Mentioning Dida in Serie A Best XI is like mentioning Joe Hart as EPL Best XI and Joe Hart had 4 Golden Gloves and I don't think he was full of howlers.
What is your Serie A all-time xi?
- Thread starter Malkovich
- Start date
It's not baffling, it's the insane ammount of talent (of multiple types) in that 10 role, organizer, CM role Serie A had been blessed with. From Luis Suarez, Sivori to Rivera, passing through Maradona, Zico and Platini to Zidane and not even mentioning fellas like Laudrup (more of an 8 for me), Savicevic, etc etc it's normal that huge names will be left aside.
R9 has an extra layer of respect due to his style, his inmensse talent and his charisma and that if even creates for me too, a tad over the top apreciation of his talent, STILL has an enough ammount of great perfomances in Serie A that can easily make him a more than suitable
choice on any type of ALL time, Serie A included.
PD: Baggio it's my favorite Italian 10 and one of my favorite players ever no matter role or nationality.
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Can always remember Pagliuca nearly messing up in the 1994 World Cup final. Fumbled a long range shot that went through him but it hit the post and he kissed it in thanks.
Peruzzi is someone who gets forgotten about a bit aswell and he had a stocky build to say the least but was top keeper at Juventus and then had a really good spell at Lazio when they still had top team.
Think Italy had Toldo, Peruzzi and Buffon for at least one international tournament so don't think any other nation has ever had three top level keepers in the same squad.
Del Piero was usually outshining Zidane during their time at Juve together. Maybe not always in big moments but definitely overall in the league, he was their main man and their attack often fell apart when he was out.
The Giggs comparison is nice though. Extremely outlandish early promise and then a steady excellent/borderline world class career that lasted for so long but always felt like it didn't quite hit the heights of that early excitement... despite of hundreds of goals, assists and other iconic moments.
Snejider had a pretty good 2009-10 season. Key part of Inter's treble and then played very well for Holland in the World Cup.
Not anywhere near an all time Serie A 11 obviously but perhaps that showed how the league was changing as he was only a bit player at Real Madrid so similar to all the prem players signed now who can be very effective in Serie A.
Del Piero had a really bad injury around 1998, cruciate maybe but that stopped him really pushing on although still top level for many years as you say.
Also his international career was a frustration for a decade. Young and one start at Euro 96, alternated with Baggio at France 98, misses in the final of Euro 2000 as a sub, more sub cameos at 2002 World Cup before finally a starter at Euro 2004 and group stage exit.
Even in World Cup 2006 he didn't start a game until round of 16 v Australia but then redemption for all those disappointing years with late goal v Germany and then scoring in the shootout in the final.
As we've seen with the endless Messi/Ronaldo debates you do need to be a key protagonist at international level to enter the best of debates but Del Piero is certainly an iconic player for generations of Italian Football fans.
So many options from AC Milan alone
Costacurta
Baresi
Maldini
Nesta
Boban
Kaka
Rijkjaard
Gullit
Van Basten
Shevchenko
Savecivic
Simone
Rui Costa
Desailly
Weah
Albertini
Pirlo
Seedorf
Costacurta
Baresi
Maldini
Nesta
Boban
Kaka
Rijkjaard
Gullit
Van Basten
Shevchenko
Savecivic
Simone
Rui Costa
Desailly
Weah
Albertini
Pirlo
Seedorf
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I've watched a lot of the '90s Italian 10s over the last 3-4 years in all-touch comps and a decent amount of full games that I had not already watched.
My rough impression would be:
Baggio
Zola
Mancini/Totti...maybe a slight edge to Mancini, but they're similar.
Del Piero
There are not big gaps there, but the main difference I would say is that the top two really cover a larger area of the pitch and are more consistently involved, especially Zola at club level. He has a more genuine balance of midfieldish and forward properties than the others. Watch a solid amount of full games, and anyone will quickly realise none of these guys are nearly as individually deadly as goalscorers from open play as a quick glance at goalscoring records would suggest (they're hardly alone there among attackers though). A big chunk of goals are coming from set plays, and Totti, Del Piero, and particularly Baggio are all also apex penalty merchants.
