What next for Ryan Giggs?

[MaxZorin]

Sorry im not continuing this.

Proceeds to 'continue this'...

Calling Kluivert a "random" player is really ignorant. He was one of the best strikers of his generation and he was very good in Barcelona.

I'm sure he was, but, let's be honest here, his profile isn't anywhere near as Giggs' is. Ask people who you know don't follow football. They'll know, and have known, Giggs inside out and not Kluivert.

Anyway, the point is being laboured, hung onto as 'proof' when it just seems to be deliberately misunderstood for effect.

Kluivert was originally invoked for the sake of whataboutery, anyway, his presence in our topic was not introduced by me.

Time to stay on point and move on.

Yea i tend to agree. I was thinking it might have been the whole injunction thing

If you remember, it was a Lib Dem politician breaking parliamentary procedure to name Giggs.

Previously, it had been 'footballer takes out injunction against whatsherface' and people speculated on the footballer's identity.

Giggs being unmasked as the culprit was a huge surprise.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The best thing he can do is disappear and enjoy his millions without doing interviews to try and rebuild his image.

You’re a football legend, you’ve got nothing to prove and everyone knows the damage he’s inflicted on people close to him - just respectfully go away. That would be the right thing to do.

That’s the bottom line. When you’ve been exposed as the sort of person who’ll do what Giggs did then continuing to pursue a career where you’ll have a very high profile is just asking for trouble.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

The


The obvious point was Giggs' public persona made him a much larger celebrity than Kluivert.

Most people wouldn't know who Patrick Kluivert is or was. They'd have known all about Giggsy and before the truth was revealed.

Football doesn't only exist in the UK.

Most people outside the UK won't really know what Giggs did.

 

[Ayoba]

The problem with Giggs is more nuanced because he carefully built up a favourable public profile. Everyone loved 'Giggsy' and why wouldn't they? Quiet, unassuming and incredibly successful, it was all tarnished by the revelations.

Put simply, people feel as though he has cheated them and, to an extent, he absolutely has.

Barton was always a you know what. Kluivert is, well, who? Random Chelsea player has absolutely no public identity outside of the game.

I'm not justifying any of those players or downplaying their actions, just explaining why I think Giggs' case is viewed differently.

How do you not know Patrick Kluivert??

 

[MaxZorin]

This is it. If you’re going to admit people through the lens of their private life, then it isn’t a premier league hall of fame - it’s a popularity contest and the whole thing falls down. Either do it right or don’t bother with it.

I'd not bother with it, personally, as it throws up these type of torturous conversations.

How do you not know Patrick Kluivert??

I obviously do, chief.

Football doesn't only exist in the UK.

Never said it did.

Most people outside the UK won't really know what Giggs did.

Well, like everyone else, they're in for a surprise when they find out...

 

[SirAF]

Watched this last night, and really enjoyed it. I love the small nuggets, such as Giggs mentioning hearing Ferguson's cough in the hallway which prompted him to head in the opposite direction

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Why does everyone act as if the affair with his brother's wife is what caused Giggs's fall from grace?

Fans were still singing his name and he was celebrated by the club and the league long after the details of the affair came out. AFAIK he only became a "persona non grata" after the legal allegations, which he was cleared of after having his day in court.

 

[Red in STL]

Why does everyone act as if the affair with his brother's wife is what caused Giggs's fall from grace?

Fans were still singing his name and he was celebrated by the club and the league long after the details of the affair came out. AFAIK he only became a "persona non grata" after the legal allegations, which he was cleared of after having his day in court.

I think the tipping point was the super injunction, trying to male sure his image/brand wasn't tarnished, he tried to stop anyone knowing about all the bad shit he had done, if he'd held his hand up and said "I did some bad shit and I'm sorry" the fallout would have been way less

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I think the tipping point was the super injunction, trying to male sure his image/brand wasn't tarnished, he tried to stop anyone knowing about all the bad shit he had done, if he'd held his hand up and said "I did some bad shit and I'm sorry" the fallout would have been way less

That was in 2011 though. Giggs didn't become this hated figure that he is now (to the point where even the league considers him too toxic to be named in the Hall of Fame) until a few years back.

