What would make you change your opinion on Ole

Bestietom

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I like Ole, but if he doesn't get us into Champions League this season by whichever way possible, he deserves to go. Scrimping and not replacing players, and relying on young players to carry us through a long season is NOT the united way, and every fan could see this. We need 3/4 world class players in the side at all times, as well as having a squad that has cover for each position on the field.
 

RedBanker

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Please read posts properly before replying, I clearly said that in the event Woodward and Judge fail to provide Ole with a squad on which we can fairly judge him the only thing that would make me turn against Ole would be a relegation battle.

As you're incapable of reading a couple of simple sentences properly I probably now need to point out that this means I wouldn't be willing to accept a relegation battle.
So a manager needs all his chosen players in the squad to prove his worth or even get some consistent good performances or results going? Or this is a special handicap for Solksjaer alone?
 

Jezpeza

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I see the argument on both sides.

Where I am is that obviously results aren’t good enough. I really hope he can get us somewhere in the EL and sneak into the top 4.

On the other hand, he is flushing the turd from the squad and recruitment is better. I want to see him get another good midfielder and a right winger as we still haven't got one. When we actually have a reasonable starting 11 i’ll be more ready to judge him.

Much has been said about style of play but I actually have a suspicion we've deliberately been playing to bypass the midfield as it has lacked quality. Maybe with Bruno in we will see a change after this break. Its also been good to see him get a tune out of Fred, who was afterall a 50 million pound player, and some good youngsters playing.

We've been infuriatingly inconsistent which you would expect of a younger team, but the players haven't downed tools on him so theres something there.

I think we stick with him and give him the chance to sign a couple more players and a pre season with a good squad and then if he still cant get the results replace him
 

RedBanker

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I think it might be healthier all round if you didn't just presume that the 30% still support him because he played here.
You are right because that 30 percent is mostly consisting of Opposition supporters, plain WUMs and Solskjaers relatives.
 

roonster09

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If he can achieve top 4 by playing attacking football, scoring many goals with good style of play then I wouldn't mind him for next season.

At this point I don't think he is capable of that, so don't think he will change my opinion.
 

Enigma_87

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I think it might be healthier all round if you didn't just presume that the 30% still support him because he played here.
So you think if it was Moyes doing this rebuilt, same results as Ole since the last 14 months, he will get 30% approval rate around here?

I honestly don't think he will be even close.
 

jackal&hyde

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But my point is if it wasn't Ole the player, can you imagine how the fan base would turn on to someone like say Moyes?

I call out a crap manager as soon as I see one. What he did as a player is irrelevant to me. Maradona was a fantastic player yet turd of a manager, why can't people just differentiate the two?
I don't remember there having been as much disrespect in terms on language against Moyes or Mourinho as i see now against Ole on social media and online in general. The last 18 months or so have become very toxic imo with Pogba and Ole as the targets for some rather despicable appellatives and accusations.

Regardless, i can see some significant improvements this season in key areas, like improvement in the young players and some under performing players of last years, the defense concedes a lot less chances per game from open play (but rubbish at set pieces) and the counter has been perfected really well, arguably the best team in the league here that has given us a good record against the big 6. The players brought in and the ones let go were also good decisions imo. More players were needed last summer but that is on the board. At least they got Bruno over the line now so that should help a lot for the remaining games.

A lot more work needs to be done, in breaking teams down, defend seat pieces, taking more control of games against the big 6. Some of them can be improved with coaching (time) but others only with new players brought in.

Given this, unless we completely collapse in the second part of the season, I do believe Ole should be given another year to see where we land.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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If he can achieve top 4 by playing attacking football, scoring many goals with good style of play then I wouldn't mind him for next season.

At this point I don't think he is capable of that, so don't think he will change my opinion.
I am with you there. I think if he could win a cup it would impress me more.
To actually win things is what I want and not top 4 as aim.
If we scrape top 4 due to beating Chelsea by the odd goal and then grinding out 1 more win than them it would not impress me enough.
Although if we get top 4 by starting playing very well that could make a difference.
 

Enigma_87

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I don't remember there having been as much disrespect in terms on language against Moyes or Mourinho as i see now against Ole on social media and online in general. The last 18 months or so have become very toxic imo with Pogba and Ole as the targets for some rather despicable appellatives and accusations.

