What should be done with City's titles?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Let them keep them, the rest of the footballing world have long known they were bullshit.
Strip them and not awarded. Boot them down the football leagues and job done.
Option A , if you win a title you want to be in the stadium with the team for the run in and the big celebration when you win it or with your mates in the pub. It just wouldn`t be right if you couldn`t be there to enjoy it. It would be shit for the players too, imagine missing out on lifting the trophy in the stadium in front of all the fans.
This should be the outcome, makes no sense to just fine them and deduct some points.
Hmm... this is very interesting. Would be interesting to see how that would pan out, and how much it'd affect Europe and relegation on top of who might actually have won the league.
I thought i'd look at 2013/14 and think Arsenal rather than Chelsea would have finished 2nd to liverpool, as Chelsea beat city twice.
Sunderland (having beat and drawn against city) would have been 4th bottom, rather than 7th bottom, but obviously not relegated.
I think there titles should be taken off them and be done with it.
Voided is the sensible option if the serious charges are found
Melt down all the winners medals, donate to humanitarian causes and relegate them to Conference North
Strip and void for sure. Giving to 2nd place feels off tbh and not like a real win. They definitely should be stripped though. It would be a farce if they were found guilty to be cheating, but we're allowed to keep the titles.
You can't really reconstruct how those seasons would have gone without City though, cause people will also have gotten yellow/red cards and injuries in matches against City that then influenced subsequent matches, and so on. It's a fun thought process and I'd be interested to see the resulting league table if you just completely removed City from each season; but ultimately, it can't really count, City's presence influenced too much. That's why I think that, if their titles are voided, the EPL should just have no winner for those seasons.
Which is also why I don't see it happening. As someone else said, City did have that team and that team did play. It may have been unfair from an financial/administrative point of view, but purely in terms of the football played, City's performances were 'real'. Plus the EPL probably doesn't want to have seasons without champions. So I'd rather expect any punishment to be future-facing: points deducted, transfer ban, relegation - that sort of thing. (Like what happened to Juventus in Italy - although they did actually strip their 2004-05 title and left it empty! But then Juventus had been involved in match fixing, so match outcomes were not 'real' from a footballing perspective.)
Give them the 04-05 Serie A treatment.
A - It’s too far past to feel any joy from being given a title. I think having a void in the history books would act as a better deterrent in the future for anyone to repeat.
I love City's tities.
Perky ones that show when it's a bit cold outside.
Perky ones that show when it's a bit cold outside.
It obviously won't happen but if City's matches were removed for a 36 match league:
2009-10 - Everton EL qualifying round
2010-11 - Arsenal CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Liverpool EL qualifying round. Blackpool would have stayed up with Wolves going down
2011-12 - Man United champions. Spurs CL group place. Newcastle EL group place, Everton EL qualifying round
2012-13 - Arsenal CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Liverpool EL qualifying round
2013-14 - Liverpool champions. Arsenal CL group place, Everton CL qualifying round. Spurs EL group place, Man United EL qualifying round
2014-15 - Man United CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Southampton EL group place, Swansea EL qualifying round
2015-16 - Man United CL qualifying round. West Ham EL group place, Liverpool EL qualifying round
2016-17 - Arsenal would move above Liverpool into CL group place. Everton EL group place, Bournemouth EL qualifying round
2017-18 - Man United champions. Chelsea CL group place. Burnley EL group place, Everton EL qualifying round
2009-10 - Everton EL qualifying round
2010-11 - Arsenal CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Liverpool EL qualifying round. Blackpool would have stayed up with Wolves going down
2011-12 - Man United champions. Spurs CL group place. Newcastle EL group place, Everton EL qualifying round
2012-13 - Arsenal CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Liverpool EL qualifying round
2013-14 - Liverpool champions. Arsenal CL group place, Everton CL qualifying round. Spurs EL group place, Man United EL qualifying round
2014-15 - Man United CL group place, Spurs CL qualifying round. Southampton EL group place, Swansea EL qualifying round
2015-16 - Man United CL qualifying round. West Ham EL group place, Liverpool EL qualifying round
2016-17 - Arsenal would move above Liverpool into CL group place. Everton EL group place, Bournemouth EL qualifying round
2017-18 - Man United champions. Chelsea CL group place. Burnley EL group place, Everton EL qualifying round
I would actually much more prefer point deduction, transfer ban and ban from playing in Europe than demotion to Championship. Because if that happens, they will "steal" one promotion place back into the P.L and they would be back the season after.
Imagine something like this. Ban from Europe for 3 years and point deduction of respectively 30, 20 and 10 points over the next 3 seasons and transfer ban for 48 months.
Imagine something like this. Ban from Europe for 3 years and point deduction of respectively 30, 20 and 10 points over the next 3 seasons and transfer ban for 48 months.
This
Let them keep their titles and let them know, it’s league 1 next season.. They can even win the league and qualify for the champions league but they’ll be participating from League 1.
I'll take them. My mantle only has a couple of seashells on it, could use a few more ornaments.
For every offence proven in a season, they should be deducted points. I think 3 might be too lenient, perhaps 5.
So that would be a 15 point deduction in many of those seasons. Its about time financial doping was called out properly and good on the premier league for doing it. They should also be relegated to the championship and have a further relegation for further offences.
They must think the charges are cast iron surely, before going head long into this action. A 4 year investigation is completely comprehensive.