- Totti and Del Piero were often surprisingly low/average involvement players. More about moments than dictating or being interactive all over the opponents' half of the field despite generally having quite free roles.
- "pre-injury" Del Piero is a bit exaggerated. I was expecting and had remembered there being a much bigger gap in physical decline than there actually was. Truth is he was never overly physically impressive (and looked entirely out of his depth physically when occasionally playing as a two-way side midfielder), and despite being a very good dribbler for a player of average pace, he's not as effective with it as I expected. He was also still too often a lowish-touches "moments" player for my liking rather than a more consistently involved interactive/playmaking one. That's not to say the injury didn't still play a big part in derailing him for a while; it undeniably did, but I'm only about 50/50 that his 97/98 was a level he could have maintained. Overall, he's the one that most gives the impression of being a less than the sum of the parts footballer.
- Zola usually gets put at the bottom, probably because he won the least as a player and had arguably the worst international career, with the sending off at 94 and the missed penalty that played a big part in putting Italy out of Euro 96. Which is fair enough, yet I thought he offered the most in open play other than Baggio, who is a bit more athletic and a better dribbler (though not by a whole lot). He's just more agile, involved in a bigger area of the pitch effectively, and more interactive than Totti or Del Piero, with a playing style more like an Iniesta/Silva midfield techno-midget with better firepower/direct threat, or a poor man's Maradona. Harder to mark out of the game for 10/20-minute stretches like you see happen with the others. Not any less of a goal threat from open play or free kicks.
- Totti is probably the best striker of the ball in open play and at holding up the ball near/in the box.
- Zola has the best press resistance and is the trickiest in tight spaces.
- Baggio is the most dangerous at carrying the ball and dribbling if able to create space.
- Baggio is a beast at going around/outfeinting the keeper in the box.
My rough impression would be:
Baggio
Zola
Mancini/Totti...maybe a slight edge to Mancini, but they're similar.
Del Piero
There are not big gaps there, but the main difference I would say is that the top two really cover a larger area of the pitch and are more consistently involved, especially Zola at club level. He has a more genuine balance of midfieldish and forward properties than the others. Watch a solid amount of full games, and anyone will quickly realise none of these guys are nearly as individually deadly as goalscorers from open play as a quick glance at goalscoring records would suggest (they're hardly alone there among attackers though). A big chunk of goals are coming from set plays, and Totti, Del Piero, and particularly Baggio are all also apex penalty merchants.
- Totti and Del Piero were often surprisingly low/average involvement players. More about moments than dictating or being interactive all over the opponents' half of the field despite generally having quite free roles.
- "pre-injury" Del Piero is a bit exaggerated. I was expecting and had remembered there being a much bigger gap in physical decline than there actually was. Truth is he was never overly physically impressive (and looked entirely out of his depth physically when occasionally playing as a two-way side midfielder), and despite being a very good dribbler for a player of average pace, he's not as effective with it as I expected. He was also still too often a lowish-touches "moments" player for my liking rather than a more consistently involved interactive/playmaking one. That's not to say the injury didn't still play a big part in derailing him for a while; it undeniably did, but I'm only about 50/50 that his 97/98 was a level he could have maintained. Overall, he's the one that most gives the impression of being a less than the sum of the parts footballer.
- Zola usually gets put at the bottom, probably because he won the least as a player and had arguably the worst international career, with the sending off at 94 and the missed penalty that played a big part in putting Italy out of Euro 96. Which is fair enough, yet I thought he offered the most in open play other than Baggio, who is a bit more athletic and a better dribbler (though not by a whole lot). He's just more agile, involved in a bigger area of the pitch effectively, and more interactive than Totti or Del Piero, with a playing style more like an Iniesta/Silva midfield techno-midget with better firepower/direct threat, or a poor man's Maradona. Harder to mark out of the game for 10/20-minute stretches like you see happen with the others. Not any less of a goal threat from open play or free kicks.
