What would make you change your opinion on Ole

b82REZ

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Improve results and most importantly start to show to progression with performances.

As many have said I'd be more tolerant with inconsistent results if we could some sort of direction on the pitch.

IF Ole starts to implement some sort of attacking play and we don't look as toothless as we have all season I'd lower my usual standard of top 4 or bust and accept EL. Despite performances if we don't end up in any European competition he cannot stay.
 

El Zoido

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The direction we are going is down.
And you are happy with that? :confused:
We’re inconsistent, we’re not going backwards. The squad has shown signs of brilliance, it’s mostly a young team that needs a little more time. You don’t get the sense of a dysfunctional team here, it’s more small margins and tweaks that will turn draws in to wins. Imo we would be comfortably top four already this season if we’d had Pogba available.
 
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If his PL win rate reaches the high 50’s between now and the end of the season, then we have something to think about but that would show real progress.

If it doesn’t, we’d be complete idiots not to replace him.

We should ALL expect clear signs of progress after 1.5 years in the job and €214m spent.
 

JohnnyLaw

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It is the elite level managers who win trophies, my friend.
What proof? Here goes:

1, David Moyes - mid table manager who got us mid table results. He got us 7th.
2, LVG - a better quality manager, who gave us the most boring football ever witnessed at OT. He got us 4th place and 5th place + FA Cup.
3, Jose - elite level manager. Serial winner. He got us the League Cup and Europa League in the first season. In the 2nd season he got us 2nd place - the highest league position since SAF retired.
4, Ole - a League One or Championship quality manager who currently has us in 7th/8th.

Here's the deduction. If you have a big name manager with a big CV, you get results.
If you hire a mid-table or lower league manager, you get mid-table results.
To be fair to Ole he still has the chance of finishing up a better season than any of the listed considering we’re still in the race to top 4, europa league and FA cup. I think success in either of the three remaining competitions would probably make for an acceptable season to me.
Failure in every one of them is probably where he’d lose me in the context of the thread.

Saying there’s nothing that could change ones mind however is the answer of a stubborn fool.
 

TRUERED89

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But my point is if it wasn't Ole the player, can you imagine how the fan base would turn on to someone like say Moyes?

I call out a crap manager as soon as I see one. What he did as a player is irrelevant to me. Maradona was a fantastic player yet turd of a manager, why can't people just differentiate the two?
Zidane, Ancelotti, Pep, Cruyff, Conte, Deschamps, Simeone, Beckenbauer are like the only great players who also turned out to be great managers. I've probably missed a couple but I don't think there's been many throughout history?
 

Jezpeza

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It is the elite level managers who win trophies, my friend.
What proof? Here goes:

1, David Moyes - mid table manager who got us mid table results. He got us 7th.
2, LVG - a better quality manager, who gave us the most boring football ever witnessed at OT. He got us 4th place and 5th place + FA Cup.
3, Jose - elite level manager. Serial winner. He got us the League Cup and Europa League in the first season. In the 2nd season he got us 2nd place - the highest league position since SAF retired.
4, Ole - a League One or Championship quality manager who currently has us in 7th/8th.

Here's the deduction. If you have a big name manager with a big CV, you get results.
If you hire a mid-table or lower league manager, you get mid-table results.
Might want to check where Guardiola, Mourinho, Klopp and countless others were before their first managerial appointments before you post crap like that. LVG was shite. Di Matteo is shite. Rafa now works on China. They've all won the Champions League.

The game also changes. Mourinho was a serial winner but has declined. When you give a serial winner 3 or 4 hundred million to spend you expect them to come up
With more than he did for us, without turning the whole place toxic.

Also, does a couple of scottish honours and a europa league count as a huge CV in your opinion, just out of interest?
 

hobbers

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If we actually started playing good football and winning more matches than not.

If we still play the same awful shite we saw against wolves most weeks with Bruno now here and McTominay/Pogba maybe returned at some point..... well, it wouldnt exactiy be unexpected.
 

Bilbo

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Yet, @El Zoido Pogba played the first 3 games which were W, D, L, exactly how the entire season has continued whatever side we’ve put out. We win 1 in 3, we lose 1 in 3.
So that’s simply wishful thinking on your part.
Come on now, it really isn't. You've used a tiny sample size to argue that us having our best and most creative player available wouldn't have lead to even a couple more wins. I don't think you really believe that.
 

El Zoido

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Yet, @El Zoido Pogba played the first 3 games which were W, D, L, exactly how the entire season has continued whatever side we’ve put out. We win 1 in 3, we lose 1 in 3.
So that’s simply wishful thinking on your part.
Maybe. I really think we’d have turned many of those draws in to wins if he’d been playing. And the momentum would have helped.
 

tonnas

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Nothing. It like hoping lingard will turn into messi. When one is not good enough...he is not good enough.
 

tonnas

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I see the argument on both sides.

