What is the solution to our midfield?

[Lentwood]

We need to go back to basics and that means starting with three midfielders who can run, tackle, defend and press. That is the bare minimum.

We have seen in tonight’s games what happens when a team plays a high-line and doesn’t press effectively. We also saw this last week with City vs Leicester.

Most fans will always blame the individuals because they lack the footballing nous to really understand what’s going on. Therefore, you will see fans criticising TAA, Gomez, Mendy, Shaw & Maguire after those results - and there is an element of truth in that as some of the individual errors are unforgivable.

However, more telling in all three of those games was the lack of pressing from the forwards/midfields. The most average attack will embarrass the best defenders if they are caught high up the pitch with no pressure on the ball. That’s why the old saying about “defending as a team” has never been truer.

Want we can’t have is Pogba lolloping around aimlessly, leaving huge gaps and isolating Matic (who is already slow). We don’t have the luxury of having room for an AM who only has to attack without defending. We can’t have Rashford, Martial and Greenwood switching off when the opposition have the ball.

Next game, i’d be tempted to go

GK - Henderson
RWB - AWB
CB - Lindelof
CB - Maguire
CB - Bailly
LWB - Shaw
CM - Matic
CM - Fernandes
CM - Van de Beek
ST - Greenwood
ST - Rashford

It’s not the prettiest team and it might be attritional but we’ve conceded 11 goals against Palace, Brighton and Spurs and it could have been 15/16 quite easily. That’s not down to personnel, as such, that’s tactical. A back four of Championship players shouldn’t be giving up the number of chances we give up, given the right support and the right system

Fact is, Ole is fine when playing counter attacking football but he’s yet to find a way to make us a cohesive front-foot attacking unit without leaving us wildly exposed at the back

 

[golden_blunder]

For me Pogba has to be sacrificed to get a midfield that functions as a unit, the sum of all parts

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We could try playing the midfielder we bought this summer instead of a criminally poor Pogba at the moment.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

For me Pogba has to be sacrificed to get a midfield that functions as a unit, the sum of all parts

Might be tough getting a good fee for him if he continues trotting out performances like the ones he has this season.

 

[NoPace]

Surely the solution is shunting Pogba out left like at Juve?

-------------Rashford--------Greenwood
Pogba------Bruno---------------------------
----------VDB---Fred------------------------

and when Martial is back or Cavani is the 9 then Rashford can play on the right.

 

[RedNed77]

I've said it before and I'll say it again our best from was post Bruno signing and pre lockdown i.e. when there was no Pogba

Defensive shield of any two of McTominay/Fred and Matic behind the usual front 4

This, McTom and Fred are flawed but for some reason they seem to gel well together and cover each other’s flaws. The answer is these two plus one of Bruno/VdB/NewGuy.

Personally Pogba is sellable for me if we can use those funds for a better midfielder. He’s been pretty shit since coming back from lockdown.

Pogba is technically a very good midfielder but we can’t seem to get a tune out of him. He’s probably worth more to us in terms of a transfer fee than he is as a player.

 

[AneRu]

Drop Pogba and Matic and bring in McFred in a double pivot behind one of Bruno or DVB. No more sacred cows or we will be in for a long season.

 

[Reiver]

Plenty on here saying it: drop Pogba, play 2 of Fred, Martin and McTominay. Work out where VDB fits in that. It'll be unspectacular but we just need a functioning midfield right now.

 

[united for life]

For me Pogba has to be sacrificed to get a midfield that functions as a unit, the sum of all parts

Agreed. Drop pogba. Hasnt been doing much.

 

[Icemav]

I wrote a bit about this last week and was rightly called out for making huge assumptions as to why we acquired certain players and positions they were intended to play and why it may have changed.

If this was the intended plan it was a big mistake. Ole and Ed.

I said before that Pogba can go unless he is a rotation with Bruno. This idea that he can control a midfield and game with Matic is absurd.

Right now we have an old holding mid in Matic, x2 box2box in Fred and Mctominay, Pogba who is a midfield luxury and needs the game controlled behind him, Bruno who is a 10, a Donny who is a swiss army knife but seems presently to be cover for Bruno.

