What would make you change your opinion on Ole

[Gehrman]

Yeah let's invoke Saf and Klopp everytime we debate Ole. By that logic Ole should never have been in the job because Moyes should have 4-6 years, Lvg should have 4-6 and Mourinho should have had 4-6.

Liverpool should never have sacked Dalglish(their Ole) to be replaced to rodgers, who took them a slip away from winning the league for the first time in 30 years. Rodgers should never have been sacked and replaced by Klopp who has now won the CL with them and are breaking all records in the league.

Let's not like all other big clubs hold managers do a high standard, but simply give them all time, regardless money spent and performances on the pitch, because you know it took Saf 6 years to build his title winning team.

 

[crossy1686]

Do you honestly believe that the best manager in the world won’t succeed here? Other than oil clubs no one supports their manager more. There is no pressure of a sack even if you break negative records dating back 30 years. You get time and unparalleled backing. Are you exaggerating to defend Ole or do you actually believe that.

I don't believe we have the current infrastructure to allow the best managers in the world to succeed at our club. City prepared for 2 years to get staff and procedures in place to give Pep the right environment for success, Liverpool were also implementing new guidelines under the new ownership to allow Klopp to succeed.

Our approach of "here's the keys, do what you want, just don't crash it" means whoever we have in charge has complete autonomy and ends up with a mismatched, disjoined squad every time we swap managers. It doesn't really matter how good you are a tactician if you've got the likes of Fellani and Zlatan in your team because the previous manager liked a long ball, you've got to play long ball to get something out of the current squad.

If we had a DOF then we'd be appointing managers based on a philosophy of how we want to play so they'd all have a similar style of play, not looking for flavour of the month managers and hoping they have all the answers.

 

[Gehrman]

I don't believe we have the current infrastructure to allow the best managers in the world to succeed at our club. City prepared for 2 years to get staff and procedures in place to give Pep the right environment for success, Liverpool were also implementing new guidelines under the new ownership to allow Klopp to succeed.

Our approach of "here's the keys, do what you want, just don't crash it" means whoever we have in charge has complete autonomy and ends up with a mismatched, disjoined squad every time we swap managers. It doesn't really matter how good you are a tactician if you've got the likes of Fellani and Zlatan in your team because the previous manager liked a long ball, you've got to play long ball to get something out of the current squad.

If we had a DOF then we'd be appointing managers based on a philosophy of how we want to play so they'd all have a similar style of play, not looking for flavour of the month managers and hoping they have all the answers.

Nobody was lauding Liverpools DOF or structure until Klopp arrvived and started succeeding. I think Liverpools succes atm is all down the the fact that Klopp is the best manager in the world.

 

[crossy1686]

Nobody was lauding Liverpools DOF or structure until Klopp arrvived and started succeeding. I think Liverpools succes atm is all down the the fact that Klopp is the best manager in the world.

They 'succeeded' under Rodgers as well and almost won a league title. The new management that took over run successful sports clubs in America as well and know what they're doing. Klopp is a great manager but he would have had a much more difficult time of it under the old regime.

 

[Gehrman]

They 'succeeded' under Rodgers as well and almost won a league title. The new management that took over run successful sports clubs in America as well and know what they're doing. Klopp is a great manager but he would have had a much more difficult time of it under the old regime.

Rodgers also slumped immediately afterwards when he lost Suarez, Sterling and Gerrard.

Don't you think Klopp would have been a succes here if he was hired straight after Ferguson? Or even if he in alternative universe was hired now?

 

[Gehrman]

They 'succeeded' under Rodgers as well and almost won a league title. The new management that took over run successful sports clubs in America as well and know what they're doing. Klopp is a great manager but he would have had a much more difficult time of it under the old regime.

I'm not defending the Glazers, I think they are poor owners, but we won mulitple league titles and a CL and 2 CL runners up under the Glazers when Fergie was here. We've spent shitloads of money on transfers and wages since SAF without succes and that's as much on the managers as it is on Woodie.

 

[Gambit]

I wish everyone would shut up. I really do. All this Ole in, Ole out bullshit is doing my head in. What is it with everyone wanting to pin their flag to a side then argue it and go out of the way to twist everything to prove they're correct. He's not as bad as some are making out nor is he great. How about we just support him and the team for a bit and see where we are at the end of the season?

 

[MrBest]

How long would that improvement have to remain steady or better for you to change your mind?

Bruge maybe has changed your mind? Absolutely shocking defending.