Where I am is that obviously results aren’t good enough. I really hope he can get us somewhere in the EL and sneak into the top 4.

On the other hand, he is flushing the turd from the squad and recruitment is better. I want to see him get another good midfielder and a right winger as we still haven't got one. When we actually have a reasonable starting 11 i’ll be more ready to judge him.

Much has been said about style of play but I actually have a suspicion we've deliberately been playing to bypass the midfield as it has lacked quality. Maybe with Bruno in we will see a change after this break. Its also been good to see him get a tune out of Fred, who was afterall a 50 million pound player, and some good youngsters playing.

We've been infuriatingly inconsistent which you would expect of a younger team, but the players haven't downed tools on him so theres something there.

I think we stick with him and give him the chance to sign a couple more players and a pre season with a good squad and then if he still cant get the results replace him
So you want to throw away another season before it starts?
 

fergieisold

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So many threads are at loggerheads at the moment between Ole in and Ole out, both have good points, but I read the same arguments every day to the point of distraction and it's rare that anyone concedes anything, everything feels very entrenched and polarised.

So Ole in posters what would it take to change your position?

How low could the win rate percentage drop? or how low would you go in the league this season before you change your mind?

And Ole out posters, how many wins on the trot would change your mind, which signings in the summer might make you think again?

What does Ole do that changes anyone's opinion?
Well I'm an Ole In.

At the moment the club is being dragged forward through probably the biggest transition a top club has gone through on a long long time. The results aren't great but the football is promising at times and the players like him, play for him and are still behind him.

To change my mind it would be the usual thing of completely losing the dressing room (a quick thing that's difficult to predict). Or a long period where we sign good players this summer to strengthen the team, the results are OK, but we aren't continuing to improve.
 

jackal&hyde

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Yet, @El Zoido Pogba played the first 3 games which were W, D, L, exactly how the entire season has continued whatever side we’ve put out. We win 1 in 3, we lose 1 in 3.
So that’s simply wishful thinking on your part.
Nah, it's true. Pogba would have had 3-4 goals and at least 4-5 assists. That's enough to have had at least an extra 6-7 points that put us 4th. Injuries happen though so that's not the problem imo, the big mistake was to not pay what was needed for Bruno in the summer and enter the season with only one good creative player. Pogbas injury has highlighted our boards incompetence.
 

redIndianDevil

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Well I'm an Ole In.

At the moment the club is being dragged forward through probably the biggest transition a top club has gone through on a long long time. The results aren't great but the football is promising at times and the players like him, play for him and are still behind him.

To change my mind it would be the usual thing of completely losing the dressing room (a quick thing that's difficult to predict). Or a long period where we sign good players this summer to strengthen the team, the results are OK, but we aren't continuing to improve.
That's a bit too much, Juventus got relegated and came back to the top. Inter Milan is likely back and looks set to win the Serie A. Dortmund has recovered every season after being gutted by the big clubs.
 

redIndianDevil

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Recognizing one's lack of talent and accepting it is one of the best things any one can do. Ole quitting the job will make me change my opinion of him.
 

jderbyshire

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People saying "nothing will make me change my mind on Ole".

What, so... not even three trebles in a row?

A treble treble.

You still wouldn't like Ole?
 
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Come on now, it really isn't. You've used a tiny sample size to argue that us having our best and most creative player available wouldn't have lead to even a couple more wins. I don't think you really believe that.
I do believe that cause I believe he’d have continued to play Pogba deep, and like versus Palace at home, Pogba would cost us as many goals playing in that position than he would create us. Plus, Fred’s minutes would have remained limited.
 
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Nah, it's true. Pogba would have had 3-4 goals and at least 4-5 assists. That's enough to have had at least an extra 6-7 points that put us 4th.
Or like versus Palace at home, he’d have continued to play deep because that was clearly Ole’s plan for him this season, Fred would have continued to be sidelined, and Pogba playing deep would have cost us as many goals as he created.

We lost a shit load at the end of last season with Pogba playing too so this fantasy land stuff of a miles better season with Pogba doesn’t wash either. As I say, it’s nothing more than wishful thinking.