 

[Spoony]

The problem with Giggs is more nuanced because he carefully built up a favourable public profile. Everyone loved 'Giggsy' and why wouldn't they? Quiet, unassuming and incredibly successful, it was all tarnished by the revelations.

Put simply, people feel as though he has cheated them and, to an extent, he absolutely has.

Barton was always a you know what. Kluivert is, well, who? Random Chelsea player has absolutely no public identity outside of the game.

I'm not justifying any of those players or downplaying their actions, just explaining why I think Giggs' case is viewed differently.

 

[Reds Under The Bed]

The most successful player in the history of the Premier League being absent from the Premier League's Hall of Fame is ludicrous, even more so if the reason is because of a non-footballing related court case that resulted in him not being found guilty of anything.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The most successful player in the history of the Premier League being absent from the Premier League's Hall of Fame is ludicrous, even more so if the reason is because of a non-footballing related court case that resulted in him not being found guilty of anything.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Everyone in here is talking about his affair with his brother's wife as if that's the reason he's perceived the way he is now. It was a ghastly thing to do, yes, but everyone's known about it since 2011 and he was still being celebrated and having his name sung by the fans well into his retirement.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I'd not bother with it, personally, as it throws up these type of torturous conversations.



I obviously do, chief.



Never said it did.



Well, like everyone else, they're in for a surprise when they find out...

They probably won't care. Not everyone is part of the moral police, fans abroad don't really seem concerned about this type of stuff. Greenwood, Alonso and many other players have managed to continue their career. Only fans in England seem to care about Giggs as everyone hates United.

 

[moses]

They probably won't care. Not everyone is part of the moral police, fans abroad don't really seem concerned about this type of stuff. Greenwood, Alonso and many other players have managed to continue their career. Only fans in England seem to care about Giggs as everyone hates United.

 

[youngrell]

The most successful player in the history of the Premier League being absent from the Premier League's Hall of Fame is ludicrous, even more so if the reason is because of a non-footballing related court case that resulted in him not being found guilty of anything.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. Everyone in here is talking about his affair with his brother's wife as if that's the reason he's perceived the way he is now. It was a ghastly thing to do, yes, but everyone's known about it since 2011 and he was still being celebrated and having his name sung by the fans well into his retirement.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, his court case coincided with the start of the HOF process, so there was no chance the PL was going to put him in without knowing the outcome of that, it would have been a PR disaster.

I believe he will be included in the next few years now that there’s some time and distance between the case and noise has died down.

 

[Dominant]

Yawns. As expected the self righteous and moral police all came swarming to this thread the moment a poster had the gall to defend Giggs.

Giggs met, knew and screwed Natasha before Rhodri even knew her. Rhodri married her later and even then she was screwing other men including Giggs while married.

In this day and age when infidelity is rampant among the rich and affluent, what is there to get all outraged by? Human beings are all flawed by design. Drop that holier than thou attitude. It’s just so hypocritical.

 

[Zlatan 7]

He should be in there. Isn’t he the most decorated player ever in the league? Played for over a decade for the most successful team. Was a youngster sensation. He’s around the top percentage of most talented players to ever played in the league, and he’s not in the hall of fame. He’s not been convicted of any criminal wrong doing has he that would prevent it?
I’d like someone to put the question to someone in the FA as to why he’s not included. See if they say it’s because of the shagging brothers wife

 

[giggs-beckham]

He should be in there. Isn’t he the most decorated player ever in the league? Played for over a decade for the most successful team. Was a youngster sensation. He’s around the top percentage of most talented players to ever played in the league, and he’s not in the hall of fame. He’s not been convicted of any criminal wrong doing has he that would prevent it?
I’d like someone to put the question to someone in the FA as to why he’s not included. See if they say it’s because of the shagging brothers wife

A little over a decade at 24 years

 

[Stenis87]

I hope and think that as time passes he'll regain much of his esteem as one of the most professional, talented and successful footballers of his era. The things he brought to the team and the fans over so many years and the way he conducted himself as a footballer is second to none. Where so many attacking players today seem to play a robotic statistics game, Giggs would surprise you with imaginative and original play, be it a dribble, an unexpected set piece routine, a cheeky back heel pass or a sublime first touch.

