Him having the decency to quit would be a good start.
What would make you change your opinion on Ole
- Thread starter The Boy
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
TBH Ole hasn't shown me he's a bad manager and I've also seen glimpses to suggest that he is good. The only real negatives I have about him so far are that he subs players on a bit too late and has not been great with injury management. He hasn't shown me he is good either, the team hasn't allowed me to judge him fairly as the amount of injuries we have and the quality of the xi's we bring out aren't great. What I will say is that Ole has show a good understanding of tactics in the big games and has been able to match the best managers toe to toe since he came here, that's a good sign. I would be far more comfortable if he had a previous track record of recognizable success, but a manager like that would usually not have the commitment to the club and the will to sacrifice his image for the club.
What I am certain of with Ole is that he understands and has tried to implement cultural initiatives in the squad. He's shown himself to be useful at spotting talented players, moreso than our previous managers. If he continues this track record, even if he ends up leaving, he would have left the club in a much better state than he found it. That is all we can truly ask
What I am certain of with Ole is that he understands and has tried to implement cultural initiatives in the squad. He's shown himself to be useful at spotting talented players, moreso than our previous managers. If he continues this track record, even if he ends up leaving, he would have left the club in a much better state than he found it. That is all we can truly ask
I'll change my opinion if I see an actual style of play for a sustained period of at least 2 months with an emphasis on attack leading us to create at least 10-12 clear goal scoring chances every game. It doesn't even matter if we lose the games in this period.
I was fully supporting Ole at the start of the season forgiving the shambles at the end of last season. I was enthusiastic that with the pre-season he would have enough time to drill in his style. But after a month of seeing no patterns at all, I was convinces Ole has no idea of how to coach players to score goals. I mentioned this at that time then how it would unveil and that the already hailed successes of Ole's purchases were too premature.
The excuse in 2020/21 will be based on 2019/20: He had a lot of injuries in his first full season, so he couldn't instill his football. His second full season is actually like his first, so it's just a building stage.
For me, in answer to the original poster, Getting some momentum going. Win a few on the bounce, orchestrate his troops from the technical area. Take charge of his team. It just seems so limp at the moment unless we are playing one of the top teams.
Not sure. He is out of his depth and annoyingly, continues to try to suggest progress, when it is clear we are seeing marginal evidence of real progress. Selling Lukaku and offloading Sanchez were obvious changes to be made. Maguire improves an average defensive unit. Bissaka is work in progress. Daniel James is a decent find. McTominay has improved.
None of these changes befit 'progress' for a club the size and history of Manchester United.
He's an average manager. He needs to show a massive change in outlook and ambition.
None of these changes befit 'progress' for a club the size and history of Manchester United.
He's an average manager. He needs to show a massive change in outlook and ambition.
You're right. I was drunk, stand corrected
Nothing. He’s amazing.
Honestly nothing will convince me that he isn’t the greatest manager that’s ever lived. Fergie, Jose, Pep, Klopp? They would only ever wish they came close to the genius that is Solskjær.
He could screw my wife, or club my kids to death and I’d still be Ole In. Why would any of that change my mind?
He is the messiah.
Yes the stats may consistently prove he is utterly useless and worse than 99.99999% of managers in world football, but he scored THAT goal in 99. So he deserves all the time in the world, and he will come good. I can see it now. Ole wins the quadruple 15 years in a row. It’s written in the stars.
Oh lord he is something crafted by the gods.
I bow down to Ole and his superior management skills. I watch on in awe and only wish that one day I could be even half the man he is.
I love you Ole, for no logical or comprehensible reason but for the fact you scored that goal. And you can relegate us into the abyss and I will still love you.
Lord praise Ole the saviour of Manchester United.
Honestly nothing will convince me that he isn’t the greatest manager that’s ever lived. Fergie, Jose, Pep, Klopp? They would only ever wish they came close to the genius that is Solskjær.
He could screw my wife, or club my kids to death and I’d still be Ole In. Why would any of that change my mind?
He is the messiah.
Yes the stats may consistently prove he is utterly useless and worse than 99.99999% of managers in world football, but he scored THAT goal in 99. So he deserves all the time in the world, and he will come good. I can see it now. Ole wins the quadruple 15 years in a row. It’s written in the stars.
