What is a 'World-Class' footballer?

GifLord

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Current world 11 with world class players. So these are the lot. Maybe could pick someone better than Pavard and Henderson, but noone obvious that have won things recently. Probably Goretzka for Henderson.

Neuer
Pavard Ramos Marquinhos Davies
Kimmich Henderson
De Bruyne
Ronaldo Lewandowski Neymar
Where's the white text? :confused:
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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World class players are great players. All that meeting criteria stuff is nonsense. If you've watched football long enough you start to get the feel for what's a great player and what's a very good player.

Those that limit it numerically don't make sense. Sometimes there's an abundance world wide in a particular position while there's a shortage in the other. We aren't going to go around labelling players world class due to a dearth of talent in a position.
Agree with this. No need to complicate things further.
 

SER19

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For me the simplest terms would be any player who is likely to start in every team in the world. No need for hypotheticals like saying striker x can't be world class as bayern have Lewandowski so striker x wouldn't start there.

If a player can be reasonably considered good enough to likely start for any team, then he's world class.

At United, I think Bruno would start at any club. Would excel at Liverpool to barca to juventus

De gea has probably slipped a tier in recent years. Rashford potential to get there.

I think that simple test can be applied to most players fairly well and if you're debating it probably gives an idea of where the player stands
 

Paul_Scholes18

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Where's the white text? :confused:
Well you disagree due to Henderson, but he has been very good. There is Noone obvious. Maybe Fred, Tilemans could be mentioned or Gundogan. The Real and Barca mids have been poor etc.
Goretzka probably deserve to be picked, but did not want to make it Bayern 11 just.
 

Renegade

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Current world 11 with world class players. So these are the lot. Maybe could pick someone better than Pavard and Henderson, but noone obvious that have won things recently. Probably Goretzka for Henderson.

Neuer
Pavard Ramos Marquinhos Davies
Kimmich Henderson
De Bruyne
Ronaldo Lewandowski Neymar
Henderson isn’t even the best CM at his club let alone the world.
 

paulscholes18

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It’s a term that is used too much, should only be used for a player who could get into any team in the world.
 

Raees

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@Raees Perhaps the challenge is to boil down a definition to a couple of lines. Is it simply about a player who can be relied upon to perform at the highest level?


If we say this is 2000-2003, I would take out Del Piero (never world class after his knee injury in 1998 IMO), Adriano, Zlatan and Eto'o (all of whom didn't hit their stride until the middle of the decade). Any later than 2003 and I would take out Owen, Ronaldo and Raul from the mix. So maybe 6 out of that list? Cases too for Batistuta up to about 2001 and then Roy Makaay shortly after. Of course arguably that's two positions - support strikers or roaming forwards like Henry or Raul, and classic no9s like RVN and Owen.

But yes I agree that a maximum number in any position is too restrictive. A 23-man squad to face Mars as Pete used to say gives you a little more flexibility to take account of concentrations of talent in different positions, without lowering the bar too much.
In an ideal world yes that would be great but there are a lot of players who wouldn’t let you down on the big stage but you still wouldn’t call them world class.

Take Park Ji Sung or Darren Fletcher - reliable in big games but world class? Even Henderson has a decent big match record and pretty reliable.

Therefore I think a nuanced definition is the key even though it is a laborious process to at least offer some type of parameters to what is at the end of the day still a rather subjective discussion. Would be nice to see more people at least try and use more objective criteria even if it’s not perfect.
 

Red Pumpkin

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You could probably use Fifa 10-21 ratings as an yard stick (or this might actually be generational talents/elite, a notch above World Class). If you want to distinguish between WC and GT you might say 84-86 for wing backs is WC and 87+ is GT, 87-89 is WC for GK and 90+ is GT.

Each players best rating, most had longevity and some where one-two season wonders. There might be several players in one position that are rated as world class at a particular moment of time and there might be none.

GK - Neuer (92), Oblak (91), De Gea (91), Ter Stegen (90), Allison (90), Casillas (90)

CB -

LB/RB - Ramos (90), Maicon (89), Lahm (88), Dani Alves (88), Marcelo (88), Kimmich (88*cdm), Alba 87, TAA 87, Robertson 87

CDM/CM -

COM -

LW -

RW -

CF -
 

Zen86

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‘World class’ is just a throwaway comment for a very, very good player. It’s pretty meaningless as a term.
 

King7Eric

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Not according to my model.

