What is Ole doing!

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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“Do some Hollywood shit” perfectly sums up his tenure here. Bruno, Pogba, Rashford, Greenwood, and so on, so many of our goals scored have been a result of one of those players trying some “Hollywood shit”
 

united_99

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Yes. Few times. After Leeds game he said that tactics was "to give Paul licence to roam and do things". Few times he said that his plan is to give attacking players freedom.

Master tactician.
He also said after that game that while Pogba and Bruno will get the headlines, they should thank the players behind them who enabled them to play like this (something like that, I have not quoted him).
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Wagner is actually a pretty good tactical manager, just he had no good PL level players at Huddersfield - in fact most Premier League managers are these days. Ole is the opposite of that, an old school “Big Sam” type of manager who needs top class players who can work things out for themselves on the pitch.
Big Sam never got relegated despite always managing shit teams. Ole got relegated after taking over a Cardiff side that pissed the championship & were sitting in about 12th when he got the job. He then proceeded to leave them 17th in the championship before finally getting the axe. Fat Sam is levels above Ole.
 

therealtboy

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I actually think he sets up well most the time. Tactics are similar to what I'd expect from Fergie.

The problem is, he never really seems to have a plan b when things are going wrong. His changes are uninspiring or poorly timed. We could previously blame the black of options from the bench, but not this season. In game management needs a lot of work, something that Fergie and Mourinho excelled at - and quite frankly has less to do with coaching ability and more to do with experience.

Hopefully a lesson was learned from last night - and I'm sure he will - but it's hard to accept, as a manager should have done all their lesson learning before coming to United.
Why bring race into this ?
 

Galactic

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No point doing this really. His tactics change for most games and it depends very much on how he thinks the opponents will play.
 

Bobade

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Big Sam never got relegated despite always managing shit teams. Ole got relegated after taking over a Cardiff side that pissed the championship & were sitting in about 12th when he got the job. He then proceeded to leave them 17th in the championship before finally getting the axe. Fat Sam is levels above Ole.
Well, he did get relegated last season.
 

FreakyJim

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It's hard to find anything really technical from him but that would make sense given he seems hands off and more 'big picture'/institution focused. I hadn't realised he was also relatively hands off at Molde, any resident Norge's might have insight into who the head coach was at the time.

At Molde:


At United:
No wonder we play the way we play. He's stuck in the past.
 

Tomuś

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He gets lot of things right tactically but yesterday he really fecked it up. You could see we were holding on since 35th minute ffs, 10 men or not.

Against such a shower it was baffling how we didn't even have the plan to do counters.

Won't even start with his subs..
 

Dante

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Although they're both fantastic I think the squad would be closer to what Ole wants it to be if neither Pogba or Ronaldo were at the club
I think Ronaldo is quite similar to Cavani, which makes me think that Ole is keen on the poacher style CF.

But I agree with you about Pogba. He's a square peg in a first XI that only has round holes.
 

Red Star One

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I actually think he sets up well most the time. Tactics are similar to what I'd expect from Fergie.

The problem is, he never really seems to have a plan b when things are going wrong. His changes are uninspiring or poorly timed. We could previously blame the black of options from the bench, but not this season. In game management needs a lot of work, something that Fergie and Mourinho excelled at - and quite frankly has less to do with coaching ability and more to do with experience.

Hopefully a lesson was learned from last night - and I'm sure he will - but it's hard to accept, as a manager should have done all their lesson learning before coming to United.
Surely he should’ve done these lessons before but more worrying is the fact he’s actually lost a fair number of games in Europe already, with a few notable examples of much inferior teams beating us, and I’m not entirely sure there’s any progress in that regard.
 

Mickson

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Can't say I watch them enough to give a fair answer.

Based on the tactical shitshow displayed by Pep in last season Champions League final, I'd say no :lol: .
That was the answer I searched for anyway. They don't have a plan b because the greatest managers have a plan A and various small tactical differences to a plan A, but they do not have a plan B because they have a clear tactical style and a clear idea of what they want to do. And they know that their style is successful. Russell Martin says it brilliantly here

 

Flexdegea

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Woah, woah, woah - hold up one minute.

