'd be surprised if the Saudi's aren't keen, but I think (this may be wishful) that even the more plastic fans are starting to catch on and the mood is about the least ideal for a state to get involved now. It will be a PR disaster.
I can see some nouveau rich people come knocking, similar to that Spotify dude and Arsenal. If they're clever they might secure the funds and offer fans a way to buy into the club at a meaningful percentage.
This may be the best time for the Glazers to sell up, unless they reactive the super league or TV rights change and clubs sell their own games on streams, which would obviously be money galore for United..
It's a be careful what you wish for in my opinion. I absolutely do not want suadi ownership, I think that would be me done with the club.
Best case scenario is someone like bezos comes in, who is just in it to be a success, rather than being tied to a regime that stones people to death etc.
Being ultra realistic the Glazers maybe focus a bit more and actually start caring about the clubs progress beyond getting into the top 4 every other year, and permanently shelve plans for a breakaway league.
But I fear that even that is asking too much of them.
Best case scenario is someone like bezos comes in, who is just in it to be a success, rather than being tied to a regime that stones people to death etc.
Being ultra realistic the Glazers maybe focus a bit more and actually start caring about the clubs progress beyond getting into the top 4 every other year, and permanently shelve plans for a breakaway league.
But I fear that even that is asking too much of them.
i think this would be getting there. The fans get a % of shares (it won’t be anywhere near 51%) and also a fan rep on the board.
There are definite upsides and definite question marks from a moral standpoint.
I think your right in that the Middle East use it a way to promote tourism and links to the West, which I actually believe is a good thing, I believe the closer their links with the west the better when it comes to the atrocities that many fans want us to distance ourselves from.
I don’t feel the same dread about it that many do but I respect their opinions and the reasons that drive them.
For free?
The fans can buy up shares that are already floated on the NYSE. From what I can tell though, most of those are held by other rich investors.
I honestly have no idea. People mentioned pretty much that it's either the Glazers or the Saudis owning the club. Neither is a good option.
On one side, I support the protests, because the fans have the right to show how much they care about the club and how much what's happening hurts them.
On the other side, will the protests keep happening every match from now on ? Because that would be bad for the team, for the players. The games need to happen somehow.
I just hope that one day, the Manchester United that was built under Alex Ferguson returns (in terms of style of play, focus on youth, club values and competitive team)
On one side, I support the protests, because the fans have the right to show how much they care about the club and how much what's happening hurts them.
On the other side, will the protests keep happening every match from now on ? Because that would be bad for the team, for the players. The games need to happen somehow.
I just hope that one day, the Manchester United that was built under Alex Ferguson returns (in terms of style of play, focus on youth, club values and competitive team)
Anybody spending £4bn who wants a return on that would be devastating to us, which limits any positive outcome to us becoming a plaything as you put it.
Problem again though is the fact almost nobody has the cash to do with United what Roman has done at Chelsea. I mean use Abramovich as an example, could he drop £4bn on us and then invest more thereafter? I doubt it very much, his net worth says he could but most of that will be tied up in assets/businesses, not nearly piled in suitcases.
That’s why, imo, it’s a state backed owner like the Saudi’s or nothing and we stick with what we have.
That the Glzers realise that we aren’t a cashcow and that everything that makes United great are a side effect of local support. I hope they sell but I doubt it.
The best outcome that is somewhat within the realms of possibility is that these owners come to the table. That is a starting point. I do not know how likely this is as they have not seen fit to do so as yet, however, it may be that sustained protests that hurt the brand get them thinking a little more than the initial wave of protests did when they first took ownership. If the only thing they care about is money then it stands to reason that it's the one thing that brings this remote possibility into being. With covid they are clearly not remote from our financial results, even if they are remote from any emotional attachment, and therefore I think this is possible, even if it's through intermediaries.
If you can get them talking, maybe some things can be said that really need to be. Especially things such as the state of the stadium, something that really signifies the neglect of the club that we feel encapsulates their ownership. It is only one point among many but it is a start, it would be better than what we currently have.
If you can get them talking, maybe some things can be said that really need to be. Especially things such as the state of the stadium, something that really signifies the neglect of the club that we feel encapsulates their ownership. It is only one point among many but it is a start, it would be better than what we currently have.
