Oh.
What would be the most worthy ‘double’ ?
- Thread starter dogwithabone
- Start date
By default, CL + whichever one of EPL, FAC, and LC. (In order of preferences)
Well... we know which 'doouble' we fancier.
Last edited:
About same for me. Tbh, I prefer us winning EPL to UCL because I want to see us above city and it is also statement from United that we are the biggest club. Of course, winning UCL will be incredible and it's fun to wind liverfool fans up.
About same for me. Tbh, I prefer us winning EPL to UCL because I want to see us above city and it is also statement from United that we are the biggest club. Of course, winning UCL will be incredible and it's fun to wind liverfool fans up.
People keep on mentioning Liverpool 2005 and Chelsea 2012, but keep ignoring the other side of the coin.
There have been many teams, like Barcelona 2010, Real Madrid 2012, or Bayern 2016 who did not win the Champions League but were nevertheless unbelievably good teams who would have won the Premier League easily.
By that logic, surely the Champions League is harder to win?
There have been many teams, like Barcelona 2010, Real Madrid 2012, or Bayern 2016 who did not win the Champions League but were nevertheless unbelievably good teams who would have won the Premier League easily.
By that logic, surely the Champions League is harder to win?
If we miss top 4 but win champions league, i'll be willing to watch another boring season under Mourinho
To be considered as best team in Europe, you have to win both league and the European cup, That's why United treble winning 1999 sides were best English sides during Premier League era after beating Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Juventus, that was a most impressive achievement by United and get more credit than Liverpool 2005.
There's a lot of ghost best team that didn't win UCL comfortably such as United 2004 and 2007, Barcelona 2010, Bayern 2012, Milan 2005 so they are all forgotten. Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Millan had some lucks, it's a miracle but they were not easily the best team in the competition, just dark horse.
United run away with the league in 2000 with 18 points lead ahead of second-placed Arsenal, they are just forgotten because they were not the best team in people's eye. and it will happen to City if City didn't win UCL, they have to win it to be remembered as one of best team this generation.
There's a lot of ghost best team that didn't win UCL comfortably such as United 2004 and 2007, Barcelona 2010, Bayern 2012, Milan 2005 so they are all forgotten. Chelsea, Porto, Inter and Millan had some lucks, it's a miracle but they were not easily the best team in the competition, just dark horse.
United run away with the league in 2000 with 18 points lead ahead of second-placed Arsenal, they are just forgotten because they were not the best team in people's eye. and it will happen to City if City didn't win UCL, they have to win it to be remembered as one of best team this generation.
Is the answer to this thread "Not the one City are on for"?
You've got to say that if we win the CL this season, that alone would overshadow any domestic achievement by City this season. We're being portrayed, mostly by our own fans, to be the worst team left in that competition.
You've got to say that if we win the CL this season, that alone would overshadow any domestic achievement by City this season. We're being portrayed, mostly by our own fans, to be the worst team left in that competition.
Realistically? Win the FA cup this season and City not winning the UCL. The latter is a trophy in my books.
CL and FA Cup is better obviously
I don't think either is more worthy.
If we did either double I would be chuffed regardless of what City do.
People need to revel in our glories and enjoy them rather than one upsmanship over other teams
If we did either double I would be chuffed regardless of what City do.
People need to revel in our glories and enjoy them rather than one upsmanship over other teams
I always hated the whole "Ferguson underachieved in Europe" nonsense people said and I would not trade any of his league titles for another CL win.
So the best team doesn't always win it, which devalues it for me. Something like an undeserved red card, penalty or an injury to a key player can be the difference between winning it or crashing out.
This whole idea of "undeserved" wins is rather strange. Football is a game. If you win playing by the rules, you deserved it, no ifs and buts. If a small side beats Barcelona, which 9 times out of 10 doesn't happen, does it mean they did not deserve it? This is why the CL knockout stage is played over 2 legs. If you can "fluke" your way to actually winning the CL, you can "fluke" it to win a domestic league as well. Realistically, most of the time the title is down to a 2 horse race so you end up with similar "luck" factor involved, a red card here and a penalty there making the difference. CL winners are never forgotten because they did not win their league that year, that just doesn't happen. Can anyone actually imagine us winning it this season and then our own fans complaining that it wasn't deserved because we weren't the "best" team in the competition? Seems too much even for the caf.
One time at band camp me and my friend...
...worthy double
...worthy double
Bravo.
I always say winning your domestic league is the most important as it’s the most lengthy and challenging competition.
However, it’s been too long since we last won a CL and wouldn’t mind going a couple more seasons without the league if we could (unlikely) bag one.
