What's the thinking behind all United's goalkeepers?

The Cluck

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Messages
121
Location
Belfast, Northern Ireland
How many teams are as stacked in GK department as us for the past season and now? There the answer is. The chance for all these injuries is low. A long term injuries for all 3 that would be able us to persuade PL to Grant that permission is even lower. The likeliest scenario is paying someone for just sitting out and collecting pay. We did last season.

Edit: Hell. Our third choice (Grant) didn't play a game last season. I only remembered 2 games he featured for the 3 years he's here as third choice.
Jens Lehmann came out of retirement as backup for Almunia a year after retiring when Szczesny, Fabianski, and Mannone all got injured, and then even had to play a game because Almunia got injured during a pre-match warmup. Petr Cech was in Chelsea’s squad last season as an emergency goalkeeper alongside Kepa, Mendy, and Caballero, a year after retiring. Two pretty stacked goalkeeping departments there.

It happens. No harm in sticking Grant on the list of registered players just in case, especially when he’s already on the payroll. And don’t forget there’s COVID added to the mix of potential reasons for player absence.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
4,966
Henderson didn't shine bright enough to displace De Gea long term. It was still a great move by Ole to give Henderson a proper run of games and bench De Gea, which hopefully gave Dave a lot to think about during his extended stay on the bench. We'll see how Dave responds in training and in early season action and if he doesn't go back to the Dave of three seasons ago then Ole can go with Henderson going forward and Dave and his agent can assess options for his future.

It appalls all of us who make less in a year than Dave makes in a week, but apart from that there really isn't a big problem having these four keepers.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
9,839
Jens Lehmann came out of retirement as backup for Almunia a year after retiring when Szczesny, Fabianski, and Mannone all got injured, and then even had to play a game because Almunia got injured during a pre-match warmup. Petr Cech was in Chelsea’s squad last season as an emergency goalkeeper alongside Kepa, Mendy, and Caballero, a year after retiring. Two pretty stacked goalkeeping departments there.

It happens. No harm in sticking Grant on the list of registered players just in case, especially when he’s already on the payroll. And don’t forget there’s COVID added to the mix of potential reasons for player absence.
Retirement is the key word. They were on a normal contract and getting paid on regular basis to be on stand by for years.

Chelsea had a thin squad of players over 21 years old, so they have space to register Cech. Yes! They registered him from the get go. Entire different situation than having bloated squad that having to sending players on loan, leave them out.

Mannone went out on loan to Hull City during that season where Arsenal brought Lehmann out of retirement. He got sent back to Arsenal due to long term injury during the season. He was never meant to be on stand by for Arsenal that season in any sense. Arsenal having Szczesny, Fabianski, Almunia is pretty standard standard set up. Not stacked. Again not comparable to have a veteran as 4th choice but not getting registered for any club while receiving pay.

COVID alone wouldn't get permission to for emergency registration. Long term injury to 2 or all registered GK at the same time, maybe. Enough players from a team require quarantine, then the game would be reschedule like what they're doing. Missing out 2 of DDG, Henderson, Heaton. One of them is good enough to start. PL wouldn't grant emergency cover for few weeks and de-register the emergency back up. That would be a lot of paperwork.
 

Adisa

likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
43,613
Location
Birmingham
I don't even think any of the four are good enough. A mess.
 

HerbT

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
222
Supports
man city fc
While Henderson may be better in all those attribute, his overall quality is not yet making him better than DDG. It's more about the case of edging than the other's flaws than actually being prominent in those attributes.

"commanding his box, dealing with crosses, moving up behind a high line, distribution and communication". Any of these, Henderson yet to show he's the best in business. Any of those, there are better GKs in this league. And in technical aspect, Henderson is not flawless. Making fair share of mistakes. There is a reason Pickford is still England no.1 despite performing shocking for Everton in many occasions.
I can’t argue with that assessment, I couldn’t have put that point so well, but I was responding to a poster who stated that DeGea was better (or < greater) than Henderson.
My view is that Henderson, while not perhaps being the best in the business, is more suited to the modern game than DeGea.
I’m not saying that Henderson is a world beater by any means but his attributes at least allow you to push up and press without leaving a gaping chasm between your center backs and keeper.
Just having a keeper who dares to move off his line, and close up to fill the space behind your high defenders, is massively liberating, it really opens up your tactical options.
Henderson may not prove to be the ‘one’ but playing him enables you to play expansive high football and I’m absolutely certain that Henderson’s replacement will be even better in that regard.
 

ti vu

Full Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
9,839
I can’t argue with that assessment, I couldn’t have put that point so well, but I was responding to a poster who stated that DeGea was better (or < greater) than Henderson.
My view is that Henderson, while not perhaps being the best in the business, is more suited to the modern game than DeGea.
I’m not saying that Henderson is a world beater by any means but his attributes at least allow you to push up and press without leaving a gaping chasm between your center backs and keeper.
Just having a keeper who dares to move off his line, and close up to fill the space behind your high defenders, is massively liberating, it really opens up your tactical options.
Henderson may not prove to be the ‘one’ but playing him enables you to play expansive high football and I’m absolutely certain that Henderson’s replacement will be even better in that regard.
Fair points. I have no disagreement regarding your take on tactical option with Henderson.