As crappy as his personal actions have been and how you could imagine the impact had been on his family, I think the FA are in no position to play "moral police" and are making fools out of themselves by not acknowledging maybe the greatest player ever of their own top flight league.

 

[duffer]

As crappy as his personal actions have been and how you could imagine the impact had been on his family, I think the FA are in no position to play "moral police" and are making fools out of themselves by not acknowledging maybe the greatest player ever of their own top flight league.

What have the FA done?

 

[Pickle85]

Yawns. As expected the self righteous and moral police all came swarming to this thread the moment a poster had the gall to defend Giggs.

Giggs met, knew and screwed Natasha before Rhodri even knew her. Rhodri married her later and even then she was screwing other men including Giggs while married.

In this day and age when infidelity is rampant among the rich and affluent, what is there to get all outraged by? Human beings are all flawed by design. Drop that holier than thou attitude. It’s just so hypocritical.

Yeah, how dare people say that Giggs banging his brother's wife is icky and immoral.

I don't think anyone is particularly outraged, just outlining why what Giggs did was pretty appalling. If you don't agree, I'd argue you need to recalibrate your moral compass. Whatever, quit with meaningless non sequiturs like 'humans are flawed by design', as they don't sound half as clever as you seem to think they do. Also, your hero really doesn't need your defense, you know? He's survived the scandal of shagging his brother's wife and allegedly beating up his own girlfriend just fine.

 

[Stenis87]

What have the FA done?

As far as I've gathered he is being excluded from the Premier League Hall of Fame.

 

[Ghirahim]

He really wanted the United job.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Yawns. As expected the self righteous and moral police all came swarming to this thread the moment a poster had the gall to defend Giggs.

Giggs met, knew and screwed Natasha before Rhodri even knew her. Rhodri married her later and even then she was screwing other men including Giggs while married.

In this day and age when infidelity is rampant among the rich and affluent, what is there to get all outraged by? Human beings are all flawed by design. Drop that holier than thou attitude. It’s just so hypocritical.

It would only be hypocritical if the people criticising his behaviour are banging their siblings spouse in real life. I for one know I’m not.

The fact that he met and slept with her before his brother married her is irrelevant, once that happened he should’ve known that she’s off limit out of respect for his brother. But since you’ve made clear how comfortable you are with that I can only assume that you would be cool with it happening in your personal life as well.

And that’s before we get to the abuse allegations.

 

[Kag]

Since when did recognising and acknowledging that behaviour is poor mean that you are part of a ‘moral police’ force?

Nobody appears to be preventing him from seeking employment in football.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

The most successful player in the history of the Premier League being absent from the Premier League's Hall of Fame is ludicrous, even more so if the reason is because of a non-footballing related court case that resulted in him not being found guilty of anything.

Even more so when they inducted John Terry into the Hall of Fame. Either take a stance on ex-players having to be a role model, or don't. Inducting Terry just makes a mockery of the whole thing.

 

[Kag]

Even more so when they inducted John Terry into the Hall of Fame. Either take a stance on ex-players having to be a role model, or don't. Inducting Terry just makes a mockery of the whole thing.

My assumption is that most folk would agree that Giggs should be inducted into the Premier League Hall of Fame.

 

[duffer]

As far as I've gathered he is being excluded from the Premier League Hall of Fame.

What does that have to do with the FA?

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

My assumption is that most folk would agree that Giggs should be inducted into the Premier League Hall of Fame.

Well he’s not been on four consecutive nominees list, so I’m not sure about that. Yes, objectively, he should, but people don’t seem inclined to include him in the process.


And frankly speaking, after he wasn’t in the first round of induction, does it really matter? As more and more Utd players get in, eventually he will be as well, even though it does make a mockery of the process.

 

[sullydnl]

Yawns. As expected the self righteous and moral police all came swarming to this thread the moment a poster had the gall to defend Giggs.

