What do this sqaud lack that the 98/99 & 07/08 squads had?

[Dve]

I think you should be a bit careful about judging today´s squad on one match, and say everything was better before. When you won the league in 98/99, in my memory, Bayern München were the dominant team. The teams with the highest top level today are maybe PSG, Barcelona and Manchester City (sure could be disputed). Manchester United have just a few weeks ago totally changed your style of playing. Barcelona have played the same way as long as I can remember.

What you need is a DOF, maybe, with a longer perspective for the club than any manager that comes and goes. Now you are stuck with players (some) not fitting into your playing style. And paid a lot for them.

 

[Jeppers7]

Dennis Irwin was world class and Beckham and Scholes weren't ? Irwin is massively overrated. He was a good player, steady. Could play either flank and get up and down. But he could be terrorised by fast tricky players if one v one. He was t a defensive beast. He was not of the level of Beckham or Scholes as a player. He wasn't better than Neville was for us.

 

[kidbob]

Having the stability and vision of SAF as manger for years prior. Also a hell of a lot of experience in Europe and some lost matches that were way more depressing than last night against teams we outplayed and were better on paper against.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Both teams benefitted from having the stability that Fergie gave both, being able to evolve the teams into what became these two great squads.

1999:

Complete balance to the squad -

a strong CM (I would kill for even a Nicky Butt right now)
equally lethal but contrasting threats from the wings.
The combination of strikers covered each other’s weaknesses - Cole missed a chance, Ole would finish first time, Teddy was a bit slow, York’s had pace to burn.....
A defence full of leaders


2008: I genuinely believe this was the best squad amassed in football

The team was full of leaders, all in different ways - Evra, Vidic, Rio, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney
Crazy balance in the midfield, Carrick, Hargreaves and Scholes is the textbook midfield 3
And then the front three, JESUS! I’ve got the season in reviews from these years and bloody hell I had no idea we had it so damn good at the time!!!

Then to back it up you had:

Brown back RB and CB - vastly underrated in his day in my book
Pique
Giggs was a back up a decent percentage of the time
Park Ji-Sung! Him and Herrera in a double pivot, imagine that!
Nani, yes inconsistent as never pinned down a position but was capable of pinging a shot to the top corner from 35yrd (I’d put him in a Coutinho bracket)
Anderson hadn’t yet decided he’d rather eat a burger off a hooker’s ass than play football

The 2008 squad should have dominated for at least a few years more than they did. I know selling Ronaldo and brining in Owen and Valencia killed it and three CL finals in four years is nothing to knock but they should have had more.

Plus, imagine a fit, non-injury prone Luis Saha with Rashford and Martial around him......

 

[wolvored]

We had terrific players all over the pitch in 99 and 08. We also had an abundance of talent on the benches as well. These were serial winners of trophies. Only De Gea could swap for Schmeichel or VDS and get virtually the same performance. You couldnt swap any other player from the current squad. We are light years from those squads and the frightening thing we are giving varying contracts to the likes of Smalling Rojo Young and Jones, who are clearly nowhere near the standard we need. De Gea aside you cant rely on one player to regularly put in a top class performance and that is why we are not challenging for the big trophies.

 

[Trophy Room]

Balls.

 

[Dante]

1. At least one aggressive CB who'd rather die than give up a header.

2. A midfield unit where ALL the players are capable of creating goals on a regular basis.

Simply put, a dangerous midfield and a watertight defence would make the attack look better.

I think people are getting distracted from the key problem because there's so much desperation to replace Lingard with a more hipster favourite.

Imo, the front 3 can score goals against anyone if only the midfield behind could provide the chances. And the defence needs better protection if only the midfield in front could provide that.

Our weakness against PSG was the same as the one against Tottenham: the midfield's inability to find an out-ball. That's what made it impossible to get up the pitch to give the attack a chance and the defence a breather.

It's criminal for a counter-attacking team like United to be so bad in the transition. If I had any say, I'd buy 2 first choice midfielders and 1 first choice defender. The frontline is fine.

 

[Full bodied red]

I remember Schmeichel saying in '99 that ' No matter what the score is and even if we're losing with five minutes to play, I never think for a minute that we're going to lose when I look at the ten players out there in front of me '

I'm fairly sure DDG has never thought like that.

 

[mariachi-19]

We're short a world class central striker, a right sided winger/midfielder, a centre back (Honestly think Lindleoff is going to be a giant) and a right sided wing back.

