What can Ole do with the current squad of players to help us improve?

[Eoin McMahon]

I'm not being sarcastic. The question was how would you use the current squad to improve results. That's what I think would probably lead to the most points in the short term.

See this whole idea of doing something drastic and rushed aimed in the short term is what we've done ever since Fergie left. Manager appointments, big money signing, tactics and players were with so many decisions at the club nearly always made without a long term goal in mind and the short term measures we took clearly haven't worked.
No matter what happens this season we're definitely not going to be near the title and that probably be the case the season after. Teams like City, Pool and Spurs built they're teams over 2-3 years and in their first year all didn't do too well but the clubs had patience and it payed off.

Long term I don't we'll be team that goes for 1-0 so I think trying to play attacking footballer is a start though.

 

[Leftback99]

We've won 5 games in 17. That's lower table form.

is it really 6th place quality? Arsenal and Chelsea are nothing special and Spurs are a mess at the moment. It's more than capable of challenging for top 4, with a manager who actually has a clue what he's doing.

How is it that when we were doing well it was cause of "the Ole effect" but now we're doing shit, it's cause of the players. Why is the manager not accountable here? Signings aside, he has been a disaster. We have no identity, his team selections are terrible, we look dire on the ball and off the ball. What the feck has he actually done? Seriously? Can anyone see any sign of any sort of improvement under him based on our results so far?

Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal have better squads. Its not even a debate. Just look at the attacking options they have (and are actually fit).

I'm sure I'm watching a different set of players to many on here.

 

[Withnail]

As other's have said, I don't see how a 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 can work with our Full-backs. They just don't have enough going forward. Shaw, in particular, looks clueless once he gets into the final third. He makes the odd burst into the box and then seems to forget that it's an option. The number of times he's passed the ball to the winger, and with the option there to go on the overlap, he just stops and holds his position is infuriating.

I get the impression Ole's been playing the 4-2-3-1 out of necessity due to the players available. He just doesn't have enough players to play a diamond (I don't think anyone wants to see Matic week in, week out) and I think Fred's lack of match fitness precluded him from using 4-3-3.

I think our best midfield is Fred/McTominay/Pogba and, with James/Martial and either Rash/Greenwood ahead of them, this would improve things on the pitch.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal have better squads. Its not even a debate. Just look at the attacking options they have (and are actually fit).

I'm sure I'm watching a different set of players to many on here.

Spurs do but they're an absolute state right now.

Arsenal really, really don't. Their midfield and defense are awful. We have a much better defense and probably a stronger best midfield but less depth. Their attack is better but it's largely carried by Auba.

Chelsea, really? I don't think so, I just think Lampard is getting more out of his younger players than Ole is.

Anyway, what set of players are you watching? The set I'm watching are losing to Southampton, West Ham, and can't even beat a dreadful league 1 side in 90 minutes! Are you saying that's in line with how strong our squad is?

 

[VP89]

I think the safest switch is to have a 433

Pogba with McTominay and Fred. Pogba creative freedom join further up top and McTominay holding the play together at DM. Fred box to box.

Front 3 I feel should be James - Greenwood - Dalot (assuming the injuries against Arsenal). Martial up top and Rashford on the right when fit.

 

[Leftback99]

Spurs do but they're an absolute state right now.

Arsenal really, really don't. Their midfield and defense are awful. We have a much better defense and probably a stronger best midfield but less depth. Their attack is better but it's largely carried by Auba.

Chelsea, really? I don't think so, I just think Lampard is getting more out of his younger players than Ole is.

Anyway, what set of players are you watching? The set I'm watching are losing to Southampton, West Ham, and can't even beat a dreadful league 1 side in 90 minutes! Are you saying that's in line with how strong our squad is?

Chelsea's 2nd string up front is Pedro, Pulisic, Batshuayi, Hudson Odoi. Its arguably better than our first choice!

I'm sick of hearing on here how it should be a given to beat teams like West Ham away from home with the players that we have. It's like people think it's still 2008.