A mess. You can cook up a few band aid solutions and get some good performances but still a mess.

We needed holding mids and DMs during the window. Not that my opinion matters. I really think that Pogba and Bruno shouldnt be on the pitch together unless we setup to play on the counter. Pogba is not a dlp no matter how much we play him there. Similarly as profligate as Bruno. Donny signing pointless in this context however it was pointed out to me that this was not what management intended. Even more worrying. They really really want Pogba to develop into a dlp. Which is like wanting Bruno to develop into a DM. Never in a million years.

We needed very strong management.

What a pickle.

 

[Foxbatt]

We need Matic there anyway as neither Fred nor Scott is good enough alone there. Plus we need their energy somewhere else. The best is to with 4 midfield players of Matic, Fred, DVB and Bruno against Newcastle. Play Rashford and Greenwood up top but closer to each other so they can support each other. Get us to play quicker and that means players need to know where to pass and move.

 

[Jericho]

........Fred.......
.....VDB..Pogba..
......Bruno.....
Rash/Mason.......martial..

At the very least you'd need to replace Pogba there with someone like McTominay.

 

[Jibbs]

Sell Pogba and get Ndidi in Jan or next season.

 

[TehRed]

I'd go with Fred and VdB as a two behind Bruno.

Pogba can rotate with Bruno, he's better playing in the more advanced role.

Matic can rotate with Fred, he's knocking on now and could use the rest.

McSauce can rotate with VdB as that is arguably his best position to be in too.

 

[Roboc7]

We need to go back to basics and that means starting with three midfielders who can run, tackle, defend and press. That is the bare minimum.

We have seen in tonight’s games what happens when a team plays a high-line and doesn’t press effectively. We also saw this last week with City vs Leicester.

Most fans will always blame the individuals because they lack the footballing nous to really understand what’s going on. Therefore, you will see fans criticising TAA, Gomez, Mendy, Shaw & Maguire after those results - and there is an element of truth in that as some of the individual errors are unforgivable.

However, more telling in all three of those games was the lack of pressing from the forwards/midfields. The most average attack will embarrass the best defenders if they are caught high up the pitch with no pressure on the ball. That’s why the old saying about “defending as a team” has never been truer.

Want we can’t have is Pogba lolloping around aimlessly, leaving huge gaps and isolating Matic (who is already slow). We don’t have the luxury of having room for an AM who only has to attack without defending. We can’t have Rashford, Martial and Greenwood switching off when the opposition have the ball.

Next game, i’d be tempted to go

GK - Henderson
RWB - AWB
CB - Lindelof
CB - Maguire
CB - Bailly
LWB - Shaw
CM - Matic
CM - Fernandes
CM - Van de Beek
ST - Greenwood
ST - Rashford

It’s not the prettiest team and it might be attritional but we’ve conceded 11 goals against Palace, Brighton and Spurs and it could have been 15/16 quite easily. That’s not down to personnel, as such, that’s tactical. A back four of Championship players shouldn’t be giving up the number of chances we give up, given the right support and the right system

Fact is, Ole is fine when playing counter attacking football but he’s yet to find a way to make us a cohesive front-foot attacking unit without leaving us wildly exposed at the back

Returning to the defensive, counter attacking football probably stops the rot but won’t save Ole’s job. Plodding along to finish outside top four is all it will do but it maybe is best option for a manager as limited as Ole.

 

[HowYouDoin]

We need energy and mobility there. We looked excellent against Sevilla with Fred, Pogba and Bruno. I think we would look even better with DVB instead of Pogba.

So yeah its about the personnel at this point.
Just too slow. Matic and Pogba should be replaced with Fred and DVB.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

A proper coach

So you've had it with Carrick and company?

 

[Jibbs]

We need energy and mobility there. We looked excellent against Sevilla with Fred, Pogba and Bruno. I think we would look even better with DVB instead of Pogba.

So yeah its about the personnel at this point.
Just too slow. Matic and Pogba should be replaced with Fred and DVB.