 

[Foxbatt]

If he can coach the side and never pick a midfield of Lingard, Mata and Pereira.

 

[The Boy]

I wish everyone would shut up. I really do. All this Ole in, Ole out bullshit is doing my head in. What is it with everyone wanting to pin their flag to a side then argue it and go out of the way to twist everything to prove they're correct. He's not as bad as some are making out nor is he great. How about we just support him and the team for a bit and see where we are at the end of the season?

One of the more sensible posts I’ve seen on Ole for a while!

Bruge maybe has changed your mind? Absolutely shocking defending.

I don’t get your point, I’m not a United fan so I don’t have the same emotional investment in this that everyone else does and Ole on or Ole out doesn’t bother me, if I were Woodward I would would be pleased with the change in the squad, but probably be thinking about replacing at the end of the season.

 

[sammsky1]

Even if Ole demonstrates progress with back to back wins vs Chelsea (top team) and Watford (hard to break down), even if he dramatically improves players like Fred, McTominay, Wan Bissaka, Matic, Rashford, and successfully integrates kids like Williams and Greenwood, while getting rid of 8 deadwood players and plays entire season without Pogba or full set of strikers, I still wont change my mind and I want Ole Out!

Ole OUT OUT OUT!

Did I say it right?

 

[E-mal]

Nothing, when you see us play it is obvious we are poorly coached.
Weather he gets top 4 or not, he has to go in my opinion.

 

[sammsky1]

Nothing, when you see us play it is obvious we are poorly coached.
Weather he gets top 4 or not, he has to go in my opinion.

You can see this because you are some kind of coaching observation guru? Wish I had your level of sophistication!

PS: Whether not weather. Guess not so sophisticated after all.

 

[RedIan]

One thing i will say about ole is his signings are better than the last 3 managers. Ok James is struggling a little atm but he still trying hard and contributes and in his defence hes been way over played. Harry, WBS and Bruno all QUALITY signings.

 

[ReddBalls]

One thing i will say about ole is his signings are better than the last 3 managers. Ok James is struggling a little atm but he still trying hard and contributes and in his defence hes been way over played. Harry, WBS and Bruno all QUALITY signings.

James was not really struggling today, though?

 

[E-mal]

You can see this because you are some kind of coaching observation guru? Wish I had your level of sophistication!

PS: Whether not weather. Guess not so sophisticated after all.

Auto correct Mr.
It's a football forum man, go make yourself useful with something more profitable.

 

[passing-wind]

You can see this because you are some kind of coaching observation guru? Wish I had your level of sophistication!

PS: Whether not weather. Guess not so sophisticated after all.

It doesn't take a genius to make a basic assessment regarding the identity of a team to interpret if a side is poorly coached or not. When Leipzig played Spurs the other day despite them winning the fixture on the balance of play the football they played spoke volumes about the respective managers in charge between Naglesmann / Jose as to who imposed their philosophy. While Solskjaer absolutely deserves to keep his job if we get top four, we are definitely a side that lacks depth in our phases of play due to coaching. We can see it on the broadcast and I'd imagine it would be amplified far worse live because you can map the players movement while they are "idle" from the ball possessor.

 

[The Boy]

Ole's United have been hugely frustrating at times this season, in different games I can see the arguments for Ole in and Ole out. But post Fernandes the team certainly seem to have woken up.

Watching you during January was at times horrendous, the Burnley game for example was just painful and fitted the no plan, no tactics argument and I completely get the worry about his win rate.

But in your 6 games since then (and yes I know this includes Tranmere, but it also includes City and Chelsea) you've scored 13 and only conceded 1 which was that ridiculous route one goal from Brugge. You've won 4 and drawn 2).Some will argue VAR has been a bit of a saviour, but though I think it was completely wrong with the Maguire red card decision, the goals it ruled out against Chelsea and Watford were, in my mind, all correct decisions.

The defence looks better, Martial has scored 4 in 6, Bruno has been a catalyst for many players around him, I am amazed by how quickly he's not only just settled in but affected the whole team. James has perked up again which is good to see, you're actually beginning to play some nice football and teams are finding it difficult to contain you.

So anyone changed their mind yet or is this a blip and do you expect to see some of the dross served up earlier in the season as you take on teams like Everton, Sheffield United and the mighty Brighton!

 

[UDontMessWith24]

The players being consistently hungry, focused and motivated on a reasonably consistent basis. Everything else will fall into place imo as despite my opinion that he’s not the right manager, I don’t think tactically inept at all.