Then its a case of need to get very good support in reserve positions.

Seriously, Ji Sung Park was one of our backups and he could have been a started for alot of other clubs in England. Tremendous utility player.

 

[Jibbs]

This is a fantastic team with an amazing new manager who knows united in and out. The team just need a couple of seasons playing together to completely gel in and become world beaters. For that the core of the team, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Pogba, Lindelof, De Gea need to stay snd a couple of world class players added to the mix.

 

[NFM]

1. At least one aggressive CB who'd rather die than give up a header.

2. A midfield unit where ALL the players are capable of creating goals on a regular basis.

Simply put, a dangerous midfield and a watertight defence would make the attack look better.

I think people are getting distracted from the key problem because there's so much desperation to replace Lingard with a more hipster favourite.

Imo, the front 3 can score goals against anyone if only the midfield behind could provide the chances. And the defence needs better protection if only the midfield in front could provide that.

Our weakness against PSG was the same as the one against Tottenham: the midfield's inability to find an out-ball. That's what made it impossible to get up the pitch to give the attack a chance and the defence a breather.

It's criminal for a counter-attacking team like United to be so bad in the transition. If I had any say, I'd buy 2 first choice midfielders and 1 first choice defender. The frontline is fine.

Correct. Its United's midfield that is two players short of top class. Add one outstanding CD and the rest is about working/training together to become a better 'unit'.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

We have a first team that can compete, not necessarily good enough for major trophies but compete. The problem comes, as we saw yesterday, a few injuries and we’re fecked. Great teams and squads are built over years. Ole’s been here less than two months and inherited an under par squad, we have to be realistic with expectations

 

[Frank Grimes]

Too many decent but not of the required level to compete for the big prizes. Young, Shaw, Jones, Smalling, Herrera, Lingard and the jury is still out on whether Martial has the desire to match his obvious talent.

 

[Bojan11]

I think rather than compare this side with past UCL winning sides look at our previous sides that didn't win the UCL and look to how they bridged the gap

I felt the tie with PSG would go the way our tie with AC Milan did in 2007, I thought we'd get a victory at home full of heart, passion and desire but ultimately comfortably outclassed in the away leg. Unfortunately the outclassed part came in the home game this time around, injuries to Martial and Lingard didn't help our cause but ultimately our young attackers against the likes of Thiago and Alves was like boys against men much like the case was back in 07 with the likes of Rooney and Ronaldo against Cafu, Maldini and Nesta

Obviously this current side is no where near our 06/07 side either, it doesn't have the manager in place, it doesn't have the experience in the squad and only time will tell of the potential (Martial, Rahsford) will get close to your Rooney's and Ronaldo's

To be fair 06/07 side against Milan was unsettled by injuries to Rio and Vidic. Vidic was rushed back to the second leg. Without those two we had no chance.

Heinze was making a fool out of himself in that game. Kaka was made to look better than he was in that game with our defence all at sea.

If we had Vidic and Rio fully fit, I think we would have made it through.

 

[freeurmind]

Beckham was World Class in 99, as were the combination of Yorke and Cole together.

Scholes was World Class in 2008, so was Rooney.

Not considering Scholes, Rooney and Becks as World Class means I didn't consider this thread.

 

[JMack1234]

Apart from Sir Alex, who even I dont think could make this team reach the dizzy heights he was so accustomed to.

98/99

Goalkeeper
Nick Culkin
Peter Schmeichel - World Class
Raimond van der Gouw

Defender
Henning Berg
Wes Brown
Michael Clegg
John Curtis
Danny Higginbotham
Denis Irwin - World Class
Ronny Johnsen
David May
Gary Neville
Phil Neville
Jaap Stam - World Class

Midfielder
David Beckham
Jesper Blomqvist
Nicky Butt
Ryan Giggs- World Class
Jonathan Greening
Roy Keane - World Class
Paul Scholes
Michael Twiss
Ronnie Wallwork
Mark Wilson

Forward
Andy Cole
Teddy Sheringham
Ole Gunnar Solskjær
Dwight Yorke

07/08

Goalkeeper
Ben Foster
Tom Heaton
Tomasz Kuszczak
Edwin van der Sar - World Class

Defender
Wes Brown
Craig Cathcart
Patrice Evra - World Class
Rio Ferdinand - World Class
Gary Neville
John O'Shea
Gerard Pique
Mikael Silvestre
Nemanja Vidic - World Class