But let's throw, say, Maier and Zoff into the mix:

Two squads of the best available players in the world - World Cup style - at a given point in time.

Well? If all the above are available at their peak - then Cech doesn't make it. Simple enough. He was very good, but happened to compete - at the same point in time - with at least six players who were better. But if just one of the others happened to be a bit past their prime - then, presto, prime Cech would probably/arguably make the cut.

Extremely unlikely scenario - but there you go. In theory, a player might be very good without ever being "world class" at any point during his career.

Point being that "world class" (if the term is to have any meaning) has to refer to the here-and-now to a great extent.
That makes no sense. If I take a subset of all GKs who have played over the last century or whatever, and it so happens the top 10 of those happened to play at the same time, then 5 of those wouldn't be labelled world class? So they would be top 10 of all time but not world class when they were playing?

So if Puskas, CR7, Di Stefano, Messi, Cryuff, Pele and Maradona were all playing at the same time then a couple of them wouldn't be labelled world class?
 

tomaldinho1

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For me it’s simply if they’re genuinely in the debate for best in their position - usually that list will be around 5 players or less.
For example No9 : Lewa, Kane, CR7? Haaland? For me this is realistically between Lewa and Kane.

Aguero, Suárez, Ibra, Cavani, Lukaku, Benzema have either dropped out due to age or aren’t quite at the level of the others. I’d probably put Vardy in that bracket in fairness as well.
 

KennyBurner

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Perform at high level consistently. I don't like how "will he make World 11", "Will he make world 11 squad to make on Mars 11" definitions.
Also dont like it because those lists are usually political or biased. Consistency and talent is usually the common denominator in every player deemed worldclass.
 

KennyBurner

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For me it’s simply if they’re genuinely in the debate for best in their position - usually that list will be around 5 players or less.
For example No9 : Lewa, Kane, CR7? Haaland? For me this is realistically between Lewa and Kane.

Aguero, Suárez, Ibra, Cavani, Lukaku, Benzema have either dropped out due to age or aren’t quite at the level of the others. I’d probably put Vardy in that bracket in fairness as well.
Vardy and lukaku? Dont kill me today. When has anyone ever thought of those two as starting for any European elite. They can both be effective but consistency(lukaku) and talent(vardy) is missing.
 

tenpoless

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If you see a player constantly carrying his team that should be a good indicator. Chances are he's one of the best at the position.

If a player is in the top 5 best then he's world class to me. Unless if for some reason the position is in shortage of very good players that even making it to the top 5 doesn't mean anything.
 

lysglimt

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Can it really be limited to just those numbers though?

For example if Cech, Kahn, Schmeichel, Neuer and Yashin were all the same era does that mean two of them wouldn't be world class?
In a way I kind of agree that it would - if too many are of the same level, it's not really a great achievement. In order for it to be world-class, you almost need to stand out. If we take Ronaldo/Messi as an example - clearly they have a set a standard which makes it almost impossible for other strikers to be world-class. But if they had both retired last summer - I would consider Lewandowski to be world-class - now I almost consider him world-class
 

11101

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Somebody who could get into any team in the world, so probably top 2 or 3 in their position.

Theres also a difference between players like Giggs who did it for near 20 years, and one or two season wonders.
 

Polar

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For me the simplest terms would be any player who is likely to start in every team in the world. No need for hypotheticals like saying striker x can't be world class as bayern have Lewandowski so striker x wouldn't start there.

If a player can be reasonably considered good enough to likely start for any team, then he's world class.

At United, I think Bruno would start at any club. Would excel at Liverpool to barca to juventus

De gea has probably slipped a tier in recent years. Rashford potential to get there.

I think that simple test can be applied to most players fairly well and if you're debating it probably gives an idea of where the player stands
Spot on! A player good enough to likely have plenty of playing time on any team. Bruno, Rashford and Pogba would likely play a lot on any team in the world.

For discussion (It’s difficult and I’m not 100% sure);

In the second tier we likely have DeGea, Maquire, Cavani, Henderson and probably Shaw and Bailly - when they are in perfect fit.

Third tier: Fred, Martial, AWB, Telles

Fourth tier: Matic, Greenwood (don’t take talent into consideration), McT, Lindgaard, Mata

Don’t know where to put VDB, Lindelof and James, Tuanzebe.

Maybe it also should be a tire 5 in order to differentiate even more.
 

