What midfielder is suited to partner Bruno in the double pivot?

FlawlessVictory88 said:
Mateus Fernandes worked under Amorim at Sporting and has been one of the best two way CM's in the league this season. Here's his stats compared to Bruno Guimaraes, the CM I think he's closest too stylistically.

https://ibb.co/CKn3C2Dk

If we could sign him for anything close to the fee Southampton paid then he'd be a steal.
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Would like this signing. We need 2-3 players in Midfield over the next 12-18 months and should snap these players up if available for a decent price. Having a rotation means we can rest legs and keep energy up.
 
Tallis said:
Would like this signing. We need 2-3 players in Midfield over the next 12-18 months and should snap these players up if available for a decent price. Having a rotation means we can rest legs and keep energy up.
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Interested to know what's his price?
 


I would love to sign this guy, from the few matches I watched looked elegant in the midfield, very good skillset, but I only watched few games in the world cup. He is also linked to Sporting CP.
 
Giggsyking said:


I would love to sign this guy, from the few matches I watched looked elegant in the midfield, very good skillset, but I only watched few games in the world cup. He is also linked to Sporting CP.
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Reasonable price but terrible source
 
Does anyone know how Lesley Ugochukwu played for Southampton? Could be available for a decent price since Chelsea have too many DMs and need to balance their PSR.
 
Houdini said:
Quality box-to-box 8. Strong, good controll and technique, decent speed.
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Hope the rumours are real and we're in from him. I followed him a bit and think he is fantastic. Don't think he is the right partner to Bruno though. Would love to see him partnered with Ugarte.
 
Maybe more to the point, is Bruno suited to playing in a double pivot?
 
Ikon said:
Maybe more to the point, is Bruno suited to playing in a double pivot?
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Honestly he's not.

He fits in a 3 man midfield or a 10 in this system. We should've sold him if we are persisting with this formation.

Hopefully I'm wrong.
 
Ikon said:
Maybe more to the point, is Bruno suited to playing in a double pivot?
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We all know the answer to that question but can you bench Bruno, even though he doesnt really fit into Amorim's tactics?
He's been your best player for the past few years and he's loved by fans, but we've all seen this season he doesnt fit in the double pivot, and he doesnt have the explosiveness or the ball carrying ability Amorim wants from his #10s. It's an odd situation that will probably develop into a major problem during the season.
 
Let be realistic, improvements to MF ain't coming this summer, so it's over to Mainoo. Lets just hope he is energised after the break and he has a great season.
 
renatosanches85 said:
Bruno shouldn’t be in the double pivot, end of.
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He shouldn't, but all the moves the club has made so far this summer (rejecting the Saudi approach and primarily targeting two number 10s) indicate that's where he'll be played going forward.
 


Would this guy work with Bruno or would it be too attacking?

Would love a Herrera v2 for us
 
ClassOf'99 said:


Would this guy work with Bruno or would it be too attacking?

Would love a Herrera v2 for us
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We should sign this guy for sure if we can.

But I don’t think he is the right partner for Bruno. He is B2B and Bruno hardly holds position.
 
Tallis said:
We should sign this guy for sure if we can.

But I don’t think he is the right partner for Bruno. He is B2B and Bruno hardly holds position.
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Unfortunately, this smells like agent talk to get better deal at Valencia.
 
apart from the final was Bruno not still our best player playing in CM? why do we think he won't be able to adjust and get even better in that role moving forward?
 
ClassOf'99 said:


Would this guy work with Bruno or would it be too attacking?

Would love a Herrera v2 for us
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Javi Guerra is well suited to a double pivot, very good all around midfielder who can do a bit of everything. But he can't really start with Bruno. His duo with Barrenechea (who's more of a pure DM) in a midfield 2 worked really well but when he was playing with Pepelu, a more offensive minded CM, they had problems winning the ball back and controlling the game, as evidenced in the 7-1 loss to Barcelona.
He'd be a very good recruit in my opinion but Valencia should be asking a lot of money. When midfielders like Zubimendi, Koopmeiners or Onana go for €50-60M, it's the price range they should be targeting.
 
Smudger22587 said:
apart from the final was Bruno not still our best player playing in CM? why do we think he won't be able to adjust and get even better in that role moving forward?
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I love Bruno and have probably made 50 posts defending him on this forum.

But the CM spot requires discipline in position and use of ball.Bruno runs wherever he wants to and sometimes makes risky 5 hard passes for no apparent benefit. I find him better at 10 where he can afford to take some risk and occasionally give up his position.
 
Tallis said:
I love Bruno and have probably made 50 posts defending him on this forum.

But the CM spot requires discipline in position and use of ball.Bruno runs wherever he wants to and sometimes makes risky 5 hard passes for no apparent benefit. I find him better at 10 where he can afford to take some risk and occasionally give up his position.
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He showed he has the required discipline as a central midfielder on every occasion he actually played there last season. He lacked positional discipline when deployed as one of the no.10s.

He's much better deeper.
 
sherrinford said:
He showed he has the required discipline as a central midfielder on every occasion he actually played there last season. He lacked positional discipline when deployed as one of the no.10s.

He's much better deeper.
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This. He’s better with the play in front of him where he can initiate counter attacks and then join in with the attack. The idea that he lacks discipline is false, he’s a very intelligent footballer and has played the majority of games alongside a more defensive player.

I really like Guerra and think he would give us tactical flexibility. He can play alongside Bruno in the games we expect to dominate and he can be the long term successor to Bruno eventually. If we want to push Bruno into the 10 position and use Cunha or Mbeumo in other positions then he’s another good option there. At 22 he has a lot of room for growth and he’s already really good at driving forward and covering ground.
 
sherrinford said:
He showed he has the required discipline as a central midfielder on every occasion he actually played there last season. He lacked positional discipline when deployed as one of the no.10s.