Regardless, i can see some significant improvements this season in key areas, like improvement in the young players and some under performing players of last years, the defense concedes a lot less chances per game from open play (but rubbish at set pieces) and the counter has been perfected really well, arguably the best team in the league here that has given us a good record against the big 6. The players brought in and the ones let go were also good decisions imo. More players were needed last summer but that is on the board. At least they got Bruno over the line now so that should help a lot for the remaining games.

A lot more work needs to be done, in breaking teams down, defend seat pieces, taking more control of games against the big 6. Some of them can be improved with coaching (time) but others only with new players brought in.

Given this, unless we completely collapse in the second part of the season, I do believe Ole should be given another year to see where we land.
I think I disagree on this. Jose and Moyes were under immense pressure from the press(mostly Jose) and much more fans turned on them really fast. They both were called out names and we had a fecking plane for Moyes :lol:

I've never seen a manager given so much leeway at a top club, given the result he has been posting since a year.
 

NWRed

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You did say genuine relegation battle.

Willing to accept mid table mediocrity is not far from relegation battle, either way.
Nowhere did I say I was willing to accept being midtable, in the circumstances I specified it would be Woodward, Judge and the Glazers who were culpable, not Ole.
 

Bilbo

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You are right because that 30 percent is mostly consisting of Opposition supporters, plain WUMs and Solskjaers relatives.
Or (controversial opinion) maybe those people just think differently than you do.
 

sewey89

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Winning and being successful.

We played shit football under Mourinho, but people didn't particularly care as we were winning.
 

roonster09

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I am with you there. I think if he could win a cup it would impress me more.
To actually win things is what I want and not top 4 as aim.
If we scrape top 4 due to beating Chelsea by the odd goal and then grinding out 1 more win than them it would not impress me enough.
Although if we get top 4 by starting playing very well that could make a difference.
Yeah, playing attacking football scoring lot of goals is important part. With how other teams are playing, with bit of good form any team can achieve top 4. It's very poor race this season.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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At least we can agree on this. If we win all our games and Pool collapse and we take the title from then he deserves to stay forever ;).
Not sure he would get credit for the later part, but it would be so insane.

I think nuclear war before the season is over and half us are dead got lower odds.
 

RedBanker

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Or (controversial opinion) maybe those people just think differently than you do.
I know exactly what those people think and I am making good use of the ignore button so prudently provided on this forum.
 

Enigma_87

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Nowhere did I say I was willing to accept being midtable, in the circumstances I specified it would be Woodward, Judge and the Glazers who were culpable, not Ole.
Woodward, Judge and Glazers will most likely never change and we are stuck with them. They did give him in the neighborhood of 200m so far.

You are asking a lot of them to either deliver players like Sancho or get the "right" players in if it is up to them.
 

Toni Roncoroni

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I don't see anything changing my opinion of Ole. Maybe if he steps down and leave the club.

But as a manager he just isn't good enough. No incoming players or time will change that dramatically. We shouldn't be gambling on him and just move on from this mess.
 

El Zoido

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Again though, why would this need to be specific to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer? Any good manager who came would see that Sanchez was a busted flush and that Rojo, Young, Smalling (well, not as badly as Jones and co) were surplus to requirements. Any manager would have seen that Lukaku wanted out, but a stronger one might have insisted upon a replacement instead of going into the season understaffed.

Nothing Ole has done is different from what any other manager would have done, off the pitch.
Well the previous three managers did a terrible job in this regard. They all built dysfunctional squads, with ageing, past-it players, or players who just weren’t good enough. There didn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to anything. At least now Ole has identified the profile of player he wants, in terms of ability and on a mental/attitude level, and we’re building a unified squad of good players. I really like this team and squad, if they stay together long term I think we’ll see success. I just don’t think Ole will take us to that next level, but I’d hate to see another manager come in already and start tearing this squad up before we see the fruits of it.
 

Bilbo

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So you think if it was Moyes doing this rebuilt, same results as Ole since the last 14 months, he will get 30% approval rate around here?

I honestly don't think he will be even close.
I think, if you asked me what is dragging this forum down more than anything else, its the dozens and dozens of pages of boring discussion where this situation is being compared to a hundred other things. The situation that Ole walked into is not the same as any other situation, so why not just judge it on its own conditions. Who cares what approval rating Moyes would have gotten. It all just goes back to your belief that anyone that supports him is doing so because they are stupid enough to be swayed by him being a former player.

