What to take away from todays win?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Di Maria's angel, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Aug 13, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    Ignoring the hypothetical scenarios (like what if Chelsea scored first),

    Positives
    1. Counter attacks - It's lightening quick. From one box to other in around 10 seconds for 2-3 goals. With the pace we have upfront, we should score many goals like this.
    2. Pressing - Didn't start well but after first goal, pressing was good.
    3. Defense - They hit the woodwork twice but felt defense was good and composed. Maguire brings so much to the team with his presence.

    Negatives
    1. Possession - Possession for the sake of it is not good but we struggled to string passes together. Maybe it's the tactic and byproduct when we try to play at 100 mph and play as direct as possible. In any case, we should control the game better, we improved as the game progressed but should be going lot better.
    2. Midfield - I think this is again related to possession point. I though midfielders were not in the game for most part.
    3. Build up play - Again all 3 points are interdependent. We lacked midfield to control the possession, so build up play wasn't there. We won't play against high line defense every week. Hopefully we will be lot better when playing against packed defense.

    Overall happy with 4-0, don't think we smashed a top 6 team with such a scoreline, maybe the last time we did was 8-2 vs Arsenal. Like Ole said, this is just a work in progress and there is lot of improvement needed. But it's clear the way he wants his team to play.
  2. Aug 13, 2019

    cyril C Full Member

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    Well, Chelsea missed Hazard and really need Pulisic to step in the role, which may or may not happen. Chelsea as with last season, still missed DC, which they can't do anything until next summer. So there is very little Chelsea that can do to improve on what they have right now, until next summer.

    As for us, no-one seem to have mentioned this - this is about the 1st time over the last few seasons, that we finally got it right on recruitment. Forget about price tag, age, we need to recruit players who can start right away, not players for the bench...
  3. Aug 13, 2019

    Subho611 Full Member

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    Key takeaways:
    - We have been working on being a counter-attacking team, the runs for the players are certainly drilled and not instinctive
    - We will do well against top teams who attack us, because we will always be a threat on the counter
    - Not convinced with dominating games that need to be dominated. Martial has to add more to his game to score against deep defenses
    - Midfield is woefully understaffed; not sure how we will go through an entire season with a midfield of Pogba, Matic, McT, and Fred
    - Strikers are also slightly understaffed. An injury to Martial or Rashford and we are fecked
  4. Aug 13, 2019

    pocco loco

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    It really was a strange game. Fantastic result and some good goals. However, i don't think I'd be wrong in thinking that most of us would have been a lot happier if we saw us play the football that Chelsea did in the first half (without the result going against us instead). It's been frustrating the last few years how most big teams dominate possession and play with well thought out patterns of play that exploit tactical weaknesses. We just want to see that side to our play.

    I think there was an improvement after our first goal, so it could just be a young team with new players needing to settle down a bit. We'll probably have to show more ideas against wolves as they will concede possession to play on the counter. Can't wait to see how we get on.
  5. Aug 13, 2019

    red woppit Full Member

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    'Fortune favours the brave', and I think Ole was very brave in selecting that team to play one of your big rivals. As someone has said, it would have been easy to pick Matic and Mata, and be safe, possibly have a lot more of the ball, but our play would have been a lot slower and more predictable. The back four were immense, but still have room for improvement, both individually, and collectively. The strikers (Rashford and Martial) will get a much better understanding of each others play and positioning, and will form a good partnership in time. The midfield looked a bit of a mess, especially first half. This is where we need to improve, as everyone knows. Overall I couldn't be happier, after not playing particularly well, we beat a rival 4-0.
  6. Aug 13, 2019

    Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber Thus says Kemo

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    That midfield control will come from better understanding the tactical pressing. The collective will work better.


    I was amazed how our defence was retaining possession better than our midfield. For the first time since LVGs days we had a possession defence
  7. Aug 13, 2019

    Valuedrug New Member

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    I think we would be justified in feeling positive about a few but important things. The signings all look like they're settling in fairly well, particularly in the back four. Perhaps it's jumping the gun a bit, social media based bias or whatever, but I did get the feeling, that Maguire will be a big positive for this team. I rate Lindelof to some extent, but I don't agree with people saying he is a mentally strong player (future captain material etc.). He could really benefit and show his full potential with someone like Maguire helping him out.

    Shaw could use some organisational talent around him too, and it seems Maguire is already stepping into that role. It could lift our team as whole, which is another positive from the game. Although I still see a lot of the fragility under pressure from the last many seasons, most of them seem genuinely interested in playing football for United again.