Midfielder
Anderson
Michael Carrick
Chris Eagles
Darren Fletcher
Darren Gibson
Ryan Giggs
Owen Hargreaves
Ji Sung Park
Paul Scholes

Forward
Cristiano Ronaldo - World Class
Nani
Wayne Rooney
Danny Welbeck
Louis Saha
Carlos Tevez
18/19

Goalkeeper
De Gea - World Class
Lee Grant
Sergio Romero

Defender
Eric Bailly
Matteo Darmian
Diogo Dalot
Phil Jones
Victor Lindelöf
Marcos Rojo
Luke Shaw
Chris Smalling
Antonio Valencia
Ashley Young

Midfielder
Ander Herrera
Andreas Pereira
Fred
Jesse Lingard
Juan Mata
Nemanja Matić
Scott McTominay
Paul Pogba - World Class

Forward
Tahith Chong
Romelu Lukaku
Anthony Martial
Marcus Rashford
Alexis Sánchez

Comparing the squads I think it is safe to say the biggest problem is our defence is nowhere near as solid as it was. We havent got any world class defender which was something SAF made essential since the signing of Stam, he knew it would elevate us to the elite European level and it something which we haven't had since he left. Our full backs are also an issue, the quality we have is not fit for our ambitions. No top class team is using a winger as a full back amd if they were they wouldn't be conpeting for top honours.

The quality of our midfield is also something which is worrying, although we have a world class midfielder in Pogba we do not have any support. In the past we had 3 or 4 central midfielders that were comfortable on the ball, happy to control the tempo and able to keep possesion. We are seriously lacking in this department. We have also had central midfielders who were great at retrieving possession and starting of moves instantly, we are very slow to get back at teams and fill in gaps for which we have been punished on numerous occasions this season.

Up top we probably only have one clinical finisher in Martial this season, we had 4 in 98/99 and 2/3 in 07/08, players who you would bank on scoring when staring down on goal in a one on one. We need to take chances when they come our way in big games especially. We have put smaller clubs to the sword in recent weeks but struggled to put Spurs away and couldnt really muster anything at all against PSG.

The world class players I chose were players who I believe would get into 80% of first teams in their competitions at the time.

We have had successful blueprint laid down before and if we follow it we can be successful again.

You don't think 2008 Rooney was world class?

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

How on earth were Scholes and Becks not world class? Scholes was world class in 99 and still in 2008.

 

[cyril C]

Don't panic on set piece, not afraid of pacy striker.

 

[nameischarles]

Those squads had quality players & depth plain and simple. You could rest a few players but still had quality coming in without weakening the team. Take out Cole or Yorke you still had Ole or Sheringham to step in and do the job, rest Beckham and Scholes you had Blomqvist & Nicky Butt to stand in but had Keane and Giggs still in etc etc

Right now it's hard to rest or rotate key players because the replacements coming in aren't up to scratch or won't give the same output.

 

[Devils11]

Our attacks are pretty limited, too dependent on Martial and Rashford. Mata and sanchez are probably waiting for their last pay cheque from China. And they could take lukaku with them.
Lastly, why we didn't try bid for Piatek, a natural goalscorer who cost AC Milan only $35m?

 

[Canagel]

The two squads had expert deliveries into the box. Threats from all kind of croses and set pieces. Both feets. This one cannot get one decent ball in if their lives depended on it.

 

[An Irish Red]

This is a fantastic team with an amazing new manager who knows united in and out. The team just need a couple of seasons playing together to completely gel in and become world beaters. For that the core of the team, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Pogba, Lindelof, De Gea need to stay snd a couple of world class players added to the mix.

It's not a fantastic team. How many of our players would start for the elite teams? very few. Lingard wouldn't get a game for the likes of City (never mind the Barca's of the world) and he's first choice here.

We're nowhere near where we need to be.

 

[Adnan]

I think you should be a bit careful about judging today´s squad on one match, and say everything was better before. When you won the league in 98/99, in my memory, Bayern München were the dominant team. The teams with the highest top level today are maybe PSG, Barcelona and Manchester City (sure could be disputed). Manchester United have just a few weeks ago totally changed your style of playing. Barcelona have played the same way as long as I can remember.

