You shouldn't sell if you don't have players lined up instead of them.
He has been backed so far and will be backed further. I don't think him not being backed up is the problem.
What's the plan?
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He has been backed so far and will be backed further. I don't think him not being backed up is the problem.
Does everybody here have a looking glass or what?
Where was I when everybody on caf got one?!
How in the hell do you know Mou won't be here for long? Because he's living in a hotel? So what, Tesla was living in a hotel for ages and didn't leave NY.
He's a miserable sod, we all knew that, nothing new here.
He sure looks like he's not enjoying football at all, just look at some of the old footage from Porto....but then again, he is getting older.
And we are not excatly playing well to be in a good mood now are we.
This director of football nonsense in just that, nonsense. Why the f do you need a dof for? What's the use of the manager then?
What he does need to change is his staff, SAF had some stinks at charge as well, and he changed assistant managers several times.
We played some great football with Queiroz, and then some great footy under Phelan. But it was different.
Perhaps this is the key point to look at, maybe he needs fresh assistants, maybe Faria is a bit outdated, a new perspective on things could bring something new.
Who's gonna tell him? And is his gonna listen?
You bunch know the future, you tell me.
P.S. and we badly need some smart players. Football smart.
Where was I when everybody on caf got one?!
How in the hell do you know Mou won't be here for long? Because he's living in a hotel? So what, Tesla was living in a hotel for ages and didn't leave NY.
He's a miserable sod, we all knew that, nothing new here.
He sure looks like he's not enjoying football at all, just look at some of the old footage from Porto....but then again, he is getting older.
And we are not excatly playing well to be in a good mood now are we.
This director of football nonsense in just that, nonsense. Why the f do you need a dof for? What's the use of the manager then?
What he does need to change is his staff, SAF had some stinks at charge as well, and he changed assistant managers several times.
We played some great football with Queiroz, and then some great footy under Phelan. But it was different.
Perhaps this is the key point to look at, maybe he needs fresh assistants, maybe Faria is a bit outdated, a new perspective on things could bring something new.
Who's gonna tell him? And is his gonna listen?
You bunch know the future, you tell me.
P.S. and we badly need some smart players. Football smart.
I think Jose think he can work wonders with this set of players firs before selling them one by one. Even he didn't had an alternative to Perisic, its him or not.
Yes, he has been backed so far. The problems lies in how we play football obviously.
Yeah. I mean it's all - lets just buy everything and everyone.
This team, despite the fact it has some average players who need to go, is a good team capable of better stuff than we're watching right now.
Its not a bad thing when Jose works with what he have. Even better if he can improve them all, which is skill that made SAF great also.
Its the manner that Jose set up this team to attack. If all things work, we should win 4-0 easily like always under him but if it doesnt work even making 1 goal is a monumental task for these players.
Go all in for Champions League
It's clear that we aren't close to being back on track to achieving success. Mourinho just doesn't know how to achieve that unless he has a perfect squad. Which won't happen for another couple years. The issue then becomes that your manager isn't really putting our players in the best positions to succeed, nor is he developing them. How many players have regressed since Mourinho arrive? That tells you the story. The manager's job is to win, but if there is at least progress in our style & players you can excuse moments where we go through difficult periods. I'm not overreacting to the dropped points, but that in combination with the lack of evolution of our football & players.
Mourinho doesn't seem to coach our team on how to leverage winning possession & within possession how to leverage movement & spacing to create clear cut chances. Even in the beginning of the season we struggled until we got that first goal. First few games we got lucky with nicking an early goal whether it was through set pieces, error, half chance etc. Then when the game opened up we took advantage on the counter. So all along we have struggled to consistently create & put away clear cut chances.We just aren't scoring those S*** goals as Mourinho would say, and instead conceding them.
If it were me i'd sit down with Mourinho and say simply that i don't have faith in you to give you unlimited money. If money is to be spent it will be with a DOF, you can put in the request for what type of players you'd like and we'll find the player that is best for the short & long term success of our club. You have until the end of the year to deliver top 3 or Champions League and we can re-evaluate your position. Older stagnant players that command higher salaries like Fellaini, Blind, Darmian, Mkhi, Young are going to be offloaded to buy some of the quality you need & also force you to turn to more younger players for depth who you will have to mentor & develop properly.
