What has the fans' protest won us?

[Maciej]

Opposed to the other thread in the Forum.

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list (thanks to the first protest outside Old Trafford before Liverpool game on May 2). Apart from some media coverage (mainly becuase the game was supposed to be on Sky) and possible points deduction if this happens again... but what has the fans' protest actually won us?

Wny not boycott the Europa League final if this is the way people want to protest?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We took a stand. Protests are not done for quick short term fixes/gains. The two league matches have no correlation. Players need to be professional. One of those matches barely mattered.

 

[Roboc7]

It’s given a lot of people a new scapegoat and it’s one that means they can forget the limitations of the players and the manager.

If some fans still don’t understand the protests then there’s not much else to say.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It’s given a lot of people a new scapegoat and it’s one that means they can forget the limitations of the players and the manager.

If some fans still don’t understand the protests then there’s not much else to say.

Please say more about this great conspiracy to distract from on field matters. And how are you liking the earth's flatness today?

 

[Roboc7]

Please say more about this great conspiracy to distract from on field matters. And how are you liking the earth's flatness today?

What are you talking about there’s idiots all over the place talking about the protest costing us, someone even dumb enough to make a thread about it.

At least don’t look like an complete idiot if you want to be sarcastic. We lost a couple of games just have to deal it not blame protests.

 

[Crustanoid]

Opposed to the other thread in the Forum.

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list (thanks to the first protest outside Old Trafford before Liverpool game on May 2). Apart from some media coverage (mainly becuase the game was supposed to be on Sky) and possible points deduction if this happens again... but what has the fans' protest actually won us?

Wny not boycott the Europa League final if this is the way people want to protest?

The last two matches show that the club need to get these rancid cvnts out for good. We’re not going to challenge for anything and have our hands tied behind our backs until they feck off.

Also threads like thisare counterproductive to the fan movement and need to be eradicated.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

It’s given a lot of people a new scapegoat and it’s one that means they can forget the limitations of the players and the manager.

If some fans still don’t understand the protests then there’s not much else to say.

This seems so knee jerk. Ole has done as well as any other manager could have done with the current squad this season. It's been a shit week, but hardly surprising we've lost both those games.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

What are you talking about there’s idiots all over the place talking about the protest costing us, someone even dumb enough to make a thread about it.

At least don’t look like an idiot if you want to be sarcastic. We lost a couple of games just have to deal it not blame protests.

I agree. But the way you framed your post it sounded like the glazers are the scapegoat and we are shielding players/managers peformances using them.

As you were. I think blaming the protests is sad. Proud of the fans who took part

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The last two matches show that the club need to get these rancid cvnts out for good. We’re not going to challenge for anything and have our hands tied behind our backs until they feck off.

Also threads like thisare counterproductive to the fan movement and need to be eradicated.

Absolutely.

You know the biggest negative of the protesters? That we have fans on both sides of the fence. One set who genuinely bleed for the cause. The sky sports fan who snacks on his chips and goes "that's not the right way, I am above that" and allows the media to create two legitimate United fan voices instead of us being United (as much as can be)

 

[Roboc7]

This seems so knee jerk. Ole has done as well as any other manager could have done with the current squad this season. It's been a shit week, but hardly surprising we've lost both those games.

Contradicting yourself there. At the end of the day we didn’t lose because of fans, Ole and the players take responsibility and we all move on.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

This seems so knee jerk. Ole has done as well as any other manager could have done with the current squad this season. It's been a shit week, but hardly surprising we've lost both those games.

Should be a surprise that we lost both games. Heck losing any game at home should be a surprise. This is Manchester United.

 

[Desert Eagle]

This seems so knee jerk. Ole has done as well as any other manager could have done with the current squad this season. It's been a shit week, but hardly surprising we've lost both those games.

You know this is ignorant at best and dishonest at worst. No other manager could have got us out of the CL groups? No other manager could beat Leicester in the FA cup? Ole has done ok but to paint at as this incredible job nobody could have improved on is trolling.