I'm an Ole fan. I'm not in here bashing him, I hope he's here for a long time. But it's ridiculous to not acknowledge that on many occasions Ole has been found wanting in regards to substitutions in important games.

As I said - I'm sure he'll learn from last night and likely reflect on how else he could have approached the game after the red card.

Sorry mate wasn't attacking you directly :lol:


Was just pointing out the general tone around the place when the team drops points.


Personally thought he got some subs wrong last night myself, but it's the 'he never makes subs or doesn't know how to make them' you hear constantly even when he made subs many a match that have changed the game.
 

AshRK

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I don't think to call him as someone who has no tactics is correct. No team can finish 2nd or reach EL final or Semis in domestic cup competition by just relying on individuals. It is impossible. If that was the case every team could do that. If he was that shit surely he wouldn't have such decent record against the likes of Pep or Tuchel.

The issue is tactically he is not the smartest either especially when things get tricky. Present him a unique challenge in a match and more often than not he will fail. He makes silly mistakes which has cost us on multiple occasion aka CL knock out last year, Europa final and yesterday to name some. I for one was actually happy with him being proactive yesterday and making subs immediately after the red card but then the way he set us up after the red card was a big NO NO. Big teams don't play like that and he for one should know that the most considering he was part of the team lead by Sir Alex.
 

Andycoleno9

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Wait…you mean the game where we won 5-1 and Pogba got 4 assists? What an incompetent cnut. How dare he give Paul a free role.
You really don't see bigger picture there, don't you? That is his main and only plan; go there and improvise. That is why we can't create a chance against organised teams.
The way how he leads United, any manager from division 3 to PL can do. Throw in biggest names and "play football lads". Ffs, how many proof do you people need?
4 years in charge. Top players signed. And we were still dominated by YB, Wolves and Saints without creating decent chances.

This is becoming total farce. Seriously, do you people support FC Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Man Utd?
 

Drainy

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He gets his starting tactics a lot more frequently than not, but his in game management needs to improve.

As I have said previously he sets the team up with a set structure and basic instructions, but delegates to the players to make in game micro-adjustments to come out on top. It's a mimic of what Fergie did.

If he can start getting the in-game calls right in the big games, and win a trophy I reckon success could compound on itself because he's doing most other things well and sometimes its just the extra belief that wins a game. Its a big season for him. He needs to win something.
 

ivaldo

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You really don't see bigger picture there, don't you? That is his main and only plan; go there and improvise. That is why we can't create a chance against organised teams.
The way how he leads United, any manager from division 3 to PL can do. Throw in biggest names and "play football lads". Ffs, how many proof do you people need?
4 years in charge. Top players signed. And we were still dominated by YB, Wolves and Saints without creating decent chances.

This is becoming total farce. Seriously, do you people support FC Ole Gunnar Solskjaer or Man Utd?
We just put 4 past Newcastle, who couldn't sit any deeper.

Absolute nonsense. If you don't think he's good enough, fine, but let's not pretend he's doing feck all to set his team up.
 

TheRedDevil'sAdvocate

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Out of curiosity, do Pep have a plan b? Does Klopp have one? If so, what is their plan b?
Plan A, plan B, does Solskjaer have a plan and all the other malarkey. On the other hand, the laughs and the shrugging off, pretending that everything is working like clockwork. I have never considered myself an "Ole-inner" or whatever, but seriously, this place has become an echo chamber and both extremes are responsible for it (in general, not directed at you).

To answer your question, no, they don't. To make it even easier, neither did Ferguson. In fact, the biggest compliment you can give Fergie is to say that, during his heyday, he was winning game after game despite the fact that everyone and his dog could tell you how United were going to set up on a football pitch.

What these two did were adjustments to their fundamental philosophies, so that they could deal with the particularities of the PL and the demands of their era. While you can very well argue that Pep has been giving an unlimited credit card at City, he still had to come up with a new structure, the one with the FBs tucking inside and operating as agile/mobile midfielders, to maintain his high-line and push his more creative players further up in the attacking third. You can also argue that Klopp got lucky with Robertson and TAA, but his possession game has improved greatly over the years and his Liverpool side can create overloads everywhere in the attacking half. That's after he spent a couple of years watching his team's performances deteriorating in the second half of the season, simply because there was no fuel left in the tank. They spent the money, true enough, but they also found working solutions to their problems. And, frankly, isn't that why the best managers in the world are being paid the big salaries for?

