What happened to US football - Golden Generation

Berbaclass

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What a wild game. Berhalter is so clearly out of his depth and clearly had not gotten his players into the right mindset (that giveaway for the first Mexico goal was the right combination of being rattled and not being locked in). That being said, it was a good experience for the young guys and we have to cross our fingers and hope that either GB pulls his finger out or USSF finds a progressive coach who can get the most out of his best players (the fact that Dest and Pulisic were so absent from this game is criminal). CONCACAF WCQ should be quite the ride.
Absolutely. Pulisic did absolutely nothing aside from put a few decent corners in.
 

WI_Red

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I don't even care if they were penalties or not, if you take 10 minutes to analyze them, VAR should shut up and never intervene. let the game flow

yesterday game had zero flow to it. awful! i pity the fans of the concacaf region, medieval football
Welcome to CONCACAF. If you think last night was bad did you see the semifinal against Honduras? Honduras quite literally spent 9 minutes of the second half, 20%, laying on the ground or on a stretcher. THAT game was unwatchable.
 

Valencia's Left Foot

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Welcome to CONCACAF. If you think last night was bad did you see the semifinal against Honduras? Honduras quite literally spent 9 minutes of the second half, 20%, laying on the ground or on a stretcher. THAT game was unwatchable.
Every World Cup Qualifying cycle is an absolute circus. The concacaf refs are beyond incompetent, the fans are wheels off nuts, and the opposing players have no shame and will do anything to win. It's quite comical actually.
 

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I don't even care if they were penalties or not, if you take 10 minutes to analyze them, VAR should shut up and never intervene. let the game flow

yesterday game had zero flow to it. awful! i pity the fans of the concacaf region, medieval football
Last night’s game was amazing. Ironically because of everything except the football. The quality was horrendous and if I was a fan of either team, it would have been horrific. The circus running it all is disgraceful. But as a one off watch it was fantastic.
 

shamans

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Just want to see Scholes hit a volley.
Whatever happened this game happened but I do think this was s big win for belief in the mens team. Now just wrap up the gold cup and we'll mean business come 2022!
 

bosskeano

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What a wild game. Berhalter is so clearly out of his depth and clearly had not gotten his players into the right mindset (that giveaway for the first Mexico goal was the right combination of being rattled and not being locked in). That being said, it was a good experience for the young guys and we have to cross our fingers and hope that either GB pulls his finger out or USSF finds a progressive coach who can get the most out of his best players (the fact that Dest and Pulisic were so absent from this game is criminal). CONCACAF WCQ should be quite the ride.
he's not a bad manager and at least tries to play football which isn't always the case with the USMNT however he was out of his depth with Tata Martino. Tata caught him off guard by going to a 433 with man marking pressing principles and ditching the 343 he has been using since he took over Mexico.

Where it showed he was out of his depth was the lack of ability to change his tactics on the fly and get out of the 3412 so that Tim Ream and McKenzie weren't constantly put in 1v1 situations and isolated out wide. They just left the front 3 high up the pitch to press the 3 backs and you saw it paid off inside of two minutes. With that said, it was a string of shockingly poor decisions from McKenzie playing it square, to McKinnie not changing his angle so the pass would have been negative instead of square, to the main issue with Yedlin just standing and watching when he passed the ball back to McKenzie. The US had 5 guys around the ball to Mexico's 3 and completely fvked it up.

The game was typical US/Mexico with a lot of high drama, handbags and of course shit being thrown on the pitch and at players.
 

WI_Red

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Oh christ. Don't give Mike Dean any ideas please.
not even my favorite moment by that ref. The look he gives Tata here is what I suppose I would get if I asked Natalie Portman on a date.

 

Wing Attack Plan R

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Great to stuff Mexico and their horrible, homophobic, beer-throwing fans. This game was bananas. Mexico's high press worked great for the first 20 minutes then they gave up and grew tired well before the USA players. A lot of the US players just couldn't make space for themselves largely due to loose first touches and no commanding midfielder other than McKennie to relieve pressure. A lot of kick 'n' rush stuff. I think the foul on Pulisic was a pen but the one given to Mexico was not, although Horvath's save made it even better: Mexico can't cry that the ref didn't give them anything, he gifted them a pen.
 