Simultaneously i'd start looking at coaches who i think will be able to play balanced attacking football (we don't want Wenger 2.0 after all) while also being able to work with & develop youth. Names like Tuchel, Jardim, Poch come to mind. With the crazy amount being charged to the top teams for players, it will become crucial to develop players from our academy and buy really young players with lower reputation to develop. So finding a manager who can deliver the attacking football to get us top 3 for the next couple years, while developing our younger talent into the stars we need to hit dominance again is the formula i'd follow. Mourinho will not deliver that so he isn't in my long term plans. Bandages won't bring us back to the club we used to be, we need to rebuild properly.
Mourinho doesn't seem to coach our team on how to leverage winning possession & within possession how to leverage movement & spacing to create clear cut chances. Even in the beginning of the season we struggled until we got that first goal. First few games we got lucky with nicking an early goal whether it was through set pieces, error, half chance etc. Then when the game opened up we took advantage on the counter. So all along we have struggled to consistently create & put away clear cut chances.We just aren't scoring those S*** goals as Mourinho would say, and instead conceding them.
If it were me i'd sit down with Mourinho and say simply that i don't have faith in you to give you unlimited money. If money is to be spent it will be with a DOF, you can put in the request for what type of players you'd like and we'll find the player that is best for the short & long term success of our club. You have until the end of the year to deliver top 3 or Champions League and we can re-evaluate your position. Older stagnant players that command higher salaries like Fellaini, Blind, Darmian, Mkhi, Young are going to be offloaded to buy some of the quality you need & also force you to turn to more younger players for depth who you will have to mentor & develop properly.
Simultaneously i'd start looking at coaches who i think will be able to play balanced attacking football (we don't want Wenger 2.0 after all) while also being able to work with & develop youth. Names like Tuchel, Jardim, Poch come to mind. With the crazy amount being charged to the top teams for players, it will become crucial to develop players from our academy and buy really young players with lower reputation to develop. So finding a manager who can deliver the attacking football to get us top 3 for the next couple years, while developing our younger talent into the stars we need to hit dominance again is the formula i'd follow. Mourinho will not deliver that so he isn't in my long term plans. Bandages won't bring us back to the club we used to be, we need to rebuild properly.
barely getting points vs lowly PL teams, what makes you think we have the team to beat Europe's elite?!Two goalless draws, penalty shootout and De Gea
I actually think that's the most realistic option to compete with a fully realised Pep team. Luckily for us, he doesn't have a true game changer like he did with Messi or briefly with Robben. Unless he gets Neymar, that won't be changing at City. No manager has proven good enough to realise that level of football that he is capable of which leads me to believe that unless we find a hidden gem, our best option is to just make up for that tactical inferiority with PSG like front line talent. Only slight hitch is what @JPRouve said; those players are rare and they ain't coming.
Indeed. This is the same board that appointed Moyes though. I wouldn’t bank on them doing anything logical.
Thing is, it’s the average players that the Caf hates (Fellaini, Young etc.) who’ve been performing reasonably well for Jose. The players who were good under LvG (Martial, Rashford) have gone backwards, and the ones Jose has brought in aren’t all setting the world on fire. Miki has been awful, Lukaku has his limitations and the manager seems to be unable to motivate or get the best out of Pogba. If it was my money he was spending I’m not sure I would trust him to do so wisely.
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The plan is United the stay the richest club in the world.
The real trophies are the big sponsorships.
Trophies like the league cup and the EL are for the "positive" fans in order to help them combat the "negative" fans and to argue 24/7 that the club is moving in a good direction and everything is good to great.
The real trophies are the big sponsorships.
Trophies like the league cup and the EL are for the "positive" fans in order to help them combat the "negative" fans and to argue 24/7 that the club is moving in a good direction and everything is good to great.
I agree with your point. But you may be underestimating Sane and Jesus. Think they are great talents and can rip the league apart next season.
