Imo its quite obvious what will happen to the midfield. If Pogba stays, then at best we would go for a cheap punt that's not the obvious starter. If Pogba leaves then we'd go for a guaranteed starter in midfield
Are we a CDM short of being an elite team?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We needed a Matic replacement the season he signed for us. He can't be trusted to play more than half a season before he plays like he's dead and our best football usually comes with him healthy and playing well.
Pogba-Bruno behind Cavani with a strong defenisive midfielder might work. If we are not getting a DM then better sell Pogba as he cant play with SMT or Fred
Midfield area is key. Relying on MCFRED and old man Matic doesnt win you trophies. We need strength in depth, no point keeping VDB if manager doesnt trust him.
Pogba, does he still wanna go?if so let him go same with Lingard.
Pogba, does he still wanna go?if so let him go same with Lingard.
I don’t think there’s been any credible links or even much talk of us looking for a DM has there? It seems like we’re prioritising Sancho, a CB and then possibly a right back as backup and that’s all. So I believe the answer to the question of what Ole is going to do about the midfield is absolutely nothing.
It seems likely that Ole will give Garner a chance this season, going with McFred and Matic for the most part and bedding Garner in.
Emptying the warchest on Sancho and Varane (and Grealish, if we sell Pogba) and sticking with what we've got on the books already and seeing whether Garner can develop into the Rice (or whoever we fancy this week) isn't all that insane
Emptying the warchest on Sancho and Varane (and Grealish, if we sell Pogba) and sticking with what we've got on the books already and seeing whether Garner can develop into the Rice (or whoever we fancy this week) isn't all that insane
How many starts in the league do you reckon Garner will get? As a comparison DVB got 3 with two coming in May.
I think it is pretty insane to be honest.
I would consider Sancho and Varane unlikely based on experience with our transfer activities. Adding Grealish is never going to happen, because he will be way to expensive. Pogba has one year left on his contract, nobody will pay north of 40-45 million pounds for him (not saying he isn't talented enough to warrant that outlay but in my eyes there are only three teams going for him: Juve (tight c*nts), Real and PSG. And with Poch, I don't even expect them to go for him and with Zidane gone, Real hasn't gotten more likely.)
I could live with us not going for a midfielder, but I am not sure if our management team has it in them to increase the output of the current set of players in midfield by fine tuning them.
It’s hard to say what will happen, but since we’re all speculating about what might happen if we can allow ourselves to believe we might bring in Sancho and Varane I would say that’s a job finally well done by club management.
Pogba is its own saga. If he wants to go I’d at least want to explore the possibility of Grealish.
United need a top quality DM that can get the best out of Pogba + a top quality RW. We're currently utilising 2 men (McT-Fred) to do a 1 man role
Sancho and varane/torres/CB k certain and they do address two critical starting positions. Fairly obvious we need a DM but the club seem to have put that down the ladder till pogba situation is sorted.
Don't think we are at all in for rice, so it'll be one of the European options, if at all. Still believe McFred will be starters next season and DM and striker will be priority for next season.
Don't think we are at all in for rice, so it'll be one of the European options, if at all. Still believe McFred will be starters next season and DM and striker will be priority for next season.
I feel like we’ve been talking about “promoting Garner” for about 3 years now. Is he actually ready?
He's ready to play in PL. Not ready to challenge for a PL winners medal.
Maybe a loan to someone like Norwich or Brentford?
The Camavinga links are great to see as I think he is potentially perfect as one of the 2 midfielders behind Rashford, Bruno, Sancho and whoever the striker (Greenwood?) is long term. That's a very attack minded front 4 and the wingers especially you can't rely on for their defensive output so you have to balance it. Camavinga is the perfect mixture on the left side, and then for me we'd ideally get another solid all rounder, but more importantly one who covers the space really well on the right and is positionally solid/doesn't lose it recklessly. A safe and secure player. Someone like Rice I would have no problems with as I think it would make us solid as feck and we'd be good enough on the ball between Rice and Camavinga to bring it up. Or a Jorginho type. Very different players but importantly they hold that middle area of the pitch and don't lose the ball carelessly, don't make bursts forward or vacate the middle all the time and know the importance of just staying in position sometimes. Witsel another example.
That to me is a team that can potentially challenge on all fronts, provided it has the right depth.
Greenwood
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Camavinga Rice
Shaw Maguire Varane Wan Bissaka
Henderson
Rashford Bruno Sancho
Camavinga Rice
Shaw Maguire Varane Wan Bissaka
Henderson
That to me is a team that can potentially challenge on all fronts, provided it has the right depth.
