What tactics would work?

[Jericholyte2]

No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

 

[Bubz27]

The tactic of having a competent, football-orientated board coupled with adequate transfer business and a manager who can coach.

Generally, as a tactic, that works well.

 

[Skills]

Getting them to press as a unit, rather than individuals would help a bit. Getting them passing and moving as a team would also help move the ball quicker. Usual shit.

 

[Carl]

No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

If you dont believe this group of players are capable of more than this then what's even the point?

Can you even tell me what our style is? What's our football identity under Ole?

 

[ravi2]

The tactic of having a competent, football-orientated board coupled with adequate transfer business and a manager who can coach.

Generally, as a tactic, that works well.

/thread.

 

[Zen86]

If you dont believe this group of players are capable of more than this then what's even the point?

Can you even tell me what our style is? What's our football identity under Ole?

Its quite obviously counterattacking football.

 

[Carl]

Its quite obviously counterattacking football.

And in the 80% of games we cant counter attack in?

 

[Amadaeus]

Copy paste Nuno Espírito Santo or Chris Wilder tactics since some thinks our squad is shite. They have worse set of players, but they are coached to be hard to beat and take advantage of lapses in opposition gameplan. They would have put on a much better performance

 

[Zen86]

And in the 80% of games we cant counter attack in?

We struggle, because we’re a counterattacking team with little other creativity.

 

[::sonny::]

Having no midfield only long ball from Lindelof Maguire

 

[Enigma_87]

And in the 80% of games we cant counter attack in?

When you buy a Ford Fiesta you can't expect it to run like a Ferrari on the track.

A shite manager gets you to this point. Effort is not enough.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?

None, so what kind of absolute moron of a manager do you have to be to:

a: play them together
b: Sell Fellaini, see Herrera leave, alienate Matic, just to end up with this.
c: not try anything else when the games you tried this before they got humiliated by Sheff United and Aston Villa's midfield.

As for b, Klopp, SAF, Guardiola, Poch etc... all would've found or at least tried another solution, a Phil Jones, Dier etc.

 

[spiriticon]

I don't think there is any sort of tactic which works for us.

The defence is too shite to play a low-press counter attacking game, and the attack is too shite to play a high press possession based game.

We are just too shite in general, lads.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

First, don't play Lingard.

 

[tjb]

Nothing would work. We have no depth in midfield for a 433 and the lack of quality we have in that and the no. 10 position means we still suck with a 4231. Again, we don't have enough midfielders for a diamond and three at the back means that a. our full backs would have to be one of our main sources of attacks ( which is their weakness) and our attack would have less players to create ( creativity is our number one issue).

There is no saving grace.

 

[Bwuk]

We don’t play as a team, our squad plays as individuals.

 

[Leftback99]

One that doesn't need a centre midfield while they are injured.

If you don't have good forwards you struggle to score goals in the PL, if you don't have competent defenders you concede lots.

If you don't have a midfield you don't win many football matches. There's no miracle cure here with what we have.

 

[KjaAnd]

The answer to all of the questions in OP is team pressing. Win the ball back high on the pitch so we don't have to rely on our FB's or non-existent midfield.

We just sit back and wait for teams to get a shot on goal. Even tonight, trailing by two with 10 minutes to go, we don't swarm the player in possession or cut out passing lanes. We just rush back to sit 9 men behind the ball. When our players press, they do so individually which is only useful for wasting energy.

 

[ivaldo]

Copy paste Nuno Espírito Santo or Chris Wilder tactics since some thinks our squad is shite. They have worse set of players, but they are coached to be hard to beat and take advantage of lapses in opposition gameplan. They would have put on a much better performance

We need to be doing much better, but we simply can't play like that. Remember the criticism when we played like that and finished second under Jose?

 

[Zlatattack]

Things I'd like to see coached:

1. Fullbacks running up and putting crosses into the box.
2. Strikers anticipating these crosses and running onto them.
3. Practising set pieces. Can't remember anyone other than Smalling scoring from corners. If the likes of Stoke can utilise them for goals, so should we.
4. Pressing as a team.
5. Staying compact as a team, no huge gaps between midfield and attack or midfield and defence. If we go up or down the pitch we do it together.
6. Quick fast one touch passes.
7. Nobody standing still ever. Attacking players especially should always be on the move, in the gaps between defenders.
8. Patterns of attack, coached sequences like you see in American football. Our boys seem to stop almost to make decisions.
9. An end to backward and sideways passes when out wide. Players should always be available on the overlap.
10. Fast one touch triangles moving the ball around whilst attackers move into space, pulling defenders out of position, making space for attacks on goal.
11. For our number 10 to dribble into the box and take a shot or make a pass to a striker who is actually ahead of him.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Matic with both Fred and Pereira providing the legs are perhaps best option in today's game.