 

[lysglimt]

Ole hasn't lost the dressing room, but we have our worst point tally in 30 years. If Ole had been succesfull here so far 80% wouldn't have voted for him to be sacked.

That doesn't mean that the 80% are right. The number of People who wanted Ferguson sacked in the 89/90 season was probably higher - and I have to admit I was one of them.

 

[Brightonian]

I really love watching us again. When that changes, I might reconsider.

 

[Thepinhead]

I really love watching us again. When that changes, I might reconsider.

Ye even when we lose I almost always feel like it was an entertaining match. In the LVG and Mourinho days you just had this feeling that if we went behind with a goal or two there was no way we would come back from that. We could only hope for a draw.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Even if Ole demonstrates progress with back to back wins vs Chelsea (top team) and Watford (hard to break down), even if he dramatically improves players like Fred, McTominay, Wan Bissaka, Matic, Rashford, and successfully integrates kids like Williams and Greenwood, while getting rid of 8 deadwood players and plays entire season without Pogba or full set of strikers, I still wont change my mind and I want Ole Out!

Ole OUT OUT OUT!

Did I say it right?

Not if you're older than 12 you didn't.

What a strange strange little post. Even claiming Watford away from home are "hard to break down" despite them having the 4th shittest away defensive record in the league.

 

[sammsky1]

Not if you're older than 12 you didn't.

What a strange strange little post. Even claiming Watford away from home are "hard to break down" despite them having the 4th shittest away defensive record in the league.

I tell you what is strange: You can’t seem to make any point without first resorting to a personal insult to somebody you don’t know at all.

Very very strange.

 

[EngimaMK]

Ole's United have been hugely frustrating at times this season, in different games I can see the arguments for Ole in and Ole out. But post Fernandes the team certainly seem to have woken up.

Watching you during January was at times horrendous, the Burnley game for example was just painful and fitted the no plan, no tactics argument and I completely get the worry about his win rate.

But in your 6 games since then (and yes I know this includes Tranmere, but it also includes City and Chelsea) you've scored 13 and only conceded 1 which was that ridiculous route one goal from Brugge. You've won 4 and drawn 2).Some will argue VAR has been a bit of a saviour, but though I think it was completely wrong with the Maguire red card decision, the goals it ruled out against Chelsea and Watford were, in my mind, all correct decisions.

The defence looks better, Martial has scored 4 in 6, Bruno has been a catalyst for many players around him, I am amazed by how quickly he's not only just settled in but affected the whole team. James has perked up again which is good to see, you're actually beginning to play some nice football and teams are finding it difficult to contain you.

So anyone changed their mind yet or is this a blip and do you expect to see some of the dross served up earlier in the season as you take on teams like Everton, Sheffield United and the mighty Brighton!

A Brighton fan showing our own supporters how to support, or at least be balanced, rather than spoilt little twerps.

Kudos

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

See if we can build some momentum now after 2 wins and a good chance to knock Brugge out. Can't afford a big slip up though.

 

[izec]

Show me some improvement on defending set pieces and some breaking down defensive units and i would believe he is working and implementing some coaching into it. I think these two are key for us to start to dominate for longer periods

For now, it is a pretty slow process.

 

[Aarron Swift]

I think along with a lot of other United fans, i feel I'm always torn with Ole on account of wanting him to succeed because hes a club legend despite my head saying POch in the summer is the best option. There have been some real positives to Ole's reign in terms of the squad that i feel gets overlooked a lot but are things that will ultimately help the next manager that comes in.


Initiating a much needed Squad Overhaul - Over the past decade (,pre OGS arrival) United have developed a frankenstein-like squad with players from 4 different managers (SAF, Moyes, LVG & Jose) all with differing styles and player profiles. This had combined to create a team just didn't seem to function well or know what type of side it wanted to be. In Ole's 3 Transfer Windows the club has seen the following 1st team Players leave:

- Fellaini
- Herrera
- Valencia
- Smalling (Loan)
- Sanchez (Loan)
- Darmian
- Lukaku
- Rojo (Loan)
- Young

- Pogba + Matic very likely to leave in Summer, Mata, Lingard, Pereira, Jones could also leave, i doubt all of those in 1 window however.

We can debate all day as to whether it was right time to sell Lukaku, if Herrera should have been retained and whether we should try to keep hold of Pogba in the summer but they are all players that needed to leave United...and even after all those departures, there are still a good number of players that need to be replaced. What we have done with the Transfers out combined with the players that how come in permanently (AWB, Maguire, James, Bruno). We are started to have a younger, more compatible squad both style and profile wise. hopefully it ends up with United wage bill dropping to better reflect quality of squad.

