What is more likely? That United get much better or that City and Liverpool get worse?

Hound Dog

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He won the league multiple times with Dortmund. What you are describing is a likely scenario but not plausible. They have a great team and the players look hungry for more.

Don't go by their end of the league form. Obviously there was a drop off once they won the league mathematically. It won't happen next season though. My prediction is that Liverpool and Man City will again get the first two spots but the points difference between them will be less than 6.

Man Utd and Chelsea will fight for the 3rd and 4th positions and we will get 3rd comfortably.
I would have said the same six months ago, I do not consider their late season form to be indicative of anything.

I follow the Bundesliga closely and quite vividly remember both of his title wins, especially the first one, when no one really took them as serious challengers until somewhere around half way through the season.

However, there are not any obvious parallels between that Dortmund side and this Liverpool one, so not sure why you would bring them up. I did not say that Klopp's style can work only for two seasons, I said that it is such that it could amplify declines.

Generally, it is extremely difficult to maintain the same level after achieving a long-lasting goal. Think of Real in the first season post la Decima. Klopp might well manage to do it, though, we will have to wait and see.

Also, the nature of modern football is such that long-term management is not really a thing anymore and he has been there for nearly five years now. I think everything is in place for their cooperation to turn sour.
 

Tarrou

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Didn’t Liverpool run massively +EV according to Xg? If that’s the case they are likely to revert to the mean.

City look kinda spent but if Pep can rejuvenate their motivation I can see them improving actually.

We should improve based on the current trajectory. If we get Sancho and a couple of good squad players it would be fantastic.

All things considered if we finish within 15 points I think that’s huge progress considering how far back we’ve been.
 

ReallyUSA

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We get much better. We didn't lose a league game when we got one player.
 

VeevaVee

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Both is the likely case. Especially Liverpool dropping judging by a lot of their football this year. If City were a normal club then I'd say the same for them but they have the means to do otherwise. Whether Pep can do that is another matter. He's never done it before, but he's one of the best managers in the world and has all the resources, so it's possible.
 

The Brown Bull

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I believe City will improve.
Not sure Liverpool can but do they need to? They just won the league by 18 points.
I think/hope we will improve.
I believe Arsenal will be much better next season too.
 

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City will be a lot better next season, Liverpool will be a bit worse. Those two will be way out in front ahead of the chasing pack, which will include Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and us.
 

Mindhunter

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I would have said the same six months ago, I do not consider their late season form to be indicative of anything.

I follow the Bundesliga closely and quite vividly remember both of his title wins, especially the first one, when no one really took them as serious challengers until somewhere around half way through the season.

However, there are not any obvious parallels between that Dortmund side and this Liverpool one, so not sure why you would bring them up. I did not say that Klopp's style can work only for two seasons, I said that it is such that it could amplify declines.

Generally, it is extremely difficult to maintain the same level after achieving a long-lasting goal. Think of Real in the first season post la Decima. Klopp might well manage to do it, though, we will have to wait and see.

Also, the nature of modern football is such that long-term management is not really a thing anymore and he has been there for nearly five years now. I think everything is in place for their cooperation to turn sour.
As I said earlier, I think it is likely but the probability is low i.e., it isn't plausible. They are more likely to maintain their level at least for the next 2-3 seasons even with minor upgrades or additions to their squad. I really don't see a reason to predict a massive drop-off in their performance.

However, it is definitely possible.
 

Mindhunter

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I believe City will improve.
Not sure Liverpool can but do they need to? They just won the league by 18 points.
I think/hope we will improve.
I believe Arsenal will be much better next season too.
Arsenal still lack the consistency to be anywhere near the third or forth spot and I don't see them crossing the chasm between them and the others. Spurs will be Spurs, they will bottle it as soon as they are in a do or die situation. Also, Mourinho is a ticking time bomb. If he doesn't get his players (which is highly unlikely) and loses the first few games, he will start his sabotaging tactics to get back at Levy and the club. He doesn't have an iota of professionalism left in him.

