What team was better: Manchester United 2008 or Liverpool 2019?

matbezlima

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That is such a broad statement to make. If they played at the level, I do not buy that because as a manager you have to prepare for the opponents strengths.

Leicester didnt, and they let the full backs go forward unchallenged time after time again which made Liverpool's life easy.

Athelti wont do that, they will make sure they defend well.

So what you should be saying is, if Athleti played like Leicester Liverpool would have won
This is already not wanting to recognize the quality of Liverpool. Liverpool technically can play far better than what they did against Atletico. Besides, I bet that football games in which both teams didn't make any kind of mistakes would always end 0-0. Your argument can be used to dismissing all the great performances in football history, only blaming the adversary's faults. I'm now remembering a heated discussion that I had in other forum with a Real Madrid fan who would just never recognize the quality and technical level that Guardiola's Barcelona had (I'm not saying that this Liverpool is even remotely close to that Barcelona), he would always blame their great performances, like the 5-0 against Real, on just the adversaries being incompetent or bad, he would even say that he considers Guardiola's Bayern and, Allegri's Juventus, Klopp's Liverpool and pretty much all other top teams of the decade better than Guardiola's Barcelona, no matter how much and anyone else talked in the forum about how exaggerated he was being, it seemed like he had a blind spot towards Barcelona's amazing technical level even if you showed videos, he would always blame the opponents. Everyone gave up arguing against him and saw him as a troll at this point. This totally didn't happen in redcafe, I didn't find a troll of this level yet here.
 

Schweigaard

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08 has bigger individual names, but I think our 19 team would beat them 5 out of 10 times. Henderson, Gini and Fabinho don't exactly inspire awe, but they win the midfield battles. Comparing individual players is silly - it's a team game. How they play together is what's relevant.
 

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How is this even a debate? One team won a league and European double, and were some dodgy refereeing away from having only West Brom and Cardiff between them and another treble. The other has no challengers for the league, but got turfed out of the CL in the first knockout round, losing both legs, and lost to the first decent team they faced in the FA cup.

Even making a combined 11 you'd have it dominated by United players.

van der Sar over Allison every day.

You can't split up Vidic and Ferdinand, and I'd argue both in 07-08 were at the very least on a par individually with van Dijk.

Evra over Robertson every day.

Toss up between Brown and TAA at right-back. Brown far more solid defensively, and still fairly decent going forward that season.

I really don't see how you take any of Liverpool's central midfielders. Hargreaves was excellent that season, and I'd have both Carrick and Scholes as definite inclusions, so there's your midfield three.

Up top you have to take Rooney and Ronaldo, which maybe leaves space for Mane/Salah, but Tevez was excellent that season too, and United had a really cohesive attacking unit that started in the midfield.

Even on the bench there are great arguments for Giggs, Fletcher, Park and O'Shea over a lot of Liverpool's players.
 

Alex99

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08 has bigger individual names, but I think our 19 team would beat them 5 out of 10 times. Henderson, Gini and Fabinho don't exactly inspire awe, but they win the midfield battles. Comparing individual players is silly - it's a team game. How they play together is what's relevant.
Which is precisely why you'd go United every time.
 

ariveded

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
 

matbezlima

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
Player by player, United was probably superior to this Liverpool, but the level that Klopp makes his team perform, their chemistry as a whole, their coordinated movement, passing and pressing would at least give United 2008 serious problems. And football is a game primarily won by the team as a unit, not as a collection of individuals. Real's Galácticos in the 2000s are proof of this, though United 2008 surely was far more than a collection of great individuals, they were a unit.
 

MysticRed

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First off, this comparison can't really be made until the season is over. Secondly, truly great teams perform at the highest level in more than one competition. As great as Liverpool's EPL season has been, in my opinion they will never be compared to the top teams unless they win more than one piece of silverware.
What no counting the club World Cup trophy or the european super cup? Let alone the PL except for some deus ex machina moment
 

Random Task

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
The one major flaw with this Liverpool system is its susceptibility to counter-attacking football, which Fergie would have looked to exploit at all costs. That United side contained the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, all of whom are known for their ability to pull off devastating counter-attacks.

