What should the expectations be for next season?

sullydnl

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Saw Daniel Sturridge ask Keane/Neville the question the other day in relation to the manager decision, and am curious to see what people think the goal should be for next season.

Having likely finished 3rd this season, but with the caveat of only having the league to focus on, what should the expectations for next season be under whoever we appoint as manager? What would be a good season in your eyes what would be a disappointing season?
 
More than anything, I'd like to see this team evolve in terms of the football we play, so that it starts looking like a top side, technically, physically, and in terms of game management. I'd like to see the side amass +75 points in the league and position itself for being ready to truly fight for everything the following season. But to do this Carrick has to be absolutely the right head coach for the long term or a good enough bridge from now until next summer, and as such, build towards a dominant style of play.
 
We should be aiming to win the league.

That might sound silly because we're really not a great team, but nor is anyone around us. City and Arsenal are the top two, and neither of them are really that strong at the moment. Neville was right when he said this, the league is there to win because although the PL is strong all around, the top isn't. These City and Arsenal teams aren't legendary teams, they're decent, fallible teams that we can beat.

Minimum goal should be top four. If we finish out of the top four then I think we've failed
 
Personally I'd be content with finishing in the top five and qualifying for the CL again next season, as being able to do so in a year in which we're not solely focused on the league would represent progress on this year.

Do that while trying to play a brand of football I believe can plausibly compete for the league regularly in the future, and I'll be happy with how the new manager is doing.

Whereas if they drop out of CL again or play a type of football I don't buy into, then their job should be under scrutiny.
 
We will win the league, we just need to spend with convictions in the summer + have Carrick for continuity. Arsenal will burn out, City without Rodri is a shell, Liverpool it's their dark days, Chelsea need a new owner firstly more than anything else.

So we have a shot, we just need to be how we've been with Carrick in 10 games, win 7, draw 2, lose 1

Buy -
  • Touchameni - 70m​
  • Matheus fernandes - 50m​
  • hugo larsson - 40m​
  • A Stiller - 40m​
=200m

  • Harry Wilson from Fulham as a free transfer - his 10 league goals is in the range of Cunha. Right wing options.


Sell
  • Holjund - 38m
  • Urgate - 35m
  • Rashford - 15m
  • Onana - 15m or even for free
  • Zirkzee - should be sold if a striker is bought. If not he stays.
= 100m

Clear from wage bill
  • Sancho
  • Casemiro
  • Rashford
  • Urgate
  • Malacia
  • Onana
  • 1.5m a week saving
After sale, sign CB/LCB cover.


Perfect window, even the club will be healthy
 
sullydnl said:
Personally I'd be content with finishing in the top five and qualifying for the CL again next season, as being able to do so in a year in which we're not solely focused on the league would represent progress on this year.

Do that while trying to play a brand of football I believe can plausibly compete for the league regularly in the future, and I'll be happy with how the new manager is doing.

Whereas if they drop out of CL again or play a type of football I don't buy into, then their job should be under scrutiny.
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Establishing ourselves as regulars in CL again has to be the priority which will help us build quality and depth over the next 2 to 3 years. Anything else is a bonus.

So 5th with some good cup runs, particularly in the CL, would be progress.

Losing casemiro basically means our primary CM signing, which will likely cost 80+ million, won't move the needle much at all. By the time we've bought 1 or even 2 more in CM there won't be much left to improve the first team. Improving the squad enough to not get embarrassed in the cups has to come first.
 
sullydnl said:
Personally I'd be content with finishing in the top five and qualifying for the CL again next season, as being able to do so in a year in which we're not solely focused on the league would represent progress on this year.

Do that while trying to play a brand of football I believe can plausibly compete for the league regularly in the future, and I'll be happy with how the new manager is doing.

Whereas if they drop out of CL again or play a type of football I don't buy into, then their job should be under scrutiny.
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Exactly this. A finish in the CL places while focused on multiple competitions and bedding in a new midfield would be a strong aim. Two deep domestic cup runs and getting into the quarters or semis of the CL, given the relative youth of our squad, would signal that we're ready to challenge for the title the year after.