I think mine and most other posters main concern is paying the 4th choice PL level GK unnecessarily. Could hahve sold Romero for pennies. Better than paying him, and "punishing" him for no reason.
 

foolsgold

Full Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
1,015
Location
Aotearoa
Pickford is experienced on the international stage & very rarely lets England down. Why should he be dropped for Henderson? An equally error prone goalkeeper, with no international experience. Seems fairly foolish to me.
It's the nature of football, everyone believes that they should play and be number one. Henderson clearly isn't short of confidence.

It's impossible for Henderson to dislodge Pickford unless he is playing every week, therefore he becomes first choice at Manchester United or he leaves and becomes first choice elsewhere. He's clearly not going to be a number 2 anywhere. So we have a choice to make.

You'll note at no point did I say Henderson was a better keeper than Pickford or should be first choice. Frankly I couldn't care less either way.
 

Solskjær's Red Army

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
105
Supports
United & Rot-Weiss Essen
The funny thing is Romero probably is better than all of them. Whichever way you look at it, this is piss poor planning.
 

Barnslig

Full Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
2,173
Location
Norwegian living Down Under
So, all the while David has been adored and loved in Manchester and we wanted to keep him here, Edurne hated Manchester, but after 10 years and clearly the end of David's time here sooner rather than later, she wants to uproot their kid and move to Manchester? What?
 

izec

Full Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2013
Messages
24,666
Location
Lucilinburhuc
Yeah I think Schmeichel was 28 when we signed him. We signed Van Der Sar at 34.

DeGea has declined but he could regain form and have another 5-10 years at the top.
His 'form' has gone for 3 years. He wont regain it, unless he moves away and seeks a new challenge.

GKs that regain their form either have a change of scenery or are excelling in other parts of the game later in their careers. De Gea is specialist in reflexes (that decline with age) and staying here (due to wages). He should have worked on his weaknesses a decade ago, not now when he lost the starting spot for club and country.
 

Solskjær's Red Army

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
105
Supports
United & Rot-Weiss Essen
It's funnier that you think that.
Romero is comfortably better than both Henderson & Heaton. A prime DDG was a different animal but he's far from that now. He declined massively from that level and I think Romero is a better keeper than this version of David.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
14,157
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
His 'form' has gone for 3 years. He wont regain it, unless he moves away and seeks a new challenge.

GKs that regain their form either have a change of scenery or are excelling in other parts of the game later in their careers. De Gea is specialist in reflexes (that decline with age) and staying here (due to wages). He should have worked on his weaknesses a decade ago, not now when he lost the starting spot for club and country.
Well let's see how his career plays out and we'll meet back here in this thread in let's say 2027?
 

Eternitiy

New Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
581
Defies belief that anyone who has watched United for for the past 3 seasons thinks de Gea should continue as our first choice. The guy is finished and has singlehandedly ruined our seasons for consecutive years (2019 - cost us top 4 and CL with blunders, 2020 - selected ahead of Romero for 3 semi finals, horror-show performances and losses in all 3 semi-finals, 2021 - statuesque display for the penalty shootout vs. Villarreal and of course the only 1 of 22 players to miss to literally knock us out).

I say this as someone who loved and supported him when we first got him in 2011. But if you cannot see he's not the same player, then I don't know what to say. Maybe I'll be in trouble for speaking my mind, but I'm simply reporting what I saw, as I saw it.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
14,157
Location
And Solskjær has won it!
Romero is comfortably better than both Henderson & Heaton. A prime DDG was a different animal but he's far from that now. He declined massively from that level and I think Romero is a better keeper than this version of David.
Yeah he's so good I imagine as soon as he became a free agent he was snapped up by a top club the very next day. Was he?
 
Last edited:

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
6,287
Location
London
Think it's pretty clear we are eventually going to go with Henderson but are having trouble getting DDG off the books. To be honest, unless we're massively supplementing his wages via a loan deal, I don't see where he goes.
 

The Cluck

Full Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2021
Messages
121
Location
Belfast, Northern Ireland
Retirement is the key word. They were on a normal contract and getting paid on regular basis to be on stand by for years.

