Whatever happens we have a nest of vipers in the dressing room

padzilla

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
 

Jippy

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
Why do we have a nest of vipers? If top class players feel the manager is not up to scratch tactically, it's a very difficult position to be in. So we're going to get rid of half our squad with the manager and go on another expensive rebuild phase?

Also, is every angry thought in your head going to result in a new thread being created today?
 

padzilla

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A new clear out for every new manager :drool:

It’s been so successful for us, why not.
It has worked for Klopp and Pep in less time than Ole has had - if you get the right person in to run the show then it won't be difficult. Instead we've got a work experience kid as manager right now.
 

padzilla

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Why do we have a nest of vipers? If top class players feel the manager is not up to scratch tactically, it's a very difficult position to be in. So we're going to get rid of half our squad with the manager and go on another expensive rebuild phase?

Also, is every angry thought in your head going to result in a new thread being created today?
Possibly :(
 

MUFC OK

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We haven’t had a top manager since SAF though. Our problem is that we almost haven’t chopped and changed enough, and let things get to this ridiculous toxic state before even considering their position. There are a lot of egos in the dressing room and the exact same would be happening if city/Chelsea/Liverpool/Spurs(yes, really) were experiencing the same situation.
 

youmeletsfly

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At work, when a new boss comes in and he's kinda shit, do you people not talk and gossip about it? Why football players shouldn't do the same?
 

Volumiza

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
Somebody got out of bed the wrong side this morning. Your other thread was a negative moan too.

We’ve got a very good team full of very good players and a GOAT. We don’t know what’s happening inside the club so no point in labelling our players ‘a nest of vipers’ - I’d say most of the vipers around this club are on this forum.
 
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Joking aside though, number one criteria for a new manager should be assurances and a plan from him on how he can best utilise the existing squad. None of this bullshit allowing a manger a tonne of new players & a clear out.
If a manager says he needs a tonne of money, time and a clear out, he’s the wrong guy.
Tuchel has proven if we didn’t know already that good coaching and structure alone can massively improve a squad.
 

largelyworried

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Meh, this is mild compared to just about every other comparable situation I can think of. If anything Ole did well to get to 3 years without complaints about his overall lack of plan from the players.
 

Volumiza

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Joking aside though, number one criteria for a new manager should be assurances and a plan from him on how he can best utilise the existing squad. None of this bullshit allowing a manger a tonne of new players & a clear out.
If a manager says he needs a tonne of money, time and a clear out, he’s the wrong guy.
Tuchel has proven if we didn’t know already that good coaching and structure alone can massively improve a squad.
Under a better manager this squad will not resemble the player performance threads.
 

smi11ie

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I think that is unfair. Players have a short career. They want to win trophies and beat records. If a guy is getting in the way of their dreams then why show him loyalty? If the manager helps the players achieve their targets then the players will show loyalty to the manager. It is a two way street.
 
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I’s also add Pad that I’d expect any changing room at United, Chelsea, Liverpool, City to be absolutely raging at everything and everyone if they were sat on 14 points after 9 games and being humiliated by Leicester and Liverpool in succession.
We’d have a bigger problem if they all thought like Ole “we’re close” and buried their heads in the sand.
 

Robbie Boy

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Many years ago, I worked under a manager who was woefully out of her depth, and as a result the whole team underperformed. When she left and was replaced by a really good manager, that same teams productivity was one of the best around. Just saying.
 

Red Stone

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Players want to win. If they feel like the manager is holding them back they're going to react. The problem isn't just unprofessional players. It's our incompetent managerial appointments. Rafa was chased out of Real Madrid, and then those same players performed admirably under Zidane. Happens at every club.
 

McGrathsipan

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It has worked for Klopp and Pep in less time than Ole has had - if you get the right person in to run the show then it won't be difficult. Instead we've got a work experience kid as manager right now.
You seem to be siding with the vipers !
 

Classical Mechanic

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It happens at most clubs. On Peter Crouch's podcast he said that its not uncommon for a player or group of players to turn on the manager and basically get them sacked.

One of the problems seems to be that Ole doesn't trust a number of his players. Eric Bailly has a point when he complains of Ole playing an injured Maguire over him and De Beek must be wondering what's going on. I think the issue with Conte is that he's a guy that has favourites as well. Compare to Tuchel who has gien a number of fringe players a chance this season and got a tune out of them.
 

passtheball

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There are vipers in every football dressing room in the world, and especially in every successful dressing room. They are, by the nature of their jobs, highly competitive men looking to advance themselves as much as the team.

