You'll still get relegated from the PL if you finish in the bottom 3
What damage does the Super League do to domestic leagues?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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I see no reason to believe this will be true. The ESL is only going to involve 18-25 fixtures per year. Even if they expanded the competition, its not like they're going to play 50-60 matches against the same teams every year. Playing exclusively in Europe makes no sense.
In addition, the domestic competitions are still hugely important revenue generators in terms of TV, matchday, and commercial. The sweet spot for these clubs is going to be playing both the domestic league and the ESL (probably withdrawing from or blowing off the domestic cups).
It'll turn into an NFL style thing. They'll get the players on their side by it being 20 teams, everyone plays everyone home and away, so you'll have fewer games to play overall, the domestic leagues will literally become irrelevant as the prize money will be tiny compared to the ESL, and there is no incentive to do anything as you'll be in the ESL no matter what and others won't be able to take part in it. You'll have a group of teams in literally a competition that the rest of the league can't touch no matter how good a season they have, another world (more than now) financially, and end up being like if you plucked the big 6 and put them in the championship for whatever reason. It will absolutely kill every domestic league, or at least cause a restructure that in every big league that continues without the team part of the ESL. The Champions League is of course dead, but the domestic leagues won't survive long (with those teams) either. Not a chance. It'll be a new English top division without the big 6. Spanish league without the big 3. Serie A without Milan/Inter/Juve, and so on.
Honestly, I don't think that makes sense for the big clubs at all. Why play 38 games in the ESL and none domestically when you can play 20 in the ESL and 38 domestically? They make a ton of money from domestic TV rights and a ton of matchday revenue as well and they like to be in multiple competitions because it offers more chance to win something, which is important to keeping and winning supporters. Finally, they would obviously be put under huge political pressure if they really did try to leave the domestic leagues altogether. There is legitimate political risk involved with that kind of decision.
I think people are overblowing many aspects of the possible change. The whole thing is a power struggle between greedy billionaires about how the European competitions will be run and who will be able to monetize them. Its not a substitute for domestic league football, its a substitute for the CL (and possibly the domestic cups).
None of the big teams will be kicked out. They will just consider the league as an inferior trophy and not the priority anymore. The priority going into the season will always be to do well in the Super League. The Premier League will be just a bonus + a way to prepare the players for the more important Super League.
Domestic cups will become a nuisance if they remain and all the big clubs will get themselves KOed from them by the first or second round at most. Ultimately they will probably get canceled completely. Who will want to play in Fa Cup or League Cup instead of the Super League? Doesn't make sense.
Basically the football will revolve around the Super League. It will be the main competition. The others will be inferior trophies in comparison and will just be considered glorified friendlies.
Anyone thinking anything else will happen is honestly just lying to himself.
Domestic cups will become a nuisance if they remain and all the big clubs will get themselves KOed from them by the first or second round at most. Ultimately they will probably get canceled completely. Who will want to play in Fa Cup or League Cup instead of the Super League? Doesn't make sense.
Basically the football will revolve around the Super League. It will be the main competition. The others will be inferior trophies in comparison and will just be considered glorified friendlies.
Anyone thinking anything else will happen is honestly just lying to himself.
I'm curious what damage it's going to do to the actual clubs themselves that are involved in this.
Would be more accurate to say that neither competition will matter at all to the owners of these teams.
The managers and players might care about winning one more than the other, but the owners are guaranteed their cash cows regardless, since the distribution of money is largely set before a ball has even been kicked and not based on success in the SL.
The Glazers new minimum expectations for the United manager: avoid relegation from the Prem, otherwise we dont give a feck, won't affect our income one jot how well you do.
They will probably solve this issue by increasing the money won the more you progress into the super league, to make the clubs interested in doing well. They will give all teams a kick start ton of money + more money the further you get into the competition. Well, anything else will just not make sense from their perspective really.
100% agree. Take this season as an example - you're telling me Arsenal can finish mid-table but qualify for the ESL, while Leicester can finish 3rd, and not? And it's all fine saying clubs can compete to qualify for one of the c.3-5 actual competitive places - but that's across multiple leagues, and there are already 6 English clubs in there - so why should Leicester qualify ahead of Lazio, or Ajax, or Lille, Leipzig or Dortmund - and that's assuming PSG and Bayern are added to the 12. Does this mean clubs in the Portuguese and Dutch leagues can't qualify for the ESL?