Do we have to be realistic? 
If not: a billionaire(or two) who genuinely cares about the club and isn't too fuzzed about making money buys the club from the Glazers.
Since the above is never going to happen, there are just two opportunities, imo. Either the Glazers completely change their personalities or we sell our club and soul to the Saudis. The latter is in my opinion the only thing worse than having owners like the Glazers. In other words: let's hope the 'Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come' visits the Glazers soon..
If not: a billionaire(or two) who genuinely cares about the club and isn't too fuzzed about making money buys the club from the Glazers.Since the above is never going to happen, there are just two opportunities, imo. Either the Glazers completely change their personalities or we sell our club and soul to the Saudis. The latter is in my opinion the only thing worse than having owners like the Glazers. In other words: let's hope the 'Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come' visits the Glazers soon..
It's in the best interests of Man Utd to be operated as a profitable business. Success and profitability are a cycle so businessmen would have to invest to keep the club successful in order to stay profitable.The truth is the Glazers have invested, just not in the right way but the future of football clubs lies in organic profitability. There's no denying it unless the government gets aggressively involved, but there's no real incentive for the government to do so as prosperous businesses and individuals are good for the economy.
Best case scenario is to be taken over by a country that practice beheading, stoning and for offences such as witchcraft (!), adultery, homosexuality and the awful crime of saying you no longer believe in Allah?
The reasoning being United will probably achieve most success that way.
Huh!
I can feel my curiousity rising..
What crimes against humanity/earth could be excused in the name of league titles?
Clearly, beheading for witchcraft or being Gay isn't over the top.
And this regime are clearly serial killers, so that's not over the top either..
Burning down rain forests?
Nuking a city or 2?
Genocide?
I actually have no issues with understanding why you don't want to engage in a debate over this! ^^
I hear a lot of Glazer hating fans say they only care about getting top 4 and they don't care about competitions such as FA Cup and Europa League. Why is it one law for them particular fans and one law for the Glazers?
Yawn. I’m not getting into the debate again, there’s a thread for it anyway, but especially with a newbie who has listed every predictable and tediously one sided argument against it.Best case scenario is to be taken over by a country that practice beheading, stoning and for offences such as witchcraft (!), adultery, homosexuality and the awful crime of saying you no longer believe in Allah?
The reasoning being United will probably achieve most success that way.
Huh!
I can feel my curiousity rising..
What crimes against humanity/earth could be excused in the name of league titles?
Clearly, beheading for witchcraft or being Gay isn't over the top.
And this regime are clearly serial killers, so that's not over the top either..
Burning down rain forests?
Nuking a city or 2?
Genocide?
I actually have no issues with understanding why you don't want to engage in a debate over this! ^^
Move it along.
United have spent a lot on players but what is left to rot is the stadium. Even in mint condition the views are terrible and some serious questions need to asked about previous work that have left the stadium older befor its time. The work carried out was already outdated.
We don't hear anything, it seems as though the problem just gets bigger each year and it's left for some Saudi owner to sort out in the future. Bayern built a 75k stadium for under 350m not that long ago. United have the income to put aside money without borrowing to build 3 stadiums over the years but it's been lost in the buyout. Now it will cost a lot to even do renovations, never mind build a new one and increase facilities surrounding OT.
I guess some firm plans or shed some light on the leeches to prevent United being discarded once we're so far behind and the well runs dry.
We don't hear anything, it seems as though the problem just gets bigger each year and it's left for some Saudi owner to sort out in the future. Bayern built a 75k stadium for under 350m not that long ago. United have the income to put aside money without borrowing to build 3 stadiums over the years but it's been lost in the buyout. Now it will cost a lot to even do renovations, never mind build a new one and increase facilities surrounding OT.
I guess some firm plans or shed some light on the leeches to prevent United being discarded once we're so far behind and the well runs dry.
I'm not suggesting giving away shares to the fans. But ST holders for example, could hold half a percent and that half a percent could be invested with much bigger voting rights, if the will is there to meaningfully include the fans and pre-empt a re-boot of the narrative that's now playing out.
Great question, thanks for posting this.
There really are only two models left standing and they are sports washing (Chelsea, City) and profit (United, Liverpool, Arsenal). So you have to choose one. 50+1 is a pipe dream unless a labour government comes in and nationalises football.