Not to mention Rio, Vida, Evra, Neville/Brown and VDS were apart of that 2008 side, and between them formed the strongest back lines in Europe at the time.
 

rcoobc

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2008 United was arguably Ferguson’s best United side, winning three league titles in a row.

There’s no comparison to be made.
I mean, the United team(s) from 1992 to 2003 won 9 out of 11 league titles (inc 3 in a row in 1998 to 2001)

The United team(s) from 2006 to 2013 won 5 out of 7 titles (inc 3 in a row in 2006 to 2009)
 

Fortitude

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Tag me properly.:nono:

And what have I done this time?
:D

........................VDS
TAA--Ferdinand--Vidic---Evra
--------------------Carrick
-----------Fletcher----Scholes
Salah----------------------------Ronaldo
-------------------Rooney

Mon Frere!

 

BigDunc9

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
I feel like this is overstated. In 2013 a much older and weaker United team matched Real Madrid over two legs until a a red card changed the tie.
5 years later the majority of that Real Madrid side best this Liverpool team in the Champions League final. The physical and technical advances you describe are hardly anything in the scheme of things.
 

Rooney in Paris

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
You're overstating Liverpool's strengths. They're hardly as good as you're making out.
 

United58

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Anyone picking Liverpool 2019 over United 2008 is bad IMO. But football is a game of opinions. My one great regret of the glorious Ferguson era is not holding on to Ronaldo longer like Arsenal did with Henry :( Definitely would have won more Champions Leagues with him
 

Schweigaard

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The one major flaw with this Liverpool system is its susceptibility to counter-attacking football, which Fergie would have looked to exploit at all costs. That United side contained the likes of Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, all of whom are known for their ability to pull off devastating counter-attacks.

Not to mention Rio, Vida, Evra, Neville/Brown and VDS were apart of that 2008 side, and between them formed the strongest back lines in Europe at the time.
I don't think that's true. We barely ever concede goals to counter attacks. Van Dijk, Gomez and Robertson are all really fast, and our midfielders rarely overextend in attack. TAA is the weak point defensively, as he can have off-days and he's not particularily fast. But I can also see Vidic struggling with the pace of our attackers. I think counter attacks would be Man Utd 08's weakness in this matchup, rather than the opposite.

I think at least we can all agree that this game would be really interesting to watch!
 

Champ

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
The title winning Leicester side had more fitness, aggression and tenacity than this Liverpool side.
The 2008 United side would beat this Liverpool side, the best thing about the 08 side was it's ability to adapt, to move to a defensive block but still have the danger of the counter, or to go hung ho, this Liverpool side just does not have the flexibility to adapt during games.
 

arnie_ni

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A better question would be Jose's (2015 i think?) Team or our 08 team.
 

JPRouve

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A better question would be Jose's (2015 i think?) Team or our 08 team.
2015 Chelsea wasn't particularly good during the second half of the season. And a 10 men PSG dominated them.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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A better question would be Jose's (2015 i think?) Team or our 08 team.
That would be us easily since we won the CL. Mourinhos first Chelsea side was strong though.
It was a pretty even battle with them even after he left.
Although we won the CL and the league so that makes us better in 2008. Even though it was very close.
 

SadlerMUFC

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What no counting the club World Cup trophy or the european super cup? Let alone the PL except for some deus ex machina moment
Nope...It's like counting the community shield. Super Cup is nothing more than a friendly and the CWC is only a big deal to get there, not to win it. The tournament itself is kind of a joke and only a big deal for the other clubs because they get the chance to play against a European giant...
 

criticalanalysis

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
You've got the jist of this as quite simply, Klopp and this Liverpool team are way ahead tactically. In fact, to be precise they are 12 years ahead.

In a vacuum, if you transported the 08 team to today and played them against even a few of the Premier League teams, they would probably 'struggle' because the coaching and tactical shape of teams are much more fluid. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts etc.