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Great to stuff Mexico and their horrible, homophobic, beer-throwing fans. This game was bananas.
(1) The cry itself ('Puto') has many contexts. I won't enter into grammar and customs as other folks did when Cavani was accused of racism but in a broad sense, it's not homophobic for this matter. Nonetheless, I agree that it is very stupid to keep shouting it but knowing Mexican football culture, I know most fans won't ever change. I won't be surprised or ashamed if that cry one day costs the Mexican team a very harsh decision.

(2) Beer throwing is just as disgusting as it is. At least Americans have more than 30 years generating income out of these retarded fans, while others just go and watch painfully football matches from the Mexican side and waste their money.

(3) The match had many goals but it was sperpentous on football level. As Mexican, I'm worried that we couldn't beat a young, inexperienced, not fully developed but talented US team... If you cannot be the best side in CONCACAF then you have no opportunities against CONMEBOL and less against top UEFA teams. Worst, Mexico has no young talent except Lainez, who doesn't even play at Betis... But that's no news. Liga MX Clubs don't give a damn on developing young talent, it's easier for them to sign South American players than give a try on younger kids.

The USMNT didn't make it to 2018 WC but now have a huge boost with their golden generation. Mexico will more likely repeat it's never ending cycle of getting thrown out at Game 4.
 

WI_Red

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(1) The cry itself ('Puto') has many contexts. I won't enter into grammar and customs as other folks did when Cavani was accused of racism but in a broad sense, it's not homophobic for this matter. Nonetheless, I agree that it is very stupid to keep shouting it but knowing Mexican football culture, I know most fans won't ever change. I won't be surprised or ashamed if that cry one day costs the Mexican team a very harsh decision.

(2) Beer throwing is just as disgusting as it is. At least Americans have more than 30 years generating income out of these retarded fans, while others just go and watch painfully football matches from the Mexican side and waste their money.

(3) The match had many goals but it was sperpentous on football level. As Mexican, I'm worried that we couldn't beat a young, inexperienced, not fully developed but talented US team... If you cannot be the best side in CONCACAF then you have no opportunities against CONMEBOL and less against top UEFA teams. Worst, Mexico has no young talent except Lainez, who doesn't even play at Betis... But that's no news. Liga MX Clubs don't give a damn on developing young talent, it's easier for them to sign South American players than give a try on younger kids.

The USMNT didn't make it to 2018 WC but now have a huge boost with their golden generation. Mexico will more likely repeat it's never ending cycle of getting thrown out at Game 4.
Thanks for the input from the Mexican perspective. I may be one of the rare ones, but I love it when Mexico is good as it pushes the US to keep getting better. After years of getting absolutely owned (rightfully so) by Mexico I don't want our promising generation to be tested against a weakened Mexico side. Costa Rica seems to be on the downturn as well, but Canada is improving and Jamaica could be interesting if they bring in a bunch of dual nationals as it appears they are going to do. A strong CONCACAF is good for all teams.

Re: Liga MX, I would say we have the same issue here in the states with MLS. There seems to be little interest in developing players, and honestly I don't really blame the clubs since the leagues is structured in a way the reduces the ability to nurture and then sell those young starts. Reyna/Adams/Richards/Sargeant/etc. all started in MLS academies, but only Adams actually played any meaningful minutes in MLS.

As long as the US keeps hiring cowardly managers who insist on playing MLS players because they "trust" them I think Mexico will not have many problems keeping up with or beating the US. As an Atlanta United fan I was super jealous you got Tata instead of us. I think this US teams composition (at least in MF and attack) is perfect for his style.
 

sport2793

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(1) The cry itself ('Puto') has many contexts. I won't enter into grammar and customs as other folks did when Cavani was accused of racism but in a broad sense, it's not homophobic for this matter. Nonetheless, I agree that it is very stupid to keep shouting it but knowing Mexican football culture, I know most fans won't ever change. I won't be surprised or ashamed if that cry one day costs the Mexican team a very harsh decision.

