What midfielder is suited to partner Bruno in the double pivot?

You need the perfect midfielder who can hold the midfield alone when Bruno does his things.

Bruno needs to be more disciplined or we play three in midfield or he needs to play further forward as no. 10.
 
Ugarte needs to be dropped after that display.

Feck it, Bruno and Mainoo in CM, let’s have it
 
There’s no one on the market worth buying right now imo. Wharton and Baleba will cost a fortune this late in the window and neither are proven enough to merit that. Stick to the plan, improve the midfield next summer. What we should be doing is changing the system to suit the midfielders we currently have when it isn’t working. But I expect it to work better once our signings bed in and the entire squad has more match fitness

I must add, I like Javi Guerra and think he’d be a shrewd signing but I see him as a replacement for Bruno long term
 
You need the perfect midfielder who can hold the midfield alone when Bruno does his things.

Bruno needs to be more disciplined or we play three in midfield or he needs to play further forward as no. 10.

Think long medium to long term we need someone who can keep things ticking over, and will develop there game over time.

Long term perhaps they partner Mainoo, but whoever it is needs to be able to do a bit of everything.

Profile wise someone like Mousa Dembélé ex Tottenham comes to mind or a player with that profile:

High intensity
Press resistant
Can play facing his own goal
wins high % 50/50s
Doesnt hold onto the ball
Can play a high tempo passes

Is there someone on the market like this?

Not seen anything of Beleba but you are talking Caicedo money. Wharton perhaps has the technical profile, but does he have that high intensity physicality, is he winning those 50/50s? Does Kone have the physicality for the Premier League looking even further ahead?

Its not an easy one
 
Ugarte had a bad game but let's not forget how good he was in the previous 2 games for us. Also it's pre-season so let's give him some time and a at the end of this season we can decide if he's good enough or not.

I think Bruno leaves next summer and Mainoo/Ugarte are the midfield pairing going forward.
 
The key issue for me is Bruno isn't suited to the double pivot. Even the ideal partner would struggle to some extent as they would need to cover a lot for Bruno.
 
You need the perfect midfielder who can hold the midfield alone when Bruno does his things.

Bruno needs to be more disciplined or we play three in midfield or he needs to play further forward as no. 10.

Is there a single midfielder who can make up for him trying a dumb nutmeg/back heel in his own half?

People are always wondering, why aren't the wingbacks high enough. It's because our midfielders give the ball away well before they can join the attack. If they started bombing forward with no regard, we'd have 3+1 players getting broken on by the opposition.

In a set up like this, you need to shift all your risk appetite to your forwards, and some of it to your wingbacks. Your CMs and CBs need to almost completely eliminate risk out of their game.
 
I don't think Bruno should be in midfield, considering now we have Mbeumo and Cunha who give the ball away just as much as he does.
 
Watching the game felt like Everton did a pretty good job of exploiting the weakness of our midfield. It was partly our fault as we were rushing everything and not really having large moments of control. So wingbacks we’re getting caught high and our midfield weren’t able to get back and cover it.

So they were just whipping in early crosses and turning our defence around. Probably something we are going to see a lot of this season which will probably be a lot worse if the duo is Bruno and Cas.
 
Al Nassr sniffing around gives us the opportunity to do the right thing again. But my view is that he will leave next summer, along with Casemiro. They will both ride off into the Arabian sun after the World Cup and we will address the midfield then.

I’d really love for us to rebuild with a midfield trio at that point, but that would likely mean another disastrous season that sees Amorim sacked, and I’m not sure we can afford two of those in a row. I can’t see that the market will engage with us as they have this summer, and players will really start to refuse to come here in a way they haven’t done yet.
I believe this will happend too.
We need Bruno now, he is the main guy in the dressing room and without him we would have easily finished lower last season.

Agree.

If there was an elite striker available at the right price, an argument could be made either way.

But we didnt get Delap, Gyokeres, Ekitie and found out that Watkins was too expensive, so we are reaching for Sesko, and potentially bidding against Newcastle now.

Get a top class DM that can be a cornerstone of our midfield for years to come.

BALEBA!
This!

Why not put Baleba on the credit card, like we would do for Sesko?
Yesterday showed we need a Def minded Mid. Maybe Casmiero can save us, but he struggles to cover distances. Baleba really is a priority before Sesko. But if we can get both great!
 
Ugarte had a bad game but let's not forget how good he was in the previous 2 games for us. Also it's pre-season so let's give him some time and a at the end of this season we can decide if he's good enough or not.

I think Bruno leaves next summer and Mainoo/Ugarte are the midfield pairing going forward.
The issue is clear- he’s best when the game dictates him to play on his front foot (when we’re pressing high and winning the ball back), and abysmal the other way around (when pressed high by a more physical opponent, where he needs to have surgical control and progress the ball out of dangerous areas).