The new sensation on the Caf is the defensive midfielder. As if signing Rice would change the fact that we have only one player, Luke Shaw, that can actually move the ball forward with purpose in the first phase of build-up. As if having a new Carrick would make up for the fact that we don't work hard, off the ball, to win second balls in order to stay high up the pitch and pin the opponent down.

Solskjaer has a system and he also has implemented several, what do they call them... "patterns of play". He's not a stickler for rigid structures, like Pep, and he's also not as gung-ho as Klopp in his approach. There's a flexibility in his way of thinking that can work in our favour (it has in some big games and it has also helped him when he was with his back to the wall), but can become detrimental too. We let Lukaku go (fine with that), spent two seasons utilizing either Martial or Rashford up front, as players who would start centrally and move to the left for others to attack the box, to revert to a system where everyone is trying to find Ronaldo in the box. We say we want to play with a high line, and we break the bank for Maguire. We want to use the wide channels to advance the ball, and we sign a FB that isn't good at that. Then we were crying out for a new CB, and now that we have him, we want Trippier too. What kind of defensive midfielder do we want? A Carrick-like player in a midfield of two means that we'll use the low-block more often than not. But isn't that the type of football that turned Mourinho into a managerial dinosaur? A better version of McT/Fred? This surely must lead to the "3" and the "1", in our 4231, working their socks off without the ball to regain possession and play high octane football in tight spaces, but it's clearly not what we've been seeing on the pitch.

I'll reserve my judgement for the end of the season, but it's not a good sign when, three years into his tenure, when we're bad, we look utterly hopeless on the pitch. He says he wants to play with pace and power and we still spend entire games moving the ball sideways at a snail's pace. That would suggest that is not the absence of a Plan B that's hurting us.
 

UnitedSofa

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This whole “he doesn’t have tactics” “PE teacher” malarkey just proves how entitled and hypercritical the modern fan has become, confidently stating that a man with a UEFA license “cannot coach” whilst sitting at home with a beer in one hand and a newspaper full of chips in the other, not knowing tactics if it hit them upside the head.

individual brilliance when we win - can’t be Ole’s tactics, has to be individuals when we win. But don’t talk to me about individual errors when we lose, because in that situation it must be ole’s fault
 

Wheato

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Last night really shouldn't be used as a measurement of his tactical abilities, the red card put us in a bad situation, that being said I can't deny that Ole made a bad situation worse with some very odd tactics and subs.
The decision to park the bus against Young Boys, from 35 mins on was shocking. Taking off DVB, Bruno and Ronaldo. Terrible. Shocking choices. But more than that, he wasn't able to motivate the players on the pitch. Any other team in the same situation City, Liverpool or Chelsea. They would go on to win that game 2 or 3 nil. We threw the towel in.
 

UpWithRivers

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Plan A, plan B, does Solskjaer have a plan and all the other malarkey. On the other hand, the laughs and the shrugging off, pretending that everything is working like clockwork. I have never considered myself an "Ole-inner" or whatever, but seriously, this place has become an echo chamber and both extremes are responsible for it (in general, not directed at you).

To answer your question, no, they don't. To make it even easier, neither did Ferguson. In fact, the biggest compliment you can give Fergie is to say that, during his heyday, he was winning game after game despite the fact that everyone and his dog could tell you how United were going to set up on a football pitch.

What these two did were adjustments to their fundamental philosophies, so that they could deal with the particularities of the PL and the demands of their era. While you can very well argue that Pep has been giving an unlimited credit card at City, he still had to come up with a new structure, the one with the FBs tucking inside and operating as agile/mobile midfielders, to maintain his high-line and push his more creative players further up in the attacking third. You can also argue that Klopp got lucky with Robertson and TAA, but his possession game has improved greatly over the years and his Liverpool side can create overloads everywhere in the attacking half. That's after he spent a couple of years watching his team's performances deteriorating in the second half of the season, simply because there was no fuel left in the tank. They spent the money, true enough, but they also found working solutions to their problems. And, frankly, isn't that why the best managers in the world are being paid the big salaries for?