Oh lord he is something crafted by the gods.
I bow down to Ole and his superior management skills. I watch on in awe and only wish that one day I could be even half the man he is.
I love you Ole, for no logical or comprehensible reason but for the fact you scored that goal. And you can relegate us into the abyss and I will still love you.
Lord praise Ole the saviour of Manchester United.
He'd have to go a crazy winning run where we play ambitious attacking football while delivering CL for next season and also a piece of silverware. That's the only thing that could make me think he should get another season.
Otherwise my feelings that he is out of his depth and we should be seeking to upgrade ASAP won't change.
Otherwise my feelings that he is out of his depth and we should be seeking to upgrade ASAP won't change.
Guessing the care in the community funding has been slashed in some parts of Manchester
Get to 5th, is the only justification. Liverpool and City are out of reach, but can't believe we can't catch up with Chelsea and Spurs, and possibly even Leicester City, let alone Wolves or others.
I'm still behind Ole. I know the results aren't there yet, the squad is still a work in progress, but I think, generally, he's moving in the right direction.
I would change my mind if the football became as unbearable as it was under LVG, or if he went into meltdown and lost the players, like Mourinho did.
I would change my mind if the football became as unbearable as it was under LVG, or if he went into meltdown and lost the players, like Mourinho did.
Just looking like we actually have a recognisable tactical plan week in week out would be a nice start.
I will be upfront and say he should never have been appointed permanently,however if he had the guts to demand better coaches that would be a good start.
And those results are because of Pogba alone? It makes no sense. I said he would have had a number of assists and goals that Lingard and Pereira do not have; that would have been translated in a few more points, not some huge transformation.
I would change my opinion on Ole if he started looking for quick fix signings, playing mediocre senior players over talented young players and constantly whining and passing the buck in his press conferences
Then I would think he was doing a bad job
Then I would think he was doing a bad job
I’m 50/50.
Top 4 would obviously be great and it may allow us to sign some decent targets in the summer.
Really don’t want us to scrape or blag top 4 to then have a mediocre season next year and be in the same boat.
If we can finish top 4 with good football, get rid of Pogba (as good as he is, he’s disruptive and doesn’t want to be here) and sign some quality players I’d be tempted to give him a shot.
Top 4 would obviously be great and it may allow us to sign some decent targets in the summer.
Really don’t want us to scrape or blag top 4 to then have a mediocre season next year and be in the same boat.
If we can finish top 4 with good football, get rid of Pogba (as good as he is, he’s disruptive and doesn’t want to be here) and sign some quality players I’d be tempted to give him a shot.
No, but 1 win in his last 10 Premier League games shows your belief that’d we’d have more points if Pogba wasn’t injured is nothing more than wishful thinking. Absolutely nothing so far backs it up.
Your argument that Pogba would have scored and assisted more than Lingard and Andreas is just too simplistic.
If Mata played every single game he’d also have more goals and assists than the two players you mentioned, but results with Mata have been equally mixed.
I get it, it’s comforting to imagine that we’d have been a miles better side with Pogba all season but as I’ve mentioned several times, Ole clearly had him down for a CM role so Andreas and Lingard would’ve still played too many minutes and Fred’s would have been reduced.
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A- He speaks about the need of a top quality DOF
B- He sacks Mckenna and Carrick and bring in top quality coaches to help him up
C- He actually shows he knows what he's doing in terms of tactics
D- He pushes for realistic targets which would allow us to buy the 4-5 players we need
E- He puts the like of Jones, Mata and Lingard out of the door.
B- He sacks Mckenna and Carrick and bring in top quality coaches to help him up
C- He actually shows he knows what he's doing in terms of tactics
D- He pushes for realistic targets which would allow us to buy the 4-5 players we need
E- He puts the like of Jones, Mata and Lingard out of the door.
This is what happens in all walks of life, when you put an under-qualified person in charge of something. Have you ever had that situation in the workplace, where the manager or similar is away for a prolonged period of time and someone gets bumped up to take care of things in their absence? 9/10 times that person micro-manages the feck out of the situation because they are shit-scared of messing things up - they exude the lack of confidence of someone who's functioning above their station. They're constantly worrying about something going wrong, which is what Ole exudes as our manager - look at his body language on the bench. He might as well be literally wringing his hands, he looks petrified. The reason he doesnt make subs until it's too late is the same thing - he's sitting on a 0-0 and thinks 'if I roll the dice, I might get a 1-0 or I might get a 0-1......'.
