Yeah gut feeling is they are targets for midfield rebuild, however like you say I see it being next summer
What midfielder is suited to partner Bruno in the double pivot?
- Thread starter jamesjimmybyrondean
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Nik (@Rood), Jamie (@Vault Dweller) and Ed (@That'sHernandez) give their end of season awards out! They celebrate the best players, goals and moments of the season (there were some, honestly) and also give out awards for the worst and most disappointing players/moments of the season.
They then discuss all the latest transfer rumours and get into the potential ins and outs this summer at Old Trafford.
They were level on goals with the best midfield in the world. Nobody has more of the ball than Spain's midfield
You won’t get Baleba this summer for anything less than the 115 mill Chelsea paid for Caicedo.
I think this club needs to look a bit beyond how Portugal fared in a one of final against Spain. Plenty of evidence that Bruno in CM is a no go and a very naive idea.
If we're married to this two man midfield, I don't see how we can thrive without a dynamic all-rounder. They don't need to score/assist regularly, as Bruno will be the other CM, or be an absolute destroyer, as we have 3 CBs behind them. They DO need to be comfortable on the ball and be able to compete physically. There is less room for specialists in this system, I feel, and Ugarte, Bruno and Mainoo are more of that mold, in one way or another.
Maybe Collyer or Kone can have a massive breakout season. If not, we're gonna struggle without a good signing.
Maybe Collyer or Kone can have a massive breakout season. If not, we're gonna struggle without a good signing.
I actually think if Mainoo has a better season and we could feature Kone and Collyer more often, we might just do decently with the CMs we have. We don't have European football, so we could rotate more often. I'd still want a CM but not sure if we have the money after signing Cunha, Mbeumo and a top CF. We also must buy a new GK.
Yeah I dont see us signing a CM this summer. If we somehow manage to secure Mbeumo, Gyokeres and Cunha, I would be content going into another season with our current midfield options. With those 3 additions, I am confident we could challenge for a top 4 finish. Our main issue this season was clearly the lack of consistent goal scoring threats.
I dont see us signing a CM this summer, so I am not particularly concerned about Baleba transfer fee. Even if we do decide to strengthen in midfield, we have plenty of other options to consider. Hayden Hackney for example looks promising. The key will be addressing our actual needs rather than chasing headline grabbing signings.
By all accounts, he’s a top talent — calm on the ball, intelligent in possession, and could well be our very own Adam Wharton.
That said, I do have doubts about whether Amorim would be convinced by a midfield pairing of Hackney and Bruno. From a physicality standpoint, it might lack the bite and presence he's clearly looking for in the engine room.
However, we could bring him in alongside a more under-the-radar midfield partner — someone big and athletic — I’d be all for it.
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We were level on goals with City, Arsenal and Liverpool in our most recent games. I guess we're just fine. If we continue to be unable to sustain pressure and the ball, it is on the manager anyways I guess.
To be honest as much as I love Bruno, I just don’t see it working with him in CM. I’d invest in Ederson, who is an elite level B2B midfielder, good at every aspect of the game, and pair him with Mainoo. Amad and Mbeumo will dovetail beautifully on the right as Mbeumo likes to start wide, leaving space for the under lap or overlap from Amad, and this is where I get really controversial, I’d play Bruno on the left of midfield and have him dovetail with Cunha. He’d cut in a lot, but he’d be able to get into attacking positions on his stronger right foot and switch the play. With Heaven behind him, who had serious legs, and Ederson covering that side of the pitch too, I wouldn’t see a problem with it. I see the wingbacks as wide midfielders/attackers anyway. I hate playing defenders there. That’s what having 3 cbs is for.
It’s the only way I can actually see fitting him in in a way where he can be a strength. Maybe, just maybe with better attacking options ahead he’ll be more positionally disciplined, but I’m skeptical.
It’s the only way I can actually see fitting him in in a way where he can be a strength. Maybe, just maybe with better attacking options ahead he’ll be more positionally disciplined, but I’m skeptical.
I would honestly want us to sign a midfielder of the mold of Hackney. Won’t cost absurd amounts and can do a bit of everything.
Ugarte + Hackney in midfield gives us a combative pairing. If we don’t sign a CF, we should rather play Bruno as False 9 with Cunha Mbuemo running off him. 3-4-1-2 variation. Unlikely though in Amorim’s system.
Keep Garnacho and Amad on the bench as the 2 10s. Atleast the bench would be strong in that case.
If we sign a CF, however good Bruno is, I just don’t see it panning out well with him in CM.