 

[Stacks]

Contradicting yourself there. At the end of the day we didn’t lose because of fans, Ole and the players take responsibility and we all move on.

7 games in 20 days was a fixture run since 6th May and I don't blame fans, I blame the premier league. I am sure they could have reorganized it better

 

[LuisNaniencia]

You know this is ignorant at best and dishonest at worst. No other manager could have got us out of the CL groups? No other manager could beat Leicester in the FA cup? Ole has done ok but to paint at as this incredible job nobody could have improved on is trolling.

Another manager might have got us to the FA cup semi and the last 16 CL, but they might have been scrapping for 4th and out of Europa/CL.

Let's leave the ignorant shit alone, it's an opinion. Honest question to you, what would another manager have achieved with this squad?

 

[Godfather]

Contradicting yourself there. At the end of the day we didn’t lose because of fans, Ole and the players take responsibility and we all move on.

This.

Hats off to the fans protesting. Us playing like scared gimps in a derby has nothing to do with that.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Should be a surprise that we lost both games. Heck losing any game at home should be a surprise. This is Manchester United.

Yeah, in an ideal world. But you know as well as I, we aren't there yet.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Another manager might have got us to the FA cup semi and the last 16 CL, but they might have been scrapping for 4th and out of Europa/CL.

Let's leave the ignorant shit alone, it's an opinion. Honest question to you, what would another manager have achieved with this squad?

Look mate we don't need to go deep into hypothetical land. Like you've already admitted a manager could have done better or could have done worse. That's why I disagree completely with your statement no other manager could have got more out of this squad.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Look mate we don't need to go deep into hypothetical land. Like you've already admitted a manager could have done better or could have done worse. That's why I disagree completely with your statement no other manager could have got more out of this squad.

I can see how I said it now is confusing. My point was simply, finishing second and potentially winning the Europa league doesn't "show the limitations of the manager". In my opinion.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I can see how I said it now is confusing. My point was simply, finishing second and potentially winning the Europa league doesn't "show the limitations of the manager". In my opinion.

If you just take those two achievements in isolation then I agree with you. However using oles ten year managerial cv or even just his man utd cv then I'd argue there are plenty of limitations. And this is of course with our goals being consistently winning or challenging for the big trophies. Next season is put up or shut up time I think all united fans agree on that.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Contradicting yourself there. At the end of the day we didn’t lose because of fans, Ole and the players take responsibility and we all move on.

I mean you could say the protest caused the fixture pile upwhich means there was possibly no prep work, or prep work for pool was compromised due to Ole, managment and certain players needing to focus on the Tuesday game. Then only having 1 day to prep which would have normally been a recovery day.

As for the protests have to see what happens as it’s too early. If the Glazers start investing in to the club, training facilities, stadium repair and so on then that is a step in the right direction, but they need to do so much more. Personally I think they’ll sign someone shiny and slap a plaster on it and say they’ve done stuff and move on.

Can’t see them being forced to leave and no way do I see them giving fans a controlling vote. Even if many Boycott there will probably always be someone to fill their space so it is hard to see a clear path/fix.

I wish there was a Billionaire fan out there that could afford to buy the club and treat it right but alas I just don’t think that will happen and any new owner other than the Saudi will again view it as a buisness and money making tool.

 

[Maticmaker]

I've got to be honest and say I don't give a monkey's about who owns United, never have and never will. I have supported them all my life (75 this year) and seen/enjoyed some major events involving this club (some I've even managed to attend).

For those who cry "we want our club back" let me tell you the fans never owned the club or in truth really ever influenced the way it was run, even when there were some original MU shareholders around.
All that aside what disappoints me is that when the 'green and gold' saga started in earnest it was the one season in FIVE when we didn't win the PL, we won it three times on the trot, then the G&G started and that season 2010 we lost to Chelsea. Was it a distraction? Well I think it was because then we won it back the season after.