It's an absolutely awful proposal which devalues all club football in Europe
Exactly - this just secures their cash-cow and means they can spend less and earn more.
conversely. If you are a team doing poorly in he super league, wouldn’t you then look to concentrate on domestic competition so that you can win a trophy?
only one team can win the super league - the 19 other teams will still want silverware.
This doesn't change the fact that the league will be 2nd at best in priority. It will be no different than current state when you can't win the league so try to win a domestic cup just to salvage anything out of the season, it doesn't make domestic cups of any more value than the league. This will be the same : "oh boy, we are doing poorly in Super League, maybe try to win the PL or something, better than nothing eh?".
The top priority will always be the super league. The league will be degraded to the same level the current Fa Cup and EFL cups are : a bonus trophy and nothing more.
Needless to say, I am ready to bet the amount of money you will still get by "doing poorly in SL" will be far more than what the PL winner themselves will get.
But only one team can win the SL. That won’t satisfy 19 clubs’ fans. What’s the priority for City or PSG this season? It’s the CL, 100% - hasn’t stopped this high winning their domestic titles.
The statement from The Premier League is not exactly accurate when they say that all lower teams can dream to climb the league, and one day compete against the best, and that the super league will take away this dream.....because we are seeing more and more sugar-daddy owners enter the fray, meaning only one team can win the league in some places like PSG in France. Real Madrid and Barca and once in a blue moon Atletico are strictly the only teams in Spain who can win the league. Bayern are the only team in Germany who can win it. Juventus just won I think 9 in a row in Italy. In England it's going to be City for most seasons in the future apart from the odd miracle every 5 years from Liverpool/Chelsea or Utd. More in more the leagues of Europe are being won each year by the same one or two teams.
This is their statement "Fans of any club in England and across Europe can currently dream that their team may climb to the top and play against the best," said the statement. We believe that the concept of a European Super League would destroy this dream."
This is their statement "Fans of any club in England and across Europe can currently dream that their team may climb to the top and play against the best," said the statement. We believe that the concept of a European Super League would destroy this dream."
I never rated La Liga as a league alongside Bundesliga. It wont effect them at all.
Fans what fans? This entire super league stuff is just done for business. It's not done for sports or anything. It's done because they want more money than what UEFA is giving them that's all. No one cares about fans (who are still going to watch and bring revenue regardless of the competition and what their team will do anyway).
PL won't be on the same level of current CL in priority when the super league kicks on. It will be a tournament for losers, basically, teams who couldn't do shit in super league and want to salvage season by any trophy. Current CL isn't treated like that, Fa Cup and League Cups are.
you are just too emotional.
no one is claiming this is anything but greed. But the pl was formed due to money, so was the CL, and the subsequent revisions. Fans haven’t mattered to clubs and organising bodies for 30 years. I’m not saying that’s right, and this is not just aimed at you - but feck me, everyone has got on their moral high horse over the past 24 hours, and forgotten the greed and corruption that’s endemic across football to get us to this point.
however, fans will still watch this, and yes the domestic leagues will still matter
Why does everyone keep referring to the Big 6? Have Tottenham really done enough to merit the 'Big 4' being expanded. And if so, what have they done that other teams can't. They certainly haven't won anything.
What they've done is have some success in breaching the CL places, then used that to attract better places to make this a more regular occurrence. The extra funds generated from this relative success was used to build a fancy new stadium with extra capacity, which helps them generate extra revenue. This helps them attract better players, which helps them secure CL places more regularly, which helps generate more income, which helps attract better players....and so on and so on.
In other words, the relative success they've had has been done the right way. Now they're one of the few clubs trying to preserve this wealth at the expense of other clubs who are aiming to do the exact same thing as Tottenham.
Everton are looking to build a new stadium. West Ham are in a new stadium. Leicester are looking into the expansion of the King Power. They're all trying to build their clubs in the hope of generating extra income, attracting better players, securing CL places and making the so-called Big 6, the Big 7, Big 8, or Big 9.
Except the Big 6 wouldn't want that to happen. They want to close that door now before it becomes even more competitive and risks their finances. Tottenham are considered one of the big 6 because teams like us and Arsenal have fallen from our pedestals from a time it was considered the big 4. Now we've grouped together to try to protect our own interests and ensure falling below those standards doesn't really matter.