The problem we have is that the Glazers and the Saudis are extreme examples of both. A milder version of either would be preferable. Abramovich may be a gangster Russian oligarch but he doesn't have people publicly crucified like the Saudis do. FSG may be American capitalists but they do appear to know how to make coherent long terms investments.
The problem we have is that the Glazers and the Saudis are extreme examples of both. A milder version of either would be preferable. Abramovich may be a gangster Russian oligarch but he doesn't have people publicly crucified like the Saudis do. FSG may be American capitalists but they do appear to know how to make coherent long terms investments.
Unrealistic aims:
- 50+1 fan ownership
- Glazers selling the club to a really nice guy who happens to have loads of money and loves Man Utd
- Stopping City winning the league by getting every game forever cancelled because apparently "football is nothing without fans" but also has to be cancelled as soon as a few fans turn up.
Realistic aims:
- Wind up Graeme Souness some more
- Making club owners think twice before doing ridiculous things
- Make it so no sane person would want to do the job Edward Woodward would.
Also the little side issue of the police in this country being bafflingly determined to head down a path that's going to lead to rioting quite soon. I mean I'm not sure how I want that one to turn out but its fairly obvious where its going when the police keep lying to try and paint all protesters as thugs. Its only going to take one video of some idiot police officer injuring someone.
- 50+1 fan ownership
- Glazers selling the club to a really nice guy who happens to have loads of money and loves Man Utd
- Stopping City winning the league by getting every game forever cancelled because apparently "football is nothing without fans" but also has to be cancelled as soon as a few fans turn up.
Realistic aims:
- Wind up Graeme Souness some more
- Making club owners think twice before doing ridiculous things
- Make it so no sane person would want to do the job Edward Woodward would.
Also the little side issue of the police in this country being bafflingly determined to head down a path that's going to lead to rioting quite soon. I mean I'm not sure how I want that one to turn out but its fairly obvious where its going when the police keep lying to try and paint all protesters as thugs. Its only going to take one video of some idiot police officer injuring someone.
Worst case scenario, we lost to Liverpool and Roma (big scoreline). Most probable scenario, draw with Liverpool and draw with Roma. Best case scenario, draw Liverpool and draw Roma.
Best case short-term outcome would be lifetime bans for everyone that was on that pitch, as well as us not being made an example of by FA for this foolish charade.
For what it's worth - I think any fan with even the tiniest amount of backbone both would and should leave the club if we were ever to be Saudi-owned. I think that's the absolute worst case scenario.
Today was the first time in decades of support I've been well and truly embarrassed by our fans. If I'd been the Glazers I'd probably take even more money out of the club going forward.
For what it's worth - I think any fan with even the tiniest amount of backbone both would and should leave the club if we were ever to be Saudi-owned. I think that's the absolute worst case scenario.
Today was the first time in decades of support I've been well and truly embarrassed by our fans. If I'd been the Glazers I'd probably take even more money out of the club going forward.
It is just a show of strength and nothing else. I doubt if this would turn out to be a coordinated campaign to rid the club of the Glazers. It will be a flash in a pan made famous because it actually achieved something momentary i.e., the dismissal of the game.
Unless a group of potential buyers come forward with a plan to buy the club back and the fans substantiate that with their support, no lasting change will be had. Instead, these incidents will hurt the club's commercial interests. Glazers will still claim their pound of flesh at the expense of squad improvement and capital investment. Stopping matches from happening and vandalizing Old Trafford is counter-productive to the agenda of the fans.
Unless a group of potential buyers come forward with a plan to buy the club back and the fans substantiate that with their support, no lasting change will be had. Instead, these incidents will hurt the club's commercial interests. Glazers will still claim their pound of flesh at the expense of squad improvement and capital investment. Stopping matches from happening and vandalizing Old Trafford is counter-productive to the agenda of the fans.
You bet they are predictable!
I just mentioned 4 of the most ludicrous "crimes" that will get you killed in Saudi Arabia.
When you hold certain, let's call it controversial opinions, I think getting them challenged is to be expected in any thread you mention those opinions.
Yup. I am a newbie.