Maybe those people just think he is doing enough to warrant another summer to build this team.
 

nokillingmoths

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At this point he doesn't really deserve the time he needs to prove he is good enough for the job.
 

Joe297

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He thinned out the squad without getting in replacements first.
Do you not feel that maybe it was smart to thin out the squad for the long term benefit though. It's easy for the board to refuse to get players in when they can say sorry, you have Rojo, Smalling, Valencia, Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez, Darmian etc in. However now it's a lot more difficult for them to refuse the option of getting replacements in.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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Well the previous three managers did a terrible job in this regard. They all built dysfunctional squads, with ageing, past-it players, or players who just weren’t good enough. There didn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason to anything. At least now Ole has identified the profile of player he wants, in terms of ability and on a mental/attitude level, and we’re building a unified squad of good players. I really like this team and squad, if they stay together long term I think we’ll see success. I just don’t think Ole will take us to that next level, but I’d hate to see another manager come in already and start tearing this squad up before we see the fruits of it.

I agree but you haven't answered my question - why is Ole the only one to solve the problems caused by the previous managers? Where in his track record has he done this? Remember his rebuild at Cardiff? That panned out well, didn't it. Why is it only this special, unique manager who has the nous to clear out the squad and rebuild it? He's never done this once in his career.
 

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I don't think there's anything Ole could do that would change my mind on him. Even if he goes on a miraculous winning run until the end of the season. Most good results/ runs we've had have been followed by atrocious ones. He's a novice and never a United calibre manager. If you ranked every current PL manager, I'm pretty sure he'd be near the bottom.
 

jackal&hyde

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I think I disagree on this. Jose and Moyes were under immense pressure from the press(mostly Jose) and much more fans turned on them really fast. They both were called out names and we had a fecking plane for Moyes :lol:

I've never seen a manager given so much leeway at a top club, given the result he has been posting since a year.
I see your point and in general i agree that there are good arguments to sack Ole. I just think it's a question of where we thought the squad was at. I think Ole or anyone else had a massive job at hand with only a very small number of players being good enough (or want to play for the club) and even some of them are young and will be inconsistent. With 2 defenders brought in and a young forward from the championship i did not expect major and immediate improvement, especially when the creative brain of the team got injured. I wish we could have done what Real did and spend 300mil net but we can't do that apparently, so it's a slower process.

I simply don't rate the squad to be able to offer consistency, partly due to lack of quality and partly due to age. I can understand that if someone thinks that we do have a very good squad we should expect more. I wonder if this difference in rating the squad is the reason for the Ole "worst manager ever" and Ole needs more time and players.

At the very least the problem of creating chances against "smaller teams" has imo nothing to do with the manager but everything to do with the AMs at our disposal. If we'll have the same problems after we replace Lingard and Pereira with Pogba and Bruno i'l eat my words :lol:
 

Zlatattack

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Ole Out (ish...)

I say ..ish... because I really like the fella and wish him all the success in the world, but I just don't see it happening.

IMO if we make top 4, he can have another season, if we don't - get in Poch.
 

El Zoido

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I agree but you haven't answered my question - why is Ole the only one to solve the problems caused by the previous managers? Where in his track record has he done this? Remember his rebuild at Cardiff? That panned out well, didn't it. Why is it only this special, unique manager who has the nous to clear out the squad and rebuild it? He's never done this once in his career.
He was only at Cardiff 9 months, and two of those months were the summer break. They were a disaster club and almost beyond saving, I really don’t hold this against him.

I don’t think he’s the only man that can do this job, just that he’s doing enough good to be worth sticking with a bit longer. It’s a matter of perspective. Under both LVG and Mourinho I felt they were trashing the squad and the future, there was no hope. Under Ole I feel that we now have a very talented young team that’s only a couple of signings away from being really good.

As has been said, it’s a long term project and we’re moving in the right direction. Squad harmony is good (again, was never the situation the previous three managers). I honestly think we’d cause chaos by sacking him now, it would be a big mistake. Let’s just see how this plays out a little longer.
 

Shamana

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He was only at Cardiff 9 months, and two of those months were the summer break. They were a disaster club and almost beyond saving, I really don’t hold this against him.