 

[Withnail]

Chelsea's 2nd string up front is Pedro, Pulisic, Batshuayi, Hudson Odoi. Its arguably better than our first choice!

I'm sick of hearing on here how it should be a given to beat teams like West Ham away from home with the players that we have. It's like people think it's still 2008.

They also have a very good midfield. If United had Kante alone things wouldn't be half as bad.

 

[Leftback99]

They also have a very good midfield. If United had Kante alone things wouldn't be half as bad.

A good midfield with players like Barkley and Loftus Cheek not yet playing. They'd walk into our starting line up.

People view our squad better because of De Geas name on paper. The thing is he has no effect on how we actually play.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Ole was playing fearless football because he knew he wasn't gonna get the job. And now he's got the job, he's playing to keep his job which comes back to fear of losing and conservative football.

Lots and lots of truth in this. When Ole took over, the players - for the first time, really - were completely relieved of any kind of pressure. They suddenly were given the sort of leeway to approach games like a kickabout and 'do their best', and coincidentally they shined in those conditions and raised their game. That suggests to me that our squad is full of mentally weak players who don't belong at a club that has pressure to succeed. Ole likewise, zero pressure on him until he was made permanent and there was talk that 'could United actually sneak into the top 4 after all??'

Suddenly, both Ole and the players go to shit. What a coincidence, eh?

I said all summer, now the pressure is on Ole will prove to be just as a conservative as previous managers because his job will now be questioned if he fails to get results.

There are 2 possibilities at play IMO:

1. Ole doesn't have any idea on how to coach
2. The player doesn't follow his instructions

If it's No. 1 then Ole could do the following :
- Hire a more technical coach to help him, poach one from top clubs if you have to.
- Make a simpler formation, a simple but well drilled formation is better than a complicated tiki taka

If it's No. 2 :
- reprimand the players, bench them, freeze them in reserves, kick some ruckus. He's at a point of nothing to lose at this moment. If carrot doesnt work, make sure you have a big enough stick
- Put pressure on them, air the culprits openly so that they're pressured to prove us wrong


And leave the board out of this, they have their flaws but saying "we won't achieve anything as long as we're not sold" is a cop out for all players, they believe the hype that it's not their fault, while it's their fault for not understanding football basics. Either they're too thick, or too ignorant. Blame the board if we can't keep up with City/Liverpool and finished top 4. If we can't beat Rochdale, Wolves, West Ham, and can't score more than 2 goals for so many games I blame the coaching team.

We need to face reality that the man we appoint is the wrong one. Took liverpool a few try to finally land klopp. No shame in keeping the boot and sack phase until we find one we can back. I doubt people really believe ole can turn into SAF. He's had 10+ years being a manager and I don't see improvement from his molde side. Suffice to say this is his level, he might learn 1 or 2 along the way but if we depend our future on "Ole's gotta be twice the manager he was at molde" than i think it's a stupid bet.

There is a #3 here.

'The Players are not good enough to carry out instructions'.

No amount of coaching, willpower or dedication is going to turn Lingard into Kevin De Bruyne.

No amount of coaching and willpower turns back time and makes Juan Mata 25yrs old again, allowing him to move like a young man.

No amount of coaching can magically make a prolific CF appear in a squad that doesn't have one.

It's a combination of all three. Ole's coaching is clearly very basic and dated; some of our players are clearly not arsed; some of our players are clearly not good enough.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Chelsea's 2nd string up front is Pedro, Pulisic, Batshuayi, Hudson Odoi. Its arguably better than our first choice!

I'm sick of hearing on here how it should be a given to beat teams like West Ham away from home with the players that we have. It's like people think it's still 2008.

What sort of madness is this? West Ham are a lower mid-table team and you don't expect us to fecking beat them? Jesus Christ.