Giggs met, knew and screwed Natasha before Rhodri even knew her. Rhodri married her later and even then she was screwing other men including Giggs while married.

In this day and age when infidelity is rampant among the rich and affluent, what is there to get all outraged by? Human beings are all flawed by design. Drop that holier than thou attitude. It’s just so hypocritical.

Accusations of a "holier than thou" attitude only make sense if directed at people who aren't in fact morally superior to Ryan Giggs.

When in reality if someone hasn't cheated on a partner, or hasn't cheated on every partner they've ever had, or hasn't slept with their sibling's partner, then they quite likely can absolutely claim to be morally superior to Ryan Giggs.

And that's without even getting into people's thoughts on the much more serious domestic abuse allegations that were levelled against him. If someone believes those were possibly or likely true, the bar for being morally superior to Ryan Giggs falls extremely low.

People who don't do very scummy things aren't obliged to act like doing very scummy things is normal just because "we're all flawed". Most normal people aren't that flawed, and there's nothing remotely hypocritical about them criticising Giggs.

 

[Donut]

He must be in the Kevin Spacey / Louie CK category of canceled.

 

[Snow]

He must be in the Kevin Spacey / Louie CK category of canceled.

Huge difference there, both in terms of offence and employment.

 

[stevoc]

The most successful player in the history of the Premier League being absent from the Premier League's Hall of Fame is ludicrous, even more so if the reason is because of a non-footballing related court case that resulted in him not being found guilty of anything.

Especially as John ''Full Kit Wanker'' Terry is in there. He turned up to his Hall of Fame induction wearing medals.

 

[Stenis87]

What does that have to do with the FA?

As far as I know the Premier League Hall of Fame is an initiative from the Premier League which is managed by the Football Association. If I'm mistaken in this, I'd happily be corrected.

 

[duffer]

As far as I know the Premier League Hall of Fame is an initiative from the Premier League which is managed by the Football Association. If I'm mistaken in this, I'd happily be corrected.

You're mistaken. The FA has nothing to do with the Premier League Hall of Fame, which is a new thing made up by the Premier League only a few years ago and is basically a worthless online list.

The National Football Museum (which is a partner of the FA) has had an actual Hall of Fame that you can visit for a couple of decades. Ryan Giggs is in it. https://nationalfootballmuseum.com/halloffame/ryan-giggs/

 

[antohan]

Giggs met, knew and screwed Natasha before Rhodri even knew her. Rhodri married her later and even then she was screwing other men including Giggs while married.

When you put it like that, I feel left out

 

[JediSith]

It really is. How passing judgement on a consensual sexual relationship is anyone’s fecking business is beyond me. We all do far more reprehensible things than shag people we shouldn’t all the time.

Did his brother consent to Giggs shagging his missus ? Like if you betray your own brother, and then turn your mother against him once the affair is discovered that says a lot.

I think Giggs is a despicable person who has no code of ethics, most likely he uses his wealth/ status to emotionally manipulate and control those close to him

Anyone who betrays their own blood isn’t someone you can trust.

 

[Donut]

Huge difference there, both in terms of offence and employment.

Yes, I mean in terms of how heavily canceled they got. These guys got canceled hard, no way back for them. And I’m not saying they didn’t deserve it, just saying that their professional life is finished.

 

[Snow]

Yes, I mean in terms of how heavily canceled they got. These guys got canceled hard, no way back for them. And I’m not saying they didn’t deserve it, just saying that their professional life is finished.

That's not true is what I'm saying. Louis CK is doing a world tour and has many sold out out events in the US and Europe. He's doing fine now. He bore the brunt of it as he was one of the first big names to be outed in these scandals but he owned up to it and really had already owned up to it before he was outed for his masturbations.

He lost a lot but his career isn't over.

Spacey's career is over because he's a much more heinous criminal. Even I had heard a first hand account of his doings way before he was outed. It's good that he's not coming back. He hasn't done any time for his crimes.

 

[Tarrou]

He really wanted the United job.

that's no excuse to take it out on the mrs though mate