What will it take for Leicester to replace Arsenal as part of the 'Big 6'?

[Rozay]

At what point does this happen? Is it a question of revenue? Do they need to win a certain number if trophies or be better than them for a certain number of seasons more?

I think they have been a better team than them for a while, and of course, won the league 5 years ago so have been in and around the better sides for a while now. I think we opened the door of the ‘top 4’ and added Spurs to make a ‘top 6’ after not that much tbh, so just wondering if the group is sealed or can Leicester break in?

 

[Skills]

More trophies?

Arsenal for all their hilarious failures, still manage to regularly compete for trophies. They've won 2 FA cups in the last 4 seasons and also managed a Europa final. Even Spurs haven't overtaken them yet, because they unlike Arsenal just don't have the same innate draw for trophies for whatever reason.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Constantly finish in top 6 for decade may be?

 

[Bulldog United]

I'd be more interested in the question the other way around. Arsenal are now floating around in midtable obscurity going nowhere.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I think that number will probably just keep getting bigger. It wasn't too long ago when it was the "big 4" of United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. Since then City and Tottenham have been added. I could see it being the "big 8" with Leicester and Everton eventually being added in as well...

 

[Sylar]

Should trophies matter since spurs haven't won any to be part of the big six

I think a few more seasonal finishes in place of arsenal and they can take the place in the branding

 

[Traub]

Isn’t it just basically a combination of the most supported and most successful teams in the league?

 

[Bubz27]

If it's trophies, why are Tottenham in the big 6?

 

[ChaddyP]

Thought big 6 had to do with budgets.

 

[ninjaskill]

A decent run in Europe would help with the claims I think

 

[Siorac]

At the very least they should finish ahead of Arsenal and in the top 6 twice in a row, something they haven't managed yet.

 

[2 man midfield]

Staying power I guess. If they keep it up for 10 years then they’re as much a part of the furniture as city or Chelsea.

 

[Counterfactual]

Taken from Wikipedia... there's a pretty obvious gap between the "big 6" and the others. I think to be considered a "top 6" club, that club would have to finish consistently in the top-6 for years.

Number of top 6 finishes during 2010s

Club	Top 6 finishes
Manchester City	10
Tottenham	10
Chelsea	9
Arsenal	9
Manchester United	9
Liverpool	7
Leicester City	2
Everton	2
Southampton	1
Newcastle	1

 

[redshaw]

If it's trophies, why are Tottenham in the big 6?

Cheese room inside the stadium

 

[rcoobc]

I'd be more interested in the question the other way around. Arsenal are now floating around in midtable obscurity going nowhere.

They aren't the first of the big 6 / big 4 to finish hilariously low in the table though.

But I think the concept of a big 4/6 has lost all meaning these days.

 

[Chief123]

At what point does this happen? Is it a question of revenue? Do they need to win a certain number if trophies or be better than them for a certain number of seasons more?

I think they have been a better team than them for a while, and of course, won the league 5 years ago so have been in and around the better sides for a while now. I think we opened the door of the ‘top 4’ and added Spurs to make a ‘top 6’ after not that much tbh, so just wondering if the group is sealed or can Leicester break in?

It’s already happened. Arsenal are no longer top 6.

 

[Achilles McCool]

I would say that the question is moot. There is no longer a “6”!

For the sake of an argument, I would say that there’s now a semi-formal “Big 8” and that’ll be the new normal hierarchy going forward.

 

[Brad2020]

At what point does this happen? Is it a question of revenue? Do they need to win a certain number if trophies or be better than them for a certain number of seasons more?

I think they have been a better team than them for a while, and of course, won the league 5 years ago so have been in and around the better sides for a while now. I think we opened the door of the ‘top 4’ and added Spurs to make a ‘top 6’ after not that much tbh, so just wondering if the group is sealed or can Leicester break in?

Premier teams are getting better and better, so it may be the case of a rotating big seven, as opposed to a big six.

Leicester has wealthy owners who seem willing to invest which is a plus...but I'd say...

1) Leicester is going to have to find a striker on par or better than Vardy to keep their system going.... as he's long in the tooth.
2) Be able to retain their talent (Madison) from going to a club like Chelsea or Man Utd (Maguire/Chilwell)
3) Continue to bring in top talent
4) A couple years of consistently being in the top 4

I don't think they will replace Arsenal, as they will continue to invest and climb to, again it may be the case of a big 7, as the premier league becomes more and more competitive.