(2) Beer throwing is just as disgusting as it is. At least Americans have more than 30 years generating income out of these retarded fans, while others just go and watch painfully football matches from the Mexican side and waste their money.

(3) The match had many goals but it was sperpentous on football level. As Mexican, I'm worried that we couldn't beat a young, inexperienced, not fully developed but talented US team... If you cannot be the best side in CONCACAF then you have no opportunities against CONMEBOL and less against top UEFA teams. Worst, Mexico has no young talent except Lainez, who doesn't even play at Betis... But that's no news. Liga MX Clubs don't give a damn on developing young talent, it's easier for them to sign South American players than give a try on younger kids.

The USMNT didn't make it to 2018 WC but now have a huge boost with their golden generation. Mexico will more likely repeat it's never ending cycle of getting thrown out at Game 4.
Ya the rivalry is going to swing massively towards the US now with the emerging talent gap. Once these players get more experienced I expect more comfortable wins moving forward.
 

WI_Red

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Ya the rivalry is going to swing massively towards the US now with the emerging talent gap. Once these players get more experienced I expect more comfortable wins moving forward.
Not if we don't figure out the backline. We were a Brooks injury away from a CB pairing of Ream and McKenzie.
 

bosskeano

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if there wasn't a US/Mexico rivalry, CONCACAF would basically be non-existent world wide as no one would care even if they barely do now. It's those rivalry games that have you watching even if you aren't fans of those national teams as you know something out of the norm is going to happen.

The US has developed some very good players and this is a really strong generation we have and we have a very strong generation coming through right now. We just can't produce quality CB's for the simple reason that they are going through the college system and most of the college coaches either play old school english football or they bring in foreign players. Not to go off on a tangent but until the college soccer game eliminates/reduces the number of foreign players on their roster, it will hold back development of these kids that don't go MLS or straight to Europe.
 

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if there wasn't a US/Mexico rivalry, CONCACAF would basically be non-existent world wide as no one would care even if they barely do now. It's those rivalry games that have you watching even if you aren't fans of those national teams as you know something out of the norm is going to happen.

The US has developed some very good players and this is a really strong generation we have and we have a very strong generation coming through right now. We just can't produce quality CB's for the simple reason that they are going through the college system and most of the college coaches either play old school english football or they bring in foreign players. Not to go off on a tangent but until the college soccer game eliminates/reduces the number of foreign players on their roster, it will hold back development of these kids that don't go MLS or straight to Europe.
Spot on with CONCACAF.

The college game is becoming less and less relevant in America. I only wish there were better regional second division leagues. I look at my home state of Florida and can only imagine we should have a better professional league in-state than some European countries, based on population alone.
 

bosskeano

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Spot on with CONCACAF.

The college game is becoming less and less relevant in America. I only wish there were better regional second division leagues. I look at my home state of Florida and can only imagine we should have a better professional league in-state than some European countries, based on population alone.
Agreed....College soccer is becoming less relevant at all level except D3 because there is no foreign limit on players. This impacts the national team, mls, usld2(the league you speak of in florida) as american kids don't see a pathway to being a professional and it's a massive mistake on our part in the country. The talent is there but the pathway is restricted and the investment isn't leveling out to other sports or at least making it enticing to earn a decent living. I'll say this though, it's a much better system we have now than when i came through the US National system back in the early to mid 90's.
 

WI_Red

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Spot on with CONCACAF.