I strongly believe that it will be us, Chelsea, and Leicester again for the 3-5 spots.
 

Wilt

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combined points over the last 2 seasons ...

Liverpool 196 points
Man City 179 points
Man Utd 132 points

While I don’t see Liverpool maintaining their points tally and City have had a bad season by their standards. Utd will need to up their game massively to get anywhere near them.

If Utd can hit 80+ points next season it still won’t be enough but they won’t be far away.
 

cyril C

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2 out of 3. I think we will get better, more consistent for sure. If we can get the right right wing, and a good CB, can only get better.
City will get worse. Minus Silva, Sane and Aguero 1 y older. If they can get a good Kompany replacement, and a decent attacker, City might crawl back to where they were last season but I suspect will take another season to season.

Liverpool, some tired legs and injury perhaps, but don't see them falling off the cliff. 80-points team, so up to us to match them.
 

TheLord

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I think it will be a little bit of everything.
Liverpool will lose a little more and Chelsea/City/United will win a little more.

I think there will be two close clusters at the top next season - Liverpool/City followed by Chelsea/United. Wolves/Leicester/Spurs will form a distant third.

The order of the teams in those clusters will be determined by their summer recruits.
 

Web of Bissaka

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To be honest, it's the latter.
The latter is more likely than the former.

Doesn't mean I don't believe United will get better, I do and confident we will, but I have higher confidence with City and Pool to get worse first - they only have the way down to go and showed signs of dropping after exhibiting top form for many months previously, and then there's other factors like player's motivations after winning the big trophies, complacency, good players leaving, etc. As for us, in the future (possibly this window), Ole will get failed transfers and the possibly that he doesn't improve in terms of coaching. Seriously another season of Lingard is just... we'll see.
 

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Liverpool will regress over the next 5 years city will always Be 1/2/3 even on a down year.

It's simply that city will spend and spend and spend again if a 40 million player flops.


Lfc will never nail the front three replace job they have and they won't simply be able to go spend again if they get it wrong.
 

MadDogg

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Both.

I expect Liverpool to drop a bit over the next few seasons. Hopefully starting from next season, but it might be another season or two after that. City will probably improve over what they were this season but (hopefully) not to the extent that they were a few seasons ago.

Meanwhile we should improve quite significantly with the right tweaks and signings. Next season should be about closing the gap quite a lot, then the following season improve further and launch a proper title challenge. Of course, Chelsea will be looking to do the exact same thing and it might become a real four-horse race at the top.
 

Pughnichi

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I think we’ll be an awful lot closer but expect Liverpool and City to be front runners.

I do think though, that empty stadiums helped us whereby overall quality came through and we weren’t instead travelling to difficult grounds where the fans encouraged the home team.

Bruno was a revelation but his overall play dropped significantly in last 2/3 games which was a concern and leads me to...Our first 11 is good enough but when we’re bringing in Lingard, James, Mata, Pereira, we look inadequate (for a title challenge)

If Sancho and Grealish come in to help share the load I’d feel much more confident about pushing Liverpool and City close.

I also can’t see Liverpool rampaging ahead to the position they found themselves in this season
 

Terminator

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No one's getting close to City/Liverpool in the near future. They are simply way too good.
 

Adisa

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Both teams have world class coaches. The best case scenario is for us to get much better as well.
 

Eire Red United

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Liverpool surely can’t have another season with so many lucky scrappy wins; VAR decisions and luck with injuries. Plus they have had 2 massive seasons in a row and they definitely won’t have the same hunger now they have finally won the title.

City will need to spend big time this year imo their defence is on the way out and Aguero’s goals are going to need replaced soon. Can see them having a slightly stronger season to this year which will likely be enough to get them a title unless we sort ourselves out big time.

I think we’ll improve a lot on last year, the 3 amigos up front will be another year older plus hopefully Sancho added to the mix. Pogba and Bruno in the team for a full season and fit will be huge, we’re a different beast altogether with those 2.