Make no mistake, this was, still is and will be a huge undertaking that may still take another 4 windows, but the groundwork has started. It was always going to be a painful process given the size of the squad mess. A negative i would still aim at Ole is that despite all these changes, United really should have produced better points/performances this season, maybe 10-15pts given silly pts dropped, and it doesn't mean tactics have to have been what they are.

What it has done and why i feel its a real positive of Oles reign, regardless of how the rest goes, is that it has taken a lot of that work away from a potential new manager, those painful results that come with a squad overhaul of this magnitude are on Ole, a new man with no history with the club could have come in Dec 2018 produced the similar in regards to Ins/Outs and Results and wed have written them off as a flop.

In theory a new manager could come in over the summer, Poch for example. United are likely to make 3/4 additional signings, selling 2/3 more deadwood and finally ridding themselves of the Pogba circus just in time for a far more positive season next season and Ole's 18 months and 3 windows could be vital in laying the new mans foundations. not simply a case of 'Ole bad manager' 'new manager better', although we all have our opinions there.


- Final disclaimer: I know in modern day football, Transfers, recruitment, scouting etc. are all a multiple person operations and the manager probably has the least say in the team behind this but when that creates a transition and down turn in quality for a time and therefore results, its the manager that takes the brunt of the stick for this which Ole has.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Even if Ole demonstrates progress with back to back wins vs Chelsea (top team) and Watford (hard to break down), even if he dramatically improves players like Fred, McTominay, Wan Bissaka, Matic, Rashford, and successfully integrates kids like Williams and Greenwood, while getting rid of 8 deadwood players and plays entire season without Pogba or full set of strikers, I still wont change my mind and I want Ole Out!

Ole OUT OUT OUT!

Did I say it right?

I agree with this.

Ole has done a good job considering he's had no Pogba or a full set of strikers.

He's dramatically improved various players, integrated some academy players successfully. Let him get rid of more deadwood in the Summer and back him.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I think along with a lot of other United fans, i feel I'm always torn with Ole on account of wanting him to succeed because hes a club legend despite my head saying POch in the summer is the best option. There have been some real positives to Ole's reign in terms of the squad that i feel gets overlooked a lot but are things that will ultimately help the next manager that comes in.


Initiating a much needed Squad Overhaul - Over the past decade (,pre OGS arrival) United have developed a frankenstein-like squad with players from 4 different managers (SAF, Moyes, LVG & Jose) all with differing styles and player profiles. This had combined to create a team just didn't seem to function well or know what type of side it wanted to be. In Ole's 3 Transfer Windows the club has seen the following 1st team Players leave:

- Fellaini
- Herrera
- Valencia
- Smalling (Loan)
- Sanchez (Loan)
- Darmian
- Lukaku
- Rojo (Loan)
- Young

- Pogba + Matic very likely to leave in Summer, Mata, Lingard, Pereira, Jones could also leave, i doubt all of those in 1 window however.

We can debate all day as to whether it was right time to sell Lukaku, if Herrera should have been retained and whether we should try to keep hold of Pogba in the summer but they are all players that needed to leave United...and even after all those departures, there are still a good number of players that need to be replaced. What we have done with the Transfers out combined with the players that how come in permanently (AWB, Maguire, James, Bruno). We are started to have a younger, more compatible squad both style and profile wise. hopefully it ends up with United wage bill dropping to better reflect quality of squad.

Make no mistake, this was, still is and will be a huge undertaking that may still take another 4 windows, but the groundwork has started. It was always going to be a painful process given the size of the squad mess. A negative i would still aim at Ole is that despite all these changes, United really should have produced better points/performances this season, maybe 10-15pts given silly pts dropped, and it doesn't mean tactics have to have been what they are.

What it has done and why i feel its a real positive of Oles reign, regardless of how the rest goes, is that it has taken a lot of that work away from a potential new manager, those painful results that come with a squad overhaul of this magnitude are on Ole, a new man with no history with the club could have come in Dec 2018 produced the similar in regards to Ins/Outs and Results and wed have written them off as a flop.

In theory a new manager could come in over the summer, Poch for example. United are likely to make 3/4 additional signings, selling 2/3 more deadwood and finally ridding themselves of the Pogba circus just in time for a far more positive season next season and Ole's 18 months and 3 windows could be vital in laying the new mans foundations. not simply a case of 'Ole bad manager' 'new manager better', although we all have our opinions there.