Ugarte + Hackney in midfield gives us a combative pairing. If we don’t sign a CF, we should rather play Bruno as False 9 with Cunha Mbuemo running off him. 3-4-1-2 variation. Unlikely though in Amorim’s system.
Keep Garnacho and Amad on the bench as the 2 10s. Atleast the bench would be strong in that case.
If we sign a CF, however good Bruno is, I just don’t see it panning out well with him in CM.
Do people just refuse to acknowledge he will leave the club?
I would say that at this point it is evident that a deeper role is now Bruno's best position and, being a very good player, he's certainly a strong and desirable option in that area.
Two in midfield with Bruno is a disaster.
Maybe it’s the best position for himself, but it’s a suicidal for the team.
All signs point to him leaving but one can hope since there hasn’t been any bidding started at this point.
You are putting too much emphasis on the characteristics, technical atributes of players to surround Bruno and you don't put too much thought if Bruno deserves that in terms of HOW you want your team to play.
It's not a question of quality, attitude, Bruno has both in his bag.
It's a question of what style the coach wants United to play if the main idea it's a more press ressistant mid, a less loose and more organized mid (if this is actually the idea many here likes).
The main issue won't be Bruno's technique or quality, yet his personality and tendencies.
Let's say United buys John Doe of 19 years old that looks like Mauro Silva, Redondo, Roy Keane reborn in terms of ability, yet still a kid and so far without those fellas personality, how much do you think things will change?
The minute Bruno decides the pass he received instead of hold in it, of continue to make combinations of short passes it's an instant long ball with no one complaining, nothing changes.
It's not that if he suddenly has a playmaker maestro a la Zico, Maradona beside him, or Kante, Mascherano pac man alike recovering everything, or a big ego nasty mid a la Dunga, Simeone they all instantly will merge and work wonders.
If Bruno still feels he is the boss of everything, including the way the team will play, he'll clash the minute a Gatusso runs like a maniac recovering and he tries three hollywood passes out of nowhere after the Italain left his blood to recovering it.
The other day I've read here that Bruno with Portugal won against a possession style Spain. Yet when watching the game, that Portugal was quite different in approach to what Vitinha and Neves do in PSG and that is because of the coach and the gallons Bruno has in this team that it's diff to Luis Enrique with a very clear idea imposed in his players and later those with the humility to do it as it's told and with solidarity and no huge Ego above anyone. At the same time, Portugal won, so it's question of actually decide if instead of asking stuff Bruno does not have in his blood, to actually play to his strengths, not implying that Portugal in that particualr game won because of him, yet that there are more logical things to ask to Bruno than perhaps him adapting to sthg he doesn't feel nor perhaps in some particular aspects have the quality to do them..
At the end of the day, if Bruno stays, he needs a serious chat with the coach and his mates, there is no kid to buy right now in the market or in the team that can call out Bruno when he goes over the top or to organize/order him a bit. Even Casemiro with his huge shoulders, at this current state, couldn't.
Even if at times it was easy to see his complains. In fact in Madrid, Casemiro was surrounded by two huge players in Kross and Modric, they all interact within each other most of times in a very cohesive way. I don't know if it is out there a player that can do that with Bruno in order to change United style to a more calm, less loose, press ressistant mid. It woudl be hard. Maybe United has to play more to Bruno's strengths, more rock and roll, more box to box, with lots of very atheltic bodies covering the gaps this style always leave. Maybe that is a more easy task to find in the market in order to use Bruno in a more Bruno way, instead of trying to shoehorn in a more possesion and press resistant style surrounded by players that does not have his status in Manchester and his ego. Another matter it's if the majority of fans or not, would want that style more suitable to his tendencies, or if he is worthy of such consideration, that's a question of taste and confidence or lack of it with the player.
It's not a question of quality, attitude, Bruno has both in his bag.
It's a question of what style the coach wants United to play if the main idea it's a more press ressistant mid, a less loose and more organized mid (if this is actually the idea many here likes).
The main issue won't be Bruno's technique or quality, yet his personality and tendencies.
Let's say United buys John Doe of 19 years old that looks like Mauro Silva, Redondo, Roy Keane reborn in terms of ability, yet still a kid and so far without those fellas personality, how much do you think things will change?
The minute Bruno decides the pass he received instead of hold in it, of continue to make combinations of short passes it's an instant long ball with no one complaining, nothing changes.
It's not that if he suddenly has a playmaker maestro a la Zico, Maradona beside him, or Kante, Mascherano pac man alike recovering everything, or a big ego nasty mid a la Dunga, Simeone they all instantly will merge and work wonders.
If Bruno still feels he is the boss of everything, including the way the team will play, he'll clash the minute a Gatusso runs like a maniac recovering and he tries three hollywood passes out of nowhere after the Italain left his blood to recovering it.
