Lindelof and Maguire this season. Conceded goals in the PL:
10 games: 0 goals
10 games: 1 goal
4 games: 2 goals
2 games: 3 goals
10 games: 0 goals
10 games: 1 goal
4 games: 2 goals
2 games: 3 goals
What do people see in Lindelof?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
No I think you do. I know you’re a fellow countryman of the guy but come on, open your eyes. The guy is a liability.
even a blind man can see that maguire is twice the player
It’s strange. If he’s so useless as you say, how come we aren’t better without him? Especially since he has played pretty much every game against the top teams and been rested agaisnt lower table teams.
PL with Lindelof as CB:
1.0 goals conceded per game
Without him:
1.6 goals conceded per game
Some people don't understand that stats don't really tell the whole story. The one backing this average CB has only stats to back up their claims however they have no justification for how easily this guy gets bullied, how a puppy could jump higher than him, negligible threat on set pieces, ultra passive approach to everything, lets things pass by and leaves it for others to deal with.
How many games did we win since Maguire got injured? I think it's a grand total of 1 and he didn't play.
How many games did we win since Maguire got injured? I think it's a grand total of 1 and he didn't play.
Not sure why anybody would back him, even his own back has given up on him...
He gives his all and at times can have periods of decent form but FAR too often he’s weak and beaten, highlighted more and more in Harry’s absence.
He’s still two levels above Bailly though so there’s that.
He gives his all and at times can have periods of decent form but FAR too often he’s weak and beaten, highlighted more and more in Harry’s absence.
He’s still two levels above Bailly though so there’s that.
And that really tells us about the level of CBs not named Maguire at this club. This should be addressed asap.
You called it baby sitting to suit your argument mate. None ask Lindelof to baby sit Maguire.
And Lindelof is ball watching, slow to react and doesn’t cooperate enough and compliment to Maguire. Thus why we don’t hear them being called good partnership like how Rio-Vidic or Dias-Stones.
Where is this fact coming from and why is it relevant to Lindelof has habit of doesn’t attack the ball first and tends to let the ball went pass him?
Oh for sure. The drop off of quality behind Maguire is frightening tbh.
He has no competition. So like the old Shaw, he can suck at it as much as he wants. Because his replacements are super crap/injured or both.
I see an average defender who gets bullied easily. A back up player at best. I think everyone agrees we need an upgrade
There's only one elite defender and one important stat when it comes to Lindelof:
Complete annihilation. No bias at all.
Complete annihilation. No bias at all.
The stats is so obvious affected by the Spurs game with red card and just because we with 10 men conceded 6 goals vs spurs with Bailly and without Lindelof doesn’t make Lindelof being good enough here. The guy conceded 3 goals vs Palace and 2 goals vs Brighton but saved by 4-5 times hitting the post. He ain’t make any difference to that spurs game.
We will be better with his replacement next season. Fingers crossed
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I don't get how @A-man can defend Lindelof to the degree he does. Was he not around to see what a proper United cb is?There's only one elite defender and one important stat when it comes to Lindelof:
Complete annihilation. No bias at all.
He is Daley Blind version 2.0 but with worse passing and composure.
Do all the basic right but lack physicality and agrresion to be top CB in PL.
Do all the basic right but lack physicality and agrresion to be top CB in PL.
The thing with Lindelof is that he isn’t bad but he isn’t great.
He isn’t that Stam, Vidic, Rio type player that can ooze quality for a season.
He is more that Mikel Silvestre type player that usually played as a back up to better CBS.
Id be fine with him as our 3rd best CB in the squad for next season before potentially one day turning to our 4th best squad defender in the future.
He isn’t that Stam, Vidic, Rio type player that can ooze quality for a season.
He is more that Mikel Silvestre type player that usually played as a back up to better CBS.
Id be fine with him as our 3rd best CB in the squad for next season before potentially one day turning to our 4th best squad defender in the future.
It’s a fact that most people are aware of from just watching out games. You really haven’t noticed how we have conceded many goals from setpieces? What I described is the price of poor zonal marking. Lindelof
Second time you post stuff like this when you notice your arguments are too thin. Put me on ignore and you don’t need to read my posts. And don’t address posts to me if you already think I wrote too much. The most interesting in those stats is how you and 3 other haters can have so many posts in that thread.There's only one elite defender and one important stat when it comes to Lindelof:
Complete annihilation. No bias at all.