- Final disclaimer: I know in modern day football, Transfers, recruitment, scouting etc. are all a multiple person operations and the manager probably has the least say in the team behind this but when that creates a transition and down turn in quality for a time and therefore results, its the manager that takes the brunt of the stick for this which Ole has.

Agree with the bolded red bit

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I tell you what is strange: You can’t seem to make any point without first resorting to a personal insult to somebody you don’t know at all.

Very very strange.

If you don't see how childish your post was Sam, nothing I can say will help you.

You can make a point without having to act like a 12 year old with bolded Ole OUT OUT OUT! and ridiculous claims like "Watford are hard to break down" when, well, they aren't as proven by them having the fourth worst away defence in the league.

Concentrate instead on the 2 wins and 1 draw since Ole got himself a proper number 10 in the door.

 

[Tom Cato]

James was not really struggling today, though?

James is close behind Bruno for MoTM against Watford. One of his best games all season

 

[Aarron Swift]

Agree with the bolded red bit

haha Glad you agree

 

[sammsky1]

If you don't see how childish your post was Sam, nothing I can say will help you.

You can make a point without having to act like a 12 year old with bolded Ole OUT OUT OUT! and ridiculous claims like "Watford are hard to break down" when, well, they aren't as proven by them having the fourth worst away defence in the league.

Concentrate instead on the 2 wins and 1 draw since Ole got himself a proper number 10 in the door.

And yet he still has to resort to personal insults. And not the first time either. And am sure won’t be the last time either.

No point engaging with someone who can’t debate a subject without resorting to pathetic personal jibes.

 

[TMDaines]

13-4-5 since beating Spurs. The next three league games feel massive for whether he will be in the job next season.

 

[AltiUn]

13-4-5 since beating Spurs. The next three league games feel massive for whether he will be in the job next season.

I think regardless of those results he'll be here next season, there's not even been a hint of discontent from the board about his future.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

I think the board have no clue what to do if Ole doesn't work. I don't exactly like it, but if Ole isn't the man be prepared for mediocrity for the foreseeable future regardless of whichever manager they bring in next.

 

[TMDaines]

I think regardless of those results he'll be here next season, there's not even been a hint of discontent from the board about his future.

Yeah, but LVG and Mou moved on quite suddenly. Whilst Poch is unemployed, I think Ole needs to continue to assure.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

Yeah, but LVG and Mou moved on quite suddenly. Whilst Poch is unemployed, I think Ole needs to continue to assure.

I don't think so. Mourinho firing was delayed and delayed for months. LvG was essentially gone after December - according to reports we'd agreed to bring in Mourinho by January.

 

[hobbers]

Even if Ole demonstrates progress with back to back wins vs Chelsea (top team) and Watford (hard to break down), even if he dramatically improves players like Fred, McTominay, Wan Bissaka, Matic, Rashford, and successfully integrates kids like Williams and Greenwood, while getting rid of 8 deadwood players and plays entire season without Pogba or full set of strikers, I still wont change my mind and I want Ole Out!

Ole OUT OUT OUT!

Did I say it right?

Well, firstly, back to back wins is not progress unless it's built upon. We've already had back to back wins have we not? I know it's been bad under Ole but not quite that bad. We had back to back wins against City and Spurs and it did feck all to our momentum or the quality of our football, because what happened afterwards? Vomit inducing displays against Everton and Watford. Unless we go on a consistent run, and that means several league wins on the bounce, it isn't progress.

Secondly he hasn't dramatically improved anyone. And it's absolute nonsense to suggest he has. AWB isn't a better player than he was at Palace last season. McTominay and Rashford would be exactly where they are now under any other manager, and actually you'd have thought Rashford would have improved his no.9 play under Ole but that's the one element of his game that hasn't improved at all. Matic and Fred have hardly set the world alight . Matic is on his way out this summer, and Fred looks as though he could maybe grow into a decent sort of Herrera-type option at the club.

Also dieing to know who the 8 deadwood players he got rid of are. Because Lukaku, Fellaini, Herrera, Young and Smalling, while obviously not the future of United for one reason or another, were all a million miles from being 'deadwood'. If you want deadwood you have to look at Sanchez, Rojo, Jones, Lingard and Pereira, all of whom are still contracted here. The only deadwood Ole has actually moved on is Valencia.