He's much better deeper.
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I feel like we must have watched different games. He was constantly out of position leaving his partner stranded and not having the athletic abilities to get back. Hence why we were often ripped apart by one pass.

I imagine this led to the defence sitting deeper and the wingbacks not pushing as high as they should have because they were worried about being turned over as our midfield was weak.

He works in a 3 where he can be the most attacking, arriving in a box or just supplying something with his riskier passing but in a 2 it just doesn’t suit him.

Hopefully Ruben has a plan for him as surely if we aren’t buying Mbeuno and Cunha to be back ups.

I imaging it will involve one of the CB’s stepping in to midfield which would probably fall on Shaw or Martinez as the two best ball players out of our options. Which will then allow Bruno to go forward, however his lack of athleticism combined with Casemiro will hurt us badly this season more than once.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
I feel like we must have watched different games. He was constantly out of position leaving his partner stranded and not having the athletic abilities to get back. Hence why we were often ripped apart by one pass.

I imagine this led to the defence sitting deeper and the wingbacks not pushing as high as they should have because they were worried about being turned over as our midfield was weak.

He works in a 3 where he can be the most attacking, arriving in a box or just supplying something with his riskier passing but in a 2 it just doesn’t suit him.

Hopefully Ruben has a plan for him as surely if we aren’t buying Mbeuno and Cunha to be back ups.

I imaging it will involve one of the CB’s stepping in to midfield which would probably fall on Shaw or Martinez as the two best ball players out of our options. Which will then allow Bruno to go forward, however his lack of athleticism combined with Casemiro will hurt us badly this season more than once.
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Completely disagree. Getting forward is not being out of position. Blame for being 'ripped apart by one pass' should not be attributed to the more attacking central midfield player with four deeper teammates in position to guard against counterattacks. Bruno is a tireless worker and has a great reaction to his team losing the ball - he presses or recovers his position promptly. He also had games where he was deployed right in front of the back three and maintained his position as the anchoring midfielder. He joined in in attack when he had licence to do so/ when it was expected of him, and held his position when tasked with doing so.

On the evidence of last season, a midfield two suits him more. Or rather, playing in one of the two deeper midfield positions suits him more (regardless of whether the team plays a two or a three). He plays with more maturity and discipline in those roles, and I certainly hope that the plan is to use him there full time.

Our centre backs may well drive or run forward as and when the opportunity arises within games, but the idea that one of the back three moves and positions themselves in the midfield off the ball and alters the shape of the team in build up is something we'll only see at goal kicks as a way to progress the ball from that specific dead-ball situation.

There's also no need at all for someone to step in to allow the more advanced/ attacking/ free midfielder in a two to be more advanced/ attacking/ free than the player he has been deployed alongside. It's THE generic way to set up a midfield pair really. Completely natural. And a three-man defensive line with one midfielder sat in front of them is very much a typical configuration in possession too.

Pairing Fernandes with Casemiro is, I agree, asking to be exposed. But that's because the latter is a liability, no longer able to compete physically at this level. Bruno is one of our best players and is very much capable of excelling.
 
For me he does not really suit any position within Amorims system.

He has not got the legs to be in a midfield 2.

If we play him in a midfield 2 next year we will continue to be overrun
 
Tallis said:
I love Bruno and have probably made 50 posts defending him on this forum.

But the CM spot requires discipline in position and use of ball.Bruno runs wherever he wants to and sometimes makes risky 5 hard passes for no apparent benefit. I find him better at 10 where he can afford to take some risk and occasionally give up his position.
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Don't get me wrong i'd much prefer him as a number 10 but not in this system, I actually think his ability to add goals and creativity from the middle of the park with Cunha, Mbuemo and even Zirkzee or Hojlund uptop would be fantastic next season, I feel we just need the right disciplined partner next to him.
 
Am I incorrect in assuming that if we sold Garnacho, Rashford, Antony and Sancho (big ask I know) we’d have enough for a Baleba?

He’s the only one I’ve seen myself that could facilitate a pivot to Bruno really, really well.
 
sherrinford said:
Completely disagree. Getting forward is not being out of position. Blame for being 'ripped apart by one pass' should not be attributed to the more attacking central midfield player with four deeper teammates in position to guard against counterattacks. Bruno is a tireless worker and has a great reaction to his team losing the ball - he presses or recovers his position promptly. He also had games where he was deployed right in front of the back three and maintained his position as the anchoring midfielder. He joined in in attack when he had licence to do so/ when it was expected of him, and held his position when tasked with doing so.

On the evidence of last season, a midfield two suits him more. Or rather, playing in one of the two deeper midfield positions suits him more (regardless of whether the team plays a two or a three). He plays with more maturity and discipline in those roles, and I certainly hope that the plan is to use him there full time.

Our centre backs may well drive or run forward as and when the opportunity arises within games, but the idea that one of the back three moves and positions themselves in the midfield off the ball and alters the shape of the team in build up is something we'll only see at goal kicks as a way to progress the ball from that specific dead-ball situation.

There's also no need at all for someone to step in to allow the more advanced/ attacking/ free midfielder in a two to be more advanced/ attacking/ free than the player he has been deployed alongside. It's THE generic way to set up a midfield pair really. Completely natural. And a three-man defensive line with one midfielder sat in front of them is very much a typical configuration in possession too.

Pairing Fernandes with Casemiro is, I agree, asking to be exposed. But that's because the latter is a liability, no longer able to compete physically at this level. Bruno is one of our best players and is very much capable of excelling.
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Ok you’re welcome to that opinion, I’ll leave it there. We obviously see tactics and performances very differently and I don’t have the energy for a discussion on it.

Hopefully he does well and improves on his general play in midfield.
 
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