    Unlike last season, I didn't find myself wishing them all shipped off to the Arctic, which is a nice change. Football is definitely better, when you don't despise your own players, and them putting in a proper effort is a really positive change to see as a fan. Last highlight for me would be the nature of the goals. The first three very clinical, and James' goal obviously was a nice, wholesome way to wrap it all up.

    However, my overall feeling is one of continued concern about the tactical qualities of the squad. As far as I can see, we have "only" potentially solved the back line and added a bit more quality on the counter. We were playing a fairly weak and inexperienced Chelsea side, that just switched the manager and lost their offensive talisman in Hazard. And to be honest they played us off the park. They looked confident, with sharp and fast passing, and managed to produce a number of chances and half-chances, which better players would have converted to a comfortable lead. I think Lampard is right to feel hard done by, given how the momentum could have swung in their favor, had they taken just one of those chances.

    Contrast that with United, who looked shaky until we had a comfortable goal advantage (apart from Maguire and AWB, who don't yet have the "United bug"), couldn't deal with Chelsea's surprisingly good pressure game, and hardly managed to string two passes together in midfield. People have really been talking up McTominay, but I struggle to see the merits of this. He was basically just running around a lot being bypassed easily as Chelsea kept slicing us open.

    Further up field United didn't fare much better in my opinion. As far as I can tell, Martial and Rashford are not consistently strong short passers, and while they took their goals very well, we will need to be able to create chances through intelligent link-up play and movement against better and more organized sides. They dither constantly, taking too many touches, trying lots of low-return confidence flicks and tricks and pointless dribbles, which usually amount to little end product.

    Pogba was pulling out all the old tricks too unfortunately - dribbling and holding on to the ball, when he should be releasing it, taking stupid risks too close to goal, and not really looking switched on for the entire first half. Sure he improved, and he has the kind of stuff in his locker, that allows him to create a goal out of nowhere (ie. the 3-0). He has to start playing smart and concentrated football again like he did in his first season, or we will really struggle to create on a regular basis. Then there is Pereira and Lingard. Yeah, not much to say. Nice assist from the former and a few runs from the latter, but if they're actually seen as part of the first eleven for this team...well, it doesn't fill me with confidence. Are they going to massively improve out of nowhere, and if not, are hoping that youth players like Gomes will just hit it out of the park?

    Wolves will be a very interesting game for us. They're an organized side, and they will challenge all of our weak points - including Maguire's lack of pace, that is if they even allow us to take possession. If we have a bad game there, we could see some serious deflation again I fear. Hopefully the big win helped settle a few nerves, but where is the breakthrough going to come from? We could struggle to maintain pressure and pin them back, given the lack of midfield quality.

    Will our fullbacks manage to get in behind? Will it even matter, if our forwards can't do much in the box anyway? We don't really have anyone who can threaten from long range either. Imagine the difference a set piece specialist like Eriksen could have made in a game like this. Actually, imagine the difference a player like Eriksen could have made for our entire season! I hope they will have a new strategy for these types of games.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2019
  8. Aug 13, 2019

    DCP New Member

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    It makes me laugh when we have just beat Chelsea 4-0, yet people are saying 'but Wolves will be a tough task'. Chelsea, no matter how poor their summer has been, are still a better team that Wolves.
  9. Aug 13, 2019

    overtheborder New Member

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    To be fair to Wolves, whether or not they're a better team than Chelsea, they're still a tough team to play against and have plenty of talent and fight, I'd agree it's a tough task.
  10. Aug 13, 2019

    TRUERED89 New Member

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    If we won the league, you'd still say "better sides would have stopped us wining the league" give it a rest! :lol:. No team is perfect and flawless for 90 mins. It was a fantastic result!
  11. Aug 13, 2019

    Relfy Full Member

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    Great result, and yes, we perhaps did ride our luck a tiny bit, but we ran out deserved winners overall. Maguire and AWB looked composed and I am sure they will add a great deal to our defensive play. Quick counter attacking which paid dividends for us too.

    First game of the season so I won't be getting too excited, but a great start from the lads and feel all fans need to get behind the team this year.
  12. Aug 13, 2019

    RuudTom83 Full Member

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    There is something quite calming about the way Ole has gone about his task.