I don’t think he’s the only man that can do this job, just that he’s doing enough good to be worth sticking with a bit longer. It’s a matter of perspective. Under both LVG and Mourinho I felt they were trashing the squad and the future, there was no hope. Under Ole I feel that we now have a very talented young team that’s only a couple of signings away from being really good.

As has been said, it’s a long term project and we’re moving in the right direction. Squad harmony is good (again, was never the situation the previous three managers). I honestly think we’d cause chaos by sacking him now, it would be a big mistake. Let’s just see how this plays out a little longer.
Cardiff improved rapidly after sacking Ole though.

LVG brought in some old players like Bastian, but otherwise he bought players like Depay, Martial, Sneiderlin, Rojo, Blind etc who were not by any means old. He promoted Rashford too. LVG just failed execute his vision on the pitch and I'm seeing the same with Ole to be honest.
 

Alabaster Codify7

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He was only at Cardiff 9 months, and two of those months were the summer break. They were a disaster club and almost beyond saving, I really don’t hold this against him.

I don’t think he’s the only man that can do this job, just that he’s doing enough good to be worth sticking with a bit longer. It’s a matter of perspective. Under both LVG and Mourinho I felt they were trashing the squad and the future, there was no hope. Under Ole I feel that we now have a very talented young team that’s only a couple of signings away from being really good.

As has been said, it’s a long term project and we’re moving in the right direction. Squad harmony is good (again, was never the situation the previous three managers). I honestly think we’d cause chaos by sacking him now, it would be a big mistake. Let’s just see how this plays out a little longer.
1) No we aren't though, we are moving further down the Premier League table - that is the wrong direction.

2) The interview with Fred recently suggests that all is not exactly harmonious as we first thought.
 

Shark

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I don’t think so, I’ve seen quite enough on and off the pitch to suggest he’s just not very good at anything at top level management and was brought in as a caretaker simply to attempt to raise moral, which he did. Never should have been given the job though, especially on the back of the end of last seasons results. l do feel for him a bit but we’re not a charity club and I hope we don’t make the same mistake again. A manager should seriously have to earn his stripes before being even considered a position at this club.
 

Jezpeza

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Cardiff improved rapidly after sacking Ole though.

LVG brought in some old players like Bastian, but otherwise he bought players like Depay, Martial, Sneiderlin, Rojo, Blind etc who were not by any means old. He promoted Rashford too. LVG just failed execute his vision on the pitch and I'm seeing the same with Ole to be honest.
LVG was a dinosaur who thought playing his system meant more than the players he had. Laughable that he wanted to play wing backs but sold them and didnt buy any and then filled the squad with about 42 central midfielders.

For me he is the most damaging post SAF manager, He is the man who bloated the squad with mediocre players in a mad trolley dash and sold all of our assets for peanuts. He got rid of hernandez, rafael, evans, michael keane, Zaha, Kagawa and Nani, players of note who would all of done equally well if not better to most of what he signed. All for less than a combined total of £40m. He also got rid of Fletcher and RVP, Evra etc etc.

To replace them? Blind (squad player), Schneiderlin (shite), Rojo, (crocked shite), Falcao, (crocked shite), darmian (shite), bastian (relic), Di Maria (flop), depay (flop). Think he basically spent about 250 mil on crap to fill out his subbuteo system. Its took us 5 years to get rid of it.

This is why i grimace when people go on about the big name managers with the big CV’s. Its like no one remebers 5 minutes ago.
 

Maticmaker

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Not sure right now much would change my mind about Ole himself, he knows what he wants and what the fans want, he's perhaps unsure of how to get it and so the only thing that would change my mind in terms of whether he stays or goes would be if the club failed to sign a decent DoF… soon! Ole desperately needs people other than Carrick and Phelan etc. to help him out. The current backroom staff are indeed supportive but just that, unlikely to offer anything alternative, in strategy or tactics, or even in challenging what Ole does.

The transfer situation is dire. Woodward may have lots of skills in financial management, but he's rank at transfers, all the huffing and puffing about both Maguire and now Fernandez and we've finished up paying the same or more than what was originally asked for both players and ending up waiting months for Maguire and almost twelve months for Bruno. Even if we can identify the right players needed, Ed will probably 'balls it up' unless a DoF takes a hand.