He's risk adverse because he's scared. Man United's manager should never be scared.
Pogba is by far our best player at creating chances. A lot of the points we lost were down to us not creating enough. Put the two and two toghether and it's not rocket science. Unlike last season we rarely lose points by more the one goal dif. So a few extea assists from mid would mean a few extra points. It's not a pro Ole or pro Pogba thing, it's a logical conclusion. Not that it matters at this point anyway.
It's not logical at all when we've drawn 5 of of our last 10 PL games where he started. Why didn't his extra assists from midfield help us win those games? Why did we lose 1-2 to Palace at home with Pogba at fault for the Palace winner?
Why are you still going on about this? It's absolutely not logical, it's wishful thinking.
I'm going on because you are being ilogical from my perspective and i'm trying to understand your point. We lost games with Ronaldo in the team to, was it because of him? Like i said, it doesn't matter though but we'l just agree to disagree on this one.
Hmm...
Maguire.
Jones. Matic. Young.
Do you regard Pereira as talented? I think it’s fair to also say that the jury is still out regarding a few others who‘s part of our squad.
“passing the buck“
Really?
As City have been slung out of the CL (for two years) by UEFA, Ole has to get us to fifth place this season and in so doing take City's place in CL next year!
I don’t understand your point
Maguire 80m = quick fix. (what else can you call it?)
Matic, Jones, Young = mediocre senior players
Pereira, Lingard = not talented and young
Passing the buck = compare himself to Klopp and Sir Alex, talk about needing time and all the other cringeworthy stuff he pulls out of his hat whenever we lose or draw a game.
If he gets backed and brings in good players a d we're still in the same position I'll change my opinion. Right now he is working on bare bones. He got rid of deadwood and Dudwood didnt replace them because he's a penny pinching scrooge. Ole is doing pretty well considering half our squad are mid table dross.
Ditch the happy to be here attitude and negative tactics, he can’t coach so he needs to bring in new coaches who can implement a style of play and patterns of play etc. Learn how to manage the squad, if the squad is thin then has to be prepared to gamble/rotate and not complain about bad luck if you don’t.
Much better results, 9th in table and 35 points after 25 games is an embarrassment that cannot be justified, the biggest reason for this season being a failure is Ole’s poor management. There are lots of things that make the job tough to any manger but Ole hasn’t done himself any favours. He’s very fortunate that 4th is still attainable and has to at least have some balls and show some fight to try and get there, congratulating himself for drawing at home to Wolves isn’t going to cut it.
Much better results, 9th in table and 35 points after 25 games is an embarrassment that cannot be justified, the biggest reason for this season being a failure is Ole’s poor management. There are lots of things that make the job tough to any manger but Ole hasn’t done himself any favours. He’s very fortunate that 4th is still attainable and has to at least have some balls and show some fight to try and get there, congratulating himself for drawing at home to Wolves isn’t going to cut it.
Yeah the top three would be nice but he knows he isn't allowed to broach the DOF or coaching subjects becaus Woody (Toy Story) won't like that at all.
The coaching staff is within the manager's domain. That happens at clubs were everything is heavily structured and the managers are head coaches (and therefore with far less power then Ole has) and it does happen with us were the manager is at the top of the football pyramid bar of course the board. Regarding the DOF its a bit more tricky. However if Ole had to say that he needed help then I doubt it would have been refused to him especially in his early stages of his perma career.
Very true. Thing is, he wasn't so defeatist and weak when he was the caretaker was he? I remember him showing the opposite attitude. He was all about how there's no excuses and we should expect certain standards here... but ever since he got the permanent job, it's like he cannot believe his luck. I don't think he feels he 'deserves' to truly be here himself. That's shown in his sheer reluctance to take any risks whatsoever, almost as if he expects to be shown up as the impostor he is if he does.
Which manager with a strong winning mentality, at home to Wolves who play 5 defenders, also keeps 5 at the back at all times, attacking with 3 players max, then when the game is still 0-0, having looked clueless attacking, no breakthrough is looking likely unless something changes... proceeds to make zero effort to win the match at home, is happy playing out a 0-0, then after the match, brag that Wolves are a decent team and they couldn't score against us?