Hmm, honestly pretty much has nothing to do with what I said. You are the one who said it's for fans satisfaction that their team who can't win SL will want to win PL, even though you recognize that no one gives a shit about fans anyway (which is what I said by the way, who cares about fans satisfaction as long as they keep watching and bringing revenues? ).
Nothing in my post is emotional. You have a competition that gives you ton of money, extends along the course of the season and all your matches in it are against top teams. Meanwhile you have a PL, a pointless tournament in which if you don't win it there's no difference between finishing 2nd and 17th, and you will probably end up getting far less money by winning it than just reaching the QF in Super League.
Which competiton will have the priority? Pretty easy choice for these clubs. Money talk. No one gives a shit about fans and what satisfies them. If finishing QF in your Super League group means giving you more money than winning PL they will prioritize it. Comparison it to choosing between PL and CL is illogical, most big clubs nowadays consider both of similar priorities going into the season, they both want to do well in both. This won't be the case, the SL will take the cake, the PL will be 2nd priority at best.
No one said that PL and CL were formed for charity. However giving a permanent spot and ton of money for a club just because they are a good brand name even though they are shit kills the sport in general. Leicester have been finishing around 3rd-5th last 2 years while Arsenal have been out of CL for +4 years and languishing around 8th-10th but let's give Arsenal a permanent spot among the elites and 350m because they are a great brand name, who gives a shit about Leicester anyway? Meh, Arsenal sell more. Isn't this the reason behind choosing Arsenal? This takes the "money talks" to a whole new and simply unacceptable level.
Anyway, the thread is about how the super league will affect the domestic leagues. I just gave my opinion : they will become inferior tournaments, the top priority will always be to do well in the super league, while PL will just become a bonus + friendlies to prepare players for the SL. Domestic cups will probably get canceled completely few years later. The football will revolve around the SL, everything else will be inferior in comparison. That's my opinion, completely reasonable and no emotions involved. Feel free to feel otherwise.
Ya, the worst thing about this is that United are helping out foreign clubs. That's 100% the worst thing about this entire situation
.That's assuming those SL teams are still allowed to play in their respective leagues
This is probably silly and I always want the PL to remain as our main focus, but would a breakaway SC and PL without the big 6 actually allow teams like Leicester and co to grow exponentially? Or completely obliterate the PL.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw. Either this is all just a power move to negotiate better terms or it'll replace/transform the CL. The PL is too valuable for it to be broken.
I don't think any of the above will happen btw. Either this is all just a power move to negotiate better terms or it'll replace/transform the CL. The PL is too valuable for it to be broken.
My worry is there will be no incentive to stay competitive.
As a founding member we qualify automatically.
Our owners could just sit back, let our team go to pot and cash the cheques
As a founding member we qualify automatically.
Our owners could just sit back, let our team go to pot and cash the cheques
Imagine Spurs who haven't won the League since the 60s, getting smashed every week in this new competition but with no fear of relegation, and having a guranteed spot in this thing so no need to push on and try and qualify in the League? They''ll be deadweight in two competitions.
No chance of winning the league and no need to finish in the top 4. All of their games will be devoid of meaning, ruining the integrity of the league.
No chance of winning the league and no need to finish in the top 4. All of their games will be devoid of meaning, ruining the integrity of the league.
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It varies according to the league. The PL will no doubt suffer, but nothing compared to La Liga or Serie A where all the big tv money will be syphoned out. The gap between the big clubs there is much bigger than in the PL
It will affect Man Utd more than any other club in it
1) the money for joining - other clubs will invest it. Our owners will keep it
2) We no longer will invest enough to stay in the top 4. We will just invest enough to remain in the PL
1) the money for joining - other clubs will invest it. Our owners will keep it
2) We no longer will invest enough to stay in the top 4. We will just invest enough to remain in the PL
And clubs will fleece us more than before too since Utd would be a SL founding team
That’s exactly where the PL will end up as well. If the PL give in to the big 6 now, United et al will come knocking for bigger PL TV rights in future. The gulf between the big 6 and the rest of the league will be so big that the PL would just roll over. This is all about money, pure and simple.
Yeah this is the biggest issue. It's basically assured money for the Glazers without spending money on us too much to stay competitive.
And a well run club like City, whose owners don't care about money will just take advantage of this even more.