The other day I've read here that Bruno with Portugal won against a possession style Spain. Yet when watching the game, that Portugal was quite different in approach to what Vitinha and Neves do in PSG and that is because of the coach and the gallons Bruno has in this team that it's diff to Luis Enrique with a very clear idea imposed in his players and later those with the humility to do it as it's told and with solidarity and no huge Ego above anyone. At the same time, Portugal won, so it's question of actually decide if instead of asking stuff Bruno does not have in his blood, to actually play to his strengths, not implying that Portugal in that particualr game won because of him, yet that there are more logical things to ask to Bruno than perhaps him adapting to sthg he doesn't feel nor perhaps in some particular aspects have the quality to do them..
At the end of the day, if Bruno stays, he needs a serious chat with the coach and his mates, there is no kid to buy right now in the market or in the team that can call out Bruno when he goes over the top or to organize/order him a bit. Even Casemiro with his huge shoulders, at this current state, couldn't.
Even if at times it was easy to see his complains. In fact in Madrid, Casemiro was surrounded by two huge players in Kross and Modric, they all interact within each other most of times in a very cohesive way. I don't know if it is out there a player that can do that with Bruno in order to change United style to a more calm, less loose, press ressistant mid. It woudl be hard. Maybe United has to play more to Bruno's strengths, more rock and roll, more box to box, with lots of very atheltic bodies covering the gaps this style always leave. Maybe that is a more easy task to find in the market in order to use Bruno in a more Bruno way, instead of trying to shoehorn in a more possesion and press resistant style surrounded by players that does not have his status in Manchester and his ego. Another matter it's if the majority of fans or not, would want that style more suitable to his tendencies, or if he is worthy of such consideration, that's a question of taste and confidence or lack of it with the player.
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Good coaches are able to make use of a player as talented as Bruno. Inter beat teams like Bayern and Barcelona with players like Mhikitarian and Calhanoglu as DM.
I'm not a huge fan of Bruno in general, but in the right position, i.e. most advanced midfielder or no.10 he has a place and qualities that can be beneficial.
Where he cannot play (please Amorim wake the feck up) is CM.
Even worse it seems we'll play Bruno as CM in a midfield 2, which is genuinely suicidal.
If that happens we are cooked no matter about anything else. Control central midfield and control the game which we have not done since Fergie and arguably not even during some of Fergie's time here.
I like our signings and proposed signings but if we go into the season with Bruno as one of a CM two we won't get anywhere. There used to be a "quote me on it" thread. Happy to be quoted on this!
The Bruno we know, for me it's more like down here in South America it's an 8, without the dribbling some 8's have, yet with a great goaslcoring ability.
He is box to box, he has a great final ball, he tries to take advanatge of pockets of space and run into them. He has his hustling edge when he actually applies to it.
Certainly not a CM and for a "classic" 10, he does not belong to either of the most relevant types, nor the organizative, metronome passer with great skills (and build) to hold the ball like Zidane, Riquelme...nor the dinamic dribbler, with pass and also organizative skills when slowing down a la Zico, or way lesser names Aimar.
Maybe Amorin with time can work wonders and convert him in a CM, after looking Lucho convert Dembele in a more calm, team oriented player, anythiong is possible. Yet far from a reality right now and I also don't think it's in his atributes and even physique to be that great as CM (thought he is not far from waht's need, it just doesn't look that he feels that game either) or any of those two types of 10s.
This doesn't mean that without fitting entirely in those mentioned moldes, maybe Amorin creates some couples that compliment each other in a way that works.
Javi Guerra
What I don't understand with Brighton is how they manage to keep their players happy given the high "market value" relative to the low wages.
For example, saying Baleba is a £115m talent... well £115m talent should command £250k salary and yet Baleba is probably currently on 1/5th of that and yet not complaining.
Genuine question: how do Brighton maintain that squad happiness and avoid value/salary disparity unhappiness?
He has a contract until 2028 with a weekly salary of 12.500.
Brighton might negotiate a longer contract and raise his salary but from a legal point of view he has to play 3 more years for that kind of money.
Well, then that is on the coach.
Apparently he was on about 1600 quid a week at Lille when we bought him and we put him on 12,500 a week. I imagine he gets some good bonuses but it is ridiculously cheap.
I guess he knows we took a big gamble on him bringing him in and he will get a big move, he’s still only 21. Some players do begin to agitate to move, Pedro at the moment will go as he’s become a bit of a problem. Caicedo was problematic towards the end as well.