We all need to read the following excerpt from Evra's book. In the title-winning team that Moyes took over, some players just did not respect him (read the excerpt to know why!) and actively tried to get him into trouble. When you have world-class players and an average manager, it is bound to happen.

For the United job, you need a big enough personality. Ole is not one; he is just an ex-player who has no standing in the game as a manager. We need to hire and fire managers until we find the right man, while demanding standards from them all the time. It works for other big clubs, especially Chelsea. We, along with Arsenal, are the only big club in the world that indulges the idea of "re-build" so much. Look where that got them.

Anyway, here's the excerpt:

The problems with David Moyes started soon after he’d taken over in pre-season 2013. David was really nice with everyone as he tried to settle into the job as Manchester United manager, but everything he did was compared to how things had been under Sir Alex Ferguson.

Even the slightest change would start players griping about how this wasn’t what the old boss would have had us doing. In Sydney, during a warm-up tour, David suggested that we should do some stretching on Bondi Beach near the hotel.

He wanted the players to relax, to get out of the prison that hotels can become. United’s own security, who travelled with the team, suggested that it wasn’t the best idea because we’d instantly be recognised. David just replied that he’d been to the beach with Everton and that there were no problems. “Yes, but you’re at Man United,” one of the security team pointed out.

So we went to Bondi, and started to stretch on the beach. Within five minutes, about 50 people started running towards us as word spread. Security, who were furious as the situation began to spiral out of control, tried to stop fans who were barging right into the session, but they had no chance — Man United were training right in front of people in a public place. Mounted police arrived to restore some order. It was a shambles and we had to leave for everyone’s safety.

There was every reason, however, to be optimistic for the new season but by late September, for the first time in my stay at United, we were sixth and seventh in the table. The fear other teams had of us disappeared in a few short months. Old Trafford had simply stopped being a fortress. You only had to look at David’s face to see the pressure he was under.

But the way he dealt with it and us was a big mistake. In the dressing room before one game, he said, “Guys, you’ve won everything here, you have to show me the way to win. I have never won the league, you have to show me how to do it.” I could see what David was trying to do by making the players feel responsible, but Ferguson would never have asked his players how to win a game. He would have told us how to do it.

Some players used that against him because they thought they were now in charge. Players who’d accepted being on the bench under Ferguson would complain if they were on the bench under Moyes. That made a very hard job even harder.

I remember one time when the left back Alex Büttner had a massive plate of chips in the hotel before a game, which the manager objected to and banned. Chips aren’t the best food for a professional athlete so I can understand that, and David had a point, but the story appeared in a newspaper two days later.

David was slaughtered in the media for making changes like that and he reacted by letting players eat chips again. The players knew they were in charge, and there was some sort of incident every day, always an unhappy player. Players became cruel and joked that Bebé had won more medals than Moyes.

Guys, we have to take some responsibility,” I said in training after weeks of this negativity. “We have to give the guy a chance.”

How can you kiss his arse when he tried to sign someone in your position?” one came back at me. “He’s tried to sign every fecking left back in the world.”

I’d gone to talk to David after our drubbing at City in September, where Sergio Agüero had run riot. I gave it to him straight, “There’s something wrong here, boss. The dressing room is not happy and I’ve not seen that in my time here before.” David admitted that he wasn’t the best communicator with the players, but told me that I should focus on my own game as I was playing well. What was a big issue in my mind didn’t seem to worry the manager.

As the situation deteriorated I decided to text Ferguson to see if I could talk to him at his home. Cathy Ferguson made me a nice cup of tea. “Boss, you have to help David,” I told Ferguson. “Patrice, I appreciate your concern and I’ll try and speak to him, but I’ve given him the biggest chance of his life and I think it’s fair that I keep a distance and let him do his job.”

We lost at home to West Brom at the end of September, a humiliating result for a team who had won the league five months earlier. I wasn’t alone in thinking David had made a mistake by getting rid of Ferguson’s three main coaches, Mick Phelan — a real football coach who held enjoyable training sessions — René Meulensteen and Eric Steele.

In February 2014, we lost 2-0 at Olympiacos in the Champions League. Our performance was dreadful. As I got back on to the team plane, I walked past David Moyes’s father sitting at the front. I felt for him, he should have been proud to see his son managing Manchester United in a big European game, but the defeat overtook everything.