I don't particularly like that someone makes a lot of money out of the club, or that football in general is now regarded as part of the entertainment business, but that is how it is! I will still buy my season ticket, (too old for shirts), and turn up to support them (hip replacements and pacemaker allowing) even when, as the club did in the early 70's sink into Div 2. The only thing I would ask, is please don't cut your nose off to spite your face. By all means campaign responsibly for changes in the law, but don't wish the club harm and don't seek its demise, in the belief 'self harm' will achieve anything; your children and grand children will never forgive you if you deprive them of the experiences I have been fortunate to have.

 

[HerbT]

Should be a surprise that we lost both games. Heck losing any game at home should be a surprise. This is Manchester United.

It’s the first time in 7 years that you've been beaten at home by the dippers and the protests and revised fixtures didn’t help.
On the plus side, you’ve had a great season and you certainly didn’t need the points, but if this continues into next season then it could have negative consequences on the field.

I’m looking at the situation from a neutrals perspective (ok so I’m a City fan but I come on here as a football fan, not a rival), and I understand why the protests take place due to anger at the owners, but don’t understand what is expected as an outcome?

What confuses me is that you have split ownership, part owned by the Glazers majority holding, part owned by shareholders without voting rights and part owned by the banks.
If the Glazers sell up then they would be selling their majority stake in the club, not the club as a whole as the other (non-voting) shareholders and the banks would still effectively own a large chunk.

I can only suppose that you might expect the Glazers to sell their stake and the new majority stakeholder to buy out the portion of the club owned by the banks, in a philanthropic manner, so as to relieve the club of it’s debts?

That would mean that someone would need to stump up circa £3billion (or thereabouts?) and my thought is that any business would want an appropriate return on that and, with them having more of their money tied up in the club than the Glazers do, they’d want a larger return.
Ergo, if you were to be bought out by any company or financial institution they they ain’t charities and they’d have a duty to maximise their returns from their investment and you’d be effectively in the same low investment high dividend situation as with the Glazers.

The only alternative would be if you were bought out by a sovereign wealth fund or the like, and I know your views on those so that’s not a goer is it?
Also, I don’t think that could ever happen because SWF’s buy and invest to improve the value of an asset, and assets that are already at or about at the top of their value are of no interest (more chance of Newcastle being bought out by a wealthy Arab state fund than Utd).

So, while I can appreciate why you’re mostly unhappy with your owners, I’m baffled by what you actually expect to achieve from the protests.

Is it just a case of shaking an angry fist at the clouds or does anyone know what the intended outcome is and, if so, can you please clue me up?

In short; I think the question isn’t what has the fans protest achieved, it’s what does the fans protest want to achieve . . and is it actually achievable or is it ultimately a pointless and damaging exercise?

Thanks in advance for all reasonable responses :-)

 

[Rood]

@HerbT many fans believe they can force the Glazers to sell up by protesting, pressuring sponsors etc - I personally think that is unlikely but I support the protests as a part of lobbying for wider change in football

Have a read of this and in particular the 5 point plan of goals put forward by MUST - I think some of it is acheivable and the Glazers have indicated that they want to work towards these goals, only time will tell if its just talkj or a step toward actual change
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/manchester-united-fans-forum-letter-to-the-club

1. Willingly and openly engage and promote the government initiated fan-led review of football and use this as an opportunity to rebalance the current ownership structure in the favour of supporters and not approach this review defensively to fight for the status quo​

​

2. Appoint independent directors to the board whose sole purpose is to protect the interest of the club as a football club, not its shareholders and their focus on profits over results​

​

3. Work with the Manchester United Supporters Trust and supporters more broadly to put in place a share scheme that is accessible to all and that has shares with the same voting rights as those held by the Glazer family​

​

4. Commit to full consultation with season ticket holders on any significant changes to the future of our club, including the competitions we play in​

