What to expect from a new centre back pair?

Bastian

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Varane is a great player, even one of the best in the world, who most likely would improve us. If we can get him for a good price we must go for it. However we shouldn’t be naive and think he would improve us in every aspect.. One benefit is he’s faster, but I don’t think that automatically will compensate for Maguire and allow us to play a high line. The complimentary CB of Maguire will always need to fall back at times, not alway push and maintain the line. Also, I am not sure a high line is working well with our midfield. They lose possession often and are not so creative. The Villareal game is a good example. I also wouldn’t say Varane offers more in the attack. He’s scored roughly 3 goals per 100 games in his career and doesn’t have the same good passing foot as Lindelof who also offers assists.
His goal scoring record is on par with Lindelof, so I concede that point. He's just an actual centre back, and as such, good in the air. I think having two centre backs good in the air will improve our attacking set pieces. In terms of the high line, I have seen Lindelof too often get done, either from cowering during a header that sets up a through run, or just simply see someone outpace him when Maguire is higher up the pitch. We are often playing a high line, despite not having the pace to recover. So of course having Varane would improve that quite a bit.

I agree that it's only a part of the problem though, and one position doesn't fix the imbalance we have in at least 4 positions. The midfield needs proper sorting out, even if Fred and McTominay are good squad players, neither should really be in our first XI, and Pogba is not made for a midfield two, unfortunately. We'll see if either Mejbri or Garner make a breakthrough next season, but we need at the very least one competent midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and positionally sound - someone who can pick up the ball and progress our play. Neither Fred or McTominay can really do that (City away notwithstanding - which was a bit Phil Neville against Arsenal, a one-off).
 

golden_blunder

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Here the stats from EPL website:
https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/12/Manchester-United/stats?se=363


Goals conceded: 44
Goals conceded per match: 1.16
Errors leading to goals: 6
Goals from set pieces (OP stat only for Mag-Lindelof): 7

I expect a return of minus 10 from a new CB.
GA from setpieces: down to 2-3 (4-5 goals improvement)
Errors leading to goal down to 2 (4 goals improvement)
GA from open play: minus 2-3 goals: improvement in overall defensive stability.

As per EPL, we conceded only one goal from a counter. This stat challenges a popular opinion at the Cafe that Maguire’s speed is a big issue. No, it’s not. Lindelof weaknesses is a much bigger issue.

I would consider Botman from Lille as a partner for Maguire instead of older, more injury prone and expensive (wages) Varane.

10 GA improvement will be worth at least 10 pts improvement in league table.

Buying a new CB is a safe investment with high return. 10 pts for £50 million investment. Don’t get me wrong, buying a RW or DM is very important, but a new CB is a must this season.
I’m not familiar with you but good post
 

Mcking

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I seem to be one of few who am happy with our CB pair, and there are many who want to upgrade them by replacing Lindelof. Some even want him to leave the club. Fans’ favourites to replace seem to be Koundé, Varane, Botman or Torres.
There are many things to discuss, but if we just look at the goals conceded, what do you guys expect to improve? Set pieces, open play?

Here are the goals conceded from the 26 PL matches Lindelof- Maguire started as CB pair this season:

Total goals240.92/game
Open play120.46/game
Setpieces70.27/game
Penalty30.12/game
Own goal10.04/game
Counter10.04/game

The bulk of goals are open play and setpieces.

They have conceded 12 goals or 0.46 goals/game in open play. How much would that improve with a new CB?

They have conceded 0.27 goals/game from setpieces. How much do you expect that improve if we replace Lindelof?

(I hope my stats are correct...)
Attack crosses and clear the ball at set-pieces. Maguire is okay, but all our other defenders offer next to no presence at set-pieces.
 

andersj

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There are many things to discuss, but if we just look at the goals conceded, what do you guys expect to improve? Set pieces, open play?
Both.

Lindelof is not as bad as a few people make out, but I dont think he is a great fit for Maguire either. And I think Maguire is significantly better than Lindelof.

0,92 per game is not good enough. We should be aiming for 0,65 and a better CB would help.

