What would Fergie’s starting XI be with this squad?

FujiVice

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------------------Henderson--------
AWB-----Maguire--Baily---Shaw
------------------Matic-------------------
---------McTominay-----Bruno---------
Rashford----------------Martial
--------------Cavani----------

And we'd probably win the league.
 

RashyForPM

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I think you are somewhat underrating the job Carrick used to do for us - if Matic were in his prime, I’d be more inclined to agree.
I’d agree with all, but McT would be in ahead of Matic I reckon, also Smalling or Evans would likely be still here and starting.
In his final decade (final decade :houllier: the legend was around for a while :lol:), he seemed to use a sitting midfielder to dictate the tempo of games more often (Keane as he got older, Carrick, 33 year old onwards Scholes). Matic is not as good as Carrick, no point even debating that, but he could do that job, surely better than Fred and most likely McT, although Fergie quite possibly would have played him all the time considering how he nurtured and developed Fletcher. McT is sort of a b-tech Fletcher atm, hope he matches the latter’s prime as he reaches his.

With Evans and Smalling, I meant current squad only. Tbf, we’d probably have Rafael at RB with an Evans-Jones partnership if he was still around. That was his plan for Moyes, who inexplicably just played Rio every game until his body couldn’t take it anymore.
 

ReallyUSA

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He would kill Martial for some of the shit he pulled this year.
 

GioF

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Ddg
Awb Bailly Maguire Shaw
Scott
Fernandes Pogba
Rashford Cavani Martial​
 

jem

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------------------Henderson--------
AWB-----Maguire--Baily---Shaw
------------------Matic-------------------
---------McTominay-----Bruno---------
Rashford----------------Martial
--------------Cavani----------

And we'd probably win the league.
Switch Pogba in for McTominay and I think it would be possible.
 

Charlie Foley

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At the back, the first name people will talk about is Jones. Well, Fergie rated him very highly (we can tell simply from THAT interview) and if he was still here, you can guarantee that injuries aside, he’d have been possibly Varane level and our main CB for the past decade.
You can guarantee it or it’s possible?
 

Trequarista10

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Honestly think SAF would have played Bruno off the left most of the time in a lopsided 442. He had little interest in number 10s.

Two of Rashford, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood upfront.
Bruno drifting in from the left.
James on the right.
Shaw or Telles given a license to bomb forwards.
Rest of the team picks it self really.

As a couple people have posted though SAF rotated a huge amount, especially towards the end, with just a few guaranteed starters and numerous others competiting and being picked on a horses for courses basis.

Only thing is lack of genuine wingers, SAF would definitely have had at least a couple in the squad whereas we only have Dan James as even an option. Possibly Rashford would have been played right wing from the start if he broke through under SAF.
 

Lemon Moon

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DDG

AWB Bailly Maggy Shaw

G'wood Scotty Bruno Pogba

Cavani Rashford
 

Fitchett

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Henderson
Wan Bissaka Bailly Maguire Shaw
Rashford Matic Fernandes Pogba
Cavani Greenwood
Subs would be McTominay as his Fletcher, James as his Park, Fred as his Anderson, Amad as a young Ronaldo.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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........,,,,,,,,,,,,,.....,,...De Gea
AWB
.........Bailly.......,,,,,Maguire.......Shaw
......,,,,....McTominay .........Pogba
.......,,,,,,.................Bruno
Greenwood
.......Cavani........,,Rashford
 

Lentwood

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SAF would have never found himself in a position whereby the only real CF at the club was a 34 year old free transfer so it’s somewhat of a difficult question to answer.

I feel SAFs team would be something like...

GK - Henderson
RB - AWB
LB - Shaw
CB - Maguire
CB - Lindelof
MC - McTominay
MC - Matic
MC - Fernandes
AML - Rashford
AMR - Dan James
ST - Cavani

However, I don’t think he would have sanctioned the signing of either Lindelof or Bailly and I feel we would have another “classic PL” defender in with Maguire. Potentially would we have kept Michael Keane? When you look at the CBs SAF bought over the years, the players who featured most were generally very good in the air - I’m thinking Pallister, Bruce, Johnsen, Stam, Vidic, Ferdinand etc...SAF wasted no time on defenders who weren’t up to the physical challenge of the PL.

The full backs sort of fit the SAF profile, being the best two English talents available at the time in those positions.