You really don’t need to over my head, it’s pretty rude.
Pretty much how I feel as well. At the moment we have few choices but we really need an upgrade. I think Lindelof is a great player for an ultra defensive team, like the Swedish national team, where 9-10 players clog their own box. But in a team that tries to control games he ends up in 1 on 1 situations too often which gets him in trouble more often than not.
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He should be a squad player at best. Benefica fans were astonished we paid what we did for him at the time which should have raised an immediate red flag. But then we are a soft touch in the transfer market.
Maguire is much better physical player but often makes silly decisions and never covers open space well.
Lindelof is not good enough but thinking Maguire is some super CB carrying this defense is silly.
Ball playing CBs.
He is carrying the CBs at the moment. Or at least he was till he was injured. I personally think we would have won the final in normal time had he been playing.
I feel the big question do you trust us to find a better player in the market? If we do that guy will probably cost Maguire money and the Glaziers will never get Grealish, Sancho, Kane etc if we spend big on a central defender.
Thus sticking with Lindelöf might be better move. I think buy one cheap young, but talented defender and hope he can be better. A bit like when we got Bailly. I liked that move even though you can say it failed.
Also given Matic age we need another defensive midfielder for sure. I like Fred and Mctominay, but we can need something different. A Carrick type player would be gold.
Thus sticking with Lindelöf might be better move. I think buy one cheap young, but talented defender and hope he can be better. A bit like when we got Bailly. I liked that move even though you can say it failed.
Also given Matic age we need another defensive midfielder for sure. I like Fred and Mctominay, but we can need something different. A Carrick type player would be gold.
You do know that is really bad for title contenders don't you? Especially as that not even a full season. Chelsea conceded 15 goals in the entire season of 2005-2006. This is 22 goals in 26 games....
That is title winning form. Some bad games like Everton fecked us and first game vs Palace.
Had we won those games maybe we would have challenged a bit longer.
Too many 0-0 draws though was our bigger problem than defensive form.
We need to replace Lindelof it’s pretty clear. Whether he costs 5 quid or 50m
They scored because of Shaw, bailly and then Lindelof - none of them defended the situation well. They are not a great unit as there is no leader. Add DdG's meekness to that and it is no surprise. Even with maguire in our centre we concede these types of goals too readily. What we need is better defensive coaching. Lindelof isn't top class but he isn't trash either - he is flawed though for sure when to comes to performing in the PL or vs physical strikers who are given leave to play that way.
And yet we didn't win the title... its not title winning form its CL entry winning form and that's what we got. Add in the other games Lindelöf played in which for some reason he omitted and it helps the picture further.
If you want to finish in top 4 he is ok.
You want to win trophies then he is not good enough.
You want to win trophies then he is not good enough.
We obviously need to upgrade him, but I'd rather upgrade DM before him (if we have funds to buy just 1 player from these two positions).
He obviously isnt some elite defender, but he's a decent reader of the game, passes well (which is necessary to play the style Ole wants), and he is good at guiding opposition players away from goal to less dangerous areas. He wont be the one making the tackle but one of the things I've notices is that he just closes down the path in which the opposition is expected to run forcing them to go wider - obviously doesn't always work out but that's not the worst strategy when you have AWB on the flank.
Having said that, we quite clearly need a better CB - someone better in the air from dead balls and someone who can impose himself against opposition strikers. One of the things working for him is that the 2 DMs are not really DMs, his competition is with Bailly and Tuanzebe and the fact that on his worse days he still produces a 4/10 performance unlike Bailly who is as capable of putting in a 2/10 performance as an 8/10 performance
He obviously isnt some elite defender, but he's a decent reader of the game, passes well (which is necessary to play the style Ole wants), and he is good at guiding opposition players away from goal to less dangerous areas. He wont be the one making the tackle but one of the things I've notices is that he just closes down the path in which the opposition is expected to run forcing them to go wider - obviously doesn't always work out but that's not the worst strategy when you have AWB on the flank.