The college game is becoming less and less relevant in America. I only wish there were better regional second division leagues. I look at my home state of Florida and can only imagine we should have a better professional league in-state than some European countries, based on population alone.
I would agree. If you look at the top talent in the pool I think very few of them went the college route. For the dual nationals (Mussah, Dest, Brooks, etc.) the reason is obvious. For the remaining players I think they have seen that their best path forward is through academies and eventually Europe. I do have 2 concers though:

1. Pay to play: As long as the route to notoriety is through elite youth club teams there will always be the issue of countless top talents slipping through. The insane costs of these teams means that many kids are simply priced out. Some(all??) of the MLS academies are free, but..........(see #2)
2. MLS Academies: Sadly it seems that very few MLS teams are taking their academies seriously. Dallas, SLC, Atlanta (somewhat) and both NY teams seem to be committed, but the rest seem to not give a crap. There is no way that the combined academies of both LA teams should be producing zero national team players while Dallas can give us McKennie, Reynolds, Richards, Pomykal, Ferreira, and soon Tessman and Pepi.
 

sport2793

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Not if we don't figure out the backline. We were a Brooks injury away from a CB pairing of Ream and McKenzie.
I think both Richards and McKenzie will develop into very good CBs so I'm not too worried. I'm talking about 2 to 3 years from now, not right this second. Ream will be in a retirement home by then.
 

mazhar13

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2. MLS Academies: Sadly it seems that very few MLS teams are taking their academies seriously. Dallas, SLC, Atlanta (somewhat) and both NY teams seem to be committed, but the rest seem to not give a crap. There is no way that the combined academies of both LA teams should be producing zero national team players while Dallas can give us McKennie, Reynolds, Richards, Pomykal, Ferreira, and soon Tessman and Pepi.
I'd also add RSL's academy into the list. They've produced many good, young players who've played for their team and moved onto better teams. Whether they're good enough for the national team remains to be seen, but they're producing better players than they did in the past.
 

WI_Red

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I'd also add RSL's academy into the list. They've produced many good, young players who've played for their team and moved onto better teams. Whether they're good enough for the national team remains to be seen, but they're producing better players than they did in the past.
They're in there, I just refuse to acknowledge the stupid R in the name so I called them SLC :wenger:
 
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From a southerners perspective... Soccer is still well down the totem pole in American sport.

Take for instance the high school sports season... Soccer is a spring sport. So is track and baseball. Football coaches are going to push their skill players to do track and baseball is a traditional pastime that most Americans know and understand.

There’s also a serious negative stereotype issue across America that soccer is “communist football” and “for sissies”.

Finally there’s a coaching problem. Most traditional American sports have plenty of people ready and willing to coach. Soccer still doesn’t yet. A lot of the youth coaches and even high school coaches aren’t really knowledgeable about the sport, which leads to poor development at the most crucial ages to produce a “golden generation”.
What?! Where does this come from :lol:

football is the most capitalist sport in the world :lol:
 

Valencia's Left Foot

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Thanks for the input from the Mexican perspective. I may be one of the rare ones, but I love it when Mexico is good as it pushes the US to keep getting better. After years of getting absolutely owned (rightfully so) by Mexico I don't want our promising generation to be tested against a weakened Mexico side. Costa Rica seems to be on the downturn as well, but Canada is improving and Jamaica could be interesting if they bring in a bunch of dual nationals as it appears they are going to do. A strong CONCACAF is good for all teams.

Re: Liga MX, I would say we have the same issue here in the states with MLS. There seems to be little interest in developing players, and honestly I don't really blame the clubs since the leagues is structured in a way the reduces the ability to nurture and then sell those young starts. Reyna/Adams/Richards/Sargeant/etc. all started in MLS academies, but only Adams actually played any meaningful minutes in MLS.

As long as the US keeps hiring cowardly managers who insist on playing MLS players because they "trust" them I think Mexico will not have many problems keeping up with or beating the US. As an Atlanta United fan I was super jealous you got Tata instead of us. I think this US teams composition (at least in MF and attack) is perfect for his style.
I could not care less if Mexico is good because even when they're supposedly down they make things incredibly difficult for us. I would gladly welcome the return to the Dos a Cero days.
 