I wish we could get Bruno a title, but I don't know if it's going to happen.
 
Top 4, there is stil a lot of rubbish in the squad, we're miles off a title fight, win one of the domestic cups, and a good run in the Champions League, but if we fluke that even better
 
I see a lot of fans getting carried away that we'd have been top of the league or close if Carrick managed the whole season. It doesn't really work like that, the new manager bounce generally doesn't last 38 games from start to end, variance evens out more over a larger sample of games and our results have been better than the performances, that over-performance is hard to maintain across a whole season.

As much as people slate Arsenal and City's current level, Arsenal may still get 85 points, which is not an impressive points haul but it's also fairly standard total that is out of reach of anyone who isn't genuine title contender quality - there's very little chance we were getting 85 points this season at our current level.

As for next season, I'd be happy to replicate the ~70 ish points and get top 5 again. The reason being, finishing on 70 points while having basically no cup competition games is not the same as finishing on 70 points playing an extra 15-20 cup games. The lack of preparation time for your league games, the extra injuries, extra fatigue is a challenge that not many of our fans want to acknowledge as they're too busy getting excited that we're just as good as City and Arsenal.

Any gains we make in the transfer window are going to be at least partially offset by the extra games we'll have to play. I'd be surprised if we could jump to title contention. Also our fans are assuming City/Arsenal are stuck at their current level, they're just as likely to improve their team in the summer as we are.
 
Finish top 5 and be competitive in the cups

It's a different world of challenge actually playing in the cups. This season is definitely easy mode. But also expectations change based on signings, but my guess is just top 5 is good
 
Main target is for the board to continue moulding the squad profile in line with recent approach.

Manager target is aim for 3rd again, perhaps close the gap on 1st. CL 5th is minimum acceptable.

Reasonable cup runs. No abhorrent showings and early knockouts.

CL knockout stages. Seeded playoffs minimum.

Together, team moving forward. Retain positivity. Younger players growing in experience. All toward the years after picking up the challenge.
 
3rd / 4th / Knockout rounds, whatever. We keep focusing on these things that don’t matter in the long run.

I want see someone implement front foot dominant / progressive / modern / attacking football that isn’t rooted in the past. We aren’t achieving anything special by playing the way we tend to.

And trophies - it is what you play for.

Obviously we need to recruit well etc that goes without saying
 
Ibi Dreams said:
We should be aiming to win the league.
Click to expand...

We can aim for this but this should not be the expectation from fans unless we are 10 points ahead with 5 games to go

Minimum expectation should be a comfortable top 4 finish, going far in one of the domestic cups, and being more comfortable with dominating play. This is dependent on transfers of course.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
3rd / 4th / Knockout rounds, whatever. We keep focusing on these things that don’t matter in the long run.

I want see someone implement front foot dominant / progressive / modern / attacking football that isn’t rooted in the past. We aren’t achieving anything special by playing the way we tend to.

And trophies - it is what you play for.

Obviously we need to recruit well etc that goes without saying
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I think multiple managers now have achieved decent seasons with us with a similar blueprint - standard 4231, being strong on the counter/quick attacking transitions, keep a decent midblock shape out of possession, don't do anything crazy in terms of pressing/high line, not too bothered about possession, not great at breaking down low blocks. Mourinho, Ole, ETH and Carrick have all got top 4 finishes doing this.

Whenever these managers have stepped out of line and tried to do something different or more ambitious with the players they had, it's all fallen apart. It's possible they don't know how to coach anything else, or it's possible they just keep trying to implement something that the players aren't capable of or suited to.

My concern is there's 4 quite big weaknesses in this squad - overall technical level throughout, lack of attacking quality at full back, lack of legs in midfield, and lack of pace in defence. I don't see how we resolve all that in one window, and therefore we may end up yet again trying to implement a style that isn't suited to the squad. If results did then suffer, the dressing room meltdown then usually follows.

