I don't think our football has been great at all this season, in fact it's been pretty dire for the most part, but it's all about results now. Previously I said that at the very least he should make a real go of top 4 (or 5) and go on a decent cup run to stay in the job but looking at Spurs and Chelsea's problems and the stuff happening at City (with 5th spot potentially now worth a CL place), CL qualification is an absolute must now. He's been backed in the January window and this squad of players should be enough to get the job done. I really don't think it's being unreasonable to set that minimum target.
What would make you change your opinion on Ole
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
It had nothing to do with passing up the opportunity to sign Klopp -Liverpool would have sacked Rodgers regardless, because he had completely lost the dressing room. He took a team that finished 2nd and finished the 14/15 season with 8 Points in 9 matches - including losing 4-1 to Arsenal, 6-1 to Stoke and 3-1 at home to Palace.
Then they allowed him to stay on for the 15/16 season and he started with 3 wins, 5 Draws and 2 defeats in the first 10 matches. So his last 19 matches in charge gave Liverpool 22 Points including 4-5 horrible defeats.
So it was of course bloody smart of Liverpool to hire Klopp - but Rodgers would have been sacked even if Klopp wasn't available.
Tough to say really, think Ole is a good tactician, but poor coach overall- If we start to show that we can play attacking football, press and retain possession well and get a top 4 finish its difficult to sack him, also considering the amount of injuries key players have had and the fact we had a thin squad to begin with.
But, if its still pretty defensive and counter- attacking, relying on moments to win games then he has to go.
But, if its still pretty defensive and counter- attacking, relying on moments to win games then he has to go.
Ole inherited problems, he did not create them and he is not the cause of them. So I am willing to give him quite a lot of slack.
Ole isn't another Lobanovskyi but would another manager do much better with what he's had available this season? Look how many players Pep and Klopp have cycled out of their squads since they started at City and Liverpool. Cos this club has chosen to give long deals to deadwood Ole hasn't been able to do the same. He has had to slowly but surely bring new players in, and cos of injuries that's left us relying on players like Pereira for most of these season. Now if Pep felt he couldn't do it with players like Jovetic and Kolarov, please don't try to convince me he could've done it with Lingard and Jones.
The real issue is that our squad has been put together badly and, since I don't blame Ole for that, I remain willing to stick with him. Stastically, there's an established relationship between spending and success. Usually because high spending leads to good recruitment. United over the past seven years are actually an exception to that rule, showing how badly the club has been run. However, my point is, generally speaking managers aren't that important.
Is Valverde one of the best managers in the world? No, but the Barcelona squad he had was so good that he would have had to be really, really rubbish not to win titles. That's not the case with Ole. The squad is lopsided, the quality isn't great, and he is probably performing around par. Now, you can speculate that a really good manager could get us playing above par. I'm not convinced though and, as terrible as we are to watch, nothing assures me that we'd do so much better with someone else that I'm willing to kick a legend to the curb. Not yet anyway.
Seeing some improvement in our buildup play, pressing as a unit, actually seeing movement from our players. We're still a shambles, one win doesn't chamge anything.
I hardly doubts Poch speech before the CL final was Alright lads, this isn't important. Trophies are for ego's.
Honestly I don't think norwegian league titles puts you up there with the elite managers in the world. Maybe we should hire the guy who's won 5 norwegian league titles?
Ole hasn't lost the dressing room, but we have our worst point tally in 30 years. If Ole had been succesfull here so far 80% wouldn't have voted for him to be sacked.
They must be wrong then. Because if Ferguson took over after 13 games, here it is:
https://www.worldfootball.net/schedule/eng-premier-league-1986-1987-spieltag/13/
We are 19th there. The round before, we were still 19th, and the round after, we were 20th. Either way, it was not 21st.
Okay
Understanding the football played by that Norwegian team is relevant though. And how he switched from winning the league with a possession oriented team for a team that never won it, to a more direct football when he was losing key players due to budget, that's the kind of stuff we would focus on. And also, their performance in Europe against better teams.
It's fine if you do not want to see the tactical work he is doing but let's not pretend it's not there at all.
Yeah anyone who watched the City game in the cup (can't remember the first or second leg) can see how even under pressure by City, we decided to play from the back no matter what. Brandon gets the ball, passes to Matic who hold the pressure of the pressing and then passes back to Shaw who temporizes and then passes it to Fred. Fred then faint and eliminates Silva and goes on a run for an attack.