We don't get any punishment as a club both for the ESL and now the slack security that has lead to Sky and the clubs losing money from the postponement.
I think like a lot of others I'm not really thinking that far ahead and just enjoying being spiteful towards the glazers.
I guess the best case scenario is they just treat the club in a better manner. The alternative choices are worse by a long, long distance in a lot of cases. I think i would have got over them dropping half a billion of debt on our head if they'd performed better running the club. They've been pretty inept on the whole.
Take better care of Old Trafford. Release a schedule as to when and how they're going the remove the noose hanging around the clubs neck in the form of the debt. Continue managing the football team more competently. Get someone on the board who can tell them how utterly stupid an idea like the proposed ESL would be. They all kind of feel like obvious ways to mend fences
I guess the best case scenario is they just treat the club in a better manner. The alternative choices are worse by a long, long distance in a lot of cases. I think i would have got over them dropping half a billion of debt on our head if they'd performed better running the club. They've been pretty inept on the whole.
Take better care of Old Trafford. Release a schedule as to when and how they're going the remove the noose hanging around the clubs neck in the form of the debt. Continue managing the football team more competently. Get someone on the board who can tell them how utterly stupid an idea like the proposed ESL would be. They all kind of feel like obvious ways to mend fences
Good postBest case scenario is to be taken over by a country that practice beheading, stoning and for offences such as witchcraft (!), adultery, homosexuality and the awful crime of saying you no longer believe in Allah?
The reasoning being United will probably achieve most success that way.
Huh!
I can feel my curiousity rising..
What crimes against humanity/earth could be excused in the name of league titles?
Clearly, beheading for witchcraft or being Gay isn't over the top.
And this regime are clearly serial killers, so that's not over the top either..
Burning down rain forests?
Nuking a city or 2?
Genocide?
I actually have no issues with understanding why you don't want to engage in a debate over this! ^^
That's ironic. I thought the protests were because fans care not only for the club's success, but for the fans' opinions to be heard and the club's heritage to be upheld. If we were to be owned be a regime like the one you mentioned, it seems like it would be the antithesis of what the protests claim to be about.
The weak point for distant, disconnected and uncaring owners who took over MUFC in a hostile bid and have let the stadium go to rack and ruin and, among other things, driven the vile ESL?
What could make them think twice? What could wring an apology out of them, make them descend from their ivory tower, to write a “letter” even, to fans they would not even spit on before?
This is the motivation: The fear of the two R’s.
Relegation and Regulation. Both could potentially devalue the asset. Both could hurt the red and white goose. Both might make The Glazers want to cut and run.
Take for example. In a 50+1 scenario, you invariably reduce the price. It attracts a different kind of investor. Of course even that could wind up with far from perfect outcomes from a fan perspective, but it would be a start. The power lies with government, with sponsors and with official bodies.
Politics perceptions, financial and PR realities, even social media trends, do make a difference.
What could make them think twice? What could wring an apology out of them, make them descend from their ivory tower, to write a “letter” even, to fans they would not even spit on before?
This is the motivation: The fear of the two R’s.
Relegation and Regulation. Both could potentially devalue the asset. Both could hurt the red and white goose. Both might make The Glazers want to cut and run.
Take for example. In a 50+1 scenario, you invariably reduce the price. It attracts a different kind of investor. Of course even that could wind up with far from perfect outcomes from a fan perspective, but it would be a start. The power lies with government, with sponsors and with official bodies.
Politics perceptions, financial and PR realities, even social media trends, do make a difference.
Some feasible combination of the following:
50+1 fan ownership
Fans given voting rights with the power to veto certain decisions made by the board
Glazers commiting to a fixed paydown of the debt, renovating the stadium, capping dividends...
Wider changes in the game that kill any chance of a super league, or widening inequality in the game
50+1 fan ownership
Fans given voting rights with the power to veto certain decisions made by the board
Glazers commiting to a fixed paydown of the debt, renovating the stadium, capping dividends...
Wider changes in the game that kill any chance of a super league, or widening inequality in the game
Make fans matter again.
It's either the Glazers work with the fans and finding a common ground or selling us to the highest bidder.
Unfortunately like many have echoed, our next buyer has to be super filthy rich and able to buy us outright without being worried about getting much back in return immediately, as long as it's good PR and we know that's the Saudis.