Chelsea had a thin squad of players over 21 years old, so they have space to register Cech. Yes! They registered him from the get go. Entire different situation than having bloated squad that having to sending players on loan, leave them out.

Mannone went out on loan to Hull City during that season where Arsenal brought Lehmann out of retirement. He got sent back to Arsenal due to long term injury during the season. He was never meant to be on stand by for Arsenal that season in any sense. Arsenal having Szczesny, Fabianski, Almunia is pretty standard standard set up. Not stacked. Again not comparable to have a veteran as 4th choice but not getting registered for any club while receiving pay.

COVID alone wouldn't get permission to for emergency registration. Long term injury to 2 or all registered GK at the same time, maybe. Enough players from a team require quarantine, then the game would be reschedule like what they're doing. Missing out 2 of DDG, Henderson, Heaton. One of them is good enough to start. PL wouldn't grant emergency cover for few weeks and de-register the emergency back up. That would be a lot of paperwork.
Is it confirmed that Grant won't be registered for the PL next season? The final list hasn't been submitted yet. The list after the 2021 January transfer window included De Gea, Henderson, Grant, and Romero. United registered 23 out of an allowed 25 players, meaning there was room to spare, even with four goalkeepers registered. Swap Heaton for Romero, and the goalkeeping situation is the same as in January. That's not to mention the goalkeepers available via the U21 list.

Grant is earning an alleged £30,000 per week and is a player-coach, don't forget. He could have left United at the end of his contract and signed for a lower league club and finished out his playing days there, but if he has long-term ambitions to become a coach, what better place to do it than at United, where he can work with some of the best goalkeepers in the country every day? And he'd be available in a worst-case scenario to step in if the others get injured. He has weighed up his options and decided that is better than getting another season or two of playing time in.

Regarding COVID, there's more than simply testing positive and having to isolate. Pogba said it took him months to fully recover last autumn after he caught it. Who is to say one (or more) of the goalkeepers won't get COVID and suffer from long-term effects? Especially now almost all restrictions in England ended as of yesterday.
 

VivaRonaldo85

Full Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
1,138
This is one of Ole’s biggest issues to resolve before the season starts. Can anyone tell me a team in recent history that has succeeded with two so called first choice goal keepers fighting it out for the number one shirt? I can’t.

Ole must back one of Henderson or De Gea as his number one and let the other one go. With Heaton as a perfect number two for some cup games, there is no need for Henderson and De Gea at the club. It creates uncertainty throughout the squad and reduces the chance for our back four to form any sort of partnership with their goal keeper particularly as Henderson and De Gea’s styles are very different.

For what it’s worth, I’m not sure either are the long term answer, but I would back Henderson and do everything I could to thank De Gea for his incredible service but move him on ASAP. I’m surmising that moving him on is or will continue to be hugely challenging given his huge salary we have splurged on yet again. A real issue that needs sorting ASAP by the club.
 

UnitedSofa

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
2,140
Its obvious one of De Gea or Henderson will be going.

Henderson/De Gea - 1st choice
Heaton - bench
Grant - backup

That's a pretty straightforward goalkeeping set up.

I'd guess its De Gea going. Granted, its hard to see exactly where he goes given his wages etc. But in the end, you don't build your squad based on who you can't get rid of. We might see De Gea on the bench for a while before he eventually goes, but unlike last season, I think Ole will tell him his time's up and he won't be getting game time. It'll be up to him to find a new club.
“Obvious”

How exactly?

A loan enquiry for Hendo got rebuffed immediately & DDG is too expensive for most clubs.

See how “obvious” it is when both keepers are here at the start of the season.

I just can’t see either keeper going.

DDG/Hendo - Battle for number 1
Heaton - backup

Grant - stays 1 more year for his coaching badges, he’s apparently on 10k a week. Peanuts to Man Utd.
 

sugar_kane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
2,302
I was going to say perhaps United had fecked up and presumed DDG was off to PSG who then signed Donnarumma instead, but the Heaton signing and Lee Grant contract renewal both came after Donnarumma signed for PSG.

I could make sense of the current scenario if they'd let Lee Grant go, but signing Heaton and renewing his contract makes zero sense unless one of De Gea or Henderson leave.

Henderson doesn't look to be under the impression he's leaving either so all in all it's just a rather weird situation.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
18,864
Location
København
Supports
Time Travel
I wouldn't count de Gea out so easily, he could have folded like Kepa or any other expensive keeper after the initial mistakes and the barrage of criticism that followed when he first arrived and yet he had the mental strength to not only cope with it but end up in conversation for the best keeper in the world soon after. A mid career renaissance for a goalie is hardly anything new, especially if he gets his personal life in order with the wife and child moving to Manchester.
 