In midfield, there would have been more chance of hell freezing over than bringing back Pogba and Matic wouldn’t be a typical SAF signing either, neither would Fred.

I would suspect SAF would have targeted someone like Declan Rice to play alongside McTominay, who absolutely would have been a SAF player. Bruno does also strike me as a SAF player so I could see that happening.

I’m not sure any of the wide players would have cut it for SAF. James has the least ability but is perhaps the most typical SAF winger. Rashford doesn’t work hard enough - remember SAF either player 4-4-2 and expected 15Km out of Beckham and Giggs OR he played players like Rooney, Solskjaer (in later years) or Tevez as wide forwards because he could trust them to track back. Likewise Martial doesn’t work hard enough so I couldn’t see him surviving. Also, neither player hit the byline and whip in crosses. SAF loved someone who could deliver a killer cross. Although with both players, maybe SAF could have got hold of them earlier and got more out of them?

Greenwood would have been a classic SAF player but would have been eased in gently, much like Ole has done. I don’t really see that being managed too differently. The big change would be at CF, SAF would have probably spent all the Pogba money plus more on someone like Harry Kane and got that position nailed down. SAF was a striker himself and time and time again he went out and bought the best CF available because he firmly believed an amazing striker made a “good” team “great”.

As for the GK...well SAF was notoriously not all that patient with GKs and went through plenty. I actually think De Gea would already be gone and Henderson would have played 40 games by now this season. Whether he would have proved good enough, who knows?
 

Leftback99

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De Gea
AWB Lindelof Maguire Shaw
McTominay Pogba
Greenwood Bruno Rashford
Cavani

So the same as Ole basically.
 

MrBest

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I am really surprised to not see DVB in anyone's team so far, I think Fergie would have played him much more because he can actually pass the ball, link up play and add something different. He is no Carrick, but no chance he would have Mctominay and Fred, two players who are clueless with the ball.

Henderson
AWB Bailey Maguire Shaw
Matic DVB
Pogba
Bruno Rashford
Cavani

I can see him gaining width with Bruno drifting wide left and Rashford hard on the right. Matic would be asked to protect and Donny more of a box to box. Pogba would be the creative spark with Bruno drifting wide when needed.

I'm not sure how much longer Fergie would put up with this Rashford, he isnso wasteful and poor at decisions. Hendo definitely would have replaced de gea by now.
 

The Law of Denis

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He'd win the league by 15 points.

DDG

Williams
Maguire
Jones
Shaw

Rashford
Scholes
Giggs
James

Bruno

Greenwood
 

jackal&hyde

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Is this thread a test? Ferguson didn't have a first XI for any situation. He rotated and picked bespoke. tailored sides more than any other manager has done.
This.

Also, SAF is still around the club and it would be silly not to think that he discusses things with Ole.
 

rcoobc

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The difficulty with guessing about what Fergie would do is that he changed so much over the years. For years he played 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1, but then post Ruud suddenly started playing all sorts of variations on 4-5-1 or 4-3-3, especially when he was accommodating Ronaldo a bit later down the line. One interesting thought would be to consider what the 1999 version of SAF would play. Im guessing the following

Henderson
AWB - Bailly - Maguire - Shaw
Rashford - Matic - Bruno - James
Cavani - Greenwood
The defence mainly picks itself. Henderson in net for sure.

In 1999 it wasn't that common to see inverted wingers. Rashford would be a definite starter, so I think he'd be played on the right in his "natural" position as a right footer. James would end up on the left due to a lack of options in that position. In the middle, he'd have the classic enforcer + creator pairing that we saw in Keane and Scholes, with Bruno pushing up to make the extra man in the penalty area as often as possible. Up front, he was wedded to using two strikers in that era, so I think he'd go for Cavani and Greenwood, two "real" strikers.

Game plan would be classic 90s Fergie. Maguire or Matic to win the ball, recycle it quickly wide with 2 or 3 passes, where the full back would make a decoy run and create space for the wide player to swing the ball into the box. Then either the two strikers riff off each other to make a chance, or Bruno arrives super late to overload the defence and get a free hit on the ball from 18 yards out.
I think this is pretty close to what it would be, although not sure about Rashford on the right. But who knows
 

The Siege

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Hendo
AWB - Bailly - Maguire - Shaw
Matic
Bruno - Fred
Amad - Cavani - Rashford


Maguire would only be playing to raise his price tag for a summer sale.
I genuinely believe SAF would give Amad a 5-10 game run out and then assess where he needs to play his football - 'Good enough, old enough' style.
Matic would get yelled at every single day, but be utilized extensively better.
He'd turn Fred into an intense workhorse, and tell him to the stick the long shots where the sun don't shine till he gets far better at them.
 