WI_Red

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I could not care less if Mexico is good because even when they're supposedly down they make things incredibly difficult for us. I would gladly welcome the return to the Dos a Cero days.
i didn’t say I wanted to lose! I just said I want them good enough to push the national team as hard as possible.
 

WI_Red

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And here I was thinking that they were SKC and you made a typo... :wenger:
I thought about them, but the only 2 guys I can think of are City’s (still there??) EPB and (hopefully) Busio.
 

mazhar13

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I thought about them, but the only 2 guys I can think of are City’s (still there??) EPB and (hopefully) Busio.
There's also Daniel Salloi who's technically an academy graduate (despite him starting off at Hungary and also playing for Hungary's NT).
 

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1. Pay to play: As long as the route to notoriety is through elite youth club teams there will always be the issue of countless top talents slipping through. The insane costs of these teams means that many kids are simply priced out. Some(all??) of the MLS academies are free, but..........(see #2)
I saw a young American player talking about this in a YouTube video. I don’t really get it. Why are academies so expensive? In a lot of the world the problem is actually the opposite - talented players and their families bribed into signing to a club’s academy which may or may not be in the players long-term interest.
 

WI_Red

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I saw a young American player talking about this in a YouTube video. I don’t really get it. Why are academies so expensive? In a lot of the world the problem is actually the opposite - talented players and their families bribed into signing to a club’s academy which may or may not be in the players long-term interest.
I think the academies (for MLS teams) are free, at least I know Dallas is.

What I am referring to is club teams that participate in private leagues. These teams usually have no affiliation to professional teams and most of them have substantial registration fees, not to mention huge travel fees (most of the good teams travel all over the country). Some offer scholarships for low income players who are exceptionally talented, but that raises all kinds of control issues. What it comes down to is how insanely big this country is and how few profession academies there are. Imagine if all of Europe only hade 30 teams and it becomes easy to see how it would be easy to miss the next superstar living in a small town in Belgium. What has filled these gaps is the club team system where you are paying for your kid to get national exposure by playing in these tournaments.
 

mazhar13

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I think the academies (for MLS teams) are free, at least I know Dallas is.
From what I know, there are two academies that aren't free: DC United and Minnesota United. If the rest of MLS can have free academies (either at all levels or some), then those two clubs have no excuse to continue with pay-to-play academies.
 

WI_Red

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From what I know, there are two academies that aren't free: DC United and Minnesota United. If the rest of MLS can have free academies (either at all levels or some), then those two clubs have no excuse to continue with pay-to-play academies.
This is a pretty good writeup on what sets Dallas apart. I played in an over 30 league with a bunch of guys who coached in the Birmingham area (HS, college, club) and they raved about how good FCD was at scouting and communication.

The FC Dallas Academy is great - here's why - 3rd Degree
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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. Worst, Mexico has no young talent except Lainez, who doesn't even play at Betis...
Lainez is a real talent. He scared the shit out of our defenders every time he got the ball.

This beer-throwing isn't the worst I've seen from Mexico fans: ice, batteries, lighters, piss - all of these things were thrown at USA fans at previous matches. Whether or not "puta" is meant as homophobic the fans were already on notice that it was going to be interpreted that way, with a 3 tier plan to combat it. They had to deploy tier 1, stopping the match. I don't care that machismo or whatever in Mexican culture encourages this behavior: it has to stop.

For the record: I love Mexico, Mexicans, and Mexican football fans - just not when they play the USA.
 

mazhar13

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This is a pretty good writeup on what sets Dallas apart. I played in an over 30 league with a bunch of guys who coached in the Birmingham area (HS, college, club) and they raved about how good FCD was at scouting and communication.

The FC Dallas Academy is great - here's why - 3rd Degree
That was a pretty nice read. They pretty much follow what other good academies like those of Chelsea, City, and Barcelona have.

The fact that they keep testing the kids and ensuring that they're always on their toes does seem a bit rough on them, but as long as they aren't abused, that should be fine.
 

WI_Red

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That was a pretty nice read. They pretty much follow what other good academies like those of Chelsea, City, and Barcelona have.