But this can't be a long term strategy. If we end up at the bottom every time in this new league, we can't expect to have the fan base we have, specially for the next generation of fans.
It will because they will just end up playing their best players in the week prioritizing the super league because there is so much money involved and then weaker teams at the weekend in the premier league. I hope they get kicked out of the EPL
The problem with
I was replying to the idea the Super league might damage domestic leagues. I was pointing out that the last time a new elite league was created (EPL) the lower league clubs still had fans, still retained attendances and still remained exciting leagues for their fans.
I really dont like the idea of this league but its creation wont hurt the other domestic leagues that much if at all. Its only a few teams at this point and they are a drop in the bucket in terms of volumes of clubs, fans and games that are played. If the league goes ahead it wont stop me watching other leagues and clubs. I currently follow Aberdeen, Torquay United, Wellington Phoenix and Man Utd. I also go to watch our local amateur league football here. That wont stop if the Super league happens but I probably wont watch United so much. It just seems like a boring league with limited competition at this point.
They've played more CL finals in recent years than any English team except Liverpool.
It makes the premier league meaningless if the “big “ 6 are guaranteed a spot in the super lge regardless of where they finish in the lge then what is the point ? No need to fight for top 4 anymore so premiership games have no importance unless you are in a relegation battle . It will become like the lge and fa cup “top” clubs will play weakened teams to preserve best players for super cup .
prem lge attendances will fall ( would you buy a season ticket to watch your team play 38 glorified friendlies ? ) .
Given the fixture pile up that we already have these teams will withdraw from lge cup and Fa cup finally killing these comps off and cutting off vital financial lifeline for the smaller clubs .
The LUHG movement became a farce with people losing focus on the Glazers to pour hate on everyone from Ole ,Maguire and numerous other players . Any protest must be focused and not become side tracked the fans of every club must protest because it effects all clubs ,
This must not be allowed to happen
prem lge attendances will fall ( would you buy a season ticket to watch your team play 38 glorified friendlies ? ) .
Given the fixture pile up that we already have these teams will withdraw from lge cup and Fa cup finally killing these comps off and cutting off vital financial lifeline for the smaller clubs .
The LUHG movement became a farce with people losing focus on the Glazers to pour hate on everyone from Ole ,Maguire and numerous other players . Any protest must be focused and not become side tracked the fans of every club must protest because it effects all clubs ,
This must not be allowed to happen
Tough call for Premier League but best option is to kick them out, whether they’d have balls who knows. Draft in Celtic and Rangers and make best of what you can.
Serie A and La Liga would probably just carry on as they are as playing field is already much more uneven than Premier League.
Serie A and La Liga would probably just carry on as they are as playing field is already much more uneven than Premier League.
If they do stay in the Premier League, where do they fit in all these extra games? I’m assuming it basically kills the league cup, and potentially the FA too?
It’s 18 games before the quarters instead of 8 right?
It’s 18 games before the quarters instead of 8 right?
Shhhh apparently this is all fine according to some posters. Forget competitiveness, forget merit.
Sure, they've done well in a knockout competition. I'm not denying they've had relative success, but they've still not won anything.
My point is that the relative success they've achieved was achieved via a route they (and 11 other clubs) are now trying to close off. Breaking into the elite, like Tottenham have somewhat done, is hard enough already. The chips are already heavily stacked against the likes of West Ham, Everton, Leicester etc. This move makes it nigh on impossible.
Tottenham, who, let's be honest, are still trying to establish themselves among Europe's elite, should be viewed by the clubs on the next rung on the ladder as the example.
Instead, Tottenham, having progressed to this stage of the club's development through the right competitive route, are now among the clubs trying to insulate themselves against that negative sides of that competition.
What have they done to be given some divine right to be a permanent fixture in the most lucrative club competition? Arsenal haven't graced the CL in 5 years. And not to mention our own disappointing performances since Fergie's retirement.
This takes the competition out of the sport.
What hurts the most is that the united players fought like hell and ran themselves into the ground to get to where we are now. Finally earned the spot in the CL. And now it was all for nothing. Could have been 15th in the league and still be playing a CL like tournament. Fecking disgrace.
They played more CL finals than Madrid too in recent years (depends on what you mean by recent years btw).
Bray wanderers tweeted again ( I wish I could share it ) that they have the same amount of premier league titles as Spurs. #Support local