 

[Sky1981]

Lots and lots of truth in this. When Ole took over, the players - for the first time, really - were completely relieved of any kind of pressure. They suddenly were given the sort of leeway to approach games like a kickabout and 'do their best', and coincidentally they shined in those conditions and raised their game. That suggests to me that our squad is full of mentally weak players who don't belong at a club that has pressure to succeed. Ole likewise, zero pressure on him until he was made permanent and there was talk that 'could United actually sneak into the top 4 after all??'

Suddenly, both Ole and the players go to shit. What a coincidence, eh?

I said all summer, now the pressure is on Ole will prove to be just as a conservative as previous managers because his job will now be questioned if he fails to get results.












There is a #3 here.

'The Players are not good enough to carry out instructions'.

No amount of coaching, willpower or dedication is going to turn Lingard into Kevin De Bruyne.

No amount of coaching and willpower turns back time and makes Juan Mata 25yrs old again, allowing him to move like a young man.

No amount of coaching can magically make a prolific CF appear in a squad that doesn't have one.

It's a combination of all three. Ole's coaching is clearly very basic and dated; some of our players are clearly not arsed; some of our players are clearly not good enough.

They've played for other teams. Other managers. Pogba won the world cup with france.

 

[Leftback99]

What sort of madness is this? West Ham are a lower mid-table team and you don't expect us to fecking beat them? Jesus Christ.

Do you honestly believe that man for man our line up was better than what West Ham had on Sunday?

They've spent £100m+ on their attack, we had Mata, Pereira, James and Rashford.

We're linked with Rice and Diop for £60m+ each. Cresswell vs Young? Ogbonna vs Lindelof?

What are you seeing that I'm not?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Resign

 

[Massive Spanner]

Do you honestly believe that man for man our line up was better than what West Ham had on Sunday?

They've spent £100m+ on their attack, we had Mata, Pereira, James and Rashford.

We're linked with Rice and Diop for £60m+ each. Cresswell vs Young? Ogbonna vs Lindelof?

What are you seeing that I'm not?

Yes, of course it was.

West Ham got smashed by City, lost to Oxford, drew with Brighton, lost to Newcastle. They're fecking shite.

And it was better than Southampton's when we played them, and Rochdale the other night.

Also I thought the whole point of a top manager was that he could get players playing beyond their means and beating teams they might not be stronger than on paper, no? Is that too much to ask these days?

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Lots and lots of truth in this. When Ole took over, the players - for the first time, really - were completely relieved of any kind of pressure. They suddenly were given the sort of leeway to approach games like a kickabout and 'do their best', and coincidentally they shined in those conditions and raised their game. That suggests to me that our squad is full of mentally weak players who don't belong at a club that has pressure to succeed. Ole likewise, zero pressure on him until he was made permanent and there was talk that 'could United actually sneak into the top 4 after all??'

Suddenly, both Ole and the players go to shit. What a coincidence, eh?

I said all summer, now the pressure is on Ole will prove to be just as a conservative as previous managers because his job will now be questioned if he fails to get results.












There is a #3 here.

'The Players are not good enough to carry out instructions'.

No amount of coaching, willpower or dedication is going to turn Lingard into Kevin De Bruyne.

No amount of coaching and willpower turns back time and makes Juan Mata 25yrs old again, allowing him to move like a young man.

No amount of coaching can magically make a prolific CF appear in a squad that doesn't have one.

It's a combination of all three. Ole's coaching is clearly very basic and dated; some of our players are clearly not arsed; some of our players are clearly not good enough.

Every team in football will have a gameplan or play a certain that suits their strengths or nullify the opponent.
Their are good players at United but no matter how good players are if they step on to the field without some sort of idea of how theyre going to play in the game they'll struggle to even keep the ball.

Ole has been manager for 10 months, for the last 20 games we have played we haven;t looked convincing any and we have continued to play looking like a team that doesn't know what they're supposed to be doing and most our goals are long shots, penalties or scrappy goals.

Messi and Ronaldo could be playing for us and i;m sure we would still struggle in games because its very clear to see Ole wasn't able to get this team playing good football. This is literally the way this team will continue to play until hes replaced.

