Villareal had one good Chance and they scored because of lindelof. Thats why everybody is talking about him.
What do people see in Lindelof?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Yeah it is not alone with us. I have seen Boateng for Bayern get called shit. Hummels, Ramos, Pique etc. These are world cup and CL winners all of them. I feel as if you need to be Messi to not be called shit online these days after a poor game. Although I know there is Messi vs Ronaldo fans that would attack the other side too even though most agree they are amazing players both.
Just I do feel central defenders get target the most heavily from red cafe fans. I guess it is since we had Vida and Ferdinand the best defensive pair in the world at the time and some quality defenders before them too in Bruce, Staam etc. Even so Torres destroyed Vidic sometimes so it is not like he always had flawless games.
We've beaten the Lindelof is passive argument to death, so I'll try to take the opposite side.
His positioning is usually good, never plays attackers onside when rest of our defence has pushed up (AwB, Shaw, Maguire have had that honor a few times), and once the ball is on the ground and he's squared up to the attacker he doesn't let the attacker get past him (can't remember a striker ever beating him 1v1 after a long ball to the channel for example). His passing is also pretty good. That Lindelof --> Rashford ball got us a couple of goals. The set piece thing is a bit overstated, the goals we've conceded on set pieces can't just be put down to one player being shit in the air. Sides that are absolutely tiny in comparison don't concede as many as we do.
It'll be nice if we can coach him to be a bit more aggressive. Getting a new CB isn't as easy as people here think (see City / Chelsea / Liverpool's struggles in that department). Alternatively, I think it'd be really interesting to see a partnership of Bailly - Lindelof - Maguire - That'll allow Bailly to pull off his antics and take risks Lindelof doesn't have to deal with the aerial balls, so works for both. I think he could be quite good at being a sweeper / mopping up behind Maguire and Bailly.
His positioning is usually good, never plays attackers onside when rest of our defence has pushed up (AwB, Shaw, Maguire have had that honor a few times), and once the ball is on the ground and he's squared up to the attacker he doesn't let the attacker get past him (can't remember a striker ever beating him 1v1 after a long ball to the channel for example). His passing is also pretty good. That Lindelof --> Rashford ball got us a couple of goals. The set piece thing is a bit overstated, the goals we've conceded on set pieces can't just be put down to one player being shit in the air. Sides that are absolutely tiny in comparison don't concede as many as we do.
It'll be nice if we can coach him to be a bit more aggressive. Getting a new CB isn't as easy as people here think (see City / Chelsea / Liverpool's struggles in that department). Alternatively, I think it'd be really interesting to see a partnership of Bailly - Lindelof - Maguire - That'll allow Bailly to pull off his antics and take risks Lindelof doesn't have to deal with the aerial balls, so works for both. I think he could be quite good at being a sweeper / mopping up behind Maguire and Bailly.
They do and it's telling because Maguire got loads of flack too before his injury (during which time his reputation has grown massively).
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It’s quite new that people take this forensic view of every conceded goal and analyse it for days. Most goals conceded would have been avoided if a CB had done better. That’s the nature of the game. Many of the CBs that people drool over are just as full of mistakes as our CBs but people watch 1-2 matches and some YouTube highlights and think that represent the players.
It’s funny because he’s a better defender technically than Bailly, but at least Eric will put his life on the line at any moment while Lindelöf plays like he’s just trying to not be the one blamed for a goal. Complete coward which is a pretty terrible attribute to have as a central defender.
Yeah I think people have this view about past players. Like I feel people talk up old players a lot in that ooh he is not as good as player x etc. We can't buy back old players etc to compare, but it is not like the old players won every game and never made errors. Even us under our prime years often dropped silly points in easy games in the league. We won most games though, but often had to come from behind since we started games poorly.
Isn’t the bigger problem that we only scored 1 goal? And even that goal was lucky.
Yeah I think it is fair enough on both Maguire and Lindelöf to ask if we could have spent the money better. Although they are both certainly quality defenders.