What you need is a DOF, maybe, with a longer perspective for the club than any manager that comes and goes. Now you are stuck with players (some) not fitting into your playing style. And paid a lot for them.

When we won the Champions League in 99 vs Bayern we had both our first choice midfielders missing. Bayern had the clear advantage with Scholes and Keane out but we still won with a weakened team. We also played them in the group stage the same season and were the better team. The away game at the Olimpic stadium in Munich ended 2-2 but United were clearly better and would've won, had it not been for a error from Schmeichel which gifted Elber a last minute equalizer.

 

[Schneckerl]

Beckham not World Class in 98/99? Harsh.
Also however you want to label Cole and Yorke they played fantastic that year.

In addition to that the top club teams are more stacked in general.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Saha, Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo and Nani were in my opinion better than anything we currently have. That's almost funny to think about it.

For all Nani's faults I'd happily take him over any winger we currently have, that's for sure. Circa. 2010-12 he was lethal. Likewise Valencia back then too, actually.

 

[Zlatan Ibrahomovic]

Apart from Sir Alex, who even I dont think could make this team reach the dizzy heights he was so accustomed to.

98/99

Goalkeeper
Nick Culkin
Peter Schmeichel - World Class
Raimond van der Gouw

Defender
Henning Berg
Wes Brown
Michael Clegg
John Curtis
Danny Higginbotham
Denis Irwin - World Class
Ronny Johnsen
David May
Gary Neville
Phil Neville
Jaap Stam - World Class

Midfielder
David Beckham World Class
Jesper Blomqvist
Nicky Butt
Ryan Giggs- World Class
Jonathan Greening
Roy Keane - World Class
Paul Scholes
Michael Twiss
Ronnie Wallwork
Mark Wilson

Forward
Andy Cole
Teddy Sheringham
Ole Gunnar Solskjær
Dwight Yorke

07/08

Goalkeeper
Ben Foster
Tom Heaton
Tomasz Kuszczak
Edwin van der Sar - World Class

Defender
Wes Brown
Craig Cathcart
Patrice Evra - World Class
Rio Ferdinand - World Class
Gary Neville
John O'Shea
Gerard Pique
Mikael Silvestre
Nemanja Vidic - World Class

Midfielder
Anderson
Michael Carrick
Chris Eagles
Darren Fletcher
Darren Gibson
Ryan Giggs World Class
Owen Hargreaves
Ji Sung Park
Paul Scholes World Class

Forward
Cristiano Ronaldo - World Class
Nani
Wayne Rooney World Class
Danny Welbeck
Louis Saha
Carlos Tevez World Class
18/19

Goalkeeper
De Gea - World Class
Lee Grant
Sergio Romero

Defender
Eric Bailly
Matteo Darmian
Diogo Dalot
Phil Jones
Victor Lindelöf
Marcos Rojo
Luke Shaw
Chris Smalling
Antonio Valencia
Ashley Young

Midfielder
Ander Herrera
Andreas Pereira
Fred
Jesse Lingard
Juan Mata
Nemanja Matić
Scott McTominay
Paul Pogba - World Class

Forward
Tahith Chong
Romelu Lukaku
Anthony Martial
Marcus Rashford
Alexis Sánchez

Nice OP. Although I believe you were way too harsch on especially the 08/09 squad. Rooney and Scholes were especially top tier players, with Giggs and Tevez being highly dependable top tier players as well.

 

[Devil81]

1999 World class players - Schmeichel, Stam, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham (All could change a game in a second or defend with the best I've ever seen)
2008 World class players - Van Der Saar, Rio Ferdinand, Vidic, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Evra (All mentioned were world class players, some more in influence than performance)
2019 World class players - De Gea & Pogba (Feels like these two are carrying everyone in my opinon)

That's exactly as I see it, the 99 and 2008 squads not only had more world class players they also had more world class experience. Scholes and Giggs influenced the 2008 in a way that guided the team to success, without them we wouldn't have won titles that year and we wouldn't have made the final (Scholes screamer).

You can't even compare this bunch of players to either squad, I'd even question De Gea's command of the defence in comparison to Schmeichel and Van Der Saar, he's certainly as good a shot stopper if not better but the goal Kimpendi scored wouldn't have happened with the Schmeichel and Van Der Saar.

And before anyone says Beckham wasn't world class, just watch a highlight real of his assists, goals and free kicks. He always came up trumps in the big games and he was a dedicated athelete and footballer.