We already have a 'hotchpotch' (no pun intended) of players, brought in by different managers at different times for different reasons, we don't need to stir the mix again, let Ole clean out the stables and lay fresh straw with the help of a DoF. If then he is found wanting and not making any improvement as a manager, then he goes the same way as our redundant playing staff.
 

sunama

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I would love to change my mind on Ole.
If Ole can take us to the promised land, then there is nothing better than this.
Club (player) legend now a managerial legend, to manage us for the next 20 years and winning heaps of trophies. This is the ideal scenario and I honestly thought after his first 3 months in charge that that is what we were getting. It took 6 years for us to find this guy, but we found him. Unfortunately, after the PSG match, he turned to complete shit.

This'll change my mind:
Ole going unbeaten for the rest of the season, finishing the season off by winning all games, which also mean we'd win a trophy.
 

El Zoido

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Cardiff improved rapidly after sacking Ole though.

LVG brought in some old players like Bastian, but otherwise he bought players like Depay, Martial, Sneiderlin, Rojo, Blind etc who were not by any means old. He promoted Rashford too. LVG just failed execute his vision on the pitch and I'm seeing the same with Ole to be honest.
Those signing mostly weren’t great, and he only played Rashford because his hand was forced (Wilson was his backup, and then got a serious injury). LVG also had longer in the job.

I won’t defend Ole on the pitch too much, a lot of mistakes have been made. Our approach to both attacking and defending set pieces in particular, is appalling. I see a situation here where he can set the groundwork and a better manager can take us to another level. We can stick with Ole for a little longer as far as I’m concerned, for the most part I’m happy with the direction we’re going in.
 

sunama

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This is why i grimace when people go on about the big name managers with the big CV’s. Its like no one remebers 5 minutes ago.
It is the elite level managers who win trophies, my friend.
What proof? Here goes:

1, David Moyes - mid table manager who got us mid table results. He got us 7th.
2, LVG - a better quality manager, who gave us the most boring football ever witnessed at OT. He got us 4th place and 5th place + FA Cup.
3, Jose - elite level manager. Serial winner. He got us the League Cup and Europa League in the first season. In the 2nd season he got us 2nd place - the highest league position since SAF retired.
4, Ole - a League One or Championship quality manager who currently has us in 7th/8th.

Here's the deduction. If you have a big name manager with a big CV, you get results.
If you hire a mid-table or lower league manager, you get mid-table results.
 

Bilbo

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Basically we all just want winning football but disagree about how best to get there. Some think that only a new manager can achieve that, and others think that we need a better team before we can produce that, and that our current manager is the right man to oversee that. That's all this is really.
 

sunama

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We can stick with Ole for a little longer as far as I’m concerned, for the most part I’m happy with the direction we’re going in.
The direction we are going is down.
And you are happy with that? :confused:
 

Mainoldo

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If he wins the league this current season. He has my full support.
 

Shamana

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Those signing mostly weren’t great, and he only played Rashford because his hand was forced (Wilson was his backup, and then got a serious injury). LVG also had longer in the job.

I won’t defend Ole on the pitch too much, a lot of mistakes have been made. Our approach to both attacking and defending set pieces in particular, is appalling. I see a situation here where he can set the groundwork and a better manager can take us to another level. We can stick with Ole for a little longer as far as I’m concerned, for the most part I’m happy with the direction we’re going in.
I agree those signings werent great but i hardly feel that ole's are great either. Harry Maguire is the worlds most expensive defender. Considering value for money i think we have been robbed.
 

Shamana

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It is the elite level managers who win trophies, my friend.
What proof? Here goes:

1, David Moyes - mid table manager who got us mid table results. He got us 7th.
2, LVG - a better quality manager, who gave us the most boring football ever witnessed at OT. He got us 4th place and 5th place + FA Cup.
3, Jose - elite level manager. Serial winner. He got us the League Cup and Europa League in the first season. In the 2nd season he got us 2nd place - the highest league position since SAF retired.
4, Ole - a League One or Championship quality manager who currently has us in 7th/8th.

Here's the deduction. If you have a big name manager with a big CV, you get results.
If you hire a mid-table or lower league manager, you get mid-table results.
Lvg and moyes wasted tons if money. None of our managers post saf have been hits.