AWB playing inverted FB role, fill up midfield bodies.
James stick to the wing touchline at RW.
Greenwood and Rashford always in and around the box.
Williams often overlap and stick to the touchline at LW.
Fred to cover Will.

Attacking

Will Rash Green James
Pereira
Fred Matic Wall
Jones Lind
DDG​

Defending

(no idea,
perhaps park the bus deep line
Then Counter hard.
Somewhat less effective if we're chasing.
Alternative and ideally is to high press well as a team,
press and mark spaces)​

Maybe.. what do I know. Need good coaching though.

 

[Dan_F]

We need to be doing much better, but we simply can't play like that. Remember the criticism when we played like that and finished second under Jose?

Our football is defensive now. We don’t want the ball. The only difference is that we look to get the ball forward quicker than previously. There’s no high press, no intelligent movement. That’s not quality of players, that’s because they aren’t coached properly.

 

[GeordieRed]

And in the 80% of games we cant counter attack in?

Pray for a moment of individual brilliance

 

[TMDaines]

Tactics are irrelevant long term unless they are built on a coherent strategy.

 

[Feed Me]

Firing squad or gulag.

 

[Dec9003]

No decent manager starts a midfield pairing of Fred and Pereira with Matic sat on the bench, for a start.
We won't ever be world beaters with this squad, but with different team selections we could possibly do more, I think the second half tonight showed that when Ole changed it and we looked better.

 

[liamp]

Bro, nobody here knows the answer to that

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

No decent manager starts a midfield pairing of Fred and Pereira with Matic sat on the bench, for a start.

Especially after Sheffield United away, you have to be one thick shit to try it again after that horror show.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Getting them to press as a unit, rather than individuals would help a bit. Getting them passing and moving as a team would also help move the ball quicker. Usual shit.

Our "press" drives me crazy. If you are going to press then everyone needs to do it. If only a few are going to do it then it's pointless. All that does is open up holes. It really shouldn't be that hard. Our striker and #10 press the middle and our wingers press their FB's. But be on them early. Watching today against City in the first half we would see Rashford, Lingard and Greenwood pressing while James was closer to Marhez than he was to Mendy. He would only go to Mendy when the ball was passed to him. But by that point it was already too late. We also have a bad habbit of ball chasing. One of our players will press a guy and when he passes it, he will then chase the player who he passed it to who then just gives an easy pass back to whom he received it from. It's like watching little kids play as they chase the ball rather than just pick up their man. This shouldn't be a hard task. There are 11 players on the field. If you are going to press then pick up your man and stay with him...

 

[Dec9003]

Especially after Sheffield United away, you have to be one thick shit to try it again after that horror show.

Exactly, did they not both play (and struggle) against Villa too? There's really no excuse for that lineup tonight.

 

[I_live_cement]

Being successful in football is all about recruitment, as Pep has said many times.

Ours has been shit for a number of years, except last summer under Ole.

Some of our performances have been very promising and that is something to build on, but to expect it every week from this group of players is insane. Let's see where we our after next summer. If things don't improve next season then Ole should go, but to expect miracles from him now is unfair.

 

[Lebowski]

Such is the gulf in class that any tactical setup would have required a huge slice of fortune to get a positive result tonight.

You could give prime Ferguson that imbalanced, inexperienced, injury hit, mentally weak squad and I wouldn't be surprised if he got a hiding.

We're facing our cross town neighbors and they are light years ahead of us as a football club. The question isn't how could we have fluked a spawny win tonight, it's how have they been able to develop a gap so large when we were once the pre-eminent force in European football? The answer is not hard to find.

 

[passing-wind]

Philosophy is what gives the foundation to build a team. If Fred was playing for City he would look a different player for example because he would play under a manager who would enhance his playing capabilities. There's not one player that Solskjaer has developed since he came to this club. We are playing freestyle football with no hope of an identity, the players are failing to establish themselves as a cohesive team because they have a rancid coach directing their success.