Under the pressing that City put, most teams would try to clear the ball. But it seems Ole has decided that we have to try to get it out properly from the back no matter what, under all circumstances. This is the kind of things we are working on, and we can only admit that it's the right way of playing proper football.
I'm fine with Ole having done relatively well in the Norwegian league, It just does not in my opinion give him this reputation of having a amazing trophy haul and being a winner while calling Poch a loser. When Mourinho was surely getting sacked there was absolutely zero members in here who wanted Ole to be permanent Man Utd manager. He got the job because of his very good 15 game start and since PSG our form has been abysmal. Overall his time in the PL is limited, but his overall record is terrible.
Yeah but the dressing room fights for him, and we are going through this freak injury list, and we have had games where it was so weird to concede while the overall team is setup to not concede a lot of shots, but one shot = one goal.
Anyway my point is that the ideas are clear on the pitch, and we are adapting to the injuries now. Furthermore, that freak state of allowing one short = one goal cannot stand forever, I am sure that's going away. Then we just need to focus on scoring, and we will see how we perform without Rashford now.
It's a result business so I don't deny that, but so far, I think we are for the first time doing the things right and getting it done properly. This team can get higher to the top, and it might just be a matter of a couple of signings now to have a very effective 11, managing the injuries, etc...
Those 15 games were very important though. They show what we can do if we don't care about culture. But since we now do, we've taken some painful decisions and that's what happened...
I’m firmly Ole out. Honeymoon and Paris was great, but I thought the appointment was rushed, and nothing I’ve seen since has given me any doubt that he is absolutely out of his depth, and his desperation is now hurting the club.
Sorry to say this, but the original question is a bit pointless to me. I realise that you’re trying to bridge the divide between the two camps here, and I applaud the mindset behind it. People should listen and discuss matters intelligently and with an open mind, but how do you discuss with people who come at a question with such a strong, preexisting bias? Assuming it’s not just opposition fans winding us all up, or professional keyboard warriors on Woodward’s payroll, it feels like a conversation with religious people about whether or not God is real or not. Coming in here honestly feels like Ole has a church or cult following, who will do any kind of mental gymnastics to keep the faith going. How can you engage with people like that? And more importantly, why bother? If the thought of Ole being Fergies true heir is so firmly embedded in your brain that numbers and logic no longer applies, we come here for very different reasons.
People are so keen to use the word fraud these days, but this is maybe one of the few times it actually applies in my opinion. Nepotism got him this job, and Woodward’s personal calculations are likely keeping him in it. The guy can’t speak without sounding like a desperate cliche. People say we’re too tough on Ole, and don’t give him enough respect? Why would I respect someone like that? Because he used to play for us, and really wants to be here?
Name a single thing someone like Pochettino wouldn’t be infinitely more qualified to do here, even if has never won a trophy. Except of course being Ole Solskjær, who scored our most famous goal and who was Fergies adopted son. Being himself is something he is actually uniquely qualified to do.
Sorry to say this, but the original question is a bit pointless to me. I realise that you’re trying to bridge the divide between the two camps here, and I applaud the mindset behind it. People should listen and discuss matters intelligently and with an open mind, but how do you discuss with people who come at a question with such a strong, preexisting bias? Assuming it’s not just opposition fans winding us all up, or professional keyboard warriors on Woodward’s payroll, it feels like a conversation with religious people about whether or not God is real or not. Coming in here honestly feels like Ole has a church or cult following, who will do any kind of mental gymnastics to keep the faith going. How can you engage with people like that? And more importantly, why bother? If the thought of Ole being Fergies true heir is so firmly embedded in your brain that numbers and logic no longer applies, we come here for very different reasons.
People are so keen to use the word fraud these days, but this is maybe one of the few times it actually applies in my opinion. Nepotism got him this job, and Woodward’s personal calculations are likely keeping him in it. The guy can’t speak without sounding like a desperate cliche. People say we’re too tough on Ole, and don’t give him enough respect? Why would I respect someone like that? Because he used to play for us, and really wants to be here?
Name a single thing someone like Pochettino wouldn’t be infinitely more qualified to do here, even if has never won a trophy. Except of course being Ole Solskjær, who scored our most famous goal and who was Fergies adopted son. Being himself is something he is actually uniquely qualified to do.
I'll just reply on one thing. Pochettino has not been very good for a while to adapt his teams to the injuries. He always tried to use a position for a position substitution when compensating for injuries, so in a situation like ours, where you have Pogba, Scott and Rashford out, God only knows what he would have done. Very recently, in the 1.5 season, Pochettino has tried to finally adapt to the injuries by adapting team shapes, but it had mitigating outcome.