Totally agree, even McT can be used in place of Fred and VdB. Pogba should be the last guy only ahead of Matic to be selected.

 

[ben.heff10]

I've defended him for years but I'm starting to turn on Pogba a little bit - while he's undoubtedly a brilliant player, he just doesn't fit into any type of system we've tried and requires the team be built around him. The squad we have now is much different than the squad Pogba came into. Having Cavani, VDB, Fred and hopefully one of Martial/Rashford/Greenwood on the bench (provided we sign a RW) on the bench represents quality squad depth. This isn't Manchester United starring Paul Pogba anymore as it was a couple years ago, and while he's still probably our most talented player on paper, he hasn't shown it nearly enough in his 4+ years here.

For now though - Matic looks knackered again so I'd save him for the big games. Against Newcastle I hope to see Ole line up with Bruno behind Cavani with Fred + McTominay in a double pivot. Fred and McTom play well together and offer energy in the middle of the park - something we sorely lacked today with Pogba and Matic. I think VDB will be fantastic for us but I have a feeling we'll probably try to integrate him into the starting lineup more often when we start picking up a couple wins in the next month or so.

 

[Icemav]

We need energy and mobility there. We looked excellent against Sevilla with Fred, Pogba and Bruno. I think we would look even better with DVB instead of Pogba.

So yeah its about the personnel at this point.
Just too slow. Matic and Pogba should be replaced with Fred and DVB.

Personnel and tactics. Matching how Ole wants to setup/play with the players he is selecting (from whats available). Looks very very naïve. Now either he had to tear the squad up in the off season or he needs to thoroughly rethink how he is going to deploy his resources.

Sorry to say but Ole is looking a bit too much of a company man. Whatever Mou's faults he would not stand for it. Again I am assuming that Ole knows what the problems are..... worst case scenario is that he doesn't or didn't prior to the season restarting.

 

[Nep77]

So where are all those People questioning where will Thiago start in our midfield. You don't need to be expert to see Pogba won't work at that position. He has zero awareness, absolute shit positioning, inconsistent short passing play to keep hold of the possession, lacks in speed of thought, no ability in controlling the tempo and to add to that he needs to do his usual flicks and tricks infront of defence where there is major danger for counter attack. He got to play up the field or out wide to atleast not be a liability to us. I don't know why Ole has abandoned Matic- Fred combo which was doing very well. That should be the base of the midfield for now and Matic should have been upgraded this summer but instead we went and brought a attacking Midfielder which wasn't the priority. Another major issue apart from personal is the shape. Matic drops deeper and is on the same line with CB and than Pogba is left alone in the middle with Bruno playing on the same line as Martial. Why are our midfielder so much apart and for what reason? Persistence of this has been doing my head since the restart. It looks like whole plan is to pass it from Matic to Pogba and than straight to one of front four with no intention to hold on the ball. It worked for sometime but team found the way to counter it by pressing with numbers on pogba. Bruno-Matic-Fred is the three I will go for now with Pogba as alternative for Rashford and Bruno.

 

[Icemav]

So where are all those People questioning where will Thiago start in our midfield. You don't need to be expert to see Pogba won't work at that position. He has zero awareness, absolute shit positioning, inconsistent short passing play to keep hold of the possession, lacks in speed of thought, no ability in controlling the tempo and to add to that he needs to do his usual flicks and tricks infront of defence where there is major danger for counter attack. He got to play up the field or out wide to atleast not be a liability to us. I don't know why Ole has abandoned Matic- Fred combo which was doing very well. That should be the base of the midfield for now and Matic should have been upgraded this summer but instead we went and brought a attacking Midfielder which wasn't the priority. Another major issue apart from personal is the shape. Matic drops deeper and is on the same line with CB and than Pogba is left alone in the middle with Bruno playing on the same line as Martial. Why are our midfielder so much apart and for what reason? Persistence of this has been doing my head since the restart. It looks like whole plan is to pass it from Matic to Pogba and than straight to one of front four with no intention to hold on the ball. It worked for sometime but team found the way to counter it by pressing with numbers on pogba. Bruno-Matic-Fred is the three I will go for now with Pogba as alternative for Rashford and Bruno.