But not unless he renews his contract. Last season Ole kept Williams as a reserve for AWB but Williams hardly got any game time. Given Matic and Garner are the only 2 proper CDMs I bet Ole will keep Garner as Matic's reserve. Especially as Garner need not take up a squad place (being U21 and "home-grown").
I can't see McTominay and Fred playing together as much as last season, if at all. Their combined passing won't do. I think Matic - Camavinga - Fernandes would work, but I doubt Matic can play for 90 minutes and definitely can't play more than once per week; in which case, Garner subs or plays the games Matic is rested for?
Would still have DeGea as number one myself and Cavani starting, but it does look a well baloanced side. I just think even with sales which I dont see us making many of for different reasons, Rice is very expensive though I rate him so maybe unrealistic in this window.
I think a deep playmaker seems the right fit to partner Camavinga, Carrick would be perfect if he was 15 years younger
If Pogba was positionally aware and did the defensive work he would be perfect too, but he isnt for me.Two names that do spring to mind.
The obvious one is Locatelli, style, price, age...I cant confess to seeing much of him before this tournament, but everything does seem to fit. I just dont see him leaving Italy myself just as top talents there rarely do until older and go to the Milans or Juve.
The other name and again to be honest, not seen much of him either.....would be Gravenburch. Again its a risk siging another teen to partner an 18year old. But from what I have seen and read and the inveitable youtube clips. He does seem to have a bit of Pogba about him on the ball, but he does seem to have the positional play and versatility of Ajax drummed n to him as well. From what I ave seen he looks very technically prepared and strong runnign with the ball like Pogba, he seems to hold his position well and be mature with that for his age and also a bullet of a shot like Pogba from around the box. The few games I have seen, I havemt really seen him passing the ball much more than 5/10yards, does he have a good range of passing in his game? I would happily have a wekaer version of Pogba with the ball at 19 if he has more positional awareness and work in he defensive side of the game than Pogba. WOuld like to knwo views of people that watch him regularly?
Wasn’t Molde a 4-3-3 team under Ole?
I think we need a DM to unlock the midfield puzzle. Once Matic got too old, the balance of the midfield went all wrong and we end up playing two players in the deep midfield position to make up for the fact that none of them is really defensively minded. Stick a proper DM in our midfield and we can play a 4-3-3 with all sorts of combinations - from DM-Pogba-Bruno for a very attack minded midfield through to DM-Fred-McTominay for a combative midfield that can see out a game, with lots of combinations in between.
What's odd is that there's a lot of decent DMs around at the moment, I'm surprised we're not being linked with more of them. The only player I see us linked to is Rice, who I like, but isn't world class and won't be cheap since he'll have the English tax applied. Certainly I'd hate to wait another whole season just to get him.
What's odd is that there's a lot of decent DMs around at the moment, I'm surprised we're not being linked with more of them. The only player I see us linked to is Rice, who I like, but isn't world class and won't be cheap since he'll have the English tax applied. Certainly I'd hate to wait another whole season just to get him.
‐-----------‐----------- Cavani ------------------------
Pog/Rash -------- Bruno ------------- Sancho
-------------- Fred ----- Cama/Mct --------------
Shaw ----- Maguire ----- Varane ----- AWB
I imagine this will be what we look like.
We'll have to replace Pogba next summer (pipedream Grealish) and I reckon Rashford will adapt his game a little to fill in as a 9 on occasion (unless Martial starts to perform) as it would be unrealistic for Cavani/Greenwood to lead the line for the entire season.
I don't think we are ever going to be in for the holding midfielder type of player.
Pog/Rash -------- Bruno ------------- Sancho
-------------- Fred ----- Cama/Mct --------------
Shaw ----- Maguire ----- Varane ----- AWB
I imagine this will be what we look like.
We'll have to replace Pogba next summer (pipedream Grealish) and I reckon Rashford will adapt his game a little to fill in as a 9 on occasion (unless Martial starts to perform) as it would be unrealistic for Cavani/Greenwood to lead the line for the entire season.
I don't think we are ever going to be in for the holding midfielder type of player.
Ver
Very lazy post and how about posting this on Ole out thread. What about Pep. He will just buy better forwad and talks will go on that he is greatest manager.