 

[meamth]

My skin crawls when I saw Scholes name isn't recognized as world class in 2008.

What?

 

[Christie]

Let's not forget that the competition is now higher than it was before.

There aren't any Galactico teams back in those days, every team has their weaknesses in certain positions. Even the invincible Arsenal has some average players in their team.

Today, we have teams that have 2 world class players at every position. Galaticos everywhere thanks to state money. The old way of building teams cannot match up.

 

[Copa Mundial]

Midfield, midfield, midfield!

The only genuine quality we have in midfield is Pogba. Matic, Herrera, Lingard, Pereira, McTominay, Fred (lol) and Mata etc are simply not good enough.

We need to get back to having proper width in our team, with proper wide men, that can deliver a decent cross.

Far too much mediocrity in our Midfield imho!

 

[pacifictheme]

I’ll compare us now to the 08’ team as that was when I started supporting United.

De Gea >> Van Der Sar
Brown > Young
Vidic >>>> Bailly/Jones
Rio >> Lindelof
Evra >> Shaw
Matic - Carrick
Pogba > Scholes
Herrera - Hargreaves
Ronaldo >>>>>>> Lingard
Tevez > Rashford
Rooney >> Martial

Key: Amount of arrows = amount of tiers above, - means equal

As far as I can tell, our midfield is slightly better but we’re miles off in every department apart from the goalkeeper. Martial and Rashford do deserve a chance to develop and while I see Rashford surpassing Tevez, I can’t see Martial reaching that Rooney level top tier. I do hope he becomes world class though.

However, what we have to keep in mind is that the 08’ and 99’ squads were the best in the world and it will take time to reach that level. What we do need though is investment this summer on a right back, centre back, central midfielder and right winger that are fit for Manchester United Football Club, in which case I can see us challenging on all fronts.

I don't think pogba is better than scholes. Verratti bossed our midfield on tuesday night and thats exactly the sort of thing scholes did all the time. He wasn't as flashy as pogba, or gerrard, but he was better than both.

Don't get me wrong pogba is great but i think its easy to forget how good scholes was.

 

[grahamo]

Leaders. We lack leaders

 

[IrishRedDevil]

World class defenders.

 

[pierrethesnack]

In summary, the video highlights the difference between now and the past


@harms

While I do realize that more possession based football may be of "higher" quality, this kind of frenzied fun is soo much more entertaining to watch. Teams not being afraid to try risky stuff out of fear of the other team simply keeping the ball to slow things down.

 

[Sepukku]

We lack proper fullbacks.

 

[shabz]

Good responses people. Interesting to see what people think about the past squads and this one. My list isn't gospel and I am happy for everyone to make their own judgements. This is what makes the forum work so well, opinions and dialogue. It seems a leader and a better defence is what we are most lacking judging by the responses. Of course SAF is the biggest miss, hopefully we give Ole or whoever is next all the tools and time they need to build our next dynasty.

 

[SilentWitness]

Squad players that can come into the side and match the drive and determination of the first team. You'd never say that people like Brown, Park, O'Shea etc., were of the same quality as those who they replaced in the first team but when they did you didn't notice it in terms of results because they had the motivation to win like the rest of the team. Sign of how good SAF was though as they were never able to really follow that through into their next teams.

 

[rpg]

All our players except Pogba and De Gea are jokes compared to all previous teams first 11.
Lindelof who is a good player is not as good as Rio.
Gary Neville crossing is better than all of current right back/ wingers combined. A goal is more likely if Gary crossed once compared to Dalot, Young, Mata, Lukaku, Lingard all taking turns crossing.
Even Martial isnt at Nani standard who was a fringe player all those while.

 

[Ramos]

Start with the CB position.

Almost every CL winning side had a top 5 CB (at that moment in world football) playing for them. Even a smaller team like Porto did with Carvalho. The few sides that didn't at least had an experienced, commanding leader organizing the defense.

Seems crucial to me. None of the current United CB's are in the top 10 right now.

 

[promisedlanchiao]

I don't think pogba is better than scholes. Verratti bossed our midfield on tuesday night and thats exactly the sort of thing scholes did all the time. He wasn't as flashy as pogba, or gerrard, but he was better than both.

Don't get me wrong pogba is great but i think its easy to forget how good scholes was.

You make a good point but look at the rest of my choices. Capabilities of teammates do matter as well.