As a partnership it is still probably the best one since Vidic and Ferdinand. Although I personally think Blind, Smalling was pretty good. Also I liked Evans Jones as a potential partnership, but Jones injuries and Evans in poor form never did see them play a run of games together. Bailly-Jones also worked under Mourinho which right now feels like a crazy combination given that both are so agressive.
I think hopefully we can buy a defender that works well with most of our defenders. Someone that can partner Maguire ideally and also play in 3 man defensive structure and maybe even play defensive midfield.
Almost 90% of posters are saying he is shit and the other 10%'s argument is that he needs an aerially, physically dominant centre back to organise and protect him 
The supporters or sympathisers of Lindelof, I'd imagine are the same ones who think Ole has done a good job and deserves more time.
The supporters or sympathisers of Lindelof, I'd imagine are the same ones who think Ole has done a good job and deserves more time.
You can't make mistake if you hide from your responsibility as a defender in the first place. There is difference between rarely making mistakes and hiding from your responsibility so you don't get blamed for it. There is player does one, and player does the other one.
The Villareal's goal was Lindelof's responsibility to go attacking the ball first and clear it. He didn't do it, he was slow to react. He's done it many times. I still remember he did the same thing to let the ball went past him vs Sevilla.
Maguire tends to commit on his defending and trying to cover things up, and there will be time that he will get caught for instance the nutmeg last year vs Stanislas (Bournemouth) when he was trying to help Bissaka. Maguire was crucified for that nutmeg while Lindelof got away with it. But what was Lindelof doing? He was ball watching instead of reading the situation and covering for Maguire. People call being nutmeged as a mistake, if Maguire didn't commit that defending action, the nutmeg won't happen and people won't recognise it as mistake but in reality you are hiding from your responsibility so you don't get blamed for it.
I'v never seen United CB as weak as Linda, even Jonny Evans was much stronger and i dont remember people rated his physicallity either. Beg a question what our fitness coach and defensive coaches been doing with Linda this past 4 years. Did they not ask him to hit the gym regularly? Did they not train him to head the ball? He's as skinny as the first time he arrived at the club, and how hard is it to judge the ball on the air and jump for it? It's pure laziness from the player and the coaching team which cost the club precious point of thropy time and time again (remember he was the main culprit for evilla's goal in EL semifinal last season?)
Not this nonsense again. Pep is a good coach and probably the best manager atm but he aint a miracle maker like Fergie or Klopp. He bought 2 CBs for 100 millions alone last summer. If Pep cant win the league with the likes of stones and laporte (who are superior CB), he definitely aint gonna win it with Linda either.
See there still some people who believe cooperating is a weakness.
We see the same discussions about Maguire, who people claim needs to be protected by a fast CB who can cover for him etc. It is not about baby sitting, it’s about a cooperating defence is better than a bunch of individualists.
Maybe someone else instead of Lindelof had stopped that goal. We’ll never know. But we know we have conceded several similar goals this season without Lindelof being the reason. The point is however that we tend to highlight these poor efforts and act as they don’t happen to every team in almost every match. Again, I’m sure our CBs had been crucified if they were as poor as Villareal’s at Cavanis goal.
We see the same discussions about Maguire, who people claim needs to be protected by a fast CB who can cover for him etc. It is not about baby sitting, it’s about a cooperating defence is better than a bunch of individualists.
I understand what you say a d there have been several occasions where Lindelof has been too passive. That’s his weakest side. Someone said he is better at marking space than a player and it is probably not far from the truth.
Maybe someone else instead of Lindelof had stopped that goal. We’ll never know. But we know we have conceded several similar goals this season without Lindelof being the reason. The point is however that we tend to highlight these poor efforts and act as they don’t happen to every team in almost every match. Again, I’m sure our CBs had been crucified if they were as poor as Villareal’s at Cavanis goal.
When centre back commit in defending or trying to cover things up to win the ball back, they can get caught and this is where centre back must cover to each other when they get caught. That's why Rio-Vidic pair is very well known with their telepathy. You think Rio & Vidic don't get caught and not ''baby sitting'' ??