Flanders Devil

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I don’t love the term, but for what it’s worth, I’d take a view that if there’s debate that x player is world class, then they probably aren’t.
It should be reserved for the very best where there is no question.
 

Ecstatic

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World-class players means best players in the world.

The question is how many active football players deserve this label? 11, or 20, or 30, etc.?
 

Gopher Brown

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It’s a lazy description which adds nothing to a debate. Similar to using ‘overrated’ as a measure of a player - you might as well have said nothing for all it adds.

The only way it could be successfully applied is if we were sending a team to another planet to win a game, like the plot of that 90s comedy film starring Michael Jordan, Schindler’s List.
 

Polar

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World-class players means best players in the world.

The question is how many active football players deserve this label? 11, or 20, or 30, etc.?
Probably more close to 30 if not more, in my opinion.

The first cut is Ballon d'Or canditates (Messi, Lewandowski, Ronaldo, Mbappe, Neymar). That is a to narrow definition of a (world class player), and it’s very difficult to differentiate between top 5-30 players.

That’s why I think players likely able to play regularly on any team in Europe should be considered a world class player. I consider City, RM, Barcelona and BM to have the best squads in Europe, and if you are a very consistent member of their set-up, you are a world class player.
 

Chairman Steve

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I’ve always deemed world-class as consistently high performances playing at the highest echelons of football over a period of at least 2-3 seasons.
 

BenitoSTARR

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You’ll never get any agreement as it’s subjective so a poll won’t help.

I’ve always took it to be a broad term that is generally split between describing a single performance or a period of sustained performances.

I think someone can have world class performances but not be a world class player as that level isn’t sustained or repeated often enough at a high enough competitive level (Champions League, WC, PL, La Liga, Euros, Bundesliga, Serie A, Ligue 1) I think outside of those leagues it’s hard to claim that performances are in a competitive enough environment and some are questionable anyway.

I’ll give 4 examples from the premier league:

Kevin De Brunye is clearly world class and maybe in the higher brackets of whatever you would call the absolute best players in the world. He’s had a significantly sustained period of top performance with rare off games in that time. I don’t think anyone would question he fits anyone’s criteria.

Now let’s look a level below (bear with me) let’s say Bruno Fernandes he’s had regular high performance play (over a year now) with the odd off game but you can clearly see his impact on the side. Take him out and we drop a significant level so it feels ok to say he’s world class because he’d likely have that effect wherever he went now.

Then there is someone like Jack Grealish who is a really, really good player, take him out of Villa and they really would struggle and he’d likely have a similar impact wherever he went similar to Bruno but some might hesitate to call him world class due to the club level he’s working at so he would not be clearly in the bracket but be emerging into it.

Now let’s look a level below that at someone like James Ward Prowse. Clearly a great footballer and putting in outstanding performances but would he do that in most sides? I don’t think so. He feels more of a system player making the most of his talents and so is a top PL performer but not world class and unlikely to be. He does however have world class abilities like his set pieces but is that enough in my book to be in the world class bracket? Not for my money.

Now depending on who of those 4 you would put in that category of World class I think you find your answer of your own definition.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Current world 11 with world class players. So these are the lot. Maybe could pick someone better than Pavard and Henderson, but noone obvious that have won things recently. Probably Goretzka for Henderson.

Neuer
Pavard Ramos Marquinhos Davies
Kimmich Henderson
De Bruyne
Ronaldo Lewandowski Neymar
Everyone has an opinion on who is the best in the world though. I disagree with several of your choices and how can someone like Henderson be world class when there are 20 or more players in other positions that are better footballers than him. That is why saying 'world class is only players in the world 11' is not a great way of looking at the definition.
 

OleBoiii

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For me the term gets confused.

In my opinion, world class players are players who are in the top 2-4 of their respective positions. So if there was a 25 man UCL dream team, these guys should be in it.

3 GKs
2 RB
2 LB
4 CB
2 RW
2 LW
2 DMF
2 AMF
2 CM
4 ST

Fill in that team and you have a world class squad.
This has generally been my way of thinking as well.