    Give him time and a bit more tweaking to the squad and then United will be in a very good position.
  13. Aug 13, 2019

    Alemar Full Member

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    It couldn’t be. Kepa saved a low shot from Martial in the first half, so it must have been more than 4 shots on target
  14. Aug 13, 2019

    Chillosophy New Member

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    They play differently. Wolves will (probably) sit back and invite United to possession, we know this team can counterattack well but we've yet to see if United can break down a solid defense, which Wolves has. Molineux is a tough task.
  15. Aug 13, 2019

    mitchmouse Full Member

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    Of course what we took away was the points but I have a feeling that Chelsea are going to struggle as much as or even more than us to get into top four this season and losing Luiz late in the window probably helped us (not that I rate him that highly). I don't think our midfield is strong enough to battle it out with top teams in PL or Europa but we should aim to win the European trophy to get as back into CL. Lingard and Perriera contineu to look out of their depth and I'm not convinced by Martlal at Number None. Positives: DDG looked more like his old self, Maguire and Lindelof looked a if they'd be playing together for ages and AWB looks a good defender. If pogba forgets the tricks and flicks and plays early passes, he might change my mind about keeping him (but I'm not holding my breath). I liked the passion shown at goal celebrations rather than trying to win Britain's Got talent with embarrassing moves...
  16. Aug 13, 2019

    gerdm07 Full Member

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    Rashford and Martial are both fairly abysmal when it comes to decision-making. This is my biggest concern with both of them. Their "insight" is not close to top drawer and I've yet to see much to think it will improve. I really hope I'm wrong. A team can have one talented and dumb player, but I don't think a team can have two and be successful. I honestly do not know their best position and I think OSG will have them interchange quite a bit because he doesn't know either.

    I do know that if one of them shows he is not quite good enough we have options like Greenwood. This was really not the case last season.
  17. Aug 13, 2019

    Funky Futurista Full Member

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    Think we had a pretty decent first game. A nervy start, but the players grew into it. Tactically, Chelsea were better in the first half. Shaw was left to defend for himself on the left and Chelsea exploited that well. He also got isolated in attack, and were often in a 1v2 situation. If we are to keep using a 4-2-3-1 he's gonna need more support from the midfielders and attackers to be able to progress the ball.

    Pereira wasn't that good but I still think he deserves a chance this season. At his best he can be a real asset in attack, whilst he also runs his socks off which is crucial to our pressing. If he manages to make the right side his own and form a partnership with Wan-Bissaka we can at least have a decent right side this season. Although it will have to be adressed next window.

    The new signings were fantastic, they all did really well and I'm so happy for James to have gotten his first goal for us! The celebration was just pure emotion! He still has a lot to prove, but he could potentially turn out to be a real bargain for us!

    The midfield obviously needs work, but also support form the attackers in order to control the game better. I do think we will mostly be playing on the counter against the big sides, but we may need to go to a 4-3-3 in order to cope better when other teams overload our midfield. It will probably look better against sides that don't press as much.

    Martial and Rashford can really form a great striking partnership and if they do we can be deadly both on the counter and also causing havoc for teams that are playing deeper as long as chances are created for them.

    All in all a decent performance and something to build on! I think Ole is learning more and more about the team each game, and also about the PL. Hopefully we can see an exciting team this season!
  18. Aug 13, 2019

    Greck Full Member

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    Re: wanting to play quick and direct all game. Are you worried we might have no plan to control games? instead opting for a purely direct approach. The game against Wolves could give us an answer but we could speculate till then
  19. Aug 13, 2019

    roonster09 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018 Scout

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    We will dominate possession against Wolves as they just sit deep and try to hit on counter. Too small sample size to worry about anything for now.

    Also I don't think we will try to dominate possession against top 6 teams as they will play high line and we have good team to counter attack.
  20. Aug 13, 2019

    Isotope Full Member

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    That’s true. Does penalty count as shot?
  21. Aug 14, 2019

    westley New Member

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    No more Young on the wings
    No more Jones Smalling
    Counter like a lightning
    We're flying :D
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  22. Aug 15, 2019

    Rasendori Full Member

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    Defence work in progress which is to be expected given it was the first time the back four played together.

    Shaw can see the shirt number of his man, Barkley can possibly put Abraham through on goal, McTominay and Pogba have left the back four exposed
    [​IMG]

    Giroud is through on goal. Fortunately Pedro had tunnel vision and didn't see his teammate.
    [​IMG]

    Given that AWB will be expected to contribute offensively, we can expect this to be a regular occurence. He did actually win the ball back

    [​IMG]

    Abraham is through on goal as Maguire is trying to both cover Shaw and block a possible shot from Pedro.

    [​IMG]

    United conceded several crosses from our left side

    [​IMG]

    Can Maguire block the cross
    [​IMG]

    Abraham has got to be scoring from this cross. Showed his inexperience
    [​IMG]

    Should Lindelof be winning this in the air? Lack of communication between Bisakka and Lindelog. Poor defensive awareness from Bisakka. Bisakka's positioning was a slight concern of mine in preseason.
    [​IMG]

    Leads to De Gea being beaten from a tight angle
    [​IMG]

    Felt Pulisic would've made better decisions in the final third had he started. Giroud caused problems too