I can understand if we conceded similar goals from midfielder and forward do the same thing but not centre back, that's their natural job to attack the ball first before the attacker and Lindelof does it so often aka habit. The Calvert Lewin 3-3 goal was also another one I remember Lindelof being ball watching, reacted slow and not going for the ball.
You make it sound like it's impossible to do better than Lindelof. Other defenders make mistakes, but when your game is geared around not making mistakes at the expense of actually defending proactively, then every mistake is worse. And doubly worse when you have to play two DMs to help you out 90 percent of the time.
All you are doing is just dropping the standard of what a decent centre back does.
Yes, that's my point (wasn't directed to you btw). That type of covering is cooperation between the CBs. Not baby sitting. It has worked well with Lindelof7MAguire and that's probably one reason why they have conceded so few goals in open play the last two seasons.
We have conceded several goal like this with many different players. Of course it is more ok for the midfielders to be weak in the air, to be worse at defedning etc, but facts is that many of our conceded set piece goals are not because of our CBs. We have problems with players moving in our penalty box. Either we lose track of them, or they come running free at high speed. It seems to be more the way we organise our defence during setpieces. I personally don't have the knowledge how to solve this, but pretty much every other team in the league seems to know how defend setopieces better than us.
Weakness.
I hardly come across a "fan" of his. The most you get around here is folks grasping at straws by talking about his "cerebral' approach, but even those people are being ironic somewhat and they know it.
He is weak and passive, but occasionally plays some nice passes forward. That is what I see.
Yes, I do remember him doing that once.. haven’t seen it in a long time.... a very long time
My greatest annoyance was earlier in the season when he inexplicably knee'd a player in the head, denying Tuanzebe a goal.
Not because of the goal being rightly ruled out, but because in not going to defend or attack the football, he showed more spring and aggression than his whole career at United.
He's just inexcusably weak, and you can't get away with that in our team. He'd probably be alright at City, but that doesn't really help us.
Not because of the goal being rightly ruled out, but because in not going to defend or attack the football, he showed more spring and aggression than his whole career at United.
He's just inexcusably weak, and you can't get away with that in our team. He'd probably be alright at City, but that doesn't really help us.
Hah, well, exactly.
At the current time? Yeah maybe 90%. But he's currently probably the best he's been at United and most well rounded certainly. Best season on the ball by far, not as weak in the air and heads the ball more often than his first 2 years or so.Almost 90% of posters are saying he is shit and the other 10%'s argument is that he needs an aerially, physically dominant centre back to organise and protect him
The supporters or sympathisers of Lindelof, I'd imagine are the same ones who think Ole has done a good job and deserves more time.
The annoying and mystifying part is that now 90% of posters see it yeah, but he was even worse before and it was more like 80% of posters thought he was really good 2 years ago
Lindelof was never that good. But the posters on here who refused to admit or see that made it 10 times more annoying of a problem.
We'll I don't rate Lindelof good enough for a title winning team, primarily, in those couple of occasions during a match where he is not physically strong enough in 1 to 1 situations, West Brom, Villa being a couple of those, and I believe that Ole deserves at least one more season, and I wouldn't give him a new contract yet, I would wait to see what happens during next season.Almost 90% of posters are saying he is shit and the other 10%'s argument is that he needs an aerially, physically dominant centre back to organise and protect him
The supporters or sympathisers of Lindelof, I'd imagine are the same ones who think Ole has done a good job and deserves more time.
You think Lindeloff had a good season? Horrible weak defender who gets outmuscled by average strikers and cannot mark at set pieces.
My preference would be to replace the two weakest starters in our team one is a CB and one is DM, of course I would love more strength in depth up front and on the right but at least our first choice options are excellent with either great experience or world class potential.
2nd best team for goals scored in the prem and 5 goals clear at that - 5th best goals conceded and within two of others like spurs and West ham. Pretty clear where our biggest problems lie.