I don't think I've seen one deep lying playmaker type linked to us this summer. A Carrick-type of player. Which is exactly what we need. There's a lot of bravado being projected (presumably by the press) about our intentions, and we see this alleged change to a 433, which is untested with Bruno, and if it features Pogba too, we really are in need of a defensively and technically sound midfielder who can progress play from deep. The closest I see in the league to that is Jorginho, which is presumably why Pep wanted him back then.
Am I missing anyone? If Pogba goes, we could really do with signing two midfielders and changing how we play. Sancho (and Varane and Trippier too) won't change how we progress the ball from the short goal kicks, as it will be down to Maguire and Shaw instead of going through the middle. How would that work: Pogba - Fred - Bruno, two of whom want to play in the final third and are quite risky players by nature, supported by a high energy player who likes to hassle but doesn't have the range of passing or the composure to take the ball under pressure and break the lines. Same with McTominay, only more risky.
Without addressing this positional weakness, Matic would need to have Pep's elixir on tap to rejuvenate his body or Garner make a major step up.
- We've been tentatively linked with Camavinga, who is reported to favour a move to the financially strangled clubs in Spain. I guess if that's true, were he to join, he wouldn't really be the profile of player we want - someone hungry to play for the club, but rather someone hoping to eventually move on.
- We've been linked with an audacious bid for Goretzka, taking advantage of that contract stalemate with Bayern. Great player, but quite an unlikely situation.
- There's the Saul situation, but he's being linked to a host of clubs, and is a more conventional box to box engine player, than that connector between defense and midfield.
- And there are very hazy links to Rice, who is probably the closest type to what we need, but probably not the fix that is required, if we're only getting one midfielder.
- And Pogba is rumoured to have rejected a new mega contract.
Am I missing anyone? If Pogba goes, we could really do with signing two midfielders and changing how we play. Sancho (and Varane and Trippier too) won't change how we progress the ball from the short goal kicks, as it will be down to Maguire and Shaw instead of going through the middle. How would that work: Pogba - Fred - Bruno, two of whom want to play in the final third and are quite risky players by nature, supported by a high energy player who likes to hassle but doesn't have the range of passing or the composure to take the ball under pressure and break the lines. Same with McTominay, only more risky.
Without addressing this positional weakness, Matic would need to have Pep's elixir on tap to rejuvenate his body or Garner make a major step up.
Find some way to make Pogba understand that he has to be a better defender to warrant a regular starting spot.
This is exactly what we’ve done wrong from the start with Pogba.
He’s not Kante, never has been and never will be. He simply needs midfield partners who can defend well enough, we don’t have those.
It is not all about defending. It is about putting some efforts and work rate when needed.
Tbf, he was doing it at the end of the last season. But, with Pogba, you never know when he will just stop.
International matches just don't have same quality or intensity like in PL/CL games. It is not easy to compare.
We need more than just a Carrick type midfielder. I don't know if you guys remember, but we didn't dominate games through possession even with Carrick. Carrick who was a superb passer, and often broke lines from deep in 2013, didn't have the elite technique to deal with a press, and wasn't mobile enough to demand the ball throughout the middle and bail out his teammates. He had to play it smart through his positioning to make up for his lack of mobility in that year, a bit similar to Matic, but a bit better positional sense (with better passing too obviously).
I remember how Real dominated possession in the first leg with Shinji, RvP being the standouts in handling the press.
We still lack that midfielder. A player like Carrick (especially in 2013's version) would be a great step in the right direction though. No question. Carrick was dominant in 2013.
Just look at how Barca dominated with Busquets, Xavi, and Iniesta. Real with Modric, Kroos, and Casemiro. Or when they had Modric and Xabi.
He seriously lacks defensive focus. He’ll not track his man or will make bad tackles and give away free kicks. I don’t think there’s a player on the planet who alone could make up for his defensive liabilities. Kante needs help when playing for France with Pogba, he doesn’t do it alone. Pogba can do it, but frequently just switches off and creates issues for all those around him.
Honestly don’t think Ole sees midfield as an issue somehow. If he did then it feels like that would be an area we’d have been trying very hard to strengthen this summer. Instead we’ve seen very weak links to a few players in that position and it’s unlikely that we’ll add anyone there. I think he is happy with McFred and will only look to add if Pogba leaves.
Whatever shortcomings Ole may have, being satisfied with a mediocre squad is not one of them. I think it’s only a matter of time and priorities.
Defense is the bigger priority. Once you've replaced Lindelof with a better defender, we'll not be forced to play Fred and Scott in every game.