The fact that they keep testing the kids and ensuring that they're always on their toes does seem a bit rough on them, but as long as they aren't abused, that should be fine.
the one thing I like that they do, and I am not sure this is unique, is that they train all the kids, even if they are not going to make it. They then help them get college scholarships. I think it’s why the B’ham area coaches respected them.
 

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I saw a young American player talking about this in a YouTube video. I don’t really get it. Why are academies so expensive? In a lot of the world the problem is actually the opposite - talented players and their families bribed into signing to a club’s academy which may or may not be in the players long-term interest.
It’s because soccer is viewed as just a money maker to the government. Other countries receive huge government funding and also huge kickbacks from their national FAs. There is nothing in USA or Canada at the top sending that money down. Canada’s FA claims to be too poor to schedule friendlies for the senior national team, let alone fund youth clubs.

My village in Ireland of about 200 people has a better pitch then I’ve ever seen in the Toronto area and it’s all free because they get funding from the GAA. Whereas as in Canada and the USA, public pitches are ways to gouge citizens for money. To hire a shit pitch that isn’t maintained costs thousands of dollars for a couple months in the summer. It’s highway robbery.

I did rough figures before for my local Canadian youth club and they easily bring in over $1m a year on player fees. There is absolutely no reason for them to need $1m a year to operate. Where is all the money going? feck knows.

Basically at the end of the day none of it is about the kids or about football. It’s how we can make some more money. The government, council, the scumbag scammers who run all the clubs, they’ve all got their arms in grabbing as much money as they can. It’s a joke
 

WI_Red

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It’s because soccer is viewed as just a money maker to the government. Other countries receive huge government funding and also huge kickbacks from their national FAs. There is nothing in USA or Canada at the top sending that money down. Canada’s FA claims to be too poor to schedule friendlies for the senior national team, let alone fund youth clubs.

and it’s all free because they get funding from the GAA. Whereas as in Canada and the USA, public pitches are ways to gouge citizens for money. To hire a shit pitch that isn’t maintained costs thousands of dollars for a couple months in the summer. It’s highway robbery.

I did rough figures before for my local Canadian youth club and they easily bring in over $1m a year on player fees. There is absolutely no reason for them to need $1m a year to operate. Where is all the money going? feck knows.

Basically at the end of the day none of it is about the kids or about football. It’s how we can make some more money. The government, council, the scumbag scammers who run all the clubs, they’ve all got their arms in grabbing as much money as they can. It’s a joke
That’s only because everything in Ireland is green and magical :D

basically everything you said tracks with what I have seen down in the States. The Sunday league I played in was pretty cheap, but it was run by the parks and rec department. One of the guys on my team coached a u-14 girls club team and they paid triple what we did for a season for each game. As a kid AYSO was pretty cheap, but club soccer was too expensive for my parents back in the day. I ended up switching to baseball year round as it was infinitely cheaper, even with all the extra equipment.
 

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We are singling out Mexico but if I recall correctly, didn't we need police with riot shields to take a corner at Costa Rica? I am curious to know if this happens all through Latin America with other teams or is it just us?
It happens several places in Latin America. Those Concacaf matches in Central American can get pretty hairy. I remember once seeing riot police protecting Mexican players every time they did a corner/throw in. I cannot remember if it was El Salvador or Honduras.

For the record, I think that Mexico fans in Mexico are better behaved than their brethren living in the US. That said they all really have to stop with the 'Puto' chant. I understand that the word itself has different meanings and connotations and that they are not actively targeting the individual, but in 2021 the world at large cannot interpret that word as anything but a homophobic insult. FIFA needs to bring in a big ban hammer to get them to stop.
 

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Spot on with CONCACAF.

The college game is becoming less and less relevant in America. I only wish there were better regional second division leagues. I look at my home state of Florida and can only imagine we should have a better professional league in-state than some European countries, based on population alone.
This is where USSF should do something along the way MLB and NHL have with their developmental systems, and the NBA to a lesser extent.