Yeap, when you have a team that's playing poorly but the guys that are really playing shite play regardless and others never get a chance. A certain amount of apathy and dissent will build amongst those not getting a chance and that will feed into every aspect of their time at training and in games.
Whatever happens we have a nest of vipers in the dressing room
- Thread starter padzilla
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Lets all calm down
Ole has a whole crew of propaganda buddies in the media, the players need to protect themselves as much more of this and we won't be playing CL football next season.
Yep. This is my main concern with Conte, as it’s these issues which have led him to repeatedly walk out on clubs.
Having said that, every incoming manager will want to recruit at least one, but probably two central midfielders, along with a right-back. That’s the minimum recruitment next summer, whoever is in charge.
Then there are certain managers who will also look to bring in a new GK and possibly CB based on the type of build up they envision.
Thanks for this, must search that book out. Love me a bit of Evra.
I think this is the cycle when a manager has lost the players. Leaks to the press etc only help push a manager towards the exit. This chapter will soon be closed. We have to trust the process!
Also, actively entertain the idea that the players are shit because the manager's shit.
Players don't make individual errors in isolation necessarily. If the system they're playing in is pulling them in a bunch of different directions, it takes a mental and physical toll on players where their errors increase.
Players don't make individual errors in isolation necessarily. If the system they're playing in is pulling them in a bunch of different directions, it takes a mental and physical toll on players where their errors increase.
United are constantly getting outrun and outworked by other sides. Pep, Klopp, Simone and Nagelsman all put great demands on their players to be able to run and sprint as much or better than any other team they are facing. We run less, tackle less, press less than any of those teams. How in feck can a coaching team at a club like United fail season after season to put forward a team that does the basic fundementals of football way below par compaired to other top clubs in Europe? It does not matter how good the players are or what kind of a system we play IF we can never outrun or outwork the other teams. I like OGS as a person like most do but as an figurehead of a club that calls itself the biggest club in the world he´s so out of his depth is just sad to see....having a happy go lucky manager in charge of what should be a ruthless professional team that always gives a maxium effort can never work...he´s afraid to call the shots and make difficult decisions and the lineup and tactics he decided on against Liverpool were so stupid not even a teenager playing FM would dare to try them
Id be more worried if the players were happy with him.
We all know Pogba is the lead viper, and I’m pretty sure it’s exaggerated. Pogba, Martial, Bailly aren’t unfamiliar with rioting, and Lingard and AVB have off course nothing to loss by joining the rebels.
Nice to see the FF isn't filled with hysterical threads this morning
The players we had under Moyes and LVG or even Jose are not the same. This is a common thing. If I am not mistaken, Bayern players were vocal against Ancelloti and Kovac. It didn't turn to be that bad for the team eventually.
*sighs* time for another "rebuild".
PLAYERS WANT TO WIN AND HAVE A COMPETENT MANAGER?! Utterly shocking for us. Yep, give Ole another 3 years contract with an option for a 1 year extension.
Suppose they should all smile and nod by being lead by a PE teacher to a 5-0 hammering.
Big clubs have big players, who have massive egos. Managing those egos is part of the job, if you can’t handle it then it’s another reason why the job is too big for you. Ole might be a legend in the fans’ eyes with everyone singing his name after getting smashed to pieces every week but in that dressing room we have players ranging from very good to elite, they’ve tasted success at the very top and want more.
I don't think our dressing room is particularly underhanded or "vipery", although I can see Ronaldo upsetting the dynamics somewhat.
I thought Ole elevated the morale? Brought the team spirit? Yadda, yadda..
In the past it’s been that way but these aren’t players not playing for the manager, these are players being given inadequate instructions.
You might as well put them out against Spurs with no manager. It’s the same thing as having Ole looking glum and confused in the dug out.
You might as well put them out against Spurs with no manager. It’s the same thing as having Ole looking glum and confused in the dug out.
Gotta love the mob on here thinking everything is fine when someone in that dressing room has thrown Maguire, Greenwood, McKenna, Ole and countless knows who else under the bus in the last 20 hours alone. We’re a fecking mess, from the unity and spirit of last year to this.
Ronaldo is actually one of the few that hasn't aired any grievance towards Ole so far in public, nor in private, despite looking increasingly frustrated in matches. I don't think he is very happy to have Ole as a manager, but he is nevertheless respectful enough towards Ole. The rest are not so kind. They seem to see Ole as a charlatan that has no place or abilities to be in charge of this club. The questioning of the tactics, both in private and public, is especially brutal.
Human nature at play here. Ole did well getting this group united but tactically just wasn't good enough. May have also been too soft just to appease some
To identify the toxic players, you just need to observe the on-the-pitch behaviour. Identify players that have a pattern of prioritising themselves and throw the team under the bus because things aren't going their way.
To identify the toxic players, you just need to observe the on-the-pitch behaviour. Identify players that have a pattern of prioritising themselves and throw the team under the bus because things aren't going their way.
You seem to have a lot of insight into our dressing room. I must have missed all these public criticisms of our tactics by the players.
Been living under a rock these past two days?
I can't say I've been following the media too closely, no. Feel free to show me instances of these grievances being aired in public (and I don't mean anything with "our sources.." or "source close to..").
Well, if you don't like "our sources" and "sources close to", then you'd be okay to know that Bruno, Pogba and Shaw has outright questioned the tactics and coaching in the media. Is that enough evidence for you?
Fair enough. What have they said that's so out of line?
Stories come about every manager.