Names like Bezos (conflict of interest, Amazon PL streaming rights), Musk (I highly doubt he even wants to venture into owning a sports team) and Ballmer (who already spent billions in acquiring the LA Clippers plus new stadium costs) is highly unlikely.
Government legislation, I'm not too sure on the specifics on how that's going to work, the legal process and costs it'll impact the government etc while the best scenario but I'm sure that will take a long time to get it done.
Unfortunately like many have echoed, our next buyer has to be super filthy rich and able to buy us outright without being worried about getting much back in return immediately, as long as it's good PR and we know that's the Saudis.
Names like Bezos (conflict of interest, Amazon PL streaming rights), Musk (I highly doubt he even wants to venture into owning a sports team) and Ballmer (who already spent billions in acquiring the LA Clippers plus new stadium costs) is highly unlikely.
Government legislation, I'm not too sure on the specifics on how that's going to work, the legal process and costs it'll impact the government etc while the best scenario but I'm sure that will take a long time to get it done.
Knight Ole of the Order of St Olav needs to make a few calls. If only oil states can afford to buy us, it might as well be a nice cuddly one. 
1) We don't get punished for the protests.
2) Reforms are introduced that ameliorate the damage owners can do to clubs going forward.
3) ??????
4) The Glazers sell to less obnoxious hypercapitalists who have to operate under the reforms.
What the scope for those reforms is, I have no idea. Who those slightly more benign capitalist pig-dogs looking to make money would be, I have no idea. Why the Glazers would sell, I have no idea.
Any way you look at it though, the reforms matter, so that's where I'm hoping to see pressure placed.
2) Reforms are introduced that ameliorate the damage owners can do to clubs going forward.
3) ??????
4) The Glazers sell to less obnoxious hypercapitalists who have to operate under the reforms.
What the scope for those reforms is, I have no idea. Who those slightly more benign capitalist pig-dogs looking to make money would be, I have no idea. Why the Glazers would sell, I have no idea.
Any way you look at it though, the reforms matter, so that's where I'm hoping to see pressure placed.
Look on the Sky Sports website. It’s a delicate dance to highlight the postponement, yet they do allow Neville and Carra their views. Fair play to Sky.
Must be pressures/tensions at this level. There must be debates raging now inside the FA. There must be weighing up options politically.
Amazing to see. Keep it up fans, but keep it clean. Players (at least some) and ex players are sympathetic and supportive; and people will eventually stick their necks out. Gary Neville is living proof. That has massive impact.
That kind of honestly about the situation and penetration of corporate spin is in itself a great outcome.
Must be pressures/tensions at this level. There must be debates raging now inside the FA. There must be weighing up options politically.
Amazing to see. Keep it up fans, but keep it clean. Players (at least some) and ex players are sympathetic and supportive; and people will eventually stick their necks out. Gary Neville is living proof. That has massive impact.
That kind of honestly about the situation and penetration of corporate spin is in itself a great outcome.
Putin!
We can stream on RT and charge them £500m per season.
Eh? Gary is working for the company that started all of this commercialisation to start with. Its a bit rich of him or he didn't want the SPL as a competitor to his company's, Sky broadcast?
Nah the protests are about the owners doing nothing but saddling us with debt and never involving fans or consulting them, topped off by leading the charge for the Super League.
Not sure where your getting that angle from the protests. It’s nothing to do with how morally sound the owners are.
I don't think the Glazers will sell sadly and even if they did knowing our luck we'd end up with worse like the Saudi Royals.
But I hope at the very least they start taking the fans seriously, stop taking so much out of the club, promise to invest in upgrades for the stadium, take the next £100m they make from selling shares and invest it into the squad and maybe consult the season ticket holders more on the big decisions on the clubs future.
Maybe optimistic but any or all of that would be a start at least.
But I hope at the very least they start taking the fans seriously, stop taking so much out of the club, promise to invest in upgrades for the stadium, take the next £100m they make from selling shares and invest it into the squad and maybe consult the season ticket holders more on the big decisions on the clubs future.
Maybe optimistic but any or all of that would be a start at least.
The Glazers wont change the way they run the club and they will continue to pull out dividends, they are too stubborn and greedy.