If the De Gea issue is sorted, we manage to get some decent players who can come in to the first xi without a drop in quality and we get some luck with injuries for once there’s no reason why we can’t challenge for the title, Liverpool and City’s squads aren’t anything amazing compared to ours.
 

dal

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If Ighalo leaves then if we can get the below we’d be in a very strong position ;

Thiago, Sancho, Jiminez, Centre back.

And

Smalling, Sanchez, Lingard, Perreira, Ighalo leave.

That is a lot of signings and squad adjustments for one season however we’d have a very strong second string also.

I’d say to challenge in this day and age whilst in the champions league you would require a minimum of 15 first team players.
 

clarkydaz

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We are closer to them rather than them pulling away. City have lost Silva, you dont just replace him especially how pep wants to play. Aguero a year older and jesus isnt at his level.

Up to now we were way inferior but i wouldnt fear playing either now
 

fastwalker

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Both.

I expect Liverpool to drop a bit over the next few seasons. Hopefully starting from next season, but it might be another season or two after that. City will probably improve over what they were this season but (hopefully) not to the extent that they were a few seasons ago.

Meanwhile we should improve quite significantly with the right tweaks and signings. Next season should be about closing the gap quite a lot, then the following season improve further and launch a proper title challenge. Of course, Chelsea will be looking to do the exact same thing and it might become a real four-horse race at the top.
I think you make some really interesting points here. If United do not reach 80+ points next season, with the current first 11 and possible additions coming, then there is something quite seriously wrong in my opinion. I think a 14 point improvement on this season (equivalent to four wins and two draws) should be absolutely achievable.

However, as previously stated I expect City to be far better next season and to be back in the mid to upper 90 point range again. As for Liverpool, I really do think that Liverpool side has begun to get the taste for success. We saw it with United back in 92-93. As soon as we won our first Premiership title there was not much to stop us. It is often overstated, but winning takes a certain mindset and mental toughness and over the past two seasons Liverpool have shown worrying signs that they are far from one season wonders. I can therefore see City and Liverpool duking it out again for the top spot, with United and Chelsea battling it out for third.

I do not expect the fortunes of City and Liverpool to change until Pep and Klopp are off the scene.
 

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Liverpool deserves to win the league this year but had an awful lot of luck in their side (don’t get me wrong they still would have won comfortably). I can’t see them emulating anywhere near what they did this season and will most likely drop points through low scoring draws rather than losing games.

City I think will be steady as usual, prone to a dip in form but I don’t think that will change.

Chelsea will most likely improve and hopefully we will too. I think we will meet in the middle realistically, they will drop points and others will gain them but I think City and Liverpool will still finish 10 points or so ahead of the rest of the pack.
 

eire-red

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I think we'll be closer by virtue of a bit of both, we'll improve and hopefully reach the mid 80 mark in terms of points, and hopefully there will be an easing off from the ridiculously high standards City and Liverpool have been setting.

Still think a real title push is beyond our reach next season, but I am hoping we cement our place in the Top 3, and also go on a good run in the CL. Adding a trophy along the way would be great too.
 

The Brown Bull

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Arsenal still lack the consistency to be anywhere near the third or forth spot and I don't see them crossing the chasm between them and the others. Spurs will be Spurs, they will bottle it as soon as they are in a do or die situation. Also, Mourinho is a ticking time bomb. If he doesn't get his players (which is highly unlikely) and loses the first few games, he will start his sabotaging tactics to get back at Levy and the club. He doesn't have an iota of professionalism left in him.

I strongly believe that it will be us, Chelsea, and Leicester again for the 3-5 spots.
I think Arteta is starting to make progress.I don't think they will be challengers but I really believe they will greatly improve.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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We are closer to them rather than them pulling away. City have lost Silva, you dont just replace him especially how pep wants to play. Aguero a year older and jesus isnt at his level.