We need someone to add quality in building play up from deep areas. If we continue to rely on Mctominay and Fred for this we're not winning any major trophies.
I don't think we can play a any midfield with Bruno and Pogba unless we get a Kante and Pirlo rolled into one player to be the deepest.
If Pogba leaves, we still cannot play a 433 with Bruno in the mid 3, it has to be a 4231 where we can get a deep lying playmaker and play him with Fred, Bruno stays at #10. I don't know who fits that profile, surely it's not Saul or Goretzka, maybe Rice.
If Pogba leaves, we still cannot play a 433 with Bruno in the mid 3, it has to be a 4231 where we can get a deep lying playmaker and play him with Fred, Bruno stays at #10. I don't know who fits that profile, surely it's not Saul or Goretzka, maybe Rice.
I think you’re severely underestimating Bruno’ adaptability, he can play deeper. He’d be pretty decent supporting Sancho & AWB on the right of a centre 3.
Midfield is the heartbeat of all top teams and we must get it right this season or we can forget about winning the league.
A top DM playmaker is needed in this window.
A top DM playmaker is needed in this window.
VDB and Bruno to play as 2 of the three in a 433 midfield. A DM brought in to do fernandinho style "tactical fouling".
if our intention is to play 433 and win the title, the midfield right now is complete shambles. Pogba, Herrera, Matic as a midfield 3 sounds so balanced on paper. The playmaker, the harrier and the DM. Fast forward to today, Bruno is a liability possession wise and not a CM, Pogba leaving, Matic in his zimmer frame, VDB who I don't really know about apart from the fact he is not trusted, Fred a decent harrier and MCT who is not good enough.
Vdb needs to massively step up and both Pogba and Matic need to be replaced.
Vdb needs to massively step up and both Pogba and Matic need to be replaced.
I disagree, he knows where the issues are, but he keeps his cards close to his chest. He also knew RW and CB were more important positions to fill. We have an abundance of midfielders, despite none of them being the top class player we need. It’s easy to throw out names left and right when you’re posting on an internet forum, but managing a squad, balancing a wage bill, dealing with the board, none of this stuff is easy. Absolutely no chance imo that Ole is “happy” with McFred, but he knows it’s his safest option to not get done 6-1 by Spurs.
I don't think that's a correct observation. Just look at City, they usually play Rodri or Fernandinho as a single pivot. Since ever. But surely not because Laporte/Stones/Otamendi/Kompany/Ake you name it, were so great defenders. Same goes for Chelsea where there are no real standout CB's but they still can make it work. Obviously very good defenders will help a lot. But same can be said the other way around, for example at Leicester, where Ndidi works in front of the defense to great effect.
At the end of the day, there is no single easy fix to this issue. Our opponents play together as a team, we have to do this as well. The management has to find a way to make it work - and in relation to who we can aquire this plan has to be adjusted.
This sounds like you are overestimating Bruno's adaptability based... actually what are you basing it on? I can understand being hopefull, that a player with Brunos dedication will find a way to excel in a different role. But being hopeful is a risky route. Nothing in the past suggests that Bruno can play deeper without taking a serious hit contribution wise. I know he played more in midfield often at Sporting but this is a different team and a different league. And his stellar contributions at United might originate from the fact, that we gave him the freedom to operate mostly in offense and take away big chunks of defensive responsibility. And we can see with Pogba what a burden such responsibility can be and which effect it can have on the overall output of a player.
What you suggest might turn out in us transforming an 8.5/10 offensive playmaker into a 6.5/10 box-to-box midfielder. And for what? Just to accomodate Pogba or Donny into the starting eleven. While still being reliable on the aquisition of an almost supernatural being to secure such kind of midfield and support the (even with a double pivot) weak and slow transition.
Have a look at last years table, despite us being upgradeable in consistent high-value chance creation, we managed to score plenty of goals. We have exceptional players in attack, we have to find ways to support them systemwise to create good chances on a more reliable basis and by giving them a plan B. But there is simply no apparent need to enhance the attack. And still we already have done by adding Sancho. There is no need to push more attack-minded players into the team while weakening an already weak defense.
This issue is why i dont trust Ole, and dont have high hopes for next season. He can buy all the Varanes, Haalands and Mbappes of this world but will never succeed unless he fix the mess we have in the midtfield. Up to this point a backup RB seems to have higher priority, which tells it all.
It wouldn't matter if our back four consisted of Maldini, Beckenbauer, Baresi and Thuram, if we set up our front four in the same way we would still require both Fred and McTominay in midfield.