Furthermore, having a better backup (as Lindelof would become) would also help. I also think it would be nice to be able to play with three at the back in some games (we also need an attacking fullback for that).

Quite a few people felt Smalling was good enough. Some even argued Maguire would not be an improvement on him. This feels like a similar case. I think the doubters will see the difference if we sign Kounde or even Torres.
 

jackal&hyde

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Lindelof is underrated imo but he does get bullied by strong attackers and he is not confident in air duels and that makes teams use a lot of crossing against us. The low nr of goals conceded in counter attacks shows he is actually a good defender in closing channels and we are not so passive as people think. It's also important to note we play a mostly defensive double pivot.

A 4 3 3 with a single pivot would show up our defensive troubles even more. Varane has everything Lindelof has plus pace and physical presence. It's a no brainer to improve here if we can.

Special mention here to AWB s poor positioning at times that seem to get overlooked a lot while there is an over focus on Lindelof. A more experience CB might just be the on the field coaching Arron would need.

The biggest problem by far I have with Lindelof, Bailly and Fred is that all 3 just seem like nervous wrecks all the time and a mistake seems to be float in the air. They all lack composure and the effect this can have on the team can not be understated.
 

A-man

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Here the stats from EPL website:
https://www.premierleague.com/clubs/12/Manchester-United/stats?se=363


Goals conceded: 44
Goals conceded per match: 1.16
Errors leading to goals: 6
Goals from set pieces (OP stat only for Mag-Lindelof): 7

I expect a return of minus 10 from a new CB.
GA from setpieces: down to 2-3 (4-5 goals improvement)
Errors leading to goal down to 2 (4 goals improvement)
GA from open play: minus 2-3 goals: improvement in overall defensive stability.

As per EPL, we conceded only one goal from a counter. This stat challenges a popular opinion at the Cafe that Maguire’s speed is a big issue. No, it’s not. Lindelof weaknesses is a much bigger issue.

I would consider Botman from Lille as a partner for Maguire instead of older, more injury prone and expensive (wages) Varane.

10 GA improvement will be worth at least 10 pts improvement in league table.

Buying a new CB is a safe investment with high return. 10 pts for £50 million investment. Don’t get me wrong, buying a RW or DM is very important, but a new CB is a must this season.
We conceded 20 goals in 12 matches when Maguire -Lindelof werent playing, so just by covering those matches better should be 10 goals alone.

When it comes to mistakes, I don’t see how we would make 4 less errors leading to goal with a new CB. According to the stats you showed Lindelof had 1 error leading to goal this season, and in total 2 during his 4 seasons at United. The errors leading to goal this season

Bailly 1
Harry 1
Lindelof 1
Henderson 2
DDG 1

On top of that we have some conceded goals after midfielders lost possession in dangerous areas (Pogba, Fred).

We tend to think our defenders make more errors than others, but it is not true. A little anecdote is that Varane has the highest amount of errors leading to goal in CL since 2020.
 

Matthew84!

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I'd settle for a defender that is taller than Lindelof, perhaps slightly quicker as he is very slow, much stronger. If anyone has that it will improve our defence easily.
Lindelof has been at fault for many goals this season, especially towards the back end of the season.
I expect us to defend set pieces better and have a higher line with a new CB.
 

ThinkTank@Cafe

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We conceded 20 goals in 12 matches when Maguire -Lindelof werent playing, so just by covering those matches better should be 10 goals alone.

When it comes to mistakes, I don’t see how we would make 4 less errors leading to goal with a new CB. According to the stats you showed Lindelof had 1 error leading to goal this season, and in total 2 during his 4 seasons at United. The errors leading to goal this season

Bailly 1
Harry 1
Lindelof 1
Henderson 2
DDG 1

On top of that we have some conceded goals after midfielders lost possession in dangerous areas (Pogba, Fred).

We tend to think our defenders make more errors than others, but it is not true. A little anecdote is that Varane has the highest amount of errors leading to goal in CL since 2020.

Agree on Varane, quite an eccentric player who doesn’t provide additional resilience to defence.

I might be wrong on errors leading to goal stat improvement. However, a strong and aerially dominant CB would make up for Lindelof inability to challenge in one vs one situations.