Up to now we were way inferior but i wouldnt fear playing either now
Yeah City have looked human this season. Let us see what they will add. Pool have a way to get those wins against the weaker teams, but I do think they will be more than beatable next season.
If neither add in the market they could be going down weaker next year.
 

Red Royal

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We have a young squad, aside from Matic, so we will only improve as opposed to City who I think have so e serious problems and can be caught.

As for Scousers, depends on hoe they invest. They should buy a couple of good squad optiobs (obviously I hope they don't). Also, depends how they react to being Champions... could go either way.
 

clarkydaz

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We have a young squad, aside from Matic, so we will only improve as opposed to City who I think have so e serious problems and can be caught.

As for Scousers, depends on hoe they invest. They should buy a couple of good squad optiobs (obviously I hope they don't). Also, depends how they react to being Champions... could go either way.
Lets not forget a few months back that club wanted the taxpayer to pay their staff. So any big signings must be met with fitting questions
 

Green_Red

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I think City will come back stronger next season but we'll wait and see if losing Davis Silva this year will have as much impact as losing Kompany had.

It will surprise me if Liverpool can keep the level of consistency they've had for the last two seasons going over three seasons, they might, depending on ins and outs.

I think we'll take another step towards both of them but would be surprised if we did better than both. If we can get ahead of one that would be progress but so would just getting closer. We should be aiming to add at least another 15 points next season. That's my expectations on next season, especially if we bring in another 2 or 3 good players.
 

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I think it‘s not as much the big picture as it seems. It‘s not about looking to get 80, 90 or 100 points. If we can grab a good start and then just hang on and not drift further than 5-6 points from the top, I think we have every chance of coming closer than many expect. We‘ve seen what we are capable of when we‘re on fire.
 

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He won the league multiple times with Dortmund. What you are describing is a likely scenario but not plausible. They have a great team and the players look hungry for more.

Don't go by their end of the league form. Obviously there was a drop off once they won the league mathematically. It won't happen next season though. My prediction is that Liverpool and Man City will again get the first two spots but the points difference between them will be less than 6.

Man Utd and Chelsea will fight for the 3rd and 4th positions and we will get 3rd comfortably.
Our only hope is that the Scousers g through a spell of injuries. They have been lucky with that the past season. Its unheard of that they had any injuries to any of their key players last season.
 

sglowrider

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I think it‘s not as much the big picture as it seems. It‘s not about looking to get 80, 90 or 100 points. If we can grab a good start and then just hang on and not drift further than 5-6 points from the top, I think we have every chance of coming closer than many expect. We‘ve seen what we are capable of when we‘re on fire.
We have a thinish squad. If all things being equal ie not too many injuries, we will start off strong, and fade out towards the later parts of the season. We will only have better consistency once we increase the depth of our squad.
 

Mr Smith

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combined points over the last 2 seasons ...

Liverpool 196 points
Man City 179 points
Man Utd 132 points

While I don’t see Liverpool maintaining their points tally and City have had a bad season by their standards. Utd will need to up their game massively to get anywhere near them.

If Utd can hit 80+ points next season it still won’t be enough but they won’t be far away.
I think there's a decent chance we could break 80 points next season and still finish 4th. Which I would still consider great progress. I think the title race and the top teams in general will all be a lot closer next year than they have been.
 

Sad Chris

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We have a thinish squad. If all things being equal ie not too many injuries, we will start off strong, and fade out towards the later parts of the season. We will only have better consistency once we increase the depth of our squad.
True, our squad is thin. We have a very good first 11 but are only one or two injuries away from another dogfight for top 4. On the other hand, if Liverpool were to have one or two key injuries I think it could be worse for them than for us. City is the only team among us three with quality in depth.

Lots of ifs and buts but I don‘t see us fading out towards the end of the season unless we have an injury crisis. I think Ole understands that we won‘t be able to play our first 11 every week at full strength like we did this year while playing catch up. It paid off, so I‘d say it was the correct thing to do under those circumstances but we‘ll definitely need to rotate more this season.
 

sglowrider

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True, our squad is thin. We have a very good first 11 but are only one or two injuries away from another dogfight for top 4. On the other hand, if Liverpool were to have one or two key injuries I think it could be worse for them than for us. City is the only team among us three with quality in depth.