However, if you gave Fergie, say a year to adjust and play in the league, that 08 team would destroy this Liverpool team just like they did to Arsenal back in the days. They wouldn't try to play possession, they would just defend solidly, pick the moments to play and break the weak links. Technically and physically the 08 team are in no way inferior.

Just imagine the Liverpool midfield or attack losing the ball in transition and you have Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Evra breaking in waves with Carrick/Scholes feeding the ball. Or imagine VVD (because none of the others are dominant aerially) having to deal with Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo and Brown on set pieces.

This Liverpool team is rated because of their incredible efficiency and productivity based on Klopp's brilliant coaching but on talent they are comfortably behind the 08 team.
 
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matbezlima

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You've got the jist of this as quite simply, Klopp and this Liverpool team are way ahead tactically. In fact, to be precise they are 12 years ahead.

In a vacuum, if you transported the 08 team to today and played them against even a few of the Premier League teams, they would probably 'struggle' because the coaching and tactical shape of teams are much more fluid. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts etc.

However, if you gave Fergie, say a year to adjust and play in the league, that 08 team would destroy this Liverpool team just like they did to Arsenal back in the days. They wouldn't try to play possession, they would just defend solidly, pick the moments to play and break the weak links. Technically and physically the 08 team are in no way inferior.

Just imagine your midfield or attack losing the ball in transition and you have Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez, Evra breaking in waves with Carrick/Scholes feeding the ball. Or imagine VVD (because none of the others are dominant aerially) having to deal with Vidic, Rio, Rooney, Ronaldo and Brown on set pieces.

This Liverpool team is rated because of their incredible efficiency and productivity based on Klopp's brilliant coaching but on talent they are comfortably behind the 08 team.
The United 2008 team would probably need a year of training to get their tactical, intensity and fitness levels up to 2019's standards, they would need to prepare and adjust as you said. Talent-wise, though, they were probably superior to 2019 Liverpool team.
 

Infordin

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I actually think that these two teams are basically a carbon copy of each other.

Both have a very commanding goalkeeper
Manchester United had two world class centerbacks. Liverpool have one world class centerback and one decent one.
Liverpool have two world class fullbacks. Manchester United had a world class left back and a decent right back.
They both have excellent holding midfielders with a great passing range (Fabinho, Carrick)
They both have functional workhorse midfielders (Henderson, Wijnaldum, Milner, Fletcher, Hargreaves, Park)
They both have a fantastic attacking trios

There’s a lot of overlap and similarities. Of course there are some differences too. Liverpool doesn’t really have any equivalent to Scholes (a classy playmaker in the twilight of his career). However, I also think that Wijnaldum is more skilled on the ball than Park/Hargreaves/Fletcher were.
 

adexkola

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The title winning Leicester side had more fitness, aggression and tenacity than this Liverpool side.
The 2008 United side would beat this Liverpool side, the best thing about the 08 side was it's ability to adapt, to move to a defensive block but still have the danger of the counter, or to go hung ho, this Liverpool side just does not have the flexibility to adapt during games.
They... they did?

They... they don't?
 

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Toss up between Brown and TAA at right-back. Brown far more solid defensively, and still fairly decent going forward that season.

.
It’s not really a toss up, easily TAA.
As for the thread, the 2008 side.
 

romufc

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This is already not wanting to recognize the quality of Liverpool. Liverpool technically can play far better than what they did against Atletico. Besides, I bet that football games in which both teams didn't make any kind of mistakes would always end 0-0. Your argument can be used to dismissing all the great performances in football history, only blaming the adversary's faults. I'm now remembering a heated discussion that I had in other forum with a Real Madrid fan who would just never recognize the quality and technical level that Guardiola's Barcelona had (I'm not saying that this Liverpool is even remotely close to that Barcelona), he would always blame their great performances, like the 5-0 against Real, on just the adversaries being incompetent or bad, he would even say that he considers Guardiola's Bayern and, Allegri's Juventus, Klopp's Liverpool and pretty much all other top teams of the decade better than Guardiola's Barcelona, no matter how much and anyone else talked in the forum about how exaggerated he was being, it seemed like he had a blind spot towards Barcelona's amazing technical level even if you showed videos, he would always blame the opponents. Everyone gave up arguing against him and saw him as a troll at this point. This totally didn't happen in redcafe, I didn't find a troll of this level yet here.
I have always said Liverpool have been a great team this season but throwing statements like if they played like Leicester against Athleti they would have won is not wanting to recognise that a team can play a defensive system and defend well.