As I say, the proof will be in the pudding, he has a couple of cups and 13 PL games to show he’s capable of this job. If he ends this part of the season now with a win percentage of say 58%, then the club have something to think about. If not, they have to get rid as a manager has to start showing some geniune signs of progress after spending €214m and coaching the team this long.
 

fergieisold

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Ole out here.
For me it is a complete change of style from him. His ideal way currently is counterattacking. When we have possession otherwise we don't have any clue what to do with it, so I can't say what he wants us to do there.
Counterattacking football has won one premier league title in the last decade. Most CL winning teams also are not counterattacking based teams.
tl;dr
If Ole gets every player he wants and implements his philosophy of counterattacking football with us we still wouldn't win much. The time for this sort of football has passed and we need a manager who has a more possession based philosophy.
His philosophy isn't counter attacking football. Looks more like he wants a possession based game to me. Being smart against the big teams and reverting to a counter attacking style doesn't mean that's the end goal.

So you want to throw away another season before it starts?
Replace him and we will have thrown away next season. Let him move forward with the squad rebuild.
 

Enigma_87

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Zidane, Ancelotti, Pep, Cruyff, Conte, Deschamps, Simeone, Beckenbauer are like the only great players who also turned out to be great managers. I've probably missed a couple but I don't think there's been many throughout history?
Not many true.

There are many cases of others that failed miserably like Maradona, Stoichkov, Matthaus, Shearer, Moore, Sir Bobby, Gullit, etc. The list is quite long.
 

Enigma_87

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People saying "nothing will make me change my mind on Ole".

What, so... not even three trebles in a row?

A treble treble.

You still wouldn't like Ole?
Why should we get rid of "deadwood" then?

Give chance to players like Lingard, Darmian, - they can turn up like Messi and Maldini in 3-4 years time. That would make people change their mind, no?

If we gave every crap player or manager time we would sooner or later indeed end up in relegation zone.
 

Jezpeza

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So you want to throw away another season before it starts?
Ey? I’ve said i’m interested to see us after the break to see if we will stop playing to bypass the midfield now. And that he deserves to at least have a pre season and actually have a rw/rm player in the squad.

To be honest if he clears some more deadwood in the summer and sells pogba then brings in a rw and a cm and we still play badly, at least the new manager will inherit some semblance of a starting 11.

Even with that, the Problem is is if you bring in a new ‘big name big cv’ manager to try and create a quick fix you probably bust us further. What people dont realise is managers rarely want most of the players they inherit, they want to stick to what they know. What if the next manager wants 2 extremely offensive full backs, two mobile centre halves and a big centre forward? Add to that pogba leaving and us having no right winger, we are suddenly 7 players from having a starting 11 fit for purpose.

People like you make me laugh, with comments like ‘throw away another season’, as if we chop and change manager, sign two players and win the champions league next season as well as getting 100 points in the league to come somewhere near Liverpool/City

We need a sustainable and long term approach, not knee jerking between managers because we have an entitled and delusional section of fans who think we have the god given right to win everything every year forever and nothing else is acceptable
 

roonster09

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fecking hell, people really struggle with simplest of OPs and comes up with same tedious posts.
 

ash_86

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1. Finish the season in a strong note with Players actually getting fit
2. Go deep in Europa and try to win it
3. Top4 or 5th at max.
 
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What people dont realise is managers rarely want most of the players they inherit, they want to stick to what they know. What if the next manager wants 2 extremely offensive full backs, two mobile centre halves and a big centre forward?
Erm, you don’t hire that manager?

That’s the exact thinking that has fecked us so far and why our spend is so enormous since SAF left, simple fecking logic says you hire a manager that wants to work with these players that your transfer committee has identified as the right players over the past couple of years.
 

jackal&hyde

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Or like versus Palace at home, he’d have continued to play deep because that was clearly Ole’s plan for him this season, Fred would have continued to be sidelined, and Pogba playing deep would have cost us as many goals as he created.

We lost a shit load at the end of last season with Pogba playing too so this fantasy land stuff of a miles better season with Pogba doesn’t wash either. As I say, it’s nothing more than wishful thinking.

As I say, the proof will be in the pudding, he has a couple of cups and 13 PL games to show he’s capable of this job. If he ends this part of the season now with a win percentage of say 58%, then the club have something to think about. If not, they have to get rid as a manager has to start showing some geniune signs of progress after spending €214m and coaching the team this long.
It's very reasonable to say that Pogba in place of Lingard or Pereira would have resulted in more goals directly and through assists. The difference from us to top 4 is 6 points so it's also reasonable to say we would have been there with a fit Pogba. There is nothing controversial about that imo and it would not mean that we would still have a lot of work to do as a team to actually compete for the title. But top 4 would have been in our grasp by now with Pogba.

I think some are underestimating how poor our creative players are, Lingard and Pereira, and how much effect that has on a team. Heck, forget Pogba, Bruno in place of Lingard and we would be top 4.
 