For that reason, I would be content with another season of Oleball but just do a better version than we're currently seeing. But at some point the squad weaknesses have to be addressed such that a transition towards a better style of football can work out for us.

The recruitment team also need to be conscious of this in their decisions also, I would hope for example in 2026 and beyond we wouldn't sign AWB and Maguire for 130m who are the antithesis of the players you want if you're aiming to play progressive football.
 
I think its good to have a minimum and peak target. Last summer nobody was expecting us to finish 3rd and be a few extra wins away from 2nd.

As a squad Id like to see us continue with winning good, bad or ugly. Dominate in bursts. I feel that winning character was a ‘United way’, a culture Fergie instilled and something Carrick can foster.
Rooney saying Arsenal celebrating too soon is an example of this.
 
Dominos said:
I think multiple managers now have achieved decent seasons with us with a similar blueprint - standard 4231, being strong on the counter/quick attacking transitions, keep a decent midblock shape out of possession, don't do anything crazy in terms of pressing/high line, not too bothered about possession, not great at breaking down low blocks. Mourinho, Ole, ETH and Carrick have all got top 4 finishes doing this.

Whenever these managers have stepped out of line and tried to do something different or more ambitious with the players they had, it's all fallen apart. It's possible they don't know how to coach anything else, or it's possible they just keep trying to implement something that the players aren't capable of or suited to.

My concern is there's 4 quite big weaknesses in this squad - overall technical level throughout, lack of attacking quality at full back, lack of legs in midfield, and lack of pace in defence. I don't see how we resolve all that in one window, and therefore we may end up yet again trying to implement a style that isn't suited to the squad. If results did then suffer, the dressing room meltdown then usually follows.

For that reason, I would be content with another season of Oleball but just do a better version than we're currently seeing. But at some point the squad weaknesses have to be addressed such that a transition towards a better style of football can work out for us.

The recruitment team also need to be conscious of this in their decisions also, I would hope for example in 2026 and beyond we wouldn't sign AWB and Maguire for 130m who are the antithesis of the players you want if you're aiming to play progressive football.
Click to expand...
And thus continues the cycle. We need change and ambition. With Ole and ETH too, many said they’re playing this way out of necessity and that eventually they’ll play a more modern expansive style of football, which obviously never happened because these things tend to need to built from the start. My concern as it always has been is that every year not headed in the direction of controlling dominant football is another year and a lot of money wasted on the wrong plan. Until that blueprint either comes from the top or the right manager, it’ll never be implemented.
 
At minimum we need to consolidate ourselves as a CL team. For half the season it looked like we weren't going to make it, can't have that again. That plus a deep cup run should be the aim.

QFs of the CL unless we get a terrible draw.

In terms of playstyle I want to see a better plan for buildup and not getting pressured for 20-30 minutes. Right now teams stick 4-5 players in our half and since we lack technical ability from deep, we hoof it long to Sesko who wins, at best, half his aerial duels and we concede possession. I'm hoping our new midfielders will help us eliminate this issue and we'll be able to build attacks under pressure more consistently and eventually discourage opponents from high pressing.
 
The question is seemingly clear but it really isn’t. We can’t know what a realistic expectation for next season is until we know who will be on the team. We don’t yet know the names of three central midfielders. We don’t yet know whether we will be able to offload Rashford and Ugarte, or even Onana. Ask this question in August and we can give a decent answer.

But of the question is what would we find acceptable at a minimum, it would be top three and long runs in each cup. But what I really want is a PL trophy and I hope INEOS realizes that this is the summer to go for it, not to build for something 2-3 seasons from now.
 
Dominos said:
I see a lot of fans getting carried away that we'd have been top of the league or close if Carrick managed the whole season. It doesn't really work like that, the new manager bounce generally doesn't last 38 games from start to end, variance evens out more over a larger sample of games and our results have been better than the performances, that over-performance is hard to maintain across a whole season.

