The near is getting problematic now. The goal they scored and the post they hit shows he is targeted there
What's happened to De Gea?
- Thread starter Salus Populi Suprema Lex
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
But he actually statistically makes more mistakes than 90% of the goalkeepers in the league. It's not a matter of us just not counting the others.
I don’t believe that.
He was comfortably our best player through some real shit years, if he didn’t have it mentally he would have been shocking back then.
Not sure what’s happened though but he’s definitely dropped a level or 2.
I think the opposite question is more useful - why do we want to get rid of him? Is it because he made errors (who doesn't?) ? Opposition teams would love for us to get rid of DDG as they know how good he is.
Are we certain that bar Allison and Ederson, there is someone else who is better? Romero probably should be given a chance, but this belief that Henderson is going to come in and be a world beater is sentimental rather than logical. DDG is now no longer a confirmed number 1, but he should stay at the club and made to work his way back into the team. We should not get rid of him.
No, he doesn't.
Schmeichel wasn't flawless - at all. He was - in fact - prone to serious feck-ups at times.
VDS wasn't flawless either - he was an old hand in what I would call his prime (which was his United years), and thus lacking in athleticism and sheer shot stopping ability.
But DDG needs to add something to his game. That's what we've been saying for several years now. And he hasn't done that. He's nearly thirty now.
Compared to Schmeichel and VDS (our two best keepers ever, most would agree), DDG simply is far less complete - he has far less strings to his bow.
And he needs to add those strings now. If he can't do that, he looks very much like a fantastic shot stopper who - just - lost his edge as he got older, and thus became a bit pointless. Not least as the highest paid member of the squad.
Interesting, I did not know this. Care to share your source for this stat? (as I find it slightly surprising)
Agreed. He doesn't need to be flawless, he needs to have an excellent season. He will make mistakes as they all do.
It's a genuine question. We can support him all we like, but he is 29 years old, not some young goalkeeper that has time to improve on his deficiencies.
De Gea was always a pure shot-stopper, his incredible consistency in that department was what made him stand out. Now, every flaw in his game is becoming more and more apparent. And to be perfectly honest, I've lost faith that he can improve on the other aspects of a modern GK.
Come on, Dave. Surely you don’t need stats to realise how rubbish you’ve been this season?
He still has the quality to fix it and come back strong again but the question is that whether he's going to do it or no.
Ha. Nice.
I just checked official premier league stats. How many errors do you think that De Gea has made that has led to a goal since he arrived in 2011/2012?
Thirteen. In 9 years he has made 13 errors in the Premier League that has directly led to a goal. That is just around 1 and a bit a year on average. In my view that is still within a fixable range.
Sell him while his stock is still somewhat high and give the shirt to Hendo.
De Gea was super human some years ago but is bang average right now and has been for a while now
De Gea was super human some years ago but is bang average right now and has been for a while now
They also hit the post from an almost exact position at the start of the second half, perhaps he always leaves a gap at his near post. Looked like he wasn't happy with himself after the first goal, Schmeichel would have been berating all the defence for that, even if it was his own fault. I do think he has lost a little confidence though.
Folks can spin it any which way they like... De Gea..is our biggest concern as a team going forward and competing for a league title now.
I hope he returns to form but we're now at the point in two seasons where he's made more errors leading to goals in two seasons than the rest of his United career combined.
What made him great was shot stopping and a split second loss in terms of reflexes when shots are pinged at you at 70mph makes a feck load of difference. It isn't coincidence either that his errors by an large are the same two types... Front post and long range efforts with poor body shape.
He is sitting far too pretty and comfortable for my liking in that he has zero competition for his spot and lets not try say Romero is able cause he likely isn't. He plays against inferior opposition in the cups and has never been a #1 and when he has its ended up poorly.
Best option is to take Henderson back if he's happy to seriously challenge De Gea to give up a serious wake up call.
Wouldn’t be surprised if at least half of them were this season. I also wouldn’t be surprised if today’s performance added zero to that total, despite him playing like shit. Near post goal (and post) aside, his kicking game was diabolical.
I could be wrong, but my hunch is he has lost interest and is just going through the motions, as opposed to any collapse in ability. If that's the case, he needs to move. It's pointless being at a club when your heart isn't really in it; it's unfair on both him and United. Fingers crossed he re-discovers his mojo and his old form.
I'm almost wanting to see Dean Henderson as the #1 or at the very least, have him and DDG work for the starting spot. We could also go the ruthless route and sell DDG while he still is worth a lot. Is this something we should be considering?
Whatever else about him, calling him mentally weak is very wrong in my opinion. Came here as a youngster, fragile, made a number of mistakes, was torn apart by the press and us fans... Weathered that, and for a time was probably the best keeper in the world.
I've seen far more experienced players crumble under less.
'e aged
Same amount of errors leading to shots/goals in the last two seasons as the previous seven combined.Folks can spin it any which way they like... De Gea..is our biggest concern as a team going forward and competing for a league title now.
I hope he returns to form but we're now at the point in two seasons where he's made more errors leading to goals in two seasons than the rest of his United career combined.
What made him great was shot stopping and a split second loss in terms of reflexes when shots are pinged at you at 70mph makes a feck load of difference. It isn't coincidence either that his errors by an large are the same two types... Front post and long range efforts with poor body shape.
He is sitting far too pretty and comfortable for my liking in that he has zero competition for his spot and lets not try say Romero is able cause he likely isn't. He plays against inferior opposition in the cups and has never been a #1 and when he has its ended up poorly.
Best option is to take Henderson back if he's happy to seriously challenge De Gea to give up a serious wake up call.
Says it all really. His form has fallen off a cliff since WC 2018.