​

5. Provide a commitment by Joel Glazer that any costs incurred in relation to the creation of, or withdrawal from, the European Super League will be funded solely by the Glazer family and not by the club itself.​

 

[HerbT]

@HerbT many fans believe they can force the Glazers to sell up by protesting, pressuring sponsors etc - I personally think that is unlikely but I support the protests as a part of lobbying for wider change in football

Have a read of this and in particular the 5 point plan of goals put forward by MUST - I think some of it is acheivable and the Glazers have indicated that they want to work towards these goals, only time will tell if its just talkj or a step toward actual change
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/manchester-united-fans-forum-letter-to-the-club

1. Willingly and openly engage and promote the government initiated fan-led review of football and use this as an opportunity to rebalance the current ownership structure in the favour of supporters and not approach this review defensively to fight for the status quo​

​

2. Appoint independent directors to the board whose sole purpose is to protect the interest of the club as a football club, not its shareholders and their focus on profits over results​

​

3. Work with the Manchester United Supporters Trust and supporters more broadly to put in place a share scheme that is accessible to all and that has shares with the same voting rights as those held by the Glazer family​

​

4. Commit to full consultation with season ticket holders on any significant changes to the future of our club, including the competitions we play in​

​

5. Provide a commitment by Joel Glazer that any costs incurred in relation to the creation of, or withdrawal from, the European Super League will be funded solely by the Glazer family and not by the club itself.​

Thanks, that helps because I thought it was all ‘Glazers out’.

IMO Point 2 wouldn’t carry because company directors have a duty under the law to protect the interests of their shareholders.
Regards the rebalance of the structure, I would suppose that to be a 50+1 deal like the German’s have?
If so then that could be a concern because, as we’ve seen, that can concentrates power in a small number of clubs and hence Bayern winning the BL almost every year.
However, I can now understand the gist of the intended outcome of the protests and it makes so much more sense.
This should be better publicised because you don’t pick up on it by watching the news or reading the papers.

Thanks again btw, much appreciated!

 

[Blueman]

It’s the first time in 7 years that you've been beaten at home by the dippers and the protests and revised fixtures didn’t help.
On the plus side, you’ve had a great season and you certainly didn’t need the points, but if this continues into next season then it could have negative consequences on the field.

I’m looking at the situation from a neutrals perspective (ok so I’m a City fan but I come on here as a football fan, not a rival), and I understand why the protests take place due to anger at the owners, but don’t understand what is expected as an outcome?

What confuses me is that you have split ownership, part owned by the Glazers majority holding, part owned by shareholders without voting rights and part owned by the banks.
If the Glazers sell up then they would be selling their majority stake in the club, not the club as a whole as the other (non-voting) shareholders and the banks would still effectively own a large chunk.

I can only suppose that you might expect the Glazers to sell their stake and the new majority stakeholder to buy out the portion of the club owned by the banks, in a philanthropic manner, so as to relieve the club of it’s debts?

That would mean that someone would need to stump up circa £3billion (or thereabouts?) and my thought is that any business would want an appropriate return on that and, with them having more of their money tied up in the club than the Glazers do, they’d want a larger return.
Ergo, if you were to be bought out by any company or financial institution they they ain’t charities and they’d have a duty to maximise their returns from their investment and you’d be effectively in the same low investment high dividend situation as with the Glazers.

The only alternative would be if you were bought out by a sovereign wealth fund or the like, and I know your views on those so that’s not a goer is it?
Also, I don’t think that could ever happen because SWF’s buy and invest to improve the value of an asset, and assets that are already at or about at the top of their value are of no interest (more chance of Newcastle being bought out by a wealthy Arab state fund than Utd).

So, while I can appreciate why you’re mostly unhappy with your owners, I’m baffled by what you actually expect to achieve from the protests.

Is it just a case of shaking an angry fist at the clouds or does anyone know what the intended outcome is and, if so, can you please clue me up?