To put into perspective when Pep arrived at City he had a team that played slow, physical attacking football. 2 weeks in his first preseason game he had them playing tika taka at full pace. Two weeks.

 

[Bestietom]

Change the system to 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. We must try something different if things are not working. 2 up front may be better than 1.

 

[Leftback99]

Yes, of course it was.

West Ham got smashed by City, lost to Oxford, drew with Brighton, lost to Newcastle. They're fecking shite.

And it was better than Southampton's when we played them, and Rochdale the other night.

Also I thought the whole point of a top manager was that he could get players playing beyond their means and beating teams they might not be stronger than on paper, no? Is that too much to ask these days?

Then you massively overrate how good our players are. I'd bet if the line ups were swapped you'd see it the other way round.

Why don't teams just throw ridiculous contracts at managers if they are so capable of getting teams to get results far better than the quality of the players. Instead of West Ham getting Haller for £40m in the summer they should have just offered any manager they wanted £500k a week.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Then you massively overrate how good our players are. I'd bet if the line ups were swapped you'd see it the other way round.

Why don't teams just throw ridiculous contracts at managers if they are so capable of getting teams to get results far better than the quality of the players. Instead of West Ham getting Haller for £40m in the summer they should have just offered any manager they wanted £500k a week.

See I think you massively underrate them which is where our difference of opinion is so this is pointless.

Your second paragraph is dumb. Quality of players and manager isn't mutually exclusive.

Also, Pellegrini is a way better manager than Ole, but that should go without saying.

 

[Leftback99]

See I think you massively underrate them which is where our difference of opinion is so this is pointless.

Your second paragraph is dumb. Quality of players and manager isn't mutually exclusive.

Also, Pellegrini is a way better manager than Ole, but that should go without saying.

Which bit of my player comparison did you disagree with on Sundays line ups?

 

[Bouncer001]

De Gea

Bissaka Jones Maguire Shaw

Lingard Matic Pogba James

Rashford Martial

Compact lines sitting a bit deeper, Matic and Pogba sitting in front of back four (Pogba taking on the "Scholes" role and support when necessary, Matic in the "Carrick" role holding/screening. Shaw/Bissaka to support rather than all out attack, hold shape at the back most importantly. Then allow freedom to front four, stay wide/cut inside etc. Play direct/counter attacking to the front four to get balls in behind. Fergie style with more emphasis on through balls than over the top, we dont have the aerial presence. There is no pointing messing about with the possession game, we are not good enough. Direct, fast, use our pace and get in behind.

Some transfer decisions have been terrible, with Herrera (this was an absolute shambles, unforgivable) and Lukaku we are a much stronger squad. Smalling is our best all round CB next to Maguire, he should have been kept over Jones. Our team could have been:

De Gea

Bissaka Smalling Maguire Shaw

Sanchez Herrera Pogba Martial

Lukaku Rashford

One more good centre half and that is not a bad team IMO............ stick in Alderweireld and Kane and you have a title challenging team.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Which bit of my player comparison did you disagree with on Sundays line ups?

We had a better GK, better defense, similar midfield and similar/slightly weaker because they're off form attack. We had the better team, imo. If you don't agree that's fine, I'm done.

 

[Leftback99]

We had a better GK, better defense, similar midfield and similar/slightly weaker because they're off form attack. We had the better team, imo. If you don't agree that's fine, I'm done.

Better keeper on paper. On past years form nothing in it, or worse. But what difference does a better goal keeper make to how the team plays anyway?
So slightly better defence, similar midfield and a worse attack and you think that's enough to make an away game in the PL easy?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Better keeper on paper. On past years form nothing in it, or worse. But what difference does a better goal keeper make to how the team plays anyway?
So slightly better defence, similar midfield and a worse attack and you think that's enough to make an away game in the PL easy?

I said better defense, not slightly. I also didn't say worse attack, I said a number of our attackers (Rashford) were off form. James has been better than Felipe this season.