There is a chance that he looked that way simply as a result of us being so bad. It allowed him to show his strengths in reflexes and one on one defending and hid his communication and command of area weaknesses. Plus even when he did make slight errors in regard, he covered it up with the saves
Sorry, I was referring to your quote that he has statistically made more errors than 90% of the goalkeepers in the league. I cannot find this stat. Not sure if it is true.Folks can spin it any which way they like... De Gea..is our biggest concern as a team going forward and competing for a league title now.
I hope he returns to form but we're now at the point in two seasons where he's made more errors leading to goals in two seasons than the rest of his United career combined.
What made him great was shot stopping and a split second loss in terms of reflexes when shots are pinged at you at 70mph makes a feck load of difference. It isn't coincidence either that his errors by an large are the same two types... Front post and long range efforts with poor body shape.
He is sitting far too pretty and comfortable for my liking in that he has zero competition for his spot and lets not try say Romero is able cause he likely isn't. He plays against inferior opposition in the cups and has never been a #1 and when he has its ended up poorly.
Best option is to take Henderson back if he's happy to seriously challenge De Gea to give up a serious wake up call.
I am aware that he has made more errors this year and last (3 and 4) compared to the previous years combined. As per my earlier post , he has made 13 in total over a 9 year period, which on average is about 1 and a bit a year. The devil is of course in the detail when it comes to stats. You could argue his errors now are worse because he has a better defence. On the contrary, you could say his previous no error/1 error seasons are amazing and should buy him more kudos as he had a shite defence.
Agree. Which is why it should be possible for him to get back on form.
But at the same time, it has been going for quite some time. Still think he is easily our best keeper, but he was the best in the world, and now likely is not a top 10.
According to the premier league website, he’s joint second on errors leading to goals this season with 3.
Last season he made 4.
So that’s 7 errors leading to a goal over two seasons, that stat probably doesn’t include soft goalkeeping like the one today.
Last season he made 4.
So that’s 7 errors leading to a goal over two seasons, that stat probably doesn’t include soft goalkeeping like the one today.
We aren't talking about the last 9 years we are talking about the last 18 months and de gea has directly been responsible for 9 goals which is higher than any keeper.
Edit: sorry its 8 which is the second worse. So yeah worse than 90% of the other keepers
I disagree. As a shot stopper his reflexes are the most important part of his skill set and as he gets older they are going to get slower. We are witnessing the beginning of his decline.
Nailed it!
The numbers don't lie.
Folks will say stats are bs etc etc. I find that very binary and disingenuous when so many top clubs hire data analysts now to interpret match data and looking at that table above screams he needs a serious wake up call and quick or he immediately gets dropped.
It's a huge call for Ole and he has to time it right cause we've a strong Spanish / Latin mix at the club and it could upset some other players seeing him dropped this season at least.
I think the WC 18 killed his confidence and around the same time his reflexes have been an issue as well.
If were honest everything else about his game has always been poor to average at best, communication, distribution and control of his box... all lacking.
Would it count his shit keeping for the Spurs goal a few weeks ago as an error ?
He's not just making really awful mistakes, it's stuff like today and Spurs too. Really soft weak keeping as you said.
We should probably get Henderson back and get him to fight for top spot but he should not be a guaranteed starter.
Hard to argue with the cold numbers. We really need him to get back near his best.
well said.
I have a feeling the people wanting Henderson to be No1 next season would be the same ones getting on his back as he struggles to settle, which would be inevitable I think. Changing keepers is a huge deal.
No, that goal and todays wont be counted. But that goes for every GK. So versus them relatively, the numbers are correct. Absolutely looking, he made more mistakes than 3 this season. But they weren't 100% mistakes, like almost own goals and comically bad.
Probably not no, if you include the times he’s just let soft goals in the stat would be worrying, I’m not sure where we could find a stat like that though.
He lost his mojo
Younger De Gea had strong self-confidence and out to prove himself, and oh he sure did.
Current De Gea is still having that "doubts" at the back of his mind, and well, he's not in an environment where he has to challenge himself. Easy environment with full of cash, nothing to prove. It's really boring. Ole need to play his cards well, use Dean to "threaten" De Gea.
Younger De Gea had strong self-confidence and out to prove himself, and oh he sure did.
Current De Gea is still having that "doubts" at the back of his mind, and well, he's not in an environment where he has to challenge himself. Easy environment with full of cash, nothing to prove. It's really boring. Ole need to play his cards well, use Dean to "threaten" De Gea.
I can think of the late Crystal Palace winner too at the start of the season for another really poor piece of keeping from him that wouldn't necessarily go down as an "error".
It's just really really shit timing. We finally look like we're going in the right direction, we have momentum and the team is exciting. And it feels like Dave is in massive decline and is now a huge problem.
So annoying.
I don't disagree that when he gets older, the reflexes won't be as good. And considering that organising the defense has never been his strongest point, he will likely be a bad keeper in 5-7 years.
I just think that the reflexes are still there. He still makes miraculous saves. Other similar keepers (like Casillas), dropped their performance sharply, but it was when they were 32-33 years old. De Gea should still have a few good years on him.
I believe his problems are mostly mental, and he is struggling to focus. He is still able to make good saves when focused.
He is still excellent keeper. He has little average season but nothing to worry about.
It was another members quote of 90%, not mine. Although based on his current form it easily could be true.
But its no longer 1 a year as you say, he was in superb form and now its just pretty much errors consistently.
Another very important point not yet mentioned is, that his is also facing fewer shots this year, a huge reduction in work rate... yet more error prone than ever.
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Well, I hope you're right about it being down to focus and receoverable.