In short; I think the question isn’t what has the fans protest achieved, it’s what does the fans protest want to achieve . . and is it actually achievable or is it ultimately a pointless and damaging exercise?

Thanks in advance for all reasonable responses :-)

Same sentiment here tbh. I cannot for the life of me see a way out of it, except a "middle eastern" investment but thats totally off the cards it seems. But being bought out by yet another corporate american owner is not the way, totally wrong business model when the shit hits the fan.

Also, the more passion from the fans getting behind some sort of sale to someone else is going to cause the Glazers to dig their feet in (Mike Ashley style). Hitting their advertisers was the best thing I have seen, the Glazers need to lose money before they will care. But thats all my opinion from the outside

 

[Varun]

Opposed to the other thread in the Forum.

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list (thanks to the first protest outside Old Trafford before Liverpool game on May 2). Apart from some media coverage (mainly becuase the game was supposed to be on Sky) and possible points deduction if this happens again... but what has the fans' protest actually won us?

Wny not boycott the Europa League final if this is the way people want to protest?

Are you one of those who works out 2 days and complains your muscles aren't ripped but you have body ache to go with it?

 

[Glazers Out!]

Opposed to the other thread in the Forum.

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list (thanks to the first protest outside Old Trafford before Liverpool game on May 2). Apart from some media coverage (mainly becuase the game was supposed to be on Sky) and possible points deduction if this happens again... but what has the fans' protest actually won us?

Wny not boycott the Europa League final if this is the way people want to protest?

Until the Glazer's are sent packing back to America, nothing has been won.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Some fans really don’t understand this. 6 points is nothing. 16 years of them hoovering money out of the club.

“but muh afternoon entertainment”

our love for the club is not the same

 

[Glazers Out!]

Same sentiment here tbh. I cannot for the life of me see a way out of it, except a "middle eastern" investment but thats totally off the cards it seems. But being bought out by yet another corporate american owner is not the way, totally wrong business model when the shit hits the fan.

Also, the more passion from the fans getting behind some sort of sale to someone else is going to cause the Glazers to dig their feet in (Mike Ashley style). Hitting their advertisers was the best thing I have seen, the Glazers need to lose money before they will care. But thats all my opinion from the outside

Arod and his group of investors just purchased the NBA Minnesota Timberwolves yesterday for 1.5 bilion.

Why are the Glazer's trying to spin this narrative that nobody can afford United except the "Saudis", where there are plenty of teams bought by groups of investors all the time.

I think a team of Alex Fegurson, David Beckham, Conor McGregor, Pitbull, Norwegian Oil Fund and others could easily buy United at a fair market price established by the UK Government.

 

[Gandalf]

From a realistic perspective the fans protests probably are not going to result in meaningful change. The Glazers are fairly insulated from what is happening and with all of the money that they have made they are likely to be pretty sanguine about riding out the storm for a while so they can continue milking the money machine.

What might be accomplished is that they will see the benefits of making some investment back into the club in the form of renovations to the ground to address one complaint and they may also be inclined to make a splash in the transfer market this summer so that they can point to some shiny new toys as proof of their good intentions. This could mean that for one window only, instead of one marquee signing and lots of huffing and puffing there may actually be 2 or 3 meaningful transactions as the vast majority of supporters are easily placated by exciting new signings.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah, in an ideal world. But you know as well as I, we aren't there yet.

It's our job to make sure we get there. Won't happen on its own.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

The protests have won us little yet, but I back it 100 percent as the start of an effort to change football for the better. Discussion over exactly what the protest aims should be and what form the protests take is legitimate but there's no doubt in my mind that if fans sit quietly and do nothing the game will be moved further away from working class fans at an increasing pace.