It's a flawed method, though. Some years CBs will be worse than normal(for instance). Giving certain players a world class stamp just because there's a quota and they happen to be next in line, feels wrong. Also, in the last 10 years or so I feel that there have been 7-8 world class forwards at all times. Messi, Ronaldo, Neymar, Mbappe, Lewandowski, Zlatan, Aguero, Rooney, RVP, Kane, Salah, Mane, Ribery, Robben, Bale, Nani, Valencia, Sterling, Hazard, Suarez and Costa are just some examples of forwards who have been world class at some point in the last 10 years. That's more than 20 players off the top of my head, with several being world class for long stretches of time. And I probably forgot 5-10 players.
 

sun_tzu

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I think everybody has their own interpretation

For me I tend to think if you make a 25 man squad of the best players in the world then anybody you realistically consider for that squad is "world class"

But it's such a subjective term that it's not something worth getting hung up on
 

Lord SInister

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Everyone has their own definition tbh.
Ans restricting it to who would make it to an world xi is unfair, because world xi is reflection of the best player of the said period in that period in that position.


In my opinion, world class is more form based. Any player who during their peak/prime period, played consistent high class football in their position is world class. A world class footballer must be consistent. Someone can be a genuis player, but if he isn't consistent, I won't consider them world class. Not counting few bad games in a season, but those players who have a run of 7-8 great games and than stinkers in rest of the games in a season. A world class player should be performing very well over a period of season. Doesn't mean they should be scoring/assisting goals every game.

For example in our team in current season Bruno is playing in a world class level. Pogba and De Gea have had seasons were they were world class, but currently they are on and off.
 

Tony247

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1. Undroppable in his own team
2. Can walk into any of top 4 sides (not necessarily in all of them) of four major leagues in Europe
3. Is part of his national team

Tick all 3 above and he is a world class footballer for me at that given point of time.
 

BlackShark_80

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1. Top 5 in his position
2. Can walk into any big clubs
3. Undroppable and having big impact on his team
4. Playing consistently at top level for 3-4 yrs
 

Bilbo

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I've always had the same answer to that, and many disagree, but for me its simply 'if we were picking a squad today to play Mars, who would be in it'

I guess its another way of saying best 2 or 3 in each position, and I realise that would penalise certain players in overstocked positions, but so be it.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I've always had the same answer to that, and many disagree, but for me its simply 'if we were picking a squad today to play Mars, who would be in it'

I guess its another way of saying best 2 or 3 in each position, and I realise that would penalise certain players in overstocked positions, but so be it.
Are we at home or away?
 

AltiUn

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Current world 11 with world class players. So these are the lot. Maybe could pick someone better than Pavard and Henderson, but noone obvious that have won things recently. Probably Goretzka for Henderson.

Neuer
Pavard Ramos Marquinhos Davies
Kimmich Henderson
De Bruyne
Ronaldo Lewandowski Neymar
Bolded inclusions, some questionable, some outright wrong. I think we have a very different definition for "current". That team would likely get beat by the full strength Bayern or Liverpool team.
 

tjb

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One thing I have noticed is British fans have always been so reluctant to praise players due to a past inferiority complex. I was reading an old Seria A thread and I noticed how arrogant their fans used to be. Seemingly any decent player was labelled class, with players like Totti being termed the best player in the world, despite most of these players not actually being as productive. It's the true reason why Henry didn't win a Ballon D'or, there was no real respect given to English teams then, outside of Man Utd. Part of the reason for that imo, is unlike now when people have retrospect, our fans were constantly ceding the quality of our players. It was United fans that were underrating Scholes and Giggs publically. The idea then was that, since Serie A had some decent defenders compared to the EPL, the contributions of the top prem players then meant less. In retrospect, that ideology has proven to have been rubbished overtime, with a lot of Serie A legends not being as fondly remembered now. You had people in 2004 questioning why a player like Chivu would join United from Roma..doesn't this sound familiar?

Today we are in a situation where the Premier League is considered by far the best in the world. Yet you still have fans questioning the attraction of the clubs and the quality of some of the players. Players like Grealish and Maddison would have been praised to the moon and termed world class by those Serie A forums, yet EPL fans are so reluctant to do this due to fear of seeming biased. We have really world class players throughout the top 6, yet any drop in performance is deemed unforgivable, yet back then La Liga and Serie A fans would praise any player that was decent for half of the season. Vardy is a top class striker, Calvert Lewin is class...No other league has this many good players and Premier League should embrace it rather than shirk from it and pick on small issues.
 

AltiUn

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If De Bruyne isn't world class, I dunno who is.
Although if you mean he is currently injured.
He hasn't been this season, the world 11 was "current". He's been very good, not world 11 good.