I get the cult feeling, I feel the same with the Ole out side, and only the results are going to "unite" us I think. But I firmly believe Ole is actually quite good with what he's trying to create and that will deliver. That being said, it's just football and let's see how it goes.
So you think we will get anywhere with this type of football? Low possession, counter-attacking, few chances and reliant on being efficient in both ends of the pitch... A complete opposite of how the best performing teams in Europe are playing.
It is not a question about if OGS is the right man or not. It is about what type of football is effective today over 38 games against a number of teams willing to park the bus against us. And with some other teams being so much better than us, that having a pragmatic approach will not give us the best chance to win. Sure, one can have games like yesterday, or in Paris or against Spurs where we are being much more efficient/lucky in key situations, but this is in no way a sustainable approach.
The one thing he could do to make me "Ole In" would be if he fired Andreas Pereira into the sun. Never to be seen from again. Not on the bench, not in the squad, not in the Reserves, not in the pics at the training ground.
Just Keyser Soze-style, poof and he's gone disappearance.
If Ole does that then I'd advocate for him getting the job for life.
Just Keyser Soze-style, poof and he's gone disappearance.
If Ole does that then I'd advocate for him getting the job for life.
I think that has more to do with the exceptional limitations imposed on him at Spurs in terms of recruitment, and perhaps that he is a bit too inflexible in how his team plays. That being said, I don’t think he is particularly good at in game management, and if he got the job, I would worry that his player management is too emotional to push us to a big title. He is by no means a perfect fix.
The thing is, all of that he is still better than anything Ole could offer in my opinion. I’m not sure I see how Ole has managed well in the face of injuries exactly. Not to mention that he appears to have pushed three of our most important players into long term injuries, though I’ll allow it’s difficult to know this for certain given the murky nature of where that responsibility really lies.
Yes, for the first time in a while since LVG, we are actually trying to build from the back the passes. Watch us try to not play long at all cost and instead trying to move the ball, even under pressure, we are trying very hard to build from the back so that is fine.
And unlike LVG, we don't spend time wasting the ball, so for me, this is even better. I trust that football, but let's see how it goes.
We end up in the same trap every time. Same as we did when we tried to play out of the back under Jose: The opposition lets our fullbacks run forward with the ball, blocks the passing lane from behind and centrally, with pressure from the front and closed off with the sideline... Same problem for 2+ years. Do not see any progress here, and when we are able to actually manage to transition the ball through the oppositions first line of pressing this is through high risk direct passes... If we had players with more consistent passing ability and technique this could, in theory, have been a sustainable approach, but we do not, and when it does not work we allow counter attacks against us.
He came in quite unexperienced at this level, mind. I think Ole is learning. Maybe he´s not a top manager yet, but he could grow into one. I´m not talking 2 years time, but quite soon. The backside of employing a Mourinho type of manager, is always that he could be tempted by a new challenge. Like Pogba. Ole would stay.
He retired long time ago, you cannot expect that from him.
I agree. And should he fail in that target, in such a weak PL season, he should be gotten to feck. Well and truly sacked off.
After the result yesterday I’d be inclined to agree that CL football is achievable and if we can’t string a consistent run together to at least challenge between now and the end of the season (and we have a fully fit squad) it’s on the management.
He's made the right calls he'd have sold pogba if he had a buyer. Fred has come good, mctominay too, de gea was a no brainer, Maguire also, awb, all good, Greenwood, Williams, rashford all thriving. Bruno could be our Cantona and get us going.
Poch not an elite manager. He's won nothing. All he's done is slightly improve a couple of teams and get to one lucky CL final where his team flopped.
I like Poch but he's reached mythological status on here. He would fail here.
First of all I am Ole in, I do not change my mind with using one player over another one, it is the manager role to choose what he wants regarding playing tactics or squad selection. I will wait till the end of the season, if we would not get top 5 or EL championship, I would change my mind about him. In my opinion, he did well in several aspects ,notably, young players growing procedure. I am also quite happy with the quality of players we bought during his area. We need to give time to him to complete his puzzles, however, I feel getting top 5 should be certainly possible even with current rather tiny squad. It is not only about us and our quality other rivals for top 5 except Liverpol and Leicester were not that good this season at all. Therefore with a bit of consitancy we should be able to get top 5.