 

[Ekeke]

It will only be negative until it works, if it works, whenever that might be.... If ever. Up till now just a massive distraction and headache for the players and staff, also giving another excuse for bad results

 

[lsd]

The last two matches show that the club need to get these rancid cvnts out for good. We’re not going to challenge for anything and have our hands tied behind our backs until they feck off.

Also threads like thisare counterproductive to the fan movement and need to be eradicated.

This is what annoys me. You are an example of the people who are doing these protests saying it is for the good of the club yet who will turn around and accept blood money from the Saudis because it means we can buy who were want and be another City

 

[Rood]

Thanks, that helps because I thought it was all ‘Glazers out’.

IMO Point 2 wouldn’t carry because company directors have a duty under the law to protect the interests of their shareholders.
Regards the rebalance of the structure, I would suppose that to be a 50+1 deal like the German’s have?
If so then that could be a concern because, as we’ve seen, that can concentrates power in a small number of clubs and hence Bayern winning the BL almost every year.
However, I can now understand the gist of the intended outcome of the protests and it makes so much more sense.
This should be better publicised because you don’t pick up on it by watching the news or reading the papers.

Thanks again btw, much appreciated!

Most focus is on 'Glazer Out' and the media is too lazy to dig deeper but the more likely change will come elsewhere

For fan representatives on boards, both Chelsea and Spurs have already committed to this - initially its more just to give an opinion and not official company directors

50+1 would be the dream but is unlikely as English football has gone too far the other way but even if fans could build a 5 or 10% stake it would be a step in the right direction

 

[redrobed]

It was about something much bigger than 2 games. We didn’t protest so that we could beat Leicester and Liverpool. We protested because of lack of investment in the playing squad and despite generating more income than any other club we don’t even match the spending of the likes of Villa and Everton.

 

[Tyrion]

Opposed to the other thread in the Forum.

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list (thanks to the first protest outside Old Trafford before Liverpool game on May 2). Apart from some media coverage (mainly becuase the game was supposed to be on Sky) and possible points deduction if this happens again... but what has the fans' protest actually won us?

Wny not boycott the Europa League final if this is the way people want to protest?

It's forced greater attention on the Glazers dealings and put more pressure on them to manage the club better.

Saying we lost the games because of our fixture list is blind guesswork. Our first team played Liverpool and we rested them against Leicester and could do so again. Liverpool can't. If anything, the Liverpool game being rescheduled should have increased our chances.

 

[hobbers]

We've lost two league games in a row, mainly becuase of our fixture list

Well. This is wrong for starters.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It has won is pride and can win much more if the fans turn it into a movement

 

[Tyrion]

@HerbT many fans believe they can force the Glazers to sell up by protesting, pressuring sponsors etc - I personally think that is unlikely but I support the protests as a part of lobbying for wider change in football

Have a read of this and in particular the 5 point plan of goals put forward by MUST - I think some of it is acheivable and the Glazers have indicated that they want to work towards these goals, only time will tell if its just talkj or a step toward actual change
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry/manchester-united-fans-forum-letter-to-the-club

1. Willingly and openly engage and promote the government initiated fan-led review of football and use this as an opportunity to rebalance the current ownership structure in the favour of supporters and not approach this review defensively to fight for the status quo​

​

2. Appoint independent directors to the board whose sole purpose is to protect the interest of the club as a football club, not its shareholders and their focus on profits over results​

​

3. Work with the Manchester United Supporters Trust and supporters more broadly to put in place a share scheme that is accessible to all and that has shares with the same voting rights as those held by the Glazer family​

​

4. Commit to full consultation with season ticket holders on any significant changes to the future of our club, including the competitions we play in​

​

5. Provide a commitment by Joel Glazer that any costs incurred in relation to the creation of, or withdrawal from, the European Super League will be funded solely by the Glazer family and not by the club itself.​

Those demands are FAR more reasonable than I'd assumed. I think if more people read that, they'd understand. I've heard a few journalists basically say "well it's the Glazers or the Saudis" as if it's a binary choice and the fans have no say in either situation.