 

[Trequarista10]

If it's trophies, why are Tottenham in the big 6?

Nothing to do with trophies, it's always been down to league positions. Spurs have finished in the top 6 for 11 years in a row, and qualified for the CL 4 years in a row.

To answer the OP: Leicester would need to finish 6th or better for a few seasons in a row. Realistically they will need to stop selling their best players, because eventually it will catch up with them, as it did to Villa in the O'Neill era. They will also have to replace Vardy soon. If they also have to replace one or two of Maddison/Tielemans/Ndidi around the same time, it will be hard for them to keep up with teams who can happily spend and keep spending.

 

[rcoobc]

Taken from Wikipedia... there's a pretty obvious gap between the "big 6" and the others. I think to be considered a "top 6" club, that club would have to finish consistently in the top-6 for years.

Number of top 6 finishes during 2010s

Club	Top 6 finishes
Manchester City	10
Tottenham	10
Chelsea	9
Arsenal	9
Manchester United	9
Liverpool	7
Leicester City	2
Everton	2
Southampton	1
Newcastle	1

Yeah but no one cares who finished 5th or 6th.

So for top 4 finishes

Number of top 4 finishes during 2010s

Club	Top 4 finishes
Manchester City	10
Chelsea	8
Manchester United	7
Arsenal	6
Liverpool	5
Tottenham	4
Leicester City	1
Everton	0
Southampton	0
Newcastle	0

I think thats correct

 

[charlenefan]

It only became a top 6 when Arsenal and United started consistently finishing outside of the top 4 so to answer the OP 'What will it take for Leicester to replace Arsenal as part of the ‘Big 6?' - consistently finish above them

 

[Speedy30]

They need to at least match Arsenal's European Cup tally

 

[Bubz27]

Nothing to do with trophies, it's always been down to league positions. Spurs have finished in the top 6 for 11 years in a row, and qualified for the CL 4 years in a row.

To answer the OP: Leicester would need to finish 6th or better for a few seasons in a row. Realistically they will need to stop selling their best players, because eventually it will catch up with them, as it did to Villa in the O'Neill era. They will also have to replace Vardy soon. If they also have to replace one or two of Maddison/Tielemans/Ndidi around the same time, it will be hard for them to keep up with teams who can happily spend and keep spending.

Yeah I agree. Was just questioning the people saying it.

I think Vardy will be the hardest to replace. He's absolutely crucial to their style of play. They've replaced Kanye and Maguire and Drinkwater and Fuchs and Simpson and Huth and Albrighton well. But Vardy is the one I think they'll struggle with the most.

 

[Trequarista10]

I would say that the question is moot. There is no longer a “6”!

For the sake of an argument, I would say that there’s now a semi-formal “Big 8” and that’ll be the new normal hierarchy going forward.

I dunno about that. Arsenal are still above the likes of Everton and Leicester in the hierarchy, they would need to spend a fair while languishing in mid table before they lost their "big club" status. In theory they have the size/fanbase/income to be able to spend their way back up the table too. I don't know much about their owners or finances in recent years, but I imagine they will soon start doing what we did post Fergie and start throwing money at the team in desperation. Leicester and Everton couldn't do that, so a few bad transfers, or one or two poor managerial appointments, and they could face years of obscurity before being back. See Southampton recently who finished top 8 a few seasons in a row then dropped off, before that Villa from steady top 6/7 side to relegation, Newcastle before that.

 

[Gazza]

I count a "top" club as one with a strong enough basis for saying it will be able to challenge for trophies and finish in the top four for the next however many years, lets say 5. You could make a strong argument for any of the clubs termed "the top 6" right now - Arsenal is a judgment call, they have shown they can still win trophies and finish in and around the top 6, but they really have a mess of a squad to rebuild. Not sure I would say Leicester are there yet, they did win the league but apart from that one season they haven't looked likely to win any more trophies and haven't consistently finished top four either. They are on their way, though.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Previously it was:
Utd and Arsenal (The Big 2?)
Benitez and Mourinho arrive, was the CL finishing spots changed? It becomes the Top 4
City arrive and later spurs make incurssions so it again expands to the Big 6.

So does it expand to include Leicester or does Arsenals lack of acheivement drop them out?

My feeling is that group is about teams who challenge for the top 4 and accomplish it, thats why Spurs changed things to top 6. Leicester havent really acheived consistent CL qualification to be classed in the elite.