As much as people slate Arsenal and City's current level, Arsenal may still get 85 points, which is not an impressive points haul but it's also fairly standard total that is out of reach of anyone who isn't genuine title contender quality - there's very little chance we were getting 85 points this season at our current level.

As for next season, I'd be happy to replicate the ~70 ish points and get top 5 again. The reason being, finishing on 70 points while having basically no cup competition games is not the same as finishing on 70 points playing an extra 15-20 cup games. The lack of preparation time for your league games, the extra injuries, extra fatigue is a challenge that not many of our fans want to acknowledge as they're too busy getting excited that we're just as good as City and Arsenal.

Any gains we make in the transfer window are going to be at least partially offset by the extra games we'll have to play. I'd be surprised if we could jump to title contention. Also our fans are assuming City/Arsenal are stuck at their current level, they're just as likely to improve their team in the summer as we are.
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New manager bounce doesn’t last more than a game or two. Anyone claiming our good results are down to new manager bounce are delusional.
 
Ole's screen said:
New manager bounce doesn’t last more than a game or two. Anyone claiming our good results are down to new manager bounce are delusional.
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Ole got 4 months of title winning results from December to March during his interim season.

The point being, lifting the mood of the dressing room and giving the players confidence mid-season can result in an upturn in results but you can't extrapolate that to say if Carrick was manager for the full season we'd be on course for 85+ points to win the league. It's possible, but unlikely.
 
Dominos said:
Ole got 4 months of title winning results from December to March during his interim season.

The point being, lifting the mood of the dressing room and giving the players confidence mid-season can result in an upturn in results but you can't extrapolate that to say if Carrick was manager for the full season we'd be on course for 85+ points to win the league. It's possible, but unlikely.
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And he also got 2 whole years of top 3 form after that. Was that also a new manager bounce?

Gee I wonder why other new managers don’t simply choose to win their first 10 games. It’s just a bounce right guys.
 
Depends on our transfer window.

If we actually bring in some technical players, we can compete for the league and probably win our 2nd knockout game in the CL since 2011 depending on who we get.

If we continue to neglect press resistant players, then I expect another season of poor football, no league challenge and maybe a League/FA Cup run.
 
All depending on the recruitement.

If you have 5 good players coming, then :
  1. top 4
  2. qualifiying for the second round of CL
  3. At least a good run in one cup
If recruitement is late/poor, then top 4 is the absolute must.
 
To obtain 10 - 12 points more than we finish with this year, qtr finals or more in 2 out of 3 cups.
 
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The past few seasons has seen very poor return in goal differences because we simply haven't been putting away teams once scoring that 1st goal. Far too many 1 goal margin victories which makes it nervous at the end. We also tend to let teams back far too often (see last weekend).
We need to stop defending so deep. Until we push the defence up further the nervousness will remain. A brand new midfield will help. So the minimum required is a cup, a UCL spot and more dominant league performances. The period between August and Xmas has been awful these past years..lets improve on that too.
 
Regardless of what happens this summer, I think it's pretty unlikely that we'll go into next season with a better squad than any of Arsenal, City or Liverpool and, assuming the latter sorts their managerial situation out (Alonso?), all three will be favourites to finish ahead of us next year.

We're currently 12 points off the top with three games to play. My guess is that if Carrick is appointed as the permanent manager, we'll find ourselves further than 12 points from the top at this point next season. After that, there will probably be a big group of sides competing for the remaining European places and I expect we'll be somewhere in that mix, probably in the 4th-7th zone. I'd take UCL qualification next season if you offered it to me now.
 
Top 4
CL quarters
Get past the third round in the cup
Keep evolving the style of play

Basically I want to see us successfully juggle 3 competitions, solidify top 4/CL qualification, and play better football. Anything above that is a bonus.
 
Realistically we should aim for top 4 again but playing a much better brand of football than we do today.

I believe we need another 2-3 summers to become really competitive as we need a midfield overhaul, new fullbacks and a backup striker at the very least. I think with our finances we can't cover everything in a single summer.