The die is cast on his scouting report- he can be successful if our press works up top, but a turnover machine if we get pinned down trying to get out of our box through the middle. Either we get another 6 that is better on the ball, or we play the ball long, or through our wingbacks. Makes us predictable, easy to defend and never in control of the ball.
 
We have spent £89m + 20m for Cunha and a few mill for Leon. We recouped the Mbemeo money with Rashford's saved wages. Plus we have had Elanga, Herndanez (LB) + Sancho (5m from Chelsea) which is around £25m which covers Cunha and Leon money. So it's really only the £89m for previous transfers we have spent.

Selling Athony would be huge, but we could afford Baleba this summer in installments.
 
Really? That's not very good.
Yes, Mbeumo was the only player who lost possession more times than Bruno last season. Cunha is not on the same level, but we'll need a solid midfield to make it work, and Bruno shouldn't be in that midfield.
 
I still can't get my head around how it works with Bruno, Cuhna, and Mbeumo.

Short on a formation change, then it just seems we have wilfully created a massive problem in our starting 11 for the upcoming season.
 
Yes, Mbeumo was the only player who lost possession more times than Bruno last season. Cunha is not on the same level, but we'll need a solid midfield to make it work, and Bruno shouldn't be in that midfield.

You say that but neither are particularly disproportionate to other attacking midfielders. Salah for instance is roughly the same and if you went back the likes of Rooney would have similar. There's an element of main man syndrome.

It would be interesting to see the split for Bruno as a midfielder, the only unpicking I could do was a quick manual look. He had less than 80% possession whilst playing CM only 4 times last season, most are average mid 80%. Possession loss does seem to be an overblown narrative with Bruno, people are unable to separate how he plays as an AM and CM.
 
You say that but neither are particularly disproportionate to other attacking midfielders. Salah for instance is roughly the same and if you went back the likes of Rooney would have similar. There's an element of main man syndrome.

It would be interesting to see the split for Bruno as a midfielder, the only unpicking I could do was a quick manual look. He had less than 80% possession whilst playing CM only 4 times last season, most are average mid 80%. Possession loss does seem to be an overblown narrative with Bruno, people are unable to separate how he plays as an AM and CM.
I agree, creative players tend to have that 'problem'. My only concern is how to accommodate 3 players like that without conceding a lot of goals.
 
I still can't get my head around how it works with Bruno, Cuhna, and Mbeumo.

Short on a formation change, then it just seems we have wilfully created a massive problem in our starting 11 for the upcoming season.
It's bizarre to have so much depth in one position then big gaps elsewhere, not exactly sensible planning and will get worse if we end up replacing amorim
 
It's bizarre to have so much depth in one position then big gaps elsewhere, not exactly sensible planning and will get worse if we end up replacing amorim

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Should we have bought one of the two (Cunha, Mbeumo) and use the money to buy 2 MF or one MF and one GK.
 
It's bizarre to have so much depth in one position then big gaps elsewhere, not exactly sensible planning and will get worse if we end up replacing amorim

Yeah, I was wondering about that. Should we have bought one of the two (Cunha, Mbeumo) and use the money to buy 2 MF or one MF and one GK.
Spot on both of you. The Sesko deal is going to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Just shocks me, out the issues that stare us in the face, we’re throwing our remaining eggs at a 22 year old striker.

I really can’t imagine what this (potentially) new 215m pound frontline is going to do when our midfield gets sliced like butter through hot knife, meanwhile not being able to get out from the back and not getting service. I can already see the desperation set in, the long balls shooting across the sky like it’s fecking rockets.

I do want Sesko. But it doesn’t change the fact we’re building a team akin to a racehorse on a rocky trail. It’s going to end up poorly.
 
Think long medium to long term we need someone who can keep things ticking over, and will develop there game over time.

Long term perhaps they partner Mainoo, but whoever it is needs to be able to do a bit of everything.

Profile wise someone like Mousa Dembélé ex Tottenham comes to mind or a player with that profile:

High intensity
Press resistant
Can play facing his own goal
wins high % 50/50s
Doesnt hold onto the ball
Can play a high tempo passes

Is there someone on the market like this?

Not seen anything of Beleba but you are talking Caicedo money. Wharton perhaps has the technical profile, but does he have that high intensity physicality, is he winning those 50/50s? Does Kone have the physicality for the Premier League looking even further ahead?

Its not an easy one

There was a young Mousa Dembele in France, Amadou Kone but he just got snapped up by a Saudi club. Was shocked he went there as he's 20 and has a profile that would appeal to any top 6 club in the big leagues.

If we assume INEOS are not going to throw money at Baleba next year and rather buy someone cheaper who they can mould, someone like Djaoui Cisse could be very interesting if he develops further at Rennes. And funny enough, on Fbref, one of the most similar players to him is Baleba.
 
Is Baleba and Wharton our dream midfield?

Selling Bruno and Casemiro to the Saudis is the solution to achieve it.
 