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It's very reasonable to say that Pogba in place of Lingard or Pereira would have resulted in more goals directly and through assists. The difference from us to top 4 is 6 points so it's also reasonable to say we would have been there with a fit Pogba. There is nothing controversial about that imo and it would not mean that we would still have a lot of work to do as a team to actually compete for the title. But top 4 would have been in our grasp by now with Pogba.

I think some are underestimating how poor our creative players are, Lingard and Pereira, and how much effect that has on a team. Heck, forget Pogba, Bruno in place of Lingard and we would be top 4.
Why didn’t Pogba play instead of those mentioned players in the first 3 games @jackal&hyde

You’re just assuming Ole would have completely changed his Pogba plan from the start of the season.
 

TRUERED89

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Not many true.

There are many cases of others that failed miserably like Maradona, Stoichkov, Matthaus, Shearer, Moore, Sir Bobby, Gullit, etc. The list is quite long.
Even our own past greats, Bruce, Keane, Neville, Scholes, Robson, Ince, Hughes have all been terrible or mediocre at best. Giggs and Ole will probably join the list soon enough too unfortunately.
 

Leroy The Red

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If we go on a good run and actually finish in the top four, failing that winning a trophy. Though football isn’t magic and simply doesn’t work on fantasy. Ole unfortunately is not of the required standard of coach that Man United need, it’s as simple as that. There is no magic button, we’re not suddenly going to start playing great football and winning lots of games. It’s just not going to happen.
Time, transfers, fully fit squad and whatever it is the defenders believe is needed for success in the long run is irrelevant. Ole Gunnar Solskjær next week, next month, next year or in five years is still going to be the same ole Gunnar Solskjær as of now. Not of the required standard.

I expect we’ll finish the season between 7th and 10th and he’ll be let go in the summer. This fantasy alternative is just that, fantasy.
If you ask anyone on here if they think Mike Ashley is suddenly going to become a great owner , they’d say no.
If you ask anyone on here if Ed Woodward is suddenly going to become a great ceo, they’d say no.
if you ask anyone on here if they think Jesse Lingard is going to develop into a top footballer, they’d say no. Yet for some reason we’re supposed to delve into this notion that Ole will become a great coach purely because of ‘time‘. You know the saying you can’t teach an old dog new tricks....
 

RedBanker

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People saying "nothing will make me change my mind on Ole".

What, so... not even three trebles in a row?

A treble treble.

You still wouldn't like Ole?
I am afraid none of us will live that long and neither will Solskjaer.
 

Jezpeza

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Erm, you don’t hire that manager?

That’s the exact thinking that has fecked us so far and why our spend is so enormous since SAF left, simple fecking logic says you hire a manager that wants to work with these players that your transfer committee has identified as the right players over the past couple of years.
Well thats crud then. Because I can’t think of a single manager who doesn't sign a load of players and change it up when they take over at a club. Just dont see anyone we would get that wouldn't want to rip it apart again. Just an endless cycle of rinse and repeat on the same failures.
 

Amir

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Not bothered with results. Don't expect achievements. I want to see a solid football base, a style, something that would allow me to think that with the right additions in the right positions, we can go places.
 
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Well thats crud then. Because I can’t think of a single manager who doesn't sign a load of players and change it up when they take over at a club. Just dont see anyone we would get that wouldn't want to rip it apart again. Just an endless cycle of rinse and repeat on the same failures.
I honestly can’t see what Poch wouldn’t like about our signings and promoting of Greenwood and Williams? Who wouldn’t he like @Jezpeza ?

Loves Bruno, loves a slow CB who can play ball. Loves promoting and improving youth.

What would he want to rip up here? I’d assume that he, like Ole would want a new midfielder and a new striker.
 

Jezpeza

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Not bothered with results. Don't expect achievements. I want to see a solid football base, a style, something that would allow me to think that with the right additions in the right positions, we can go places.
I’m interested to see us after this break. We've not been playing through midfield this season, mainly because Matic, Fred and Scotty are destroyers and Lingard runs around doing nothing, and Pereira is the brazilian tom cleverley. With bruno in there and perhaps pogba returning though I think he is going in the summer, i want to see how we get on trying to play in possession. If we still dont do anything that might tip me into thinking ole just plays one dimensional football and has no tactical nous, but this season to date has seen us basically have to bypass the midfield
 

Jezpeza

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I honestly can’t see what Poch wouldn’t like about our signings and promoting of Greenwood and Williams? Who wouldn’t he like @Jezpeza ?

Loves Bruno, loves a slow CB who can play ball. Loves promoting and improving youth.

What would he want to rip up here? I’d assume that he, like Ole would want a new midfielder and a new striker.
He'd want new fullbacks for starters. He's also not a manager who would ever win us anything in my opinion, poor record against top teams. You’re not going to win cups and league titles if you cant beat the best, either by just being a lot better or by tactics