Every sensible fan can see what Ruben is missing. We were getting dominated in midfield in some games, even with Casemiro and Ugarte paired together, never mind pairing Bruno with one of them. Our midfield will let this team down, even if we have firepower up front. United needed to be ruthless and tell Bruno he had to go, then use the money from his sale, along with other funds to complete the rebuild in one summer. But it seems they lost their nerve when it came to Bruno. They managed to be ruthless with other players, so this is puzzling
If Ruben was not happy, he should have been sent packing too. United should be first and foremost and we should not pander to any manager or player.
If Ruben was not happy, he should have been sent packing too. United should be first and foremost and we should not pander to any manager or player.
Regarding this, you have to keep in mind that football was completely different when Carrick was 21. There was a lot more emphasis on just getting forward, and less importance on keeping possession.
Yeah but thinking more about the motivation, if they’re so comfortable saying he’s worth £115m he should be comfortable saying he’s worth 100k
It's obviously not though, and that doesn't make any sense - one of a team's strongest players being used in what is the best position for him to excel in is suicidal for said team?
Have you missed the part where we finished a PL season with 42 points and a -10 negative goal difference? Finishing 15th and Bruno having absolute stinkers every other week?
Are you attributing the terrible team performance to Fernandes playing in midfield? Do you somehow believe there to be no variance in performance levels amongst all the players individually?
I certainly did miss Bruno having stinkers every other week. What I saw was a player having his best season since his initial year and a half here. Even a couple of years ago he was deployed as a no.6 for two games in a row by Ten Hag (I think to cover an injury or suspension to Casemiro) and was the best player on the pitch in both games and they were probably his best performances of that season. He is simply a very good central midfielder.
No certain individual was solely responsible for our terrible season, not Bruno, not Garnacho, not Amorim. It was a combination of factors and Bruno as the captain leader and best player certainly had a contribution in the team scoring 44 goals while conceding 54.
And yeah you certainly did miss Bruno having stinkers every other week, from the EL league final to the 10+ defeats in the league in which he did feck all just like many of his teammates. And no he did not have a good season, 6 of his assists came against the relegated teams, and another 3 goals involvements against Everton who were just as crap as we were. Stats are his greatest ally and 11 of his 19 goal involvements in the PL were against Everton and the relegated 3 teams. If we look beyond that, his defensive contribution and instincts, his erratic passing and his ability to sustain pressure with the ball, you go from a very very good AM to a crap CM.
Someone drop the newbie status on this guy
Spoken like a Caf vet
To answer your question: Ederson
Fee aside, what’s he like style wise? Good and bad bits
I’ve not seen much of him play
He's a very accomplished all rounder. He can play (and does mainly) as a defensive midfielder or as a box to box. He's great at breaking up play and is physically very strong, in fact he's quite like Caicedo in that respect, but where he differs from Caicedo is in his progression of the ball, he's great at breaking the lines and turning defence into attack in split second. He's technically gifted enough to be able to do this both by carrying the ball himself or picking a pass to bypass a midfield.
I think we bought him for about 25 million after he'd made only 5 or 6 starts for Lille, so he was a big gamble and he struggled at first under De Zerbi, but he has really had a break out season this year and the transitional football we play under Hurzeler really suits him. I'm certainly not alone on thinking that a midfield of Baleba and Gomez has the potential to be better than Caicedo and Mac Allister.
On the negative side, he can get caught out by over committing sometimes, but he's only 21 and still learning and improving.
I know I am biased, but I genuinely think he is well on the way to becoming one of the best midfielders in the world.
That is why I preferred selling him for crazy money. I worry that we will shoehorn him into a position where he will not excel and consequently we will still be shit
80m wasn't crazy money.
The club using Bruno as a central midfielder is a huge gamble. He is not disciplined enough to play the role. I'm not convinced of his positioning, ability to control games and defensive awareness. Gives away the ball frequently and will require a partner that will mop up his errors.
The club needed to invest substantially into that central midfield. Two starters at minimum. One playmaker and a box to box technical player. They've done neither and will try to shove Bruno into the role. A club with ambition will be looking to bring in quality midfielders to challenge his position as an attacking midfielder and then gradually move him on. I was convicted that the Saudi move was going to happen but he has chosen to settle because he is comfortable. The midfield needs new quality and a different style of player.
The club needed to invest substantially into that central midfield. Two starters at minimum. One playmaker and a box to box technical player. They've done neither and will try to shove Bruno into the role. A club with ambition will be looking to bring in quality midfielders to challenge his position as an attacking midfielder and then gradually move him on. I was convicted that the Saudi move was going to happen but he has chosen to settle because he is comfortable. The midfield needs new quality and a different style of player.