Because we’ve had years of his shite
ld be 5th choice, he is so weak and mild. Quite how people saw him as an improvement over Smalling makes me wonder. Another dud purchased during the Maureen era. Bailly should not have got a renewal and we should be in the market for two CB this summer to rotate. Jones I have no hope of offloading.
Great so then Maguire would have 2 to babysit. Brilliant idea
Lindelof is not the biggest problem we face now. Is he a problem? Yes he is of course. Getting a new CB to replace him without getting players for other positions is not going to make the team any better.
We can set up more offensively when we dont have a team built around trying to make up for Lindelof's shortcomings. 1 DM instead of 2
Stop moving the goal posts and elevating Lindelof to something he is not.
Just because Lindelof and Maguire aren't a disaster as pair doesn't mean it's a strength. Fred and McT 'cooperate' as a midfield two, does that mean they are a strong combo? Nobody is talking about whether they can 'cooperate', they're highlighting the fact Lindelof is extremely average as an individual and doesn't bring enough to the table. Covering, marking space and not engaging is a not a 'strength' to praise him with, so stop making it out like he's the perfect partner for Maguire. He's a weakness because he doesn't hold his own or can step up to the plate; against Villareal, he didn't look remotely close to an above average defender or was a standout performer against 'comedy Bailly' or 'Spanish Lindelof'.
We want a fast centre back not to cover Maguire's weakness but because it compliments him. Lindelof is doing the bare minimum, whilst doing nothing to compliment him. In passing, aerials, tackling, leadership, duels, dealing with the dangermen etc, Maguire absolutely dominants Lindelof in every aspect. It's not an equal partnership of duties, ability or actual effectiveness; this is not 'cooperating'. It's barely tolerable.
This is not Rio and Vidic. It's more akin to Vidic dragging Evans/Brown/whoever and making the partnership greater than the sum of its part. And even then Evans and Brown were still superior defenders to Lindelof.
It's incredible the back peddling some people will go to normalise or defend this.
Your last line is probably what frustrates me most. Like the Mourinho/LVG/Rooney (in his last 18months) and even now the Ole defenders. Call a spade a spade.At the current time? Yeah maybe 90%. But he's currently probably the best he's been at United and most well rounded certainly. Best season on the ball by far, not as weak in the air and heads the ball more often than his first 2 years or so.
The annoying and mystifying part is that now 90% of posters see it yeah, but he was even worse before and it was more like 80% of posters thought he was really good 2 years ago
Lindelof was never that good. But the posters on here who refused to admit or see that made it 10 times more annoying of a problem.
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As someone wrote before, probably PL second best cb pair, especially if we look at the results.
Yes absolutely. Our attack should be good enough for us to win this kind of matches even if we concede 1 goal over 120 minutes. But this is the thread for those who hate Lindelof.
Maybe you missed last match against Villareal? Look at 106:30. One of our best passes this season.
It’s not that simple. We conceded 11 goals the first three matches, after that we improved more and more and were quite good defensively all the way until we secured top-4 where we rotated players and basically didn’t care too much.
We have scored plenty of goals as an average, but we have many matches where we haven’t scored at all or just scored one goal.The final is a good example where we only scored one goal in 120 minutes despite total domination.
Says a lot for maguire and 2 outstanding fullbacks to babysit a liability for a full season and come out with some credit
I see a lotto winner. Big wages, big club, plays regularly for number of years,cracking missus. Average in quality, probably on par with Ajer. Celtic is about his level. It's nice to see the underdog win big in life sometimes though. Gives us all hope. But enough is enough. You've had your fun with us now Victor
He's not a bad defender but not good enough for our ambitions. Let's be honest, he's playing at a club above his level.
Yet he is our 2nd best CB
It's not even that. The defensive side of our game and goals conceded is as much on the work ethic of McFred, Ole's coaching/tactics and our style of play than anyone one individual. To use our record to credit Lindelof, which he has massively benefited from just shows the desperation even the superfan cannot defend
Haha yes that’s really how it works at this level. Funnily, Lindelof has higher rating than Maguire from red cafe members this season. Not saying he’s better than Maguire but you need a reality check.