Well going by your logic that makes us about even with them on the day? And yet they absolutely trampled us and were by FAR the better team so.. um.. what's the excuse?

 

[romufc]

Do you honestly believe that man for man our line up was better than what West Ham had on Sunday?

They've spent £100m+ on their attack, we had Mata, Pereira, James and Rashford.

We're linked with Rice and Diop for £60m+ each. Cresswell vs Young? Ogbonna vs Lindelof?

What are you seeing that I'm not?

Yes.

DDG > Fabianski
AWB > Fredricks
Maguire > Diop
Lindelof = Ogbonna
Young < Cresswell
Anderson < Perreira
James > Yarmelenko
McTominay = Rice
Matic = Fornals
Mata = Noble
Rashford > Haller

 

[Leftback99]

I said better defense, not slightly. I also didn't say worse attack, I said a number of our attackers (Rashford) were off form. James has been better than Felipe this season.

Well going by your logic that makes us about even with them on the day? And yet they absolutely trampled us and were by FAR the better team so.. um.. what's the excuse?

Home advantage for one.

Absoutely trampled us? They scored the one half chance they got and a free kick (which De Gea should have saved). Maguire and Mata had better chances than either of their goals.

Two mid table line ups playing out the type of mid table match I see every week.

 

[Eoin McMahon]

Better keeper on paper. On past years form nothing in it, or worse. But what difference does a better goal keeper make to how the team plays anyway?
So slightly better defence, similar midfield and a worse attack and you think that's enough to make an away game in the PL easy?

De Gea is on another level completely to Fabianski just remember form is temporary, class is permanent.

Would you believe that goalkeepers can be the matchwinner for a team and De Gea is a great example of that as he has won more points for us over the years than most strikers have. Worse attack ? Rashford worse than Haller? This Rashford hate is going too far Rashford has achieved more at the age of 21 than Haller ever will.

 

[passing-wind]

Do you honestly believe that man for man our line up was better than what West Ham had on Sunday?

They've spent £100m+ on their attack, we had Mata, Pereira, James and Rashford.

We're linked with Rice and Diop for £60m+ each. Cresswell vs Young? Ogbonna vs Lindelof?

What are you seeing that I'm not?

West Ham have a typical mid table team. They've also had a poorish record preceding our fixture. The problem is you can say the same about Palace and Rochdale. We just have an average manager so expecting average performances and results is more realistic.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He can retrain Dalot to be a super 30 goal a season striker.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Home advantage for one.

Absoutely trampled us? They scored the one half chance they got and a free kick (which De Gea should have saved). Maguire and Mata had better chances than either of their goals.

Two mid table line ups playing out the type of mid table match I see every week.

They were miles better than us.

Your last paragraph, as I said, I don't think we are a mid table team, I think we look worse than we are because we have a shit manager. You don't, I'm done with this now because it's pointless and we clearly won't agree on anything.

 

[Leftback99]

They were miles better than us.

Your last paragraph, as I said, I don't think we are a mid table team, I think we look worse than we are because we have a shit manager. You don't, I'm done with this now because it's pointless and we clearly won't agree on anything.

We're not going to agree but based on your arguments I'm surprised you've even convinced yourself we're better than 6th.

 

[manunited1919]

Here are some of the adjustments that should be made, at least until the next window opens up.

• Never start Matic, Lingard, or Mata again.
• Play Pereira centrally as 10.
• Give Gomes and Greenwood starts in premier league games.
• Chong only to play if we are well ahead or in some cup games.
• Play either Axel or Rojo instead of Lindelof.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Stop playing Pogba so deep as a midfield two. For the love of God this has been tried and tried and failed.

Play Fred. Yes he has his weaknesses but compared to the other options we have he is the best of the lot.

Play Dalot on the right. Again simply because we have no better options. Lingard and Mata should be ashamed that a young right back is better than them but he is.

Drop Rashford for a few games. He needs a rest and he needs to sort out his head. When he gets back play him on the left for park the bus teams. He will be fine as a striker for teams that push up as he will have space to run on to.
Martial should be our main striker. Apart from Greenwood who is too young he is the only one in our team who can finish.