I'd go for a joint DOF model. One would be a Nicky Butt type figure who you know will want to stay for years, club icon and lives in the area and breathes United. The other can be more of a European genius DOF with good connections and ability to create a modern day technical football side like the guys are City. That way we can get the best of both worlds and ensure continuity between past and future.
Thoughts @golden_blunder
In addition to that I would preach a return to attacking football at all costs and a rebranding exercise.. basically telling young players United is the best place to develop young attacking talents.. we need to reposition ourselves in the market and stop going for overpriced duds.
Thoughts @golden_blunder
In addition to that I would preach a return to attacking football at all costs and a rebranding exercise.. basically telling young players United is the best place to develop young attacking talents.. we need to reposition ourselves in the market and stop going for overpriced duds.
If that's the plan which I don't think it is or I hope it isn't it can't take us too far. We will lose our global support by time and appeal and fans will figure it out.
Hi.
Full disclosure, I'm a Blue and I've been lurking this forum (as I do RAWK, Spurs & Gooners) to see what opposition fans opinions are on football matters.
Anyway. My opinion for what it is worth. United need to ditch Mendes/ Raiola, he is dictating transfers and his agenda is to make money and not to make a team that wins things, Mou is from his stable so will blame everything but him.
You need an astute director of football, a philosophy that is bought into and a humble and progressive manager (Poch?) as well as patience. Get back to basics, dump the hairstyles and the dabbing and concentrate on winning games.
Anyway, that's it. Sorry if it offends anyone but I that that's the outside perspective looking in.
Full disclosure, I'm a Blue and I've been lurking this forum (as I do RAWK, Spurs & Gooners) to see what opposition fans opinions are on football matters.
Anyway. My opinion for what it is worth. United need to ditch Mendes/ Raiola, he is dictating transfers and his agenda is to make money and not to make a team that wins things, Mou is from his stable so will blame everything but him.
You need an astute director of football, a philosophy that is bought into and a humble and progressive manager (Poch?) as well as patience. Get back to basics, dump the hairstyles and the dabbing and concentrate on winning games.
Anyway, that's it. Sorry if it offends anyone but I that that's the outside perspective looking in.
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If that offends anyone he's crazy. Good 1st post imo.
Pretty much my thoughts though hadn’t thought of a joint role. I like it. Butt (or similar) could be responsible for ensuring the young players know united and it’s traditions as well as ensuring new players fit in. Basically an extension of his current role. The other guy responsible for scouting network and ensuring the right players are brought in. Both responsible for writing up the blueprint (or red print if you’re a top red) that clearly states the traditions of the club that must be adhered to (ie attacking football), etc.
I kinda feel like the club aren’t tapping into Fergie enough too
With such a structure I’d feel less nervous about giving the manager role to someone with less/no experience at that level
I've been supportive of Jose fully, especially in this forum, maybe sometimes too much. Arguably he has made good things and the club have made a progress, especially after the whole LVG ordeal (altho admittedly he has made some good stuff, but too less as opposed to bad stuff) but right now I don't like what I'm seeing and unfortunately I don't see a direction in this club going to. Especially since Jose is not a manager who will stick around for long.
Although I thought he will stay for long this time it's now obvious he won't and we need to think about the future. Maybe he'll decide to be a coward and go to PSG in the summer.
It's clear too that our attacking play isn't functioning, he's still trying to find a good formation and style of play, players are still sometimes playing like they just met. Sure, some of the stuff goes on the players, mistakes and whatnot but some of it is on Jose I'm afraid. Also we looked defensively fragile in the last few weeks and like instead of progressing we're going back to LVG territory. Whoever plays us is sure it can makes us hurt and has a go at us.
Maybe it's too early to talk about it now, who knows what will happen till May, in any case we need to dig ourselves from a hole we're in now. But on the whole it seems to me club is functioning on tries and mistakes, throwing shit on the wall sort of stuff in the hope it will stick. If we'll go on like that things won't get better in the long run. If we want to stay at the top both success wise and popularity we need a strategy. Maybe we'll get a DoF I don't know but some things must already be in motion or at least discussed imo. Obviously we don't know what's happening behind the scenes so I hope the board isn't just sitting there wondering what will happen.