- Totti is probably the best striker of the ball in open play and at holding up the ball near/in the box.
- Zola has the best press resistance and is the trickiest in tight spaces.
- Baggio is the most dangerous at carrying the ball and dribbling if able to create space.
- Baggio is a beast at going around/outfeinting the keeper in the box.
Rickard and Gullit are always overrated imo.
I would rather have Pirlo, Seedorf or Rui Costa there.
Can’t really argue with the rest although I would put Ronaldinho in somewhere
Great post Demyan.
Buffon
Maldini
Baresi
Nesta
Cafu
Nedved
Zidane
McTominay
Pirlo
Del Piero
Ronaldo
Maldini
Baresi
Nesta
Cafu
Nedved
Zidane
McTominay
Pirlo
Del Piero
Ronaldo
Unclucky to miss out (largely due to sharing their role with another All-Time great): Zoff, Brehme, Baresi, Zanetti, Suárez Miramontes, Falcão, Platini, Gullit, Baggio.
Buffon
Zanetti
Baresi
Nesta
Maldini
Seedorf
Nedved
Zidane
Van Basten
R Baggio
Gullit
You could honestly pick multiple strong teams with the amount of talent that’s been in Serie A
Zanetti
Baresi
Nesta
Maldini
Seedorf
Nedved
Zidane
Van Basten
R Baggio
Gullit
You could honestly pick multiple strong teams with the amount of talent that’s been in Serie A
No Pirlo? Dude
Unclucky to miss out (largely due to sharing their role with another All-Time great): Zoff, Brehme, Baresi, Zanetti, Suárez Miramontes, Falcão, Platini, Gullit, Baggio.
Anyone else get overly giddy just looking at the names that get thrown around here? The staggering level of talent back in the day was a class of its own.
Easily my favourite thread. Tremendous
Easily my favourite thread. Tremendous
I wonder what people would consider to be the strongest leagues ever. The strongest leagues i am aware of are Italy 80s and 90s, premier league 04-12, 17-now and la liga 90s, early 2000's and 13-17.
I think the Serie A of the 90s was the strongest, by quite some margin. Not many more recent teams would have competed and there were so many good teams in the league with players who are now considered legends of the game.
For me the praise for the 90's it's way over the top, not because it wasn't great on many aspects, nor because of the quality of lots of players, it's just that it has an extra aura that it's not an strict football aspect that validates such suppose margin.
For instance I dig even more the 80's in Italy, this reminds me when Lineker very poorly defended the 80s in his show with the funny, yet mostly always clueless Micah going berzek with his adoration of the 90's.
The thing with the 90s' it's that it's a period in time were globalization finally makes its first real step to what we have now, full blown with Social media. Global TV, the explosion of Marketing as we never seen before.
Every period of the game has created an Aura for its time and the future, even today lots of the Aura of WCs has more to do with the romanticism that generated for the first time knowing a certain player/team from another country.
In fact not long ago, Tocalli and cia from the Youth NT from Argentina had to ask for tapes of that certain Messi there were some rumours about and we already lived in a global world. Fans many times does not take in account this type of extras.
-----------------Buffon---------------
Zanetti-Baresi-Scirea-Maldini
----------------Rijkaard---------------
--------Mathaus-Zidane-----------
--------------Maradona---------------
-----VanBasten-Ronaldo---------
Zanetti-Baresi-Scirea-Maldini
----------------Rijkaard---------------
--------Mathaus-Zidane-----------
--------------Maradona---------------
-----VanBasten-Ronaldo---------
The concentration of world class players from all the top countries and continents in Serie A during the 90s is far beyond anything we’ve seen since in terms of a whole league. Odd sides have popped up, mainly in the PL and La Liga, but other than that nothing on a league wide scale.