I know the players aren't the best but Solskjaer by his own admission is massively underperforming. We haven't improved as a team since he was appointed. Good players don't make a good team, this seems to be the underlying tone to back giving Ole time that's why your Sancho's, Grealish, Maddison's, Koulibaly will make absolutely no difference to our ability to be consistent as a team.

 

[Snow]

With our squad we should be allowing the opponent to have the ball, sit deeper and counter attack. Our attackers are all quick but none of them are creative or very clever in possession. We also take too long to think in possession if the opposition has managed to get their team behind the ball.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There is no tactic could work with Pereira as our CM/DM in pair of two as there is no tactic will ever work with one man midfield. We saw what happened to Sheffield & Aston Villa game, easy to predict what’s the outcome in City game.

And not only that, our pair of CB today was Lindelof & Jones. Not difficulty to predict the outcome of the game. Furthermore, to top the cake with cheery, we got Lingard as our no 10.

Name me the tactics that could work with those players lads! Hit me with your idea if YOU CAN.

 

[WolfInSharp'sClothing]

Build the tactics around your best player, that’s Pogba.

Playing him in a 2 or as a 10 doesn’t get the best out of him, but in a De Bruyne style role, I think he’d be exceptional.

So by copying Man City’s 4-3-3 tactics with a holding midfielder and two more attacking midfield players finding pockets of space either side, it could help to get the best out of him and your other midfield players, who would all probably be more comfortable in a 3.

The issue with trying to play this way is your full-backs aren’t attacking enough and you don’t have a strong enough defensive midfielder. By that, I mean a true DM like Fabinho, Rodri, Fernandinho, Kante, etc.

Wan Bissaka’s main strengths are tackling and his athleticism. His crossing ain’t that great. I’d maybe have a look at him in a DM role! He could be great there. Bring in Dalot at right back and persist with Williams at left back.

Then in the De Bruyne/Silva roles, Pogba and one other from Pereira, McTominay, Mata, Fred, Gomes or Lingard.

Could be a disaster, but could also work a treat!

 

[Alemar]

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

At day 1, Manager could start with demoting Lingard and Jones.

 

[sammyhol]

Tactics can only take you so far... we have far too many average players in the squad to tear up too many trees... But with the midfield injuries we have at the min, my focus would be getting all of our players who are most likely to chip in with a goal or assist on from the start.

Start Matic and Fred as a deep double pivot, and play all 4 of our pacey forwards. I don't think any of them are out and out No 10s, but I'd give Greenwood a go there. He likes to drop deep anyway to pick up the ball anyway, finds space well, is comfortable taking the ball on the turn, and as he showed today is the most capable of the lot of playing a decent through ball. Play Rashford left, James right, and Martial on the shoulder of the last man.

With Matic and Fred played deeper, I would also be expecting them to cover the fullback positions on both sides too.... which means that width, overlapping, and crossing comes first, defending comes second from the fullbacks... which means Williams all day over Shaw, and probably Young over AWB for me. Looks a real defender AWB, but his attacking abilities have me wishing we still had Valencia smashing it into the first defenders shins!

 

[Velvet Revolver]

No I’m not wanting this to turn into an ‘Ole In’ vs ‘Ole Out’ debate, but watching the match here my question is, what tactics WOULD work for us?

What tactics would work to make Fred and Andreas Pereira an effective CM partnership?
What could help the likes of James / Rashford / Greenwood with CMs who aren’t creative?
How do you get output from FBs who are rubbish at attacking?

So essentially my question is, what could any manager do with this squad, without MAJOR surgery, to get anything close to a tune out of them?

If we knew this then we would be managing a club. Why are ole , phelan , carrick et all getting paid?

 

[Hoof the ball]

Coaching, coaching, coaching. You can coach an inferior side to perform tactically precise. Conversely, you can have a superior side and perform tactically erratic. The difference between the two is the level of detail and instruction coming from the coaching team regarding every single possible phase of play in the field. Gone are the days of brief instruction from the sidelines, motivational team talk and the vague hope that you "want it more than them". What is being done in training? How do our players understand where they need to be precisely on the field at any point of transition, either defensively or offensively? You look at City tonight and it's predictable, only because it's evident.

Their DM is blocked from receiving the ball, De Bruyne drops into right sided DM and receives it from CB. The same for Bernardo on the other side. That's coaching. Different players rotating into DM to offer an out for CB's to build the play. That doesn't happen by accident, but by instruction and endless repetition in training. Coaching is everything.