Although I thought he will stay for long this time it's now obvious he won't and we need to think about the future. Maybe he'll decide to be a coward and go to PSG in the summer.
It's clear too that our attacking play isn't functioning, he's still trying to find a good formation and style of play, players are still sometimes playing like they just met. Sure, some of the stuff goes on the players, mistakes and whatnot but some of it is on Jose I'm afraid. Also we looked defensively fragile in the last few weeks and like instead of progressing we're going back to LVG territory. Whoever plays us is sure it can makes us hurt and has a go at us.
Maybe it's too early to talk about it now, who knows what will happen till May, in any case we need to dig ourselves from a hole we're in now. But on the whole it seems to me club is functioning on tries and mistakes, throwing shit on the wall sort of stuff in the hope it will stick. If we'll go on like that things won't get better in the long run. If we want to stay at the top both success wise and popularity we need a strategy. Maybe we'll get a DoF I don't know but some things must already be in motion or at least discussed imo. Obviously we don't know what's happening behind the scenes so I hope the board isn't just sitting there wondering what will happen.
Maybe but I do not see either of them game changers. They are obviously great players but Jesus will never be a Henry or a Suarez; players that can win a game on their own by going past players, dribbling and scoring. His ceiling for me something like Benzema. Sané is a pacey tricky winger like a young Robben. He can be an absolute nuisance and cause havoc but again I am not sure he has that goalscoring ability in him to be what Robben became at Bayern. I basically see those two the same way Rashford and Martial are, albeit more developed at this stage of their career due to being a part of a full functioning team and a more cohesive attack. If I had to bet on anyone in that foursome to become a match winner, it would be Martial. His combination of poise, dribbling ability, pace and composure is unmatched for a young player in the league in my view.
Trust me you have presented the fact in a very nice way.
I have been mad over City threads here (this is not a new one
Thinking about it does United have a plan? Long term plan?
Obviously Jose is here to get us back on top, to win a title. Right now it isn't working and we'll see what happen next year.
I don't think it will happen but if we completely fe.k up this season and don't even get CL or Jose decides to leave what next. Which manager? One who will be results first one or we will be patient with a lesser manager so to say (trophies wise) but who'll slowly somehow get us back. I mean right now we're near the top but don't look convincing and I'm not so sure about the future.
This question, what next, goes for the fans here too.
I've seen Ancelotti name being thrown out, that would be an absolute disaster and a definite sign we don't have a plan or direction.
I admit, this is a mish mash of a thread already. Maybe it sounds kneejerk and I'm the last one to be a kneejerk but today was diabolical.
Tbh mate I'm not sure that there is a long term plan at the moment.
We were so stagnant under LvG and ponderous, and so bad under Moyes, that I honestly think the plan when we signed Jose was that he was the best manager available that we could get, who could also have the best chance of winning us a title / trophies in the short term. Now, I don't think personally Jose is here for the long term, and I don't think the board believe that either. But the problems were so bad that there wasn't the opportunity to give a younger or unproven manager a chance as we needed to get back to some semblance of being United that Jose was the only (and correct) option.
However, right now is the best time for us to be looking at who will be coming in after Jose, whether that be next season or in 2-3 seasons time. I don't get the impression at the moment that we have done anything for life after Jose, except perhaps that the club may look to bring a director of football in and go down that route where we no longer have a manager per se, and instead bring in a head coach. (I may be completely wrong, but think I read somewhere on here that the club wanted to bring in a DoF but Jose vetoed it, so it may be something we look at once Jose leaves).
In terms of who next, I have no idea. If we go down the route of looking for a new manager, I honestly don't know who would be best equipped to take the reins as the choices will be between a young manager who is inexperienced at the very top level (someone like Marco Silva) or someone like Ancelotti, which would be another short term appointment. If we end up going for a DoF, which is the direction I would really like to see us take, I think it would allow more room for manoeuvre and would also help a younger coach I believe too.
Just my two cents anyway
I don't buy this "City had long term plan and did everything with a view of hiring Pep" thing.I have been mad over City threads here (this is not a new one
Thinking about it does United have a plan? Long term plan?
Obviously Jose is here to get us back on top, to win a title. Right now it isn't working and we'll see what happen next year.