The may be a lot of nostalgia but look at the players listed in this thread, who were spread across 7-8 sides in the same league and you realise it isn’t just rose tinted glasses.
This is just my own preference from the period I watched serie in the mid 90s.
Buffon (Toldo)
Zanetti (Zambrotta)
Thuram
Nesta (Montero)
Maldini (Mihaljevic)
Di Livio (Nedved)
Davids (Vidal)
Conte
Veron
Crespo (Mancini, Signori)
Batistuta
Buffon (Toldo)
Zanetti (Zambrotta)
Thuram
Nesta (Montero)
Maldini (Mihaljevic)
Di Livio (Nedved)
Davids (Vidal)
Conte
Veron
Crespo (Mancini, Signori)
Batistuta
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Yet it was a League that had Bierhoff as goaslcorer, Almeyda as Guerrin D Or. Fellas like Piojo Lopez having great success. As great as Batistuta (I love him just in case, like I loved Signori too) or Crespo (I respect him, not much more) were, they weren't as skill or complete as forwards that came after or before. The thing of having at times R9, Zizou, Nesta and such or even Totti, Veron and cia does not make that period vastly superior to prior ones. It was indeed all around the world a very clear Striker galore tendency, some as marvellous as R9 and others more classic alike.
It's also a period where the 10's like Totti or Veron, like in great style @Demyanenko_square_jaw, were more prone to launch quite reckless the ball time and again in order to: if not succeeding, pressure on the second ball after the rival's miscontrol. The energy dinamic was great, yet it was extremely loose and with a tendency for looking for more dinamic players than extremely talented ones (even of course having lots of these late ones involved).
Of course I'm pointing aspects that weren't as glamorous from the 90's, mostly because at times those days are portraited like some sort of constant battle between R9 and Maldini. The 80s' were as harsh as those days defensivly in terms of the typical Italian approach of first secure your own net, later see what happens, yet, the level of intelligence in particulary of midfielders and their talent, was beyond outstanding
The importance of full blown Global TV, Cable, marketing (even as a carreer), even in other sports like the NBA created quite a package, that should not be left aside when analyzing why we "love" so much the 90's in general and in particular Serie A.
Of course haviing fellas like Jordan and R9 as epithome of those days, gave huge substance to such package.
Just name dropping, In the 80's, the main 10's were Platini, Zico and Maradona, just those three it's astronomical levels of talent.
Young fellas like Baggio, Laudrup, Zola. The box to box landmark was someone like Lothar, Gullit, Rikjaard..the defenders Baresi, Scirea, Passarella...teams like Fiore had Socrates and Passarella, Udinese Zico, Roma Falcao, fellas like Junior in Torino, a gem, Toninho Cerezo and countless of eastern Eruopean marvells, full of Italian legendary players too. While still having strikers galore with Van Basten, Rummennigge, Careca...
The thing is that I do not bash the 90s, how could anyone, but that HUGE MARGIN?, the epithome of global talent at once? mmm. In fact, my taste, I preffer quite a number of 80's players than 90s stars and BTW I'm a 90's fella, that's MY period.
PD: I must admitt that I also dislike a tad that period because since many argies were very succesfull in that over the top dinamic tendencies, meant that in the NT they were chosen and created the type of selections later Bielsa did and I hated. I'm absolutely biase regardin the 80's, because it's a golden era of offensive mids, but even admiting that, no one will convince me that huge gap in strict football terms regarding talent avaiable.
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My favourites from the 90's the era
4-2-2-2
4-2-2-2
Pagliuca
Thuram - Cannavaro - Desailly - Maldini
Ince - Davids
Zidane - R.Baggio
Ronaldo - Batistuta
Subs:
J.Zanetti
Del Piero
Weah
Thuram - Cannavaro - Desailly - Maldini
Ince - Davids
Zidane - R.Baggio
Ronaldo - Batistuta
Subs:
J.Zanetti
Del Piero
Weah