RashyForPM

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Hendo
AWB - Bailly - Maguire - Shaw
Matic
Bruno - Fred
Amad - Cavani - Rashford


Maguire would only be playing to raise his price tag for a summer sale.
I genuinely believe SAF would give Amad a 5-10 game run out and then assess where he needs to play his football - 'Good enough, old enough' style.
Matic would get yelled at every single day, but be utilized extensively better.
He'd turn Fred into an intense workhorse, and tell him to the stick the long shots where the sun don't shine till he gets far better at them.
Generally agree with this and the rest of your post but I put Greenwood in my team because while Sir Alex thought outside the box to sort out problem positions a lot (Cleverley, Obertan, Carrick at CB), would he really be putting Amad in over an academy graduate with one of the best seasons for a teenager in the PL under his belt? Don’t think so personally. Having said that, he could easily use Amad on the right with Mason up front and Cavani as the impact sub.
 

The Siege

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Generally agree with this and the rest of your post but I put Greenwood in my team because while Sir Alex thought outside the box to sort out problem positions a lot (Cleverley, Obertan, Carrick at CB), would he really be putting Amad in over an academy graduate with one of the best seasons for a teenager in the PL under his belt? Don’t think so personally. Having said that, he could easily use Amad on the right with Mason up front and Cavani as the impact sub.
Yeah, I felt in Sir Alex's eyes Greenwood would just be treated as the 2nd striker option after Cavani. I don't think he'd believe that Greenwood has the Rooney-esque versatility to play the wide forward/winger role. He's a striker, and we'd make sure he'd become the best damn striker.
 

Grande

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Not sure what year the first one would be? Giggs was a staple in the side from 91/92...rotation was less back then of course but 93/94 was probably the closest we came to a first choice XI (though even the had the Sharpe /Kanchelskis switcheroo)

98/99 I don't think you can ever say Scholes or Butt were first XI over the other, played just as man games.

The last line up didn't even start the CL final!

Thats the thing with Fergie it was never really a first XI... It was a squad game to him, and whatever XI was best used to win that particular game.
Well, I get your point. I, and probably also most managers, would say it’s a squad game too, though I think not saying Ferguson never had a more or less clearly defined first XI is a bit of an exaggeration.

Granted, you can discuss some of the positions by rights. My memory did a trick on me, Giggs of course displaced Sharpe about as soon as Kanchelskis came, and Sharpe was ‘resorted’ to playing LB, CM and RW without really becoming an equal-to-first-choices there. So it should be Giggs in that first eleven of 1991-92.

Scholes and Butt is a legitimate doubt, of course, as I remember it, Butt probably was Ferguson’s preferred partner for Keane going into the 1998/99 season, but it was also maybe the season where Scholes showed himself to be even better.

CL finals are one off games where tactical one off choices normally playes a part.

Of course players will come and go, wax and wane, while the shift from the 70’s of one sub only, players playing through injury by default have gradually given way to squads of 30+players playing four tournaments with up to 60 games a season plus internationals, but I take ‘a clear first 11 means that a manager and most others knows more or less who his best 11 is barring the need for tactical reeaks, rotation and injuries.

To me it’s not a contradiction between talking about a squad game and a first XI under those conditions, and I would say that for 2007/2008, the top choice was fairly given when Hargreaves couldn’t really break up Carrick and Scholes. He was an injury solution at RB (a good one for a while!), Anderson, Fletcher and Nani where rotational and phased in for the future, whereas Park was an important tactical variation.It’s the way I remember it, anyway.
 

TMDaines

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Well, I get your point. I, and probably also most managers, would say it’s a squad game too, though I think not saying Ferguson never had a more or less clearly defined first XI is a bit of an exaggeration.
Just look at how many times some of Ferguson's most iconic XIs actually played together and the records he set in constantly rotating his team. He went 165 games from late 2008 until March 2011 without naming an unchanged starting XI. I swear too he once went a whole season never playing the same XI twice, but I may be confusing that stat.