Go back to the football that was promised. Ole is playing a totally different game to when he started. It was all free and gung ho. Fast attacking football. Now he’s playing like Mourinho for some reason. The two center mids are super deep and we are basically parking the bus and hoping for a goal on the counter. We did that at Old Trafford against Rochdale!
Its not just our players are sht- its the tactics. Everyone blamed Matic. And Mata for our slow tumescent football against west Ham but against Rochdale we had Fred, Pogba and Lingard. You can say what you want about them but they are not slow. So why the slow build up? Tactics.

Start protecting the youngsters. Yes they should get opportunities but at the moment we are expecting too much from them. Chong looks finished after a handful of games! The abuse he gets is ridiculous. He simply is not ready. Give him time. Send him on loan or something. Same as the other young players even Greenwood. Protect them. Bring them in slowly and find a functioning team before you through them in the deep end

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

They've played for other teams. Other managers. Pogba won the world cup with france.

Yeah, surrounded by world-class talent. Same when he was running the show at Juventus. We simply lack top class players and a good manager.

 

[DSG]

I like a 3-4-3 a hell of a lot better than I like a 3-5-2, but the problem is our FB's (wingbacks) don't offer enough going forward for it to be effective. They are more like classic FB's than the modern day "winger turned into a FB". They are good/great defensively, but their crossing leaves much to be desired so I don't think that formation would work with Shaw and AWB...

I agree with you, but for different reasons.

I actually think Shaw is okay in a 3-4-3, and is better on the ball than AWB. Dalot is probably a better fit in his spot in that formation.

But not ideal. I also think that the modern fullback is more a midfielder (man city, Bayern) than winger. They tend to pinch inside in those systems.

 

[Foxbatt]

I will play the same back four. But play Jones instead of Matic and Rojo on the left side of midfield with McTominay on the right. Push Pogba up to the top of the diamond. Play Martial and Rashford/ James up on top.
We will not be playing an attractive game but our midfield would be more compact and have more beef. Pogba closer to the opposite box means his chance of creating something is much greater. Also the opposing teams will have to mark him too.
Jone and Rojo would be given the job of not letting the opposition play and when we get the ball to get it Pogba and the front two as quickly as they can.
Players with limited ability should be asked to do jobs they can do. Asking them to do things they can't do is being stupid

 

[Ekeke]

He can get a clue and stop playing the more experienced and older players who are performing worse than the youngsters. Thats been a theme since Moyes was here and Januzaj was doing quite well but the older and experienced players around him werent doing well enough. Theres been periods with Young and Valencia and we still have that culture today with Mata and Lingard playing when their performances are inferior to midtable players.

 

[momo83]

Show some fecking anger instead of smiling every time.

I hate watching pre match press conferences because every YouTube thumbnail has Ole a dumb smile, even yjf post match after our defeat against West Ham had a thumbnail of him smiling.

 

[Roboc7]

He can’t do much, he’s not a top coach so he can’t Improve the players and it’s not like he’s leaving out a couple of players everyone thinks should be starting.

There will be a lot of games this season where the opposition team is as good or better than ours, Leicester and West Ham both has stronger teams, Arsenal will on Monday. The squad is weak he just has to hope he doesn’t get many injuries and that he can buy in January that’s about it.

 

[Kush]

What sort of madness is this? West Ham are a lower mid-table team and you don't expect us to fecking beat them? Jesus Christ.

Don't bother with the said poster, I tried and failed myself. He/she genuinely believes we are worse than likes of West Ham, Leicester and Everton so Ole would do an amazing job to get us into Top 6.

 

[dove]

Don't bother with the said poster, I tried and failed myself. He/she genuinely believes we are worse than likes of West Ham, Leicester and Everton so Ole would do an amazing job to get us into Top 6.

Many people believe that which is just madness. The lengths they will go to protect the manager is unbelievable, something is seriously wrong with our fanbase.