My point is 10 GA improvement is easily achievable with a good transfer.
 

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- High line
- Recovery pace
- Twice the competency in aerial duels
- Better organisation for set pieces
- Someone to sort out AWBs terrible positioning and remote-control him a bit
- More goals scored from set pieces
- Resulting in a collective overall improvement with more balance to the team
DIdn't stop him to be the best defensive fullback in the league did it? His positioning may be a bit off sometimes and could close down players faster before crossing but he's got great recovery space to make up for it and it's rather a matter of instructions.

We absolutely need all of the rest you mentioned. Can't be more happy when we finally sell Lindelof not so make him same school boy mistakes after mistakes. We could get easily 10 more points in the league by replacing him with someone at least half competent like Maguire. And not talking about cup competitions where he cost us year after year too. In the recent final, that worst display by a defender ever against Sevilla where he cost us all three goals too. just few things to remember from recent games.

The player should be doing basics like winning tackles, headers, being strong enough, not built like a pussy. Also tough mentally to be able to drive forward with the ball without fear and help us build better from the back with a decent pass. Along with great recovery speed and way more agressive player then we have now, so we could move on to more high line play. Not easy to find such player but new CB is a must and I'd rather have two, could be someone more experienced and someone just breaking through, since Mengi seemed absolutely frightened on his loan and unfortunately got injured..

We need rather two CBs and a CDM. Then it would be a good summer even without attacker. But of course if we sell Lingard, and could get something for Martial and in the end even Pogba we could get some funds but Kane, Haaland, Grealish, Sancho will cost a bomb and I can see palyers like Greenwood and perhaps Amad stepping up..
 

criticalanalysis

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I never said anything about a vacuum. But we concede few goals with our first CB pair, especially in open play. Obviously there are other tasks than defending for a CB, but still it is important. This is also a common reason why people want an upgrade; because they believe our defence is poor. It’s when we concede goals people want to upgrade.

The whole he “has to be protected by the system” is obviously not true. We play the same way with other CBs. We don’t really have many options. Just because McFred are poor with the ball doesn’t mean they some kind of superstars defensively. Many big teams have even better defensive power in midfield. It is strange when people say we need to protect Lindelof, when in reality the only thing discussed is how we can protect Maguire with a fast CB.
If you don't believe you are posting in a vacuum, will you acknowledge that our goals conceded stat is not just down to our centre backs? You can't use that stat as if it's a bullet proof argument that Lindelof has done his job above and beyond. The common reason why people want an upgrade is not because our defensive record is neccessarily poor but they believe we can improve on one player, which can bring other tangible and intangible qualities.

We've scored plenty of goals this season. Will you suggest 'our attackers have xyz stat, therefore we don't need Sancho/chance creators'?

Being better defensively doesn't just singularly mean conceding less goals, there's much more nuance to that, like less defensive transitions, less chances conceded, more territorial i.e proactive positioning, less defensive minded players on the pitch, more proactive passing etc. All of those things can in turn help our game in other ways.

If McFred aren't there for their defensive work, why do you think they've played so many games? You can't deny their work for the team and then turn around and blame them for being poor, whilst ignoring that their jobs don't benefit the likes of Lindelof.

Like I said before, you're choosing a narrative and selective use of stats to essentially to 'prove' it's some awkward/super tricky task to replace Lindelof. It's frankly not at all. Once this summer is over, we can maybe revisit this absurd notion of Lindelof being pivotal to our team once and for all.
 

drunkmonkmeth

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Our set piece woes aren't down to the players but the coaches and ole imo. We defend them way to poorly without any improvement for it not to be a coaching issue.. that said a more vocal commanding physical and athletic cb to pair up with mcguire would be great.. i like lindelof but he isnt an ideal pairing for mcguire
 

sullydnl

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Set-pieces are down to coaching more than players.

But in terms of how replacing Lindelof would help us, it depends on who we replace him with. Some CBs are bigger than him, some more aggressive, some faster, some better in the air, some better on the ball, some combinations of a few of those factors. Depending on which we sign, we'd see different improvements in different aspects of the game.