I expected the players to be distraught on that plane; instead they were laughing around and playing video games, which admittedly was the normal thing to do on the way back home, but I didn’t feel it was the right thing to do after a humiliating defeat in Greece. The players had decided that the manager, not them, was the problem.

Again, I went to see David and told him that I was going to call a players’ meeting because the season was turning into a disaster. “I’m telling you because I don’t want you thinking that I’ve gone behind your back,” I explained. “Do it, Pat, that’s fine.” David was really down and getting criticism from everywhere. He needed support from the people who could help him, the players.

We held that meeting at Carrington and everyone aired their opinions. The players admitted that they weren’t performing to their abilities but that they didn’t have full faith in the manager. Too many of them blamed the manager.

We won away at West Brom in the first game after Olympiacos, but then we lost 3-0 at home to Liverpool, a disastrous result. David called a meeting of the defenders the following day. Nemanja Vidic was coming back from injury and it was common knowledge that he was leaving for Inter Milan at the end of the season.

David went through all the defensive players and picked out Nemanja and Phil Jones for criticism for their positioning. Suddenly, Nemanja started swearing in Serbian. “Sorry, do you have a problem?” David asked a visibly emotional Nemanja. “We have to defend one against one, but Rafael and Patrice are always high, they think they are strikers, they need to stay back.”

I disputed that, shouting, “You have to take your responsibility, Nemanja!” We stood up and argued, unable to hear each other above each other’s shouts. We started to square up and then I pushed him. David was going mad, telling me to calm down.

David’s assistants were now keeping us apart as I shouted at Nemanja, “I’ll wait for you after training.” It escalated in no time. My plan was to wait for Nemanja and fight him after training because David’s assistants wouldn’t let me get near him at the club. I would see him in the car park and we could fight there and then, man to man.

As I was thinking my plan through, one of the coaches told me that the manager wanted to see me in his office. David was shocked — I don’t think he’d seen two players fight like that before. I told the manager that I was sorry, that I shouldn’t have pushed Nemanja. “Where did that strength come from, Pat?” he replied, surprised and laughing. “But seriously, you cannot fall out with Nemanja like that.” “I know,” I replied.

I was still really angry, though, and went back home and planned how I was going to punch Vida the next day. I’d barely calmed down the next morning when I arrived at training and changed, but I didn’t see Vida all day. David told me not to do anything stupid and I promised him that I wouldn’t.

On Easter Sunday 2014, we lost 2-0 to Everton. Giggsy, who had been dropped, went mad after that match when Everton fans surrounded our bus and started abusing us. One of them threw something that bounced off the coach window. Giggsy stood up on the coach and shouted: “fecking Everton fans are now taking the piss out of us. Enough is enough.”
 
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RC89

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While I do think the manager deserves the players loyalty, how long can they continue to maintain morale if they can see things turning to shit?

In fact, I think the Atalanta second half shows they really are trying but enough poor results will inevitably lead to low morale.
 

SER19

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I was on board with this idea previous times. Not here though. How many times have these players bailed him out when it counted? They're being sent out like lambs to a slaughter with the least readiness I've ever seen United teams have

In fact id say they clearly like ole.
 

Dan_F

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Bit of a strange take considering half the players didn’t play under Jose and certainly not under LvG. Isn’t this just generally how things go at top clubs when a manager is close to getting sacked?
 

TrueRed1999

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They threw Mourinho under the bus briefing the media to get rid of him and are now doing the same with Solksjaer.
There were similar tales under LVG and Moyes - it's clear we have a rotten bunch of prima donnas who are not prepared to accept blame.
The likes of Maguire and Shaw regularly put in dreadful performances and then slabber on social media about making it right and keeping the faith.
We need clowns like them out - surely if it's the end for Solksjaer it should also be the end for most of the frauds wearing United shirts these days like Maguire, Shaw, Lindelof, Fred, McTominay, AWB and Martial who simply are not good enough.
This is the best squad we have had since Sir Alex, the results are on Ole this season, it was poor last season too but with the signing of Varane, and Ronaldo. How has Ole not been backed, he has consistently played like a defeatist manager playing several defensive players in games against even poorer opposition to us this season. When Ole told the whole world that he can't play against teams who put more at the back why are we shocked to be in the position we are in. No Good Manager will ever give out their greatest weaknesses on a table like that and this team hasn't won anything in years, are on the worst defensive start to a season seen since the 70s, first time we have been beaten at home in 80+ years so I am sorry mate, sentiment aside Ole has to go. If we are to salvage what we can the time to act is NOW.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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United are the most patient with managers I think of all the top clubs in England, relative to success and resources. This is just the way it works to push the issue. I don't have a problem with it, and I like Ole.
 