The new sensation on the Caf is the defensive midfielder. As if signing Rice would change the fact that we have only one player, Luke Shaw, that can actually move the ball forward with purpose in the first phase of build-up. As if having a new Carrick would make up for the fact that we don't work hard, off the ball, to win second balls in order to stay high up the pitch and pin the opponent down.

Solskjaer has a system and he also has implemented several, what do they call them... "patterns of play". He's not a stickler for rigid structures, like Pep, and he's also not as gung-ho as Klopp in his approach. There's a flexibility in his way of thinking that can work in our favour (it has in some big games and it has also helped him when he was with his back to the wall), but can become detrimental too. We let Lukaku go (fine with that), spent two seasons utilizing either Martial or Rashford up front, as players who would start centrally and move to the left for others to attack the box, to revert to a system where everyone is trying to find Ronaldo in the box. We say we want to play with a high line, and we break the bank for Maguire. We want to use the wide channels to advance the ball, and we sign a FB that isn't good at that. Then we were crying out for a new CB, and now that we have him, we want Trippier too. What kind of defensive midfielder do we want? A Carrick-like player in a midfield of two means that we'll use the low-block more often than not. But isn't that the type of football that turned Mourinho into a managerial dinosaur? A better version of McT/Fred? This surely must lead to the "3" and the "1", in our 4231, working their socks off without the ball to regain possession and play high octane football in tight spaces, but it's clearly not what we've been seeing on the pitch.

I'll reserve my judgement for the end of the season, but it's not a good sign when, three years into his tenure, when we're bad, we look utterly hopeless on the pitch. He says he wants to play with pace and power and we still spend entire games moving the ball sideways at a snail's pace. That would suggest that is not the absence of a Plan B that's hurting us.
Fundamental Philosophies is exactly the right term. Pep, Guardiola, Sir Alex all had/have a fundamental philosophy. They dont need a plan B they just tweak what they are already doing. That means they can rotate players but fundamentally those players are doing the same job. This is evident not only in the starting team but in the substitutions and the recruitment. We seem to buy players that we have no clue if they fit or not. Like you say we want to push up but buy Maguire, want attacking fullbacks but buy Wan B. But its also the Donny situation. Its the Pogba situation. Its the Martial and Rashford situations. Its Lingard, Mata, Periera. Its the midfield. It goes on and on.

So the million dollar question is - What is Oles fundamental Philosophy. Its not nothing. He's not just winging it. Its something that's for sure. But what is it!
 

RUCK4444

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The decision to park the bus against Young Boys, from 35 mins on was shocking. Taking off DVB, Bruno and Ronaldo. Terrible. Shocking choices. But more than that, he wasn't able to motivate the players on the pitch. Any other team in the same situation City, Liverpool or Chelsea. They would go on to win that game 2 or 3 nil. We threw the towel in.
DVB, Bruno and Ronaldo are all relatively weak defensively.

It’s hardly ‘shocking’ to take them off.

People have totally ignored just how well YB played, they did everything you need to do against a 10 man side, played very quickly with intensity, stretched the play wide and really pushed up.

They absolutely played their part in us inevitably having to drop back.

We should have coped better yes, but aside from Jesse inexplicably assisting their forward with a pass as weak as my 3 year old could muster, until that point we kept them overall to shots outside of the area and we’re pretty much seeing out the draw without much drama.
 

Bobade

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Did he? Last I remember he was at West Ham :lol:

Wasn’t it a mid season takeover when they were pretty much already toast though?
Yeah, it sort of was, but I chose not to highlight that part as it wasn't part of my narrative haha.

But still, I think they did have plenty of opportunity for a relegation specialist to save them.
 

Zaphod2319

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Can you give us a link showing Klopp, Pep and Tuchel explaining their tactics (for the world to know).
You honestly cannot stop Tuchel from talking tactics. He does not preview what he will use before a game, but he is an absolute football nerd who will go on forever about tactics.