And it would mean our depth at CB is better as someone who is currently strong enough to be a starter is now a squad option. Comparing our CBs to City's this season, both sides had linchpins CBs with Dias and Maguire playing approx. 90% of the PL games. But there's a clear difference in the 2nd CBs, with Stones playing in approx. 55% of PL games for City while Lindelof played in about 75% for us. The key difference being that they had former first-choice CB Laporte as an option whereas our next best bet was Eric Bailly, so they were much less dependent on a single partner for their main CB.

Over a long season in multiple competitions that extra depth will save you in a lot of matches, even leaving aside how much better the first team might be.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I expect Lindelof & Bailly to step down and not be part of the new pair. Simple.

Lindelof shows so many habit of being ball watching too many times. This ball watching habit happens in moments when he tends to not block/cut the cross despite of putting pressure on his player and often chose not to commit to block or clear the ball but let the ball goes past him easily. He’s easily outmuscled and sums up why his ground duel success is only 45%.

Good examples are the first and third goal vs Palace in our first game. Townsend scored a goal from Lindelof not cutting the cross despite of putting the pressure on his player. Zaha easily outmuscled him for the 3rd goal aka losing the ground duel easily and let him shoot. Another similar example as the the Palace first goal came from the Liverpool third goal recently, Lindelof chose not to cut/block the cross/shot from Trent.

The shocking Everton 3-3 and once again Lindelof shows habit not to go attacking the ball aka ball watching and let the ball went past him result in DCL’s goal. The Villareal game was pretty much identical. The West Brom game was also similar case that he didn’t go the aggressive approach to attack the ball first and but chose to play strength to strength and lost it.

And don’t get me started with Bailly. He lacks of concentration, poor man marking, clumsy. His heading ability is as bad as Lindelof.

And How many times have we been lucky enough not being punished on other games? Can we afford to rely on our luck again? I don’t think so.

Ball playing centre back who is strong enough with his ground duel, high concentration, brave, and not ball watching or let the ball goes past easily is what I expect.
 

Brexit_Brigade

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If you don't believe you are posting in a vacuum, will you acknowledge that our goals conceded stat is not just down to our centre backs? You can't use that stat as if it's a bullet proof argument that Lindelof has done his job above and beyond. The common reason why people want an upgrade is not because our defensive record is neccessarily poor but they believe we can improve on one player, which can bring other tangible and intangible qualities.

We've scored plenty of goals this season. Will you suggest 'our attackers have xyz stat, therefore we don't need Sancho/chance creators'?

Being better defensively doesn't just singularly mean conceding less goals, there's much more nuance to that, like less defensive transitions, less chances conceded, more territorial i.e proactive positioning, less defensive minded players on the pitch, more proactive passing etc. All of those things can in turn help our game in other ways.

If McFred aren't there for their defensive work, why do you think they've played so many games? You can't deny their work for the team and then turn around and blame them for being poor, whilst ignoring that their jobs don't benefit the likes of Lindelof.

Like I said before, you're choosing a narrative and selective use of stats to essentially to 'prove' it's some awkward/super tricky task to replace Lindelof. It's frankly not at all. Once this summer is over, we can maybe revisit this absurd notion of Lindelof being pivotal to our team once and for all.
Good post.

Lindelof is third on the priority list of upgrades for me. Fine with sticking with him as first choice for another season, if it means the right wing and midfield are reinforced.
 

mitchmouse

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The Sun (hopefully thereafter this is utter bollox):

"Manchester United are thinking of playing Aaron Wan-Bissaka at centre-half in a defensive reshuffle"

I guess they come to this conclusion to back up the Kieran Trippier story but this would be a disaster, given his awful positional sense
 

krentz

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If they can head the ball and dont get outmuscled easily then I'd be very happy. People talk about set piece coaching, while the coaching might be an issue but nothing the coaches can do if our CBs (except Maguire) are so allergic to jump.
 

wolvored

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Lindelof is too easily knocked off the ball. He has no aggression and this is needed in a good CB. Also his heading is poor for a CB as well. We could easily upgrade him. We dont need a CB who can play Hollywood balls. Just win the ball and pass it 10-20 yards to a team mate.
 