Baleba and Kone could sort our CDM for next decade. Next summer we build the other side of midfield with Mainoo and ???.
 
Is Baleba and Wharton our dream midfield?

Selling Bruno and Casemiro to the Saudis is the solution to achieve it.

We have been trying to sell Casemiro to Saudi for 12 months now. They don't want him - they have standards!
 
Spot on both of you. The Sesko deal is going to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Just shocks me, out the issues that stare us in the face, we’re throwing our remaining eggs at a 22 year old striker.

I really can’t imagine what this (potentially) new 215m pound frontline is going to do when our midfield gets sliced like butter through hot knife, meanwhile not being able to get out from the back and not getting service. I can already see the desperation set in, the long balls shooting across the sky like it’s fecking rockets.

I do want Sesko. But it doesn’t change the fact we’re building a team akin to a racehorse on a rocky trail. It’s going to end up poorly.
Thank you for your attention to this matter Sir Jim. Please keep cooking.
 
Looks more and more likely that we will sign Baleba which is a great move in the right direction.
Looks likely also that Bruno will stay so I wonder if developing Mainoo as Baleba partner long term would result in Bruno being used as a RWB at times this season?
We’ve a load of AM (also think that is Diallos best role) and if Bruno was our RWB with Dalot as understudy I think we’ve better balance and more sustained control from CM with Mainoo and Baleba partnership.
Thoughts?
 
Looks more and more likely that we will sign Baleba which is a great move in the right direction.
Looks likely also that Bruno will stay so I wonder if developing Mainoo as Baleba partner long term would result in Bruno being used as a RWB at times this season?
We’ve a load of AM (also think that is Diallos best role) and if Bruno was our RWB with Dalot as understudy I think we’ve better balance and more sustained control from CM with Mainoo and Baleba partnership.
Thoughts?
RWB???
 
Looks more and more likely that we will sign Baleba which is a great move in the right direction.
Looks likely also that Bruno will stay so I wonder if developing Mainoo as Baleba partner long term would result in Bruno being used as a RWB at times this season?
We’ve a load of AM (also think that is Diallos best role) and if Bruno was our RWB with Dalot as understudy I think we’ve better balance and more sustained control from CM with Mainoo and Baleba partnership.
Thoughts?
Probably the most bonkers thing I’ve ever read
 
Probably the most bonkers thing I’ve ever read
No extra charge KKK (think David Beckham type role)


DONNARUMMA
(Schmeichel)

Yoro GUEHLI Heaven
(Rio). (Stam). (Silvestre)

Fernandes Mainoo BALEBA Dorgu
(Beckham). (Scholes). (Keane). (Sharpe)

Mbeumo Cunha
(Giggs). (Rooney)

Šeško
(Ibra)
 
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Looks more and more likely that we will sign Baleba which is a great move in the right direction.
Looks likely also that Bruno will stay so I wonder if developing Mainoo as Baleba partner long term would result in Bruno being used as a RWB at times this season?
We’ve a load of AM (also think that is Diallos best role) and if Bruno was our RWB with Dalot as understudy I think we’ve better balance and more sustained control from CM with Mainoo and Baleba partnership.
Thoughts?
Not bonkers at all, but sticking Bruno there is counter productive.

You might be surprised based on what we read on redcaf, but Bruno is best in the middle of the park where he can direct play. He can do this from cm or am.

He’s our only player with the vision to do this currently, besides Mount who maybe could as well, and who
can see a pass that defeats a defence.

With a two man midfield, there’s always going to be a lack of something. The 10’s and cb’s have to take responsibility for some of that to make it work.

I can see two of Baleba, Bruno and Mainoo work well together. Ugarte has been inconsistent and a disappointment.
 
God knows we want Baleba, and it’s pointless to discuss anybody else we haven’t been linked to. But I hope we have a Plan B- we must.

Amadou Onana fits the mold- joke of an athlete, a total unit, does everything you could ask out of destroyer that can run for days too, and with enough carrying in his game to complement the now and tomorrow’s midfield pairing.

His price should be half of Baleba’s, Villa is desperate for cash, and they have enough midfielders to do without him.

I’d be as happy with Onana if the chase for Baleba falls through.
 
God knows we want Baleba, and it’s pointless to discuss anybody else we haven’t been linked to. But I hope we have a Plan B- we must.

Amadou Onana fits the mold- joke of an athlete, a total unit, does everything you could ask out of destroyer that can run for days too, and with enough carrying in his game to complement the now and tomorrow’s midfield pairing.

His price should be half of Baleba’s, Villa is desperate for cash, and they have enough midfielders to do without him.

I’d be as happy with Onana if the chase for Baleba falls through.
That’s not a bad shout
 
Baleba and Bruno seem to compliment each other well on paper:

https ://i.imgur . com/bMwk322.png

(I don't have image privileges, so you need to fix the link above to see the stat-radar image)