Asking what Ferguson's starting XI would be with this squad, in a complete vacuum, is completing missing how he selected teams and built squads, and this thread suggests that many fans are completely missing the point in how United should go about building their squad to be serial winners again.

If Ferguson was still managing today, we would have even less of a concept of a first XI. Maguire and Lindelof would play less, AWB would play less, Rashford would play less and many of the squad players would play more.
 

Patchbeard

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Honestly think SAF would have played Bruno off the left most of the time in a lopsided 442. He had little interest in number 10s.

Two of Rashford, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood upfront.
Bruno drifting in from the left.
James on the right.
Shaw or Telles given a license to bomb forwards.
Rest of the team picks it self really.

As a couple people have posted though SAF rotated a huge amount, especially towards the end, with just a few guaranteed starters and numerous others competiting and being picked on a horses for courses basis.

Only thing is lack of genuine wingers, SAF would definitely have had at least a couple in the squad whereas we only have Dan James as even an option. Possibly Rashford would have been played right wing from the start if he broke through under SAF.
I could be wrong here...as I was only a kid at the time. But I always thought Cantona played a bit like a modern day no.10, albeit dropping off the front rather than driving from midfield, whilst Giggs and Kanchelkskis were both very attacking wingers. So if you had a heatmap from the mid 90s I reckon we actually played more like a 4231...even if it was a 442 on paper.

So I reckon he would play Bruno off the striker in a Cantona/Rooney style role, with Rashford and James on the flanks (or he just would've bought a better winger), and then Cavani/Greenwood up top. Martial would be rotting in the reserves.
 

tenpoless

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kthanksbye

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Cavani Greenwood up front, Rashford and Bruno on the wings, Pogba Scott midfield and the same back 4 with Jones in there whenever available.
 

dinostar77

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Fergie adapted well to whatever tactical innovations were the most successful at that given time.

Personally i think he would look at City and see their success with their schemers and diminutive players and probably do something similar.

DeGea
AWB Bailly Maguire Telles
Mctominay
Mata DVB Bruno Rashford
Cavani

Leaving Pogba out for now as i dont think fergie would have allowed him back to Utd.
 

Zlatattack

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We'd have a whole different squad if SAF was still around. There is no chance Zaha would have gone and Kane would definitely be a Manchester United player.

Maguire would have been signed from Hull and Smalling would likely be partnering him, although he'd have likely snapped VVD from Celtic.

Also Shaw would be competing with Tierney. Didn't he have Fabregas signed up too?
 

OleTheGreat

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Regardless of the teams you put out and think it would be SAF's choice. I think the first and foremost thing about SAF was that he was ruthless with his players. His dressing room speeches were unforgiving and asked the best from the players he put out every time. I have watched many games where SAF has fielded players who have never featured in the positions meant for them yet would deliver in the position they were asked to play in. SAF cannot be compared to any of the coaches these days because he had something so different in him that none of the modern managers have. He was on top of things for 26 years at United and I have watched many many documentaries of him where people repeatedly mentioned that Sir Alex always always remembered the names of people associated with the club and would always address them by their names. I hardly think any of the managers in the current days can do that and for that long.

SAF was a master of what he did and he would've handled everything different to the past managers we've had since his departure. All I have to say is, it doesn't matter the team you choose but it all depends on the attitude and commitment you show to the team and your club and if he was not satisfied, you'd be elsewhere. In the past years we have compromised a lot in that area. Ole has finally kept a few players outside for not performing to their merits but he still has a soft corner for a few but that's not his fault because he only has a few quality players to choose from and he has to trust in their ability. I hope he's given the players of his choosing in the market that is coming up.

SAF would've totally done things differently and a lot of things would be different if he were still here. No comparison for me! Ole is good and he's doing it his way and I think we should back up and hope we're on the right track.
 

bosnian_red

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We'd have a whole different squad if SAF was still around. There is no chance Zaha would have gone and Kane would definitely be a Manchester United player.

Maguire would have been signed from Hull and Smalling would likely be partnering him, although he'd have likely snapped VVD from Celtic.

Also Shaw would be competing with Tierney. Didn't he have Fabregas signed up too?
That's an overly idealistic view. We never signed Shearer, we failed to sign Hazard, Bale, Varane etc, Pogba left under him... Theres too many players in the world of football and a lot of competition to say this one player for sure would have come. Best we can go with is the players we have now and how they would (likely) be used!
 

bosnian_red

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Honestly think SAF would have played Bruno off the left most of the time in a lopsided 442. He had little interest in number 10s.