However, it’s been too long since we last won a CL and wouldn’t mind going a couple more seasons without the league if we could (unlikely) bag one.
Champions League is more prestigious than the Premier League. FA Cup is more prestigious than the League Cup. City could have done a domestic treble and I'd rank a CL over it.
However, in the style City are likely to win the league this year, the difference will likely be marginal in the eyes of the media and fans of non-Manchester clubs should this happen.
However, in the style City are likely to win the league this year, the difference will likely be marginal in the eyes of the media and fans of non-Manchester clubs should this happen.
This, would probably trade the lost CL finals though for PL's 95*, 98, 2010, 2012
*United would have won this if 2 points for win was still in place.
Not this again... why does it matter if you can’t make some irrelevant claim of being the undisputed best? The best team doesn’t always win, that’s the brilliance and excitement of sport. Only a minority of fans would give a shit about the title of ‘the best’, they’d be too busy celebrating winning a prestigious trophy.
Obvious answer, but you wouldn't think it from some of the comments.
For us at this moment in time I'd take the champions league over the premier league all day. The only club close to catching us up on league titles is Liverpool and in this current highly competitive league I dont think they can win 2-3 before we win another one. We need to boost our European trophy count and put ourselves up there with Madrid, Milan, Barca, and dare I say Liverpool.
CL/FA Cup. A CL win can occasionally be hollow if you've completely fluked your way to it like Chelsea in 2012, but for the most part it remains the biggest competition out there...obviously. And the FA Cup likewise is bigger than the League Cup.
I'd swap around FA Cup and Europa League. Winning it last season was nice, but it's basically a competition you win when you're not good enough to be advancing to the latter stages of a much better competition. The FA Cup, while not exactly as prestigious as the PL, nevertheless has a fairly immense history behind it and generally involves competing against the country's best domestic sides...or the minnows who've been the countries best domestic sides.
Ask any supporter of a continental European team that question and he would declare you insane for even asking that. Why are Brits so focused on the League?
Must have something to do with their British “we don’t need them” arrogance
Must have something to do with their British “we don’t need them” arrogance
I've always felt this way, it's not a popular opinion - but it doesn't feel right to call yourself the champions of Europe if you're not the champions of your own league at the same time.
For me it’s either a JD and coke or a brandy. I’m not to keen on vodka.
The word deserve is a tricky one. I think the obsession with quality with which the win was achieved is down to the desire for long term dominance. Take for example our team in 2007 and Chelsea in 2012. We were desperately unlucky with the injuries and how much the league run took from us and ended up falling short to AC Milan. We did not win the CL but anyone could see that team was destined for greatness. The league form and our level of performance in the big games which is the number one indicator of quality was too high that it was inevitable we will achieve more substantial success and sure enough we went on to have quite the run domestically and in Europe. Chelsea on the other hand did actually win the CL but again you knew that that was it. Their quality level was simply far from the best teams so you knew they had no chance playing with that team to establish a strong European pedigree like we did. That's the thing with flukes, they don't happen often.
So obviously when you are a team that is not used to success, you won't care. You won't mind that you fluked it because ultimately all that matters is that in the history books, your name was on the trophy. That one night alone is enough. But when you are the very elite clubs, you are looking for greatness which comes through dominance and consistency which is why they talk about showing a higher level of quality and obsessing over it even if it means giving up something short term. They are not saying that they won't take an undeserved win, they are saying that they are greedy for more and they know they can only get lucky once.
I think that's a really valid point. I've long felt that this inwards mentality in English football did not help English teams and the England fans throughout history. But I don't think it is necessarily insane as you claim. Part of the reason the league is so successful and attractive worldwide is that very mentality. The tribal nature in English football means fans get their competitive fix on a regular basis. So whereas I am jealous of the likes of Milan and Real boasting the numbers they do and I do think that a change in mentality from English clubs might help get close to them, I wouldn't give up just yet the tribalism of English football that contributes to treating the league as the number one trophy.Ask any supporter of a continental European team that question and he would declare you insane for even asking that. Why are Brits so focused on the League?
Must have something to do with their British “we don’t need them” arrogance
Mostly agree, except the bolded ones, slightly.
Whichever team wins CL or the league, always deserved it, irrespective of having "luck" and getting "fluke" or not, which is already funny concepts, because in a football match, if you win, you win and deserved it. Chances to win happened even if it's just one chance, you take it and win and deserved it for taking the chance. Doesn't matter if the losing teams dominate possession and showcase their higher levels/talents literally dominating the match or completely bully you all over the park, if they don't win, then they don't deserve it.