Lots of ifs and buts but I don‘t see us fading out towards the end of the season unless we have an injury crisis. I think Ole understands that we won‘t be able to play our first 11 every week at full strength like we did this year while playing catch up. It paid off, so I‘d say it was the correct thing to do under those circumstances but we‘ll definitely need to rotate more this season.
I am not concerned with the number of points discussion etc. Its a 4D chess calculus and will get us nowhere.

Our key priority next season is to bridge the goals for gap between the top two clubs. Thats the tangible target. A 30+ goals diff.

We know that our starting 11 has the ability to bridge that gap. Sancho would enhance that ability to bridge.

The main area of concern and lack of quality will be the midfield assuming we get a Sancho. We may be able to get Sancho to play a more central Bruno role if he is out with a hamstring. A big maybe though. Otherwise its back to Pereira.

Pogba? Matic? Will Fred and McT be good enough? Or we have to change our system to suit them.

I have less of a concern/lower priority for the back-four. De Gea, less said the better since there isn't much we can do about him vis a vis his massive long term contract.
 
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Tyrion

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I can't see Liverpool emulating last season (though I said that the season before too :D), but if the post-lockdown form is anything to go by I think there will be a drop in the level of performance from Liverpool. There are a lot of games that they scraped 3 points by a single goal in, and I'd be surprised if they manage to go so long again before being defeated.

City, on the other hand I can see improving. Considering they went a whole season without a decent central defence they're going to invest hard now that the FFP monkeys are off their backs too.

Chelsea are another that will be a force to be reckoned with next season.

It is up to us to rise to the challenge and I'm sure we'll improve but I think talks of the title next season would be a little premature. We have a young, vibrant squad that is coming along very nicely so I think the next few seasons will hopefully be very positive for us.

One thing is for sure for me: the top four will be the same next season - in what order I'm not sure.
I agree about Liverpool. I thought they would be like Dortmund in Klopps last season and slip big time but he managed the opposite. I seriously think he is even better than Guardiola. I dont think we will beat him for the foreseeable future. The team isn't good enough.
 

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United need to become more consistent, we have shown that we have the ability to play title winning football. Big question is, do we have the mentality to do it consistently and against smaller teams.
 

mancave bear

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We will get much better, city will stay the same and liverpool will get worse.

Our main problem, before Fernandes, was breaking down teams who parked the bus. With Pogba out most of the season that was a huge problem.

With Sancho, a new left footed center back, and Graelish, and our young team getting one year older, I think we will be a lot closer to the top two teams.

If we get a scond or first place that would be a huge achivement.

Our team is like a good bottle of wine, and needs two - four more years, before its ready to win the title again.
 
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adexkola

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I am not concerned with the number of points discussion etc. Its a 4D chess calculus and will get us nowhere.

Our key priority next season is to bridge the goals for gap between the top two clubs. Thats the tangible target. A 30+ goals diff.

We know that our starting 11 has the ability to bridge that gap. Sancho would enhance that ability to bridge.

The main area of concern and lack of quality will be the midfield assuming we get a Sancho. We may be able to get Sancho to play a more central Bruno role if he is out with a hamstring. A big maybe though. Otherwise its back to Pereira.

Pogba? Matic? Will Fred and McT be good enough? Or we have to change our system to suit them.

I have less of a concern/lower priority for the back-four. De Gea, less said the better since there isn't much we can do about him vis a vis his massive long term contract.
Eh?

Points directly translate to a minimum number of wins+draws we need to get under the belt. Title champions have long game winning streaks in them (City and Liverpool have won 18 games in a row in their title winning seasons). Forget about what the competition is doing; if we can sustain that run of form then without a doubt we'll be in the title race at least, and clear front runners at best.