No, a team that doesnt make mistakes would not always end 0-0 because, the superior team will have that quality to break a team down by brilliant play, Liverpool have shown it numerous times.

Liverpool have been fantaastic and play a brand of football that if you give them a sniff, they will strangle you, that is why if you want to have some success against them, you cannot give them those opportunities.

Re Barca, that Barca team was one of the best ever footballing sides, there are no comparisons. The way they pressed teams, there was no way out for teams and ofcourse when you are that good at winning the ball and have Messi in your team, it is almost impossible to play against.

Manutd found that out in 2 CL finals.
 

Danny Roberts

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First off, this comparison can't really be made until the season is over. Secondly, truly great teams perform at the highest level in more than one competition. As great as Liverpool's EPL season has been, in my opinion they will never be compared to the top teams unless they win more than one piece of silverware.
I think people forget that Liverpool's points tally last season was incredible and that they also won the CL!
 

romufc

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I think people forget that Liverpool's points tally last season was incredible and that they also won the CL!
If only points won you league titles...

I think you forget that Manutd won the league 3 years in a row and got to CL finals as well?
 

El Jefe

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The United 2008 team would probably need a year of training to get their tactical, intensity and fitness levels up to 2019's standards, they would need to prepare and adjust as you said. Talent-wise, though, they were probably superior to 2019 Liverpool team.
We really wouldn't. We had high energy players like Hargreaves, Anderson, Rooney, Tevez, Evra, Fletcher and Park in our team. The only area that could possibly be overrun is the midfield of Scholes and Carrick but this could be limited with the inclusion of Park, Hargreaves or Fletcher in the team. There's also the possibility that Scholes and Carrick could have them chasing shadows as that midfield is far superior to Liverpools.

While I agree that this Liverpool is up there for intensity and fitness levels, I wouldn't say that their level of fitness or intensity has never been seen before. In isolated games, teams have matched it but what makes this Liverpool team great is they can do it for a whole season.
 

iHicksy

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
My god. The Newbie title is well suited isn't it? Technically and physically. Just Wow. Ronaldo, Scholes, Carrick, Giggs, Rooney, Tevez, Rio etc are so far technically superior to anything Liverpool have to offer it's not even funny. Physically United would absolutely destroy them. Your midfield is so technically poor you have Jordon Henderson as a starter. The team we have NOW beats and nullifies this Liverpool team and it's not even a quarter of the 08 team. Jesus wept.
 

RooneyLegend

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Will be watching our 07/08 team for the rest of the day. Hope it's as good as I used to think it was.
 

romufc

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Its not a player vs player. Or trophies vs trophies. Its not about names or reputation battles

The system of this LFC side would have caused big trouble to 2008 Utd side. The speed, fitness, and aggression of this LFC side is unprecedented in EPL history.

Also, the era of 2008 was different, most teams didnt even try to attack Utd, that was the aura of Fergie’s side. But technically, physically, these players are no match for 2019 LFC side.
Unprecedented? City last 3 seasons have been the same.

In respects to teams not wanting to attack the 08 side is they knew how dangerous the team is in attack, which was shown at the game at the Emirates in the CL.

There will be faults in every side, but this years Liverpool team is not as good as last seasons. They do rely on forcing mistakes with long balls. Whereas last season Liverpool played high press aggressive football.
 

WeePat

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Considering United 08 is arguably the best side in PL history for me, this is an easy choice.