I do support the appointment of Ole up to a point. He has a lot of good intentions and done a lot of things correctly that I believe some people may take for granted. I think we can afford to let him work with this squad going forward. I believe top 4 isn't a bold requirement this season for keeping Ole, the same way winning the EL or another trophy doesn't mean he'll have guaranteed himself 3 more years of management here. Improvement isn't always linear. I'll also take Woodward's actions into consideration because that is deeply relevant to the point of Ole's appointment. To change my mind about Ole, a lot of things can happen but I wont change my mind based on results until I feel we are underperforming with a good squad, even if it's him that built that squad, that will be the time to part ways. I think Ole can improve with the team, but if he doesn't it I'm not that bothered because he is building a young team so any manager worth his salt should be able to slot in at that point and improve us. But we aren't there yet. If I find myself turning on Ole before that point, its Ed Woodward who'll carry that responsibility. I don't think Ole is a top manager, but that doesn't mean it is impossible to make use of his qualities, it just means more team effort is needed to make it work. Everyone has to work together now with no excuses, and I like that specific part of this arrangement.
Overall though, 15 clean sheets in 40 games including just 6 in 26 in the league tells another story. Defence is still shaky but credit where due, in the last month we have been better so maybe I am a little harsh, but the facts still remain, we need to do better.
How long would that improvement have to remain steady or better for you to change your mind?
Nothing.
I voted out,but I can't deny that there are things that Ole has not excelled at.Tfese are the things he has improved.
(1)The clubs direction:For the first time since Sir's retirement,we seem to have profile of players we want,unlike the scatter gun approach we had before that resulted in players with different styles and profiles.
(2) COMMITMENT:The results are not great, but I can not deny that the players are giving their all.
(3) IMPROVED PLAYERS: Players like Rashy,McT,Fred,Greenwood, Williams have improved .
To change my vote,ole has to improve on these.
(1) Breaking teams down .
(2) Slow build up.
(3) In-game management.
(4) Injury management .
Most of the problems I listed are tactical, ole should get a capable assistant and delegate these responsibilities to him and focus on what he's good at.
However, if these problems persist and we make top 4(5),I will still vote out,because it will be the case of different season same problem.
(1)The clubs direction:For the first time since Sir's retirement,we seem to have profile of players we want,unlike the scatter gun approach we had before that resulted in players with different styles and profiles.
(2) COMMITMENT:The results are not great, but I can not deny that the players are giving their all.
(3) IMPROVED PLAYERS: Players like Rashy,McT,Fred,Greenwood, Williams have improved .
To change my vote,ole has to improve on these.
(1) Breaking teams down .
(2) Slow build up.
(3) In-game management.
(4) Injury management .
Most of the problems I listed are tactical, ole should get a capable assistant and delegate these responsibilities to him and focus on what he's good at.
However, if these problems persist and we make top 4(5),I will still vote out,because it will be the case of different season same problem.
I don't think Poch is up there with the very best yet. But there is a reason why Poch is courted and linked Man City and Man Utd. Ie big jobs. If Solskjær was sacked now or by the end of the season, I doubt any biggish club would ever offer him a job again. I don't seee any PL club being after him either.
Poch took Southampon to their highest point tally in since the inception of the PL in his first season.
He's taken spurs to their highest league place finish and highest point tally since the inception of the PL. He's taken spurs the furthest they have even been in the CL.
He's done this with 15 mil netspend pr season while being hamstrung by Spurs spending most of their money on a new stadium.
He has had one bad season which was this season.
Ole got relegated with Cardiff and then nearly got them relegated from the championship as well.
We are on course to have our worst point tally in the PL ever with Ole at the helm.
So I gues Ole is this elite manager because he won 2 norwegian league titles which means pretty much feck all at the highest level. Is the record holder of norwegian league titiles a elite manager?
Do you honestly believe that the best manager in the world won’t succeed here? Other than oil clubs no one supports their manager more. There is no pressure of a sack even if you break negative records dating back 30 years. You get time and unparalleled backing. Are you exaggerating to defend Ole or do you actually believe that.
Fergie the best manager in the world did succeed here. Actually arguablly our most succesfull period in our history came under the glazers under Fergie.
You do understand the amount of time he was given to implement his changes ?
Yeah already being established as the best manager of all time, if you mean by the time the Glazers took over.
Do you honestly believe the circumstances of the club are similar. The current United is the heaviest spender in world football.
In his decade of management has Ole ever shown he can reach Fergies level?