I think, unfortunately, they will come away with a huge fine and a suspended punishment
So that would be a 15 point deduction in many of those seasons. Its about time financial doping was called out properly and good on the premier league for doing it. They should also be relegated to the championship and have a further relegation for further offences.
They must think the charges are cast iron surely, before going head long into this action. A 4 year investigation is completely comprehensive.
I think, unfortunately, they will come away with a huge fine and a suspended punishment
Awarded to the 2nd place team. All trace of them erased from the records. Looking back in years to come, their name will be forgotten.
Who cares if Liverpool get 3 more, so do we. We're still one ahead either way.
Who cares if Liverpool get 3 more, so do we. We're still one ahead either way.
They should be melted down
And no I'm not referring to the trophies
And no I'm not referring to the trophies
I'd love to see them stripped and given to second place, just so I or someone else can create a little gif.
The Aguero moment cut short before the goal, cut to Fergie laughing image with the commentary "oh so close" and then show the United team lifting the Premier League trophy and celebrating.
Yes it's petty but I think it'd be hilarious
The Aguero moment cut short before the goal, cut to Fergie laughing image with the commentary "oh so close" and then show the United team lifting the Premier League trophy and celebrating.
Yes it's petty but I think it'd be hilarious
Let them keep the titles but have an asterisks next to them forever in history to shame them for eternity by being a fake, plastic, cheating scum club.
but if they hadn’t of cheated, would they have won the league? Would they be where they are? Probably not, so actually it is unfair on the second placed time who got that taken away from them by cheats.
The fact that united would of won it three times if it wasn’t for these feckers is infuriating
Would that make the players jump ship?
Anything involving huge fines and suspended punishments,City may as well just laugh in the faces of Premier League.
I'm obviously in the extreme minority here, but let them keep their accolades. We see this sometimes in the US, especially in collegiate sports. Vacating titles and trophies is such a hollow gesture. You can change who is listed as champions in the history books but nothing changes what happened on the pitch, and we must begrudgingly admit that they were the best club when they won those titles.
It'd be one thing if they were somehow cheating during the games, like the Houston Astros were doing in Major League Baseball...but to retro-actively claim that City weren't champions because people in the front office were cooking the books is pretty pathetic.
Not to mention, this doesn't mean City were the only club doing it, it just means they were the only one that got caught right now.
If they get their titles taken away and we're awarded what, 3 more league titles, would any of you really feel good about proclaiming us champions of those seasons?
It'd be one thing if they were somehow cheating during the games, like the Houston Astros were doing in Major League Baseball...but to retro-actively claim that City weren't champions because people in the front office were cooking the books is pretty pathetic.
Not to mention, this doesn't mean City were the only club doing it, it just means they were the only one that got caught right now.
If they get their titles taken away and we're awarded what, 3 more league titles, would any of you really feel good about proclaiming us champions of those seasons?
Every cup that they were involved in? Since they’d influenced the outcome even if they were eliminated in the first round. So, no FA & League Cup winners since the beginning of the investigation (2009-ish)… poor Arsenal
Option 1.
it will never happen, the size of the legal claim from the relegated clubs and clubs that missed champions league would be enormous
Leave them vacant.
You can’t award to the 2nd place team, it just isn’t right, taking a team out of the league impacts everything. It’s like saying a goal shouldn’t have stood so a game should be ruled a draw, how people react to the scenario is all entirely different without the thing you’re removing.
The 2nd place team would have been under more pressure if they were actually top of the table, who knows if they’d have won the same games they did.
Etc etc.
So basically just scratch the relevant years.
You can’t award to the 2nd place team, it just isn’t right, taking a team out of the league impacts everything. It’s like saying a goal shouldn’t have stood so a game should be ruled a draw, how people react to the scenario is all entirely different without the thing you’re removing.
The 2nd place team would have been under more pressure if they were actually top of the table, who knows if they’d have won the same games they did.
Etc etc.
So basically just scratch the relevant years.
Utd fans wanting to hand titles to Liverpool? Bloody hell.
No winners those seasons or do nothing.
Presuming they're relegated, possibly with a points deduction,that's enough.
No winners those seasons or do nothing.
Presuming they're relegated, possibly with a points deduction,that's enough.
If it was up to me, let them keep their bought titles, but expel them from the PL indefinitely.
They've disgraced the Premier League.
Tarnished the credibility of British football by cheating. Over 100 years of football sullied by allowing a plastic club to be a vehicle for a middle Eastern state.
It's s greed meets and tradition and shame on all the apologists.
Tarnished the credibility of British football by cheating. Over 100 years of football sullied by allowing a plastic club to be a vehicle for a middle Eastern state.
It's s greed meets and tradition and shame on all the apologists.
Option A
Leave an obvious void in those years and remind the future generations on the disgraceful act commited by City. We don't need the handouts, does not add value at all ans potentially leading to more issues to the rest of other teams.
Leave an obvious void in those years and remind the future generations on the disgraceful act commited by City. We don't need the handouts, does not add value at all ans potentially leading to more issues to the rest of other teams.
Yeah I voted for void too
Prem don't have bollocks to take the titles away......major points deduction and transfer ban ...then again.....depends on exactly what they did and for how long, how deep it went....if it's really bad I say they get relegated to the championship plus transfer ban. See how Haaland like Citeh then?
Void those titles. Any other option makes no sense to me
So you guys want to give Liverpool some additional titles?