Lynty

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Don't agree.

They're fully entitled to be aggrieved about bad management. If they think they can place pressure on his job by leaking their feelings, let them. It's part of manager role in any organization to deal with this sort of stuff.

If he had been grinding out decent results, he could find the snakes and deal with the issue. Unfortunately, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 

Deery

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Where Ole has no one to blame but himself I think it’s quite clear it’s Pogba isn’t it, fell out with Mourinho in the training video and first to speak out against Ole.

What did strike me a strange when the interviewer asked Maguire if he was embarrassed he quickly said no, after he was out making an apology, there’s no sincerity in these guys at all.
 

sullydnl

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Nah.

Aside from being one of the most likeable group of players we've had in a while, they've repeatedly pulled Solskjaer out of trouble over the last couple of years with comeback after comeback. They had plenty of opportunities before now to pack it in under this manager but didn't. If the manager isn't good enough though, it eventually wins out.
 

UnitedFire

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Joking aside though, number one criteria for a new manager should be assurances and a plan from him on how he can best utilise the existing squad. None of this bullshit allowing a manger a tonne of new players & a clear out.
If a manager says he needs a tonne of money, time and a clear out, he’s the wrong guy.
Tuchel has proven if we didn’t know already that good coaching and structure alone can massively improve a squad.
The one thing a new manager has now is enough resources, albeit some of those need to be reallocated.

Most of the fan base have been saying for at least a couple of seasons that McTominay and Fred are not good enough. Pogba has been a problem to fit in most of the time he has been at Man Utd and even now he just seems like the odd one out.

None of us can say for certain if VdB is good enough, but clearly Ole and a bunch of other coaches think he isn't.

I'd hope he isn't good enough for their limited tactics, but should otherwise be. We definitely have a few ballers around so should be able to come up with something, but almost certainly need to make changes in transfer windows.

Ole doesn't get a free pass because he didn't swap the resources for what was needed and has had time to do so. A new manager will at least need a window to fix the obvious midfield shortfall.

You can't magic up solutions to obvious and sizeable issues.
 

GBBQ

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I think on the whole we have a good bunch of players who have played for the manager. But everyone has a tipping point and if you see the same mistakes being made and any chance of silverware slipping away surely you’re going to react.
 

MoskvaRed

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It’s not the 90s anymore - players have a lot of clout these days. It’s also strange how most of these players seem ok on international duty or at previous clubs. Maybe they don’t want to waste the peak years of their career under a coach like Ole?
 
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The one thing a new manager has now is enough resources, albeit some of those need to be reallocated.

Most of the fan base have been saying for at least a couple of seasons that McTominay and Fred are not good enough. Pogba has been a problem to fit in most of the time he has been at Man Utd and even now he just seems like the odd one out.

None of us can say for certain if VdB is good enough, but clearly Ole and a bunch of other coaches think he isn't.

I'd hope he isn't good enough for their limited tactics, but should otherwise be. We definitely have a few ballers around so should be able to come up with something, but almost certainly need to make changes in transfer windows.

Ole doesn't get a free pass because he didn't swap the resources for what was needed and has had time to do so. A new manager will at least need a window to fix the obvious midfield shortfall.

You can't magic up solutions to obvious and sizeable issues.
It’s not magic, see Lampard > Tuchel or Rafa > Zidane.

A competent manager will enhance the strengths of this squad whilst hiding the weaknesses (DM), our current crop play 4-2-4 and do the exact fecking opposite.
 

Ixion

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If I was a player for Ole and he was indulging underperformers, refusing to change any tactics that are getting exposed week in week out, I'd probably start complaining about it too. He has had every resource and opportunity to change things but we keep going with the same players, same formation.

Imagine at your work your team keeps making the same mistakes and every Monday morning your boss comes in team meeting and says we're going to do exactly the same this week. All the employees would soon start grumbling and questioning the leadership.
 
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tenpoless

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Press reporting stories that can be true or false at the time of chaos to generate as many clicks possible shocker. Also what viper? Ole, McKenna and Carrick dont need viper to ruin their jobs. They are themselves a group of clueless platypus. Not good enough for United and not interesting enough for other smaller clubs.