Spot on. As was the case the Summer before that. Long term issue is rearing its head big time. Sloooooooooow motion train crash. Trying to shoe horn Pogba into the side and pretend he can remotely do the job of a Thiago is laughable. Agree with everything you write. Now its sticky tape and band aid time for the rest of the season. Hope we find something that clicks but sadly our results by then may put us in a massive hole again.

 

[jem]

It might not be practical given their status/salaries etc., but I'd be tempted to have Bruno, Pogba and VDB battle it out for that one position, and have that player play in midfield with Fred and Matic.

 

[RikRuud]

I would have Fred in the midfield in place of Pogba as his qualities compliment Matic and Bruno much more.

 

[Icemav]

It might not be practical given their status/salaries etc., but I'd be tempted to have Bruno, Pogba and VDB battle it out for that one position, and have that player play in midfield with Fred and Matic.

We need strong management and not give a shit about who should play based on wages. I think you are right that this is a sensible way of approaching it which is why I was desperate to sign DM and holding mids this Summer. Donny may prove to be effective in another position, and Pogba as an impact sub played deeper. But for now I think it makes complete sense to view things this way.

Poor Ole. Going to have to face the music. C'est la vie.

 

[bond19821982]

Change to diamond. Or 4222 - the Southampton or Leipzig formation. Unfortunately Ole can't do it. Get Hassenhutl or Marco Rose or Naggelsman.

Didn't chelsea play a diamond in 2000s ?

 

[calodo2003]

Get past the thought that Pogba will suddenly become world class & deserve a place constantly in the side.

 

[Red_toad]

Solution is don't play Pogba and Matic together. Pogba does not track runners and Matic isn't energetic enough to cover for him. Squad is a mess and I don't know how Ole is going to deal with it.

 

[hungrywing]

First step: remove the 290k/w 'omg he's such a leader' dragging the rest of the team down.

Also, don't forget our midfield is fine for top four contention. Start Fred in place of Pogba and yesterday doesn't happen.

 

[christy87]

First step: remove the 290k/w 'omg he's such a leader' dragging the rest of the team down.

Also, don't forget our midfield is fine for top four contention. Start Fred in place of Pogba and yesterday doesn't happen.

It makes sense brings balance to the midfield also how the feck did Everton get Allan without us not even trying

 

[hungrywing]

It makes sense brings balance to the midfield also how the feck did Everton get Allan without us not even trying

Maybe the age thing (Allan's).

Also, in Woodward's eyes the transfer market is largely the top top tier and then 10m-and-under-whatever-I-don't-need-to-know-about-it-I'm-too-important. There's virtually no in between.

Also we're in a cash crunch like a lot of people have posted; so that plus Woody's inability to look at anything else but Sancho while clubs race past us taking players off the shelves.

I'd be interested in a caf's Build a Better Team Out of Players Who Recently Went for 25m and Under.

 

[simonhch]

We need more energy in midfield. And the midfield needs to function as a unit. Fred would always be in my xi, along with Bruno and possibly VdB. Ponga is a great player but needs to be higher up the pitch. The issues right now though are that we aren’t attacking and defending as a team.

 

[reelworld]

I've said it before and I'll say it again our best from was post Bruno signing and pre lockdown i.e. when there was no Pogba

Defensive shield of any two of McTominay/Fred and Matic behind the usual front 4

Yes, said this in the sell Maguire thread.

The current centerbacks isn't quick enough to play a high line. We need to changed that by playing a little deeper and played two mobile and energetic midfielders as the double pivot to enable us drive forward without having the central defenders push forward as well. Our forward players are quick enough to play at the break, and Bruno is good enough to pick those runs.

Last night the full backs got sucked inside because they're trying to play catch up when Maguire Bailly got caught too high and they have to cover them. And the fullbacks are also tasked to bombed forward to help the attack. It's fecking suicide for them.
Also, everyone know that a Mourinho midfield would be energetic and tenacious in tackles. They brought in Hojbjerg who personified that. But we countered them by playing 2 finesse midfielders in Matic and half-arsed/half fit Pogba. It's a recipe for disaster

 

[Waynne]

Bring back Fred and McTominay.