They only make headlines in cases of blatant incompetence
They only make headlines in cases of blatant incompetence
These threads come up every time a manager is doing poorly and under pressure. Snakes, overpaid primadonnas, throwing the manager under the bus, get them all out, etc. etc.
Luckily, the squad looks pretty different now vs 2016 and 2018, so at least we know this is a new nest - unless Jones has actually been the king cobra / viper puppetmaster all along!
Luckily, the squad looks pretty different now vs 2016 and 2018, so at least we know this is a new nest - unless Jones has actually been the king cobra / viper puppetmaster all along!
There's nothing wrong with employees losing confidence in the management and underperformimg as a result. It happens in any industry.
The most concerning thing and our biggest problem by far is the ineptitude of the people that run this club. Unfortunately there's no getting rid of them.
The most concerning thing and our biggest problem by far is the ineptitude of the people that run this club. Unfortunately there's no getting rid of them.
As I am led to believe there are four levels to Team Development;
Level 1 FORMING - assembling the participants, fitting round pegs in round holes etc.
Level 2 STORMING - getting all the arguments and aggravations, (personal and technical) unearthed and out in the open, i.e. crying and stamping of feet etc.
Level 3 NORMING - beginning to look like and act like a team, each member understanding their own and every body else's role, identifying and agreeing tactics
Level 4 PERFORMINING - Putting all the planning and development into action and getting results, winning things etc.
At times its looked liked we might have progressed into level 2, but we are still miles off levels 3 and 4, possibly because we have constantly failed in Level 1, still too many square pegs trying to be fitted into round holes!
Lets hope the next manager squares all the holes or rounds all the pegs...first!
Level 1 FORMING - assembling the participants, fitting round pegs in round holes etc.
Level 2 STORMING - getting all the arguments and aggravations, (personal and technical) unearthed and out in the open, i.e. crying and stamping of feet etc.
Level 3 NORMING - beginning to look like and act like a team, each member understanding their own and every body else's role, identifying and agreeing tactics
Level 4 PERFORMINING - Putting all the planning and development into action and getting results, winning things etc.
At times its looked liked we might have progressed into level 2, but we are still miles off levels 3 and 4, possibly because we have constantly failed in Level 1, still too many square pegs trying to be fitted into round holes!
Lets hope the next manager squares all the holes or rounds all the pegs...first!
I can’t help feeling this is a bit dramatic.
This is just how modern football works now. Managers/head coaches don’t have that kind of totalitarian control of a club anymore, bar a few examples like maybe Pep at City at the moment they’re not as integral to the day to do running of a club as they used to be. Managers are even more disposable than players, they cost less, get paid less, and it’s much easier to get rid of one manager and replace him than it is to clear out 10 (or however many players it may be in any given situation) players who want him out and replace all of them.
This is just how modern football works now. Managers/head coaches don’t have that kind of totalitarian control of a club anymore, bar a few examples like maybe Pep at City at the moment they’re not as integral to the day to do running of a club as they used to be. Managers are even more disposable than players, they cost less, get paid less, and it’s much easier to get rid of one manager and replace him than it is to clear out 10 (or however many players it may be in any given situation) players who want him out and replace all of them.
Questioned the tactics and coaching?
"We have a lot to improve on and the coach also knows there has to be some improvement at their end but that is part of football."
That enough to you? Or is your idea of "out of line" is for them to say that Ole is utterly incompetent and should get the sack?
In all fairness I don't blame the players for this one. Not much has come out in the last couple of years and only is now as everyone expected him to be sacked.
If I'm a professional player who has put in the work to be where I am and sign for a top club, I'd be pretty disgusted to be coached by this lot.
At to that the treatment of some of the squad, Donny, Eric, Amad, Matic etc and I can see why some wouldn't piss on Ole if he was on fire.
If a player isn't good enough the are dropped and shown the door. Why is it different with the manager who is LEVELS below where he should be.
If I'm a professional player who has put in the work to be where I am and sign for a top club, I'd be pretty disgusted to be coached by this lot.
At to that the treatment of some of the squad, Donny, Eric, Amad, Matic etc and I can see why some wouldn't piss on Ole if he was on fire.
If a player isn't good enough the are dropped and shown the door. Why is it different with the manager who is LEVELS below where he should be.
But why should the players shoulder the blame and be scrutinised if the training and tactics are as poor as we now all suspect they are?
is that it? There's nothing particularly out of line there.Who says that? The players are absolutely right to criticize Ole and his ineptitude.
Okay, it's nothing. Keep living in Disneyland.
I am completely of a mind that Ole is nowhere good enough for the job of managing Manchester United and never will be but I am equally convinced that many of the players wearing our shirts week in, week out are also not up to it for one reason or another.
There's no excuse for a complete capitulation at home in the biggest game of the season in the league, they should be ashamed of themselves.
There's no excuse for a complete capitulation at home in the biggest game of the season in the league, they should be ashamed of themselves.
No names have come out and you don't know who all are expressing the concern. Also, if you ask anyone after a 5-0 dubbing, they will just lash it out. Feck, even SAF would say we are so bad.
Having said that, our manager is clueless and our coaching staff is so incompetent. Players are right. If they voice their opinion, you listen to them. This is not the old times where everyone should just listen to the manager always.
Don't put this on players. Every kid knows it's our coaching and manager. Let's not try to get a middle ground here stating players are also responsible for it. It's not. It's purely the manager and staff
If there is smoke, there is fire. You don't get these rumblings if the manager hasn't lost the dressing room. The fact that two of the leaders in this team in Bruno and Pogba have outright questioned the tactics in the media is sufficient enough proof. And these comments were made before Pool even smacked us around.