Back to the bolds, CL is not really a league for me, its format and system is different than the proper leagues eg. EPL and Bundesliga. It doesn't accumulate points at later stage where it turns into more of like a cup/knock-out tornament but with some adjustments. I like though because it really does test teams to the fullest, in a semi-league and semi-cup kind of structure. The first stage is a short league, the best two teams of the group always advance (good run of form first half of season is more important, quality helps too of course), rarely it's "fluke", unless two team have the same pts and GD, and it's the last match of the group. The second stage is a cup run essentially, but with two games, so if you lose once, you have another chance to comeback win. The away goal is often always "abused" and helps teams to progress to the next stage. This kind of system with the later knock-out stages makes it hard for sure in determining the team that won CL to be regarded as the best, and hence authenticated with the "deserved" tag. To progress and win it is still a big achievement for any team, irrespective of their performance and gain "fluke" and "lucks". Simply, yes team can fluke win CL and they deserved it, since it's within the rules and structure.
Proper leagues with its common accumulation points leagu-ish format is different. It's obvious, and always the case that the team in any leagues that won it is the best team of that league and easily agreed upon to deserve it, despite some games where they lose due to "fluke" or "luck". It's true, that it affects points, but this "fluke" and "luck" happened to every teams throughout the whole season, not just at the . Season league is divided into two halfs, the best team that won it have good run of form in both i.e. good in accumulating points on average. So if it becomes a two-teams race, then the title-deciding match between the two (if it happened) at the near end, will decide who is bestier of these two best teams, and if it turned into a fluke win, then it's still football, the team that win the match still deserve it, bear in mind the losing teams got fluke wins in other different matches anyway. At the end, it's simply teams that get more points that deserve and win it. Simply, the points accumulating structure means team can't fluke winning domestic league.
To be fair I think that Fergie himself would trade a few of his league titles for another CL win. He admitted himself that one of his biggest regrets was not winning more CL titles.
His record of winning it is amazing enough already, but ya I suppose by his high-cheat-code standard
for him, it's underachieved.FA Cup is always bigger than the League Cup. Champions League vs EPL is a different story. For example, most will put the Champions League as the biggest trophy to win, however I don't think anyone would argue that when Liverpool last won the Champions League and finished 5th (58 points and tied with Bolton) in the league that they had a better season than Chelsea (95 points). So the only way that I can honestly say that we can have bragging rights over City in this scenario is if we beat them along the way to hoisting the Champions League. But even that would depend on us also winning the FA Cup...
I think it all depends on the situation. A team like Liverpool who hasn't won the EPL since Macaulay Culkin was abandoned by his parents at Christmas would definitely trade the Champions League for an EPL title. However, a team like City or Arsenal who have never won the Champions League would take that over an EPL title in a heartbeat...
Not what again? Somebody having a different opinion to yours? Don't be such a tit.
Where on earth have I said I wouldn't celebrate a Champions League win? I'd obviously be bloody delighted with it as would every other United fan.
I understand that its very important for you to appear clever and superior on an internet forum. Maybe that gives you some sort of validation you miss in day to day life and so, you belittle people's posts and call their opinions irrelevant.
But if you took a second to consider the context of the post and the question asked in the thread, you'd realise this was a "which would you prefer" question. Not one person has said they wouldn't like to win a Championship League this season - some have simply said they would prefer the other option offered and given reasons to explain why.
A small minority of posters on this forum seem more interested in scoring points and landing cheap digs than engaging in actual conversation. It would be more annoying if they were better at it but it's a shame all the same.
I don’t believe I called your opinion irrelevant. If it was irrelevant, I’d not have bothered responding. What I called irrelevant was the idea that you need to be ‘the best’ to properly validate a champions league win. I don’t understand why you’re resorting to personal attacks, I have no fecking idea frankly why you’re so offended by my post, or how you can deduce that I wish to appear clever on an Internet forum (guilty actually... I hardly wanna appear stupid do I?) in an effort to validate my existence. Again, needlessly hostile and off topic. Perhaps my comment was slightly aggressive but you’ve returned fire about tenfold which is rather hypocritical.
To address your point: I absolutely have a different opinion to yours, and I’m going to leave comments when I disagree with people. You left a comment which I disagreed with, I’m within my right to respond as you are within yours to not agree with my response. Doesn’t make me a tit, doesn’t make you a tit. Just a side note: you speak of cheap digs... you landed about 5, where were mine? Furthermore, where were my personal attacks? Either I’ve engaged you in the past and pissed you off and completely forgotten, or you’re having a shit day. Either way, you’re the only one resorting to petty digs mate, though I imagine the irony is lost on you.