arthurka

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Could we just sell Bailly and get Lindelöf moved to the bench. Pretty much hate everything about Harry - Lindelöf partnership
 

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While I think we could survive next season just fine with Lindelöf-Maguire as our pairing (provided proper investment in our midfield), the lack of quality and availability among our back-ups means we should definitely look into buying a CB this summer. And if we're going to be buying one, we should aim for quality. If that means Lindelöf becomes back-up, good. Not because I have anything against Lindelöf, but because it would mean we'd be stronger at the back and that we'll have a solid and actually available back-up CB.
 

Foxbatt

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Surely if Lindelof is so bad we should be able to find one better than him easily and not so expensive.
 

MrSingh2002

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If Lindelof and Maguire aren't going to win you a league or champions league then why are they starting?

This club needs to bring in players that are the best in the league. Including centrebacks not named Lindelof.
 

bosskeano

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If Lindelof and Maguire aren't going to win you a league or champions league then why are they starting?

This club needs to bring in players that are the best in the league. Including centrebacks not named Lindelof.
Hard to argue as lindelof hasn't been convincing enough as a partner next to maguire to see us winning the league or champions league. however, you're not going to win any league with the lack of goal scorers we have on our roster. we had 11 results in the league this season where we scored either just one goal or it was a nil nil draw.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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If Lindelof and Maguire aren't going to win you a league or champions league then why are they starting?

This club needs to bring in players that are the best in the league. Including centrebacks not named Lindelof.
We can win the league with them if we improve our attack. Chelsea won CL with not that impressive set of defenders.

Coaching and more quality up front is our biggest problems. Although people seem to think that just paying 80 million for another Maguire would solve all our issues.
 

DFreshKing

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You can just leave the thread, simple as that. You don’t need to take every opportunity you can to shit on Lindelof. That’s is your own choice.
You think using the resultat from the whole season for evaluation is BS, but think one goal in one match tells more?

This thread was about: how much do you expect the defensive output to improve with a new CB.
It was a mistake in final that anyone who had watched Lindeloff play all season knew was likely. That's the frustration and it should be obvious. I bet plenty said it was a worry pre match. The opposition certainly knew it. How can you want that to continue where he will always be targeted for such a glaring weakness in his game. Our weakest starters are Lindeloff and McFred. Thats why we should buy a CB and a Cdm.
 

Sandikan

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What do we want in a centre back?

Aerial ability, in both areas
Pace
Playing it ability

Simple. Right?
 

A-man

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It was a mistake in final that anyone who had watched Lindeloff play all season knew was likely. That's the frustration and it should be obvious. I bet plenty said it was a worry pre match. The opposition certainly knew it. How can you want that to continue where he will always be targeted for such a glaring weakness in his game. Our weakest starters are Lindeloff and McFred. Thats why we should buy a CB and a Cdm.
I watch a lot of football and I know every CB in the world makes mistakes, errors and poor efforts. Costly ones. Mixed with good stuff. Why would anyone want Varane after he cost his team Champions league last season? Two costly super mistakes in the same game. Because he is a great player, but he makes mistakes. Lindelof was one of our absolutely best players in EL, I don’t think anyone can deny that. I would say we mainly lost the final because of our weak attack, not defence. We conceded one goal over 120 minutes, from almost the only chance they created against our defence. We need an attack who can score more than one goal in 120 minutes vs Villareal if we’re going to win titles.
 

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- High line
- Recovery pace
- Twice the competency in aerial duels
- Better organisation for set pieces
- Someone to sort out AWBs terrible positioning and remote-control him a bit
- More goals scored from set pieces
- Resulting in a collective overall improvement with more balance to the team
Then only Shaw should stay ;) .
 

A-man

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His goal scoring record is on par with Lindelof, so I concede that point. He's just an actual centre back, and as such, good in the air. I think having two centre backs good in the air will improve our attacking set pieces. In terms of the high line, I have seen Lindelof too often get done, either from cowering during a header that sets up a through run, or just simply see someone outpace him when Maguire is higher up the pitch. We are often playing a high line, despite not having the pace to recover. So of course having Varane would improve that quite a bit.