We also need to consider a number of top teams have been quite poor this season, you'd expect the likes of Liverpool and Chelsea to try their best to rebound. I also don't think Arsenal or City have been exceptional so they may also improve next season.
 
Control the midfield in more games than not. Having full backs who can actually do their job. Be closer to challenging for the title. And hoping that our attacker players all improve.
 
Ekeke said:
Depends how much we spend but 3rd or 2nd and semi finals of the champions league
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Even if we have a good transfer window this is a big ask.

Since our last final in 2011, we've won one knockout game. That was the PSG one where we were very fortunate that their CB had that brainfart.

You should imagine that we'll qualify from the group stages this time under the new setup, but our record since 2011 is terrible:

11/12: group stage
12/13: last 16
13/14: last 16
15/16: group stage
17/18: last 16
18/19: quarter finals
20/21: group stage
21/22: last 16
23/24: group stage

I think we'll do well to reach the quarters again even if we have a good window
 
Yagami said:
Even if we have a good transfer window this is a big ask.

Since our last final in 2011, we've won one knockout game. That was the PSG one where we were very fortunate that their CB had that brainfart.

You should imagine that we'll qualify from the group stages this time under the new setup, but our record since 2011 is terrible:

11/12: group stage
12/13: last 16
13/14: last 16
15/16: group stage
17/18: last 16
18/19: quarter finals
20/21: group stage
21/22: last 16
23/24: group stage

I think we'll do well to reach the quarters again even if we have a good window
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The Champions League isn't what it used to be. If we get the draw Arsenal have had we could also make the final.
 
Adz_99 said:
The Champions League isn't what it used to be. If we get the draw Arsenal have had we could also make the final.
Click to expand...
Arsenal got that draw by finishing top, though. Maybe we could do it, too, but as I said it's a big ask considering our recent European record.
 
If we can maintain top four and go reasonably far in the cups I'd be happy.

Winning a trophy of any kind would be great.

As always though, it's hard to tell without seeing the summer transfer window.
Two top midfielders and we should be expecting to win a cup, being unable to sell Onana, Ugarte, Zirkzee and Rashford could cause us to stall.
 
Carrick_Ball said:
We will win the league, we just need to spend with convictions in the summer + have Carrick for continuity. Arsenal will burn out, City without Rodri is a shell, Liverpool it's their dark days, Chelsea need a new owner firstly more than anything else.

So we have a shot, we just need to be how we've been with Carrick in 10 games, win 7, draw 2, lose 1

Buy -
  • Touchameni - 70m​
  • Matheus fernandes - 50m​
  • hugo larsson - 40m​
  • A Stiller - 40m​
=200m

  • Harry Wilson from Fulham as a free transfer - his 10 league goals is in the range of Cunha. Right wing options.


Sell
  • Holjund - 38m
  • Urgate - 35m
  • Rashford - 15m
  • Onana - 15m or even for free
  • Zirkzee - should be sold if a striker is bought. If not he stays.
= 100m

Clear from wage bill
  • Sancho
  • Casemiro
  • Rashford
  • Urgate
  • Malacia
  • Onana
  • 1.5m a week saving
After sale, sign CB/LCB cover.


Perfect window, even the club will be healthy
Click to expand...

Have many editions of FM do you own?
 
Not sure. Could be quite open next year. City aren’t anywhere near as strong as they were and Arsenal are the weakest champions in a decade. Liverpool and Chelsea in need of a massive rebuild. If United improve next year by signing quality in the Summer we should expect a title challenge. It could very easily be that we miss out on top 4, very hard to predict.
 
sullydnl said:
Saw Daniel Sturridge ask Keane/Neville the question the other day in relation to the manager decision, and am curious to see what people think the goal should be for next season.

Having likely finished 3rd this season, but with the caveat of only having the league to focus on, what should the expectations for next season be under whoever we appoint as manager? What would be a good season in your eyes what would be a disappointing season?
Click to expand...
Unless INEOS makes 4-5 key transfers, we have little chance of making Champions League positions next year.
 
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