Having said that, we quite clearly need a better CB - someone better in the air from dead balls and someone who can impose himself against opposition strikers. One of the things working for him is that the 2 DMs are not really DMs, his competition is with Bailly and Tuanzebe and the fact that on his worse days he still produces a 4/10 performance unlike Bailly who is as capable of putting in a 2/10 performance as an 8/10 performance
Lindelof “cheats” as a CB. He is the CB who drops off, the one who covers, the one who let’s his defensive partner go and do all of the aggressive pressing, all of the duels and attack all of the high balls. This isn’t necessarily a problem when he has Maguire next to him (who I believe is a very good CB and a very aggressive CB), however, without Maguire he gets found out time and time again because he is suddenly forced into doing some of the dirty work.
He’s not a “bad” player, he just isn’t strong enough, quick enough or aggressive enough in the air to be a top CB
He’s not a “bad” player, he just isn’t strong enough, quick enough or aggressive enough in the air to be a top CB
Agree with most of that. Definitely need a top class DM first, then a top class CB. He is a squad level player who is generally fit maybe if he was on the bench he would work on his weaknesses more if he really wants it. Get in the gym, learn how to win duels be tougher and defend set pieces, he could be useful. Losing 73 duels from 169 is embarrassing for a top tier Centre Back imho.
He looks more like a midfielder pressed into emergency cover than a real CB.
Ok as 4th choice but should never be a regular.
Ok as 4th choice but should never be a regular.
It's actually the opposite. You post conceded goals stat like it's a justification of how well Lindelof plays. You completely ignore our tactics of two defensively minded centre mids, completely ignoring the lock down capability of AWB/Shaw and generally our tumescent ability to break down teams meaning we don't stretch the game enough to leave our defence to be exposed. You've literally even admitted in this thread that Lindelof is someone, who marks space more than the attacker. In a team, where we usually dominate possession and don't leave many 1 vs 1 duels for most of our defence, what use is marking space? The few and far opportunities our opponents have, Lindelof is so concerned with not making a mistake, he drags our whole team back back pedalling to 'zonally' mark (which is bizarrely praised as intelligent like he's dealing with Messi on the wings in every encouter). That's why he's consistently called passive and weak, yet you will debate to death about the interpretations of the words and choose to give Lindelof benefit of the doubt in every single situation.
You try to take the moral high ground about 'Lindelof haters' when there's plenty of individual posters in this thread and the whole forum making comments that he's simply not good enough. You'll take the Caf rating and imply he's been rated by the Caf but ignore the hundreds of counter posts with detailed reasoning and analysis as 'haters'. A single digit rating is inferior to actual words no matter how much you want to spin it. I'm a hater as much as you are a fanboy.
You try to elevate and conflate Lindelof and Maguire 'cooperating' together to suggest the former is therefore of a good enough quality. I gave you the McFred example, I've given you the fact of our high goals scored tally and how being 2nd don't mean shit. Will you post 400+ times in Fred, McT and each of the attackers threads to say 'we've scored the xyz most goals and we've got 2nd place because of our midfield, therefore each of them are of a good enough standard'? Of course you won't because it's ludicrous to suggest that, the same as it is ludicrous to suggest Lindelof is some high performing player. In fact, you'll regularly defend Lindelof and his 'contribution' to our defensive record as if he is one of the major factors and lamblast our attack for not scoring enough. Lindelof would be proud of this deferring and deflection tactics.
We have conceded plenty of similar goals this season with Maguire in the team.
Our defence and Lindelöf should have done better on that attack surely, but our lack of creativity in the offence is the main reason we lost.
I do agree here though. I think he is useful as a squad option but not first 11
Mmm yeah and that's a defiency of our squad really. Bailly and Lindelof are too similar and ultimately it provides a dilemma as we need a stronger other defender, akin to Maguire.
I'd be more than happy with Lindelof, Maguire, Tuanzebe and other to choose from. That's a solid defence dependent on the type of opposition.
Any combination of Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe is never going to be strong enough, as good as all three are at various different things.
I am just saying defensivly it was a good enough form to challenge. Particular if you ignore the first 2-3 games when we did play like crap.
I feel the main reason we failed to win enough was all those 0-0 draws and game not scoring enough against weaker teams.
That 3-3 Everton game was crazy though and we should have won that one. That is the one time when conceding too many cost us after the start we had.
We should buy a central defender, but I rather spend big on attackers that can win us tight games.