It's hypocritical & sanctimonious to the max that people accept it & try to justify it, when they know if it is was anyone else, they would want them lynched. What a joke.
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Well said.
That's it, isn't it. When he was caretaker, there was literally no pressure at all on him and he didnt think he'd be fortunate enough to get offered the job - the board were literally telling the press they were conducting a search for a permanent manager, there was no mention of 'Ole might get the job if he does well'. I do believe that deep down he knows he's out of his depth and was the beneficiary of a crazy perfect storm of conditions that led him to be offered his dream job. This is why he's so risk adverse, he's clinging onto the job with his fingernails and refuses to take any kind of gamble in case it speeds up his exit.
Funny enough, I can see a situation where in about 2yrs he looks back on this and thinks "if only I had taken more risks - I might still be in the job".
He's basically squandering his dream job. He will never get an opportunity like this again and he's letting it slip away by managing Man United with the attitude of someone like Alan Pardew.
100% this.
C. I guess Ole gets no credit for his tactics when beating City, Spurs and drawing with Liverpool.
D. Maguire, AWB, James and Bruno in two windows is a very good start. If he signs two more players of quality in the summer that would truly be 3 great windows.
E. These guys will be gone once he has replacements. You can't gut your squad overnight.
I don't know enough about the club workings to comment on A and B. However, good transfer windows will negate the need for a DOF to an extent. That's been my beef.
If we get Pogba and McTominay back, with Fernandes next to them and basically our team at full strength (minus Rashford as he’s not coming back this season), and then if i could look at them and think “yeah, ok, i can see what we’re trying to do here”, then i might think to myself give a bit more time.
Because his most fervent supporters on this forum keep going on about given him time to get the squad back to full fitness, then judge him. So i would.
But ultimately, i genuinely think the guy is just out of his depth. I don’t think he’s awful. I don’t think he’s the worst manager i’ve ever seen. I don’t think he’s completely incompetent. I just think this job and rebuild is way too big for him. I also don’t trust him one bit to get us back to we we need to be, which is winning (or at least competing) for Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues. If you can honestly put your hand on your heart and say you think this guy can win us a Premier League or Champions League, then good luck to you i guess. He just doesn’t have the skills required for it imo.
Because his most fervent supporters on this forum keep going on about given him time to get the squad back to full fitness, then judge him. So i would.
But ultimately, i genuinely think the guy is just out of his depth. I don’t think he’s awful. I don’t think he’s the worst manager i’ve ever seen. I don’t think he’s completely incompetent. I just think this job and rebuild is way too big for him. I also don’t trust him one bit to get us back to we we need to be, which is winning (or at least competing) for Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues. If you can honestly put your hand on your heart and say you think this guy can win us a Premier League or Champions League, then good luck to you i guess. He just doesn’t have the skills required for it imo.
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Time to take the handbrake off now, it might be his dream job and salary but if he’s keeps going as he is he’s getting the sack at end of the season.
He’s scared to mess it up at the moment, as you say when he was caretaker he said all the right things now it’s like a different person. He also had plenty to say when he was Molde manager and Jose finished second, now he’s Moyes 2.0.
If going to go down at least have a go and stop being so passive and cautious, he’ll regret it if he doesn’t because he’s never managing at anything like this level again.
As I put my hand to my heart all I can say is "I don't know." I don't know if he can get us competing for PL and CL trophies. I don't know if he truly has the right skill set and I don't know if he is out of his depth. I would like to see what happens as he gets better players on the pitch this season. If it's encouraging then I would like to see what players we get in the summer and see what happens next season at least until December. I think that's a reasonable position.
He gets some credit sure, but the best teams make up 25% of the league matches. LVG had a good record vs the top teams too, no-one cared.
The main priority is what we do vs the 75% of the league no? Teams have been coming to OT and playing deep vs us forever. He has not got us any closer to breaking down these defences, since he first arrived. To the contrary, the league have got us figured out completely. It is unacceptable to me, that the problem we face every week for months, there is zero progress. Is that acceptable to you?
That is what people mean when they say ''he actually shows he knows what he's doing in terms of tactics.''