I agree that it's only a part of the problem though, and one position doesn't fix the imbalance we have in at least 4 positions. The midfield needs proper sorting out, even if Fred and McTominay are good squad players, neither should really be in our first XI, and Pogba is not made for a midfield two, unfortunately. We'll see if either Mejbri or Garner make a breakthrough next season, but we need at the very least one competent midfielder who is comfortable on the ball and positionally sound - someone who can pick up the ball and progress our play. Neither Fred or McTominay can really do that (City away notwithstanding - which was a bit Phil Neville against Arsenal, a one-off).
That’s a good point. Even if Varane is not a goalscorer, someone adding some aerial power at offensive corners will take some attention off Maguire.
Yes we often play a high line. But imo we have been able to defend the line and not conceded many goals. The difference is that we might be able to push higher when we lose possession.

I personally don’t believe it’s so easy that if we add a good fast CB we suddenly can play more effective high line. That CB would still need to defend all the space from behind AWB to Maguire.That’s 3/4 of the width. Maguire will always push, that’s his strength. The other CB will need to be more covering than pushing. I also don’t think our players in midfield are suited for a high line



Agree on Varane, quite an eccentric player who doesn’t provide additional resilience to defence.

I might be wrong on errors leading to goal stat improvement. However, a strong and aerially dominant CB would make up for Lindelof inability to challenge in one vs one situations.

My point is 10 GA improvement is easily achievable with a good transfer.
Yes even a good third CB would improve us 10 goals.
We’ve been lucky Maguire hasn’t been injured until now. But this also shows how important it is to rotate more, to be ready for situations like this.
Set-pieces are down to coaching more than players.

But in terms of how replacing Lindelof would help us, it depends on who we replace him with. Some CBs are bigger than him, some more aggressive, some faster, some better in the air, some better on the ball, some combinations of a few of those factors. Depending on which we sign, we'd see different improvements in different aspects of the game.

And it would mean our depth at CB is better as someone who is currently strong enough to be a starter is now a squad option. Comparing our CBs to City's this season, both sides had linchpins CBs with Dias and Maguire playing approx. 90% of the PL games. But there's a clear difference in the 2nd CBs, with Stones playing in approx. 55% of PL games for City while Lindelof played in about 75% for us. The key difference being that they had former first-choice CB Laporte as an option whereas our next best bet was Eric Bailly, so they were much less dependent on a single partner for their main CB.

Over a long season in multiple competitions that extra depth will save you in a lot of matches, even leaving aside how much better the first team might be.
This is absolutely my conclusion as well. As I wrote,
Lindelof - Maguire: 24 goals conceded in 26 matches. 2 lost matches.
Other CB constellations: 20 goals conceded in 12 matches. 4 lost matches.

City have Laporte and Ake as backups and for rotation. That’s a pair costing 100 mill for backup.
 

redrobed

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No arguments on that front, I just think we're not as good in attack as we thought, maybe mid-season, we were.



With Varane you can play a higher line, he has the recovery pace, he's a lot better in the air than Lindelof (and Bailly for that matter), I think he'd definitely improve the overall balance of the team. I think Shaw has benefitted from having Maguire next to him, stability and someone who talks. I don't know whether Varane would have a positive effect on AWB, but it would be a very nice bonus. I also think he presents more danger in attack than Lindelof. Basically, I think he's an improvement on Lindelof in every aspect and he allows us more tactical flexibility.
As a fan of Madrid as well as Utd I have to disagree. Varane has lost a yard or two recently and what happens to us at Utd when he inevitably gets injured? We have to change our system. We can get away with it at Madrid as we have other defenders with similar attributes to step in.
 

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I watch a lot of football and I know every CB in the world makes mistakes, errors and poor efforts. Costly ones. Mixed with good stuff. Why would anyone want Varane after he cost his team Champions league last season? Two costly super mistakes in the same game. Because he is a great player, but he makes mistakes. Lindelof was one of our absolutely best players in EL, I don’t think anyone can deny that. I would say we mainly lost the final because of our weak attack, not defence. We conceded one goal over 120 minutes, from almost the only chance they created against our defence. We need an attack who can score more than one goal in 120 minutes vs Villareal if we’re going to win titles.
You're his Mum aren't you?