Arsenals inclusion is another matter.

 

[el3mel]

Ehh Arsenal will always a big team no matter their position in the table for me.

 

[Trequarista10]

Yeah I agree. Was just questioning the people saying it.

I think Vardy will be the hardest to replace. He's absolutely crucial to their style of play. They've replaced Kanye and Maguire and Drinkwater and Fuchs and Simpson and Huth and Albrighton well. But Vardy is the one I think they'll struggle with the most.

Got ya. Yeah Vardy is unique, and really sets the tone for them too, he's a real spearhead in that sense. Seems to be a popular figure in the dressing room too (although I find him kinda cringe but whatever).

Hate to say it but they will also miss Rodgers if he goes. Cringeworthy bellend but can't dispute he's a good manager. Not sure if a bigger club would go for him again, but I'm sure Rodgers' ego means he'll want to give himself a chance to win a PL title somewhere. Rodgers to Arsenal seems like the sort of thing that could happen at some point.

 

[Berbaclass]

Leicester finding a way to clone Jamie Vardy and keep hold of Maddison presumably.

 

[Crackers]

They need to at least match Arsenal's European Cup tally

What quantifies the european cup tally as a pre-requisite? If it were Spurs in this situation (of Arsenal), would we think the same way.
Basically, what do we see as parameters of entry the big six? Is it a consistency of results, or it winning actual cups?

 

[Bojan11]

What quantifies the european cup tally as a pre-requisite? If it were Spurs in this situation (of Arsenal), would we think the same way.
Basically, what do we see as parameters of entry the big six? Is it a consistency of results, or it winning actual cups?

Arsenal haven’t won a European cup. That’s the joke...

 

[Crackers]

Arsenal haven’t won a European cup. That’s the joke...

dear lord that went straight over my head

 

[Rozay]

It only became a top 6 when Arsenal and United started consistently finishing outside of the top 4 so to answer the OP 'What will it take for Leicester to replace Arsenal as part of the ‘Big 6?' - consistently finish above them

Not sure about that, it was always a ‘top 4’ with United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. City got rich and it expanded, no fecking chance it was expanded to include United, the most successful PL team! City and Spurs were invited into the club and it became a Big 6. When the ‘Big 4’ was in full swing I’m not even sure if City were in the PL! And Spurs were still just Spurs.

 

[Speedy30]

What quantifies the european cup tally as a pre-requisite? If it were Spurs in this situation (of Arsenal), would we think the same way.
Basically, what do we see as parameters of entry the big six? Is it a consistency of results, or it winning actual cups?

Arsenal don't have any European Cups.

 

[Speedy30]

dear lord that went straight over my head

It's late

 

[Crackers]

Arsenal don't have any European Cups.

dear lord that went straight over my head

 

[Crackers]

It's late

realistically though - what's expected of a club to be seen as a top 6 club? For me, it seems like longevity in that position. 5 years in my book?

 

[Rozay]

They aren't the first of the big 6 / big 4 to finish hilariously low in the table though.

But I think the concept of a big 4/6 has lost all meaning these days.

I don’t know about that. For all the ‘excitement of the Premier League’, the same 6 teams have typically finished in the Top 6 for years in whatever order. Leicester are a team that is beginning to threaten that group, and Arsenal are a team that look like they could finish outside the top 6 with some regularity.

The rest are often pretenders who fall back in line by the end of a season like Wolves, Sheffield, Everton here and there. Normally, the same teams finish in the top 6.

The thing with Leicester is that they not only broke into the top 6, but they won the actual league. Something that one of the traditional Big 6 has never done. They finished top 6 last season and look set to do it again. They are building a decent argument to not be considered as outsiders anymore.

 

[AkaAkuma]

Yeah but no one cares who finished 5th or 6th.

So for top 4 finishes

Number of top 4 finishes during 2010s

Club	Top 4 finishes
Manchester City	10
Chelsea	8
Manchester United	7
Arsenal	6
Liverpool	5
Tottenham	4
Leicester City	1
Everton	0
Southampton	0
Newcastle	0

I think thats correct

There you have it. Big 6 is about ability to qualify for the CL.

 

[CM]

More consistency and/or trophies. They also still have the feeling of a selling club a bit - a lot of their key players have moved on to bigger clubs in recent years.

I think they'll probably get the acknowledgement of a big side if they're still up there once Vardy winds down or retires.