The very least you will have energy in the midfield that can tackle and press. Have Van De Beek play ahead of them.

 

[Blood Mage]

Pogba is the problem. He needs to be dropped and eventually sold, but it's clear that Solskjaer is under big pressure to shoehorn him into the side due to him being our most marketable asset. However, since Matic can't run anymore and we idiotically decided that we didn't need to sign a new DM this season, having him line up alongside Bruno is suicidal. First choice midfield for now should be:

Bruno
Fred - McTominay
​

 

[Sky1981]

Players plays as instructed. Granted some specific roles arent suited to a player strenght but a good manager make adjustments and a good player follow the instructions.

Pogba loves to showcase his skill for the sake of it. He's not playing for the team or ole just doesn't instruct him on how he should play. Could be both.

No way a midfield of 3 talented players cant work.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

A proper coach

Yes

I mean we don't focus on possession play and like to rush through our attacks but expect the midfield to be great. Ole likes us to attack with pace and intent but doesn't have the quality as a coach to instill genuine excellence and possession play in the team.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Matic will be the last one I will put in, he doesn’t press and not mobile enough. He doesn’t suit the 4231 especially playing with Pogba and if you look at Bayern double pivot, they are mobile, press and work their socks off to win the ball back and every 2nd ball. Pogba also lacks of awareness when defending.

For next game I’ll drop Pogba.

Bruno
VDB/Fred - McTominay​

 

[kerryman]

Best midfield performances we've had in the past few years was from Jan to April this year, after Bruno joined, while Pogba was out injured.
We have shown we don't need him and now with VdB also joining we have even less need for him.
Pogba is more of a liability than an asset at this stage. What team would even want him after seeing his underwhelming performances over the past few seasons.
He's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We need to go back to basics and that means starting with three midfielders who can run, tackle, defend and press. That is the bare minimum.

We have seen in tonight’s games what happens when a team plays a high-line and doesn’t press effectively. We also saw this last week with City vs Leicester.

Most fans will always blame the individuals because they lack the footballing nous to really understand what’s going on. Therefore, you will see fans criticising TAA, Gomez, Mendy, Shaw & Maguire after those results - and there is an element of truth in that as some of the individual errors are unforgivable.

However, more telling in all three of those games was the lack of pressing from the forwards/midfields. The most average attack will embarrass the best defenders if they are caught high up the pitch with no pressure on the ball. That’s why the old saying about “defending as a team” has never been truer.

Want we can’t have is Pogba lolloping around aimlessly, leaving huge gaps and isolating Matic (who is already slow). We don’t have the luxury of having room for an AM who only has to attack without defending. We can’t have Rashford, Martial and Greenwood switching off when the opposition have the ball.

Next game, i’d be tempted to go

GK - Henderson
RWB - AWB
CB - Lindelof
CB - Maguire
CB - Bailly
LWB - Shaw
CM - Matic
CM - Fernandes
CM - Van de Beek
ST - Greenwood
ST - Rashford

It’s not the prettiest team and it might be attritional but we’ve conceded 11 goals against Palace, Brighton and Spurs and it could have been 15/16 quite easily. That’s not down to personnel, as such, that’s tactical. A back four of Championship players shouldn’t be giving up the number of chances we give up, given the right support and the right system

Fact is, Ole is fine when playing counter attacking football but he’s yet to find a way to make us a cohesive front-foot attacking unit without leaving us wildly exposed at the back

When have we really pressed under Ole? Or Jose before him? There's no desire in these mangers that we hire to play that type of football. Ole likes us sitting off teams and pressing very lightly just like Mourinho. If he felt this was important, 200 plus million was enough to build a team that pressed well.

When we played Chelsea in the FA cup semi final last year, more than any other match, it was clear that they were the modern pressing team and we let the game come to us. Yes we beat them numerous times but the difference in ethos was there to see.