Best players in the EL?

There are no words.
 

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We don’t concede a lot of goals from open play because our line is so deep. This causes a problem with us attacking more than anything. The higher the line can be the more pressure we can put on the opposition when we are attacking. That’s why our general play looks so disjointed.

Maguire and Lindelof both lack pace. Lindelof is very weak in heading situation. We just need a Bailly type defender who can stay fit.

The defensive record from set pieces is on management because the whole team will be in the box and clearly aren’t being set up correctly to defend them. And the fact it’s continued all the season and part of the reason we lost the cup final is awful.
 

A-man

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You're his Mum aren't you?

Best players in the EL?

There are no words.
I’m just a little closer to realty than you. He’s been good this season, lost form the last 3-4 games but overall good.
Can’t believe you think scoring 1 goal in 120 minutes against Villareal isn’t a problem.
 

golden_blunder

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I watch a lot of football and I know every CB in the world makes mistakes, errors and poor efforts. Costly ones. Mixed with good stuff. Why would anyone want Varane after he cost his team Champions league last season? Two costly super mistakes in the same game. Because he is a great player, but he makes mistakes. Lindelof was one of our absolutely best players in EL, I don’t think anyone can deny that. I would say we mainly lost the final because of our weak attack, not defence. We conceded one goal over 120 minutes, from almost the only chance they created against our defence. We need an attack who can score more than one goal in 120 minutes vs Villareal if we’re going to win titles.
You’re having a laugh or in complete denial
 

A-man

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You’re having a laugh or in complete denial
What did I write that you don’t agree with?
1. Lindelof has been good in EL?
2. Also Varane makes mistakes?
3. Only scoring 1 goal in 120 minutes vs Villareal is not good enough if we want to win trophies?
 

DFreshKing

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I’m just a little closer to realty than you. He’s been good this season, lost form the last 3-4 games but overall good.
Can’t believe you think scoring 1 goal in 120 minutes against Villareal isn’t a problem.
You are amusing i'll give you that. This thread is discussing what a new CB pairing would offer - not sure why you keep bleating about our attackers in it. Lindeloff is not good enough - it has been proven and thankfully the club appear to fixing it buying his replacement. How are you going cope when the EL's best CB is on the bench? It's actually quite cute to see your passion for such an average player.
 
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golden_blunder

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What did I write that you don’t agree with?
1. Lindelof has been good in EL?
2. Also Varane makes mistakes?
3. Only scoring 1 goal in 120 minutes vs Villareal is not good enough if we want to win trophies?
1 and 3.

1. he was “one of our better players”.
3. I like the way you try to turn the conversation around to how many goals we score rather than addressing the elephant in the room first
 

A-man

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You are amusing i'll give you that. This thread is discussing what a new CB pairing would offer - not sure why you keep bleating about our attackers in it. Lindeloff is not good enough - it has been proven and thankfully the club appear to fixing it buying his replacement. How are you going cope when the EL's best CB is on the bench? It's actually quite cute to see you passion for such an average player.
Again no real arguments, just emotional ones.
Never said he was the best CB in the EL, but he was one of our better players.

1 and 3.

1. he was “one of our better players”.
3. I like the way you try to turn the conversation around to how many goals we score rather than addressing the elephant in the room first
Yes he was one of our better players.
We lost the game because we were poor offensively, that's my opinion.
Don't see how any of those statements can be controversial that you believe I'm in total denial. You're just trolling again.
 

VeevaVee

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Just looking at stats in isolation doesn’t work.
The whole team contributes to a clean sheet, and if we don’t play very well when attacking, there’s a good chance we can get one just from keeping possession in their half and not doing much with it.

Our defensive inadequacies often become apparent when attacked. Getting pulled apart, losing their man, out of position, weak, poor on set pieces. The list goes on. I’d like to see someone who can improve on all those things and contribute to the defence as a whole.