I don't think it will happen but if we completely fe.k up this season and don't even get CL or Jose decides to leave what next. Which manager? One who will be results first one or we will be patient with a lesser manager so to say (trophies wise) but who'll slowly somehow get us back. I mean right now we're near the top but don't look convincing and I'm not so sure about the future.
This question, what next, goes for the fans here too.
I've seen Ancelotti name being thrown out, that would be an absolute disaster and a definite sign we don't have a plan or direction.
I admit, this is a mish mash of a thread already. Maybe it sounds kneejerk and I'm the last one to be a kneejerk but today was diabolical.
They approached Pep and Pep decided to manage elsewhere. Meanwhile they carried on like any other club and when they again got the chance they hired him.
If this was such a master plan, pep wouldn't have had big task of clearing deadwood. City wouldn't have signed players like Bony, Negredo who don't play like Pep prefers. They wouldn't have extended Yaya's contract so many times considering how the relationship was with Pep before.
They wouldn't have signed Kompany or even Otamendi. They wouldn't even have gone for Delph.
It all worked for them as Pep was available and he was ready to move on from Bayern. What if Pep really like the way Bayern worked and stayed for 3 more years?
When club starts playing well, people start to fill the blanks to suit the narrative.
Quiz - which EPL club has a manager serving longer than 5 years
Wenger why?
They had a plan to bring him in long before.
Great 2 cents, agree on about everything.Tbh mate I'm not sure that there is a long term plan at the moment.
We were so stagnant under LvG and ponderous, and so bad under Moyes, that I honestly think the plan when we signed Jose was that he was the best manager available that we could get, who could also have the best chance of winning us a title / trophies in the short term. Now, I don't think personally Jose is here for the long term, and I don't think the board believe that either. But the problems were so bad that there wasn't the opportunity to give a younger or unproven manager a chance as we needed to get back to some semblance of being United that Jose was the only (and correct) option.
However, right now is the best time for us to be looking at who will be coming in after Jose, whether that be next season or in 2-3 seasons time. I don't get the impression at the moment that we have done anything for life after Jose, except perhaps that the club may look to bring a director of football in and go down that route where we no longer have a manager per se, and instead bring in a head coach. (I may be completely wrong, but think I read somewhere on here that the club wanted to bring in a DoF but Jose vetoed it, so it may be something we look at once Jose leaves).
In terms of who next, I have no idea. If we go down the route of looking for a new manager, I honestly don't know who would be best equipped to take the reins as the choices will be between a young manager who is inexperienced at the very top level (someone like Marco Silva) or someone like Ancelotti, which would be another short term appointment. If we end up going for a DoF, which is the direction I would really like to see us take, I think it would allow more room for manoeuvre and would also help a younger coach I believe too.
Just my two cents anyway
I really hope wheels are in motion for the future of the club.
Cheers manGreat 2 cents, agree on about everything.
I really hope wheels are in motion for the future of the club.
me too.Mourinho is the right man for us so for now I'm more than happy to hand the reigns to him. If the rumour is true that the manager intends to walk at the end of the season then the Woodward Era would be considered more of a failure, and a shake up at the top brass of the club needs to happen. After Mourinho is gone I think the club should definitely try and get a DOF in. Shift Woodward back to the commercial side of things, bring someone in who can give us a good strategic plan and has a vision for the future of the club, get them working with new chief scout Ribalta, and get in a young, forward-thinking manager like Jardim/Pochettino. This could set us up for a great future with direction and purpose. For now let Mourinho continue to build the squad he sees fit, but before long the club should realise that our scattergun approach of just throwing money at the problem with no vision isn't sustainable or effective.
A decade, dear lord!
I actually would love this. He is doing such a great job at the youth level recruiting some good youngsters after years of City grabbing all the talents.
Indeed he is
Because you are expecting a manager lasting longer than 3-5 years. There isn't going to be any. 3-5 years is about all you will get, including Klopp and Pep. Look at Zidane now, probably gone before season end.
What we should hope for, is no more sacking or resigning during season. We would like to see someone managing a club for 3-5 years with some form of success. Longer than 5 years, forget it.