About halfway through this interview he talks about why he is using the formation he is using at Chelsea. He often emphasizes the formation is not important, it is the players know what their responsibilities are in attack and defence and that allows them to make decisions on the pitch.

 

padzilla

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I think the style he wants to play doesn't suit the personnel we have if honest. We don't have enough workers in the midfield engine room, there is too much reliance on flair players to produce but when the opposition get the ball those same players are not adept at pressing.
Part of me is wondering if we should look at playing a 4-4-2 diamond with Ronaldo up top and Bruno directly behind him and then a more narrow midfield triangle, a bit like Zidane did with Ronaldo.
Or even an aggressive 3-5-2 with plenty of bodies in the middle of the pitch?
 

E-mal

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He is not good enough, that much is obvious in how we concede too many chances against decent but not so great teams.
He has persistently failed to improve how we play out from the back and breakdown packed defences.
Of course, credit is due on how he managed the mess that Mourinho left the club and some decent transfers he has done.
The point is though if he has what it takes to deliver at the big stage and give this team an identity in order to prevent the inconsistent performances, the evidence is that he is not up to the job.
 

padzilla

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Wow I heard it all now
I wouldn't be surprised if we hear people asking can Ronaldo, Fernandes and Pogba play in the same side sooner rather than later?
Obviously the proof will be later in the season when the new guys have had months to bed in and we've taken on some notable opponents.
 

Real Name

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He sets up well most of the times or often but the problem is he isnt the best when things go wrong and he needs to change the plan he had before the game. In game management is still a big problem. Yesterday we had a red but he made a right mess after it and that mess was going on till the final whistle.
 

Real Name

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I refuse to believe this squad is not good enough to win either EPL or even CL. United has the most squad depth of all teams, yet we have a PE teacher for a manager. Compare him with Pep, Klopp and Tuchel and it becomes evidently clear this guy wouldn't win a thing with prime Xavi and Iniesta in the side.
His fanboys and class of 92 friends in media will still big him up and shift the blame elsewhere. I wish United board had the acumen and decisiveness of Chelsea.
Can we stop with this stuff please, its daft and childish.
 
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I think the style he wants to play doesn't suit the personnel we have if honest. We don't have enough workers in the midfield engine room, there is too much reliance on flair players to produce but when the opposition get the ball those same players are not adept at pressing.
Part of me is wondering if we should look at playing a 4-4-2 diamond with Ronaldo up top and Bruno directly behind him and then a more narrow midfield triangle, a bit like Zidane did with Ronaldo.
Or even an aggressive 3-5-2 with plenty of bodies in the middle of the pitch?
Shaw and Dalot WBs?
 

Wheato

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DVB, Bruno and Ronaldo are all relatively weak defensively.

It’s hardly ‘shocking’ to take them off.

People have totally ignored just how well YB played, they did everything you need to do against a 10 man side, played very quickly with intensity, stretched the play wide and really pushed up.

They absolutely played their part in us inevitably having to drop back.

We should have coped better yes, but aside from Jesse inexplicably assisting their forward with a pass as weak as my 3 year old could muster, until that point we kept them overall to shots outside of the area and we’re pretty much seeing out the draw without much drama.
Nonsense. They had 9 CL debutees in their side. They play in a pub league and their manager was sacked by Huddersfield. There is no way that a team of our stature and talent should have been parking the bus against this level of opposition. 10 men or not.

Put City in the same situation and they win three nil. We basically gave them the middle of the park, and played with a back 5. Fred and Pogba were completely overrun. In the first half, VDB made 22 out of 23 successful passes. More than any other player. Then we take him off and cannot get out of our own half.

We gave that game to them on a plate.
 

Jibbs

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Can we stop with this stuff please, its daft and childish.
There is no other way to describe a man completely out of his depth and his loyalist supporters blinded by his love.
This is a guy who couldn't have landed a job in Championship on his own merit, got the reins of one of the biggest clubs in world on a platter.

Even you and I wouldn't do much worse with the talent at his disposal.