Two of Rashford, Martial, Cavani and Greenwood upfront.
Bruno drifting in from the left.
James on the right.
Shaw or Telles given a license to bomb forwards.
Rest of the team picks it self really.

As a couple people have posted though SAF rotated a huge amount, especially towards the end, with just a few guaranteed starters and numerous others competiting and being picked on a horses for courses basis.

Only thing is lack of genuine wingers, SAF would definitely have had at least a couple in the squad whereas we only have Dan James as even an option. Possibly Rashford would have been played right wing from the start if he broke through under SAF.
Bruno is being used and playing pretty much like how Sir Alex used Rooney for years. Rashford would definitely be used like a Ronaldo type as a winger. You say he didn't like #10's, but its really the Ozil type he didn't like, he loved second striker types. What he almost never did was a #10 being used wide like Mata. He tried Kagawa there for a little bit in his last season... that's pretty much it. Was pace/trickery but most importantly directness throughout for the rest of his time on the wings. Kanchelskis/ Sharpe/ Giggs/ Beckham/ Ronaldo/ Nani/ Valencia/ Young etc.. It would 100% be Rashford left, and likely James on the right since he's the closest we have to a right winger, with it being a position of focus to improve. Could easily see it being a lop sided 4-4-2 like in 2007/08, Rashford an advanced left winger, the other winger being a work horse type, Bruno like Rooney as a second striker, but then Cavani/Greenwood/Martial as a normal #9 which we didn't have then.
 

Grande

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Just look at how many times some of Ferguson's most iconic XIs actually played together and the records he set in constantly rotating his team. He went 165 games from late 2008 until March 2011 without naming an unchanged starting XI. I swear too he once went a whole season never playing the same XI twice, but I may be confusing that stat.

Asking what Ferguson's starting XI would be with this squad, in a complete vacuum, is completing missing how he selected teams and built squads, and this thread suggests that many fans are completely missing the point in how United should go about building their squad to be serial winners again.

If Ferguson was still managing today, we would have even less of a concept of a first XI. Maguire and Lindelof would play less, AWB would play less, Rashford would play less and many of the squad players would play more.
I don’t disagree with you in regards to rotation and squad management, but as I said, I don’t think that really stands in opposition to having a preferred first XI, or preferred first choices for most positions if you will. What’sthat card game where you sit on your best cards until it is exactly the right time to play them? That is how Ferguson would manage a squad over a season. He’d still have a pretty clear idea which cards were his aces, I think, and I think it showed. But I agree, different XI for different situations was also a trademark of his.

He might have rotated more than Ole, but I’m not sure. Ole does rotate quite a bit, and it also makes more sense to totate less when you’re in the middle of the building up part of the process as opposed to at the beginning or when you’ve established a form of play.
 

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Trequarista10

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Bruno is being used and playing pretty much like how Sir Alex used Rooney for years. Rashford would definitely be used like a Ronaldo type as a winger. You say he didn't like #10's, but its really the Ozil type he didn't like, he loved second striker types. What he almost never did was a #10 being used wide like Mata. He tried Kagawa there for a little bit in his last season... that's pretty much it. Was pace/trickery but most importantly directness throughout for the rest of his time on the wings. Kanchelskis/ Sharpe/ Giggs/ Beckham/ Ronaldo/ Nani/ Valencia/ Young etc.. It would 100% be Rashford left, and likely James on the right since he's the closest we have to a right winger, with it being a position of focus to improve. Could easily see it being a lop sided 4-4-2 like in 2007/08, Rashford an advanced left winger, the other winger being a work horse type, Bruno like Rooney as a second striker, but then Cavani/Greenwood/Martial as a normal #9 which we didn't have then.
Nah Bruno plays a lot deeper than Rooney, even younger Rooney who liked to drop deep to collect the ball (and got shouted at by SAF who wanted him to conserve energy and play further up). Rooney would be trying to recieve the ball just in front of the CBs, Bruno drops right into midfield.

SAF also played Kagawa wide left more than as #10. His last few years he definitely had a spell of talking about the "Zidane role", i.e. a number 10 drifting in from the wing with a bombarding full back overlapping. He never really signed number 10s so only Kagawa and arguably post-35 year old Giggs to by, or arguably Park.