Alex99

Rehab's Pete Doherty
Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
13,372
Courtois at Atletico style loan for Henderson on the cards?
 

RORY65

Full Member
Joined
May 28, 2009
Messages
3,428
I wouldn't count de Gea out so easily, he could have folded like Kepa or any other expensive keeper after the initial mistakes and the barrage of criticism that followed when he first arrived and yet he had the mental strength to not only cope with it but end up in conversation for the best keeper in the world soon after. A mid career renaissance for a goalie is hardly anything new, especially if he gets his personal life in order with the wife and child moving to Manchester.
The problem is his main skills have been his reflexes and shot-stopping, they're not going to get better as he gets older, while he's not a good communicator, he never comes off his line and he's poor with the ball at his feet so I can't imagine he's going to age well as a keeper. He got a huge contract after one of his worst seasons because the club was panicking about losing him for nothing, typical of the Woodward era to be reactive rather than proactive, and the likelihood is we're going to be stuck with him so we just have to hope that maybe he can have some sort of return to form for a couple of years even if he's not going to do many of the things you want from a goalkeeper. At times Henderson hinted that he can do a bit more but whether overall he's the level of quality required I'm not sure.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
18,864
Location
København
Supports
Time Travel
The problem is his main skills have been his reflexes and shot-stopping, they're not going to get better as he gets older, while he's not a good communicator, he never comes off his line and he's poor with the ball at his feet so I can't imagine he's going to age well as a keeper. He got a huge contract after one of his worst seasons because the club was panicking about losing him for nothing, typical of the Woodward era to be reactive rather than proactive, and the likelihood is we're going to be stuck with him so we just have to hope that maybe he can have some sort of return to form for a couple of years even if he's not going to do many of the things you want from a goalkeeper. At times Henderson hinted that he can do a bit more but whether overall he's the level of quality required I'm not sure.
You could say his development kind of stalled after the failed move to Madrid in 2015. He initially had issues with Van Gaal and then Mourinho plus not being stable in his family life and having one foot in Spain and another in Manchester probably did not help either. He seems like a sensitive person, so if this news about him committing himself to Manchester along with buy in from his girlfriend and family is true, I'd expect him to concentrate more on his game and that might pay some dividends. Its a minor thing but it might make a huge difference once he realizes he cannot get by on shot stopping instincts alone. The demotion to being back up for Spain might serve as a wake up call as well.
 

1950

Full Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2017
Messages
338
This is one of Ole’s biggest issues to resolve before the season starts. Can anyone tell me a team in recent history that has succeeded with two so called first choice goal keepers fighting it out for the number one shirt? I can’t.
Barca won the treble in 14/15 playing Bravo in the league and MAtS in the CL and Cup.
 

UpWithRivers

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
1,973
Its how United operate. We have Rashford, Martial, Amad, Pellestri, Greenwood, Sancho, Cavani, James, Lingard, Chong, Shoretire for the front 3 positions. Yes while some will be loaned/sold or are not ready its still 11 players but we still give Mata a new contract!!!????
 

largelyworried

Full Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
1,189
“Obvious”

How exactly?

A loan enquiry for Hendo got rebuffed immediately & DDG is too expensive for most clubs.

See how “obvious” it is when both keepers are here at the start of the season.

I just can’t see either keeper going.

DDG/Hendo - Battle for number 1
Heaton - backup

Grant - stays 1 more year for his coaching badges, he’s apparently on 10k a week. Peanuts to Man Utd.
Lets think through what you're saying. De Gea has two years on his contract, which means next summer we will be in exactly the same situation as this summer. So if we've decided his contract means he has to stay, then we stay like this until 2023. So even though having two goalkeepers wasn't good for either keeper's form, and despite being a headache for the manager and despite the fact that we pay those two over half a million a week between them, we've decided that situation is so great we've planned to do it for another two years. And as if that weren't complicated enough, we've brought in yet another keeper who's come in acting like he's number 2 and talking about getting chances for the first team, even though our current number 3 has just one start in two seasons. And we've decided to have a number 4 out of, what, pity? As opposed to just paying him to be an actual coach while he finishes whatever qualifications remain.

Or alternatively the plan is to get rid of one of De Gea or Henderson, at which point the goalkeeping situation becomes totally sensible. Good first teamer, good backup, plus a third choice just in case. Yes, maybe it will take a while to get rid of De Gea. Sometimes it can take longer than you want for a plan to unfold. A loan to a club where we subsidise his wages seems the most likely option. Or maybe we're waiting for a big cash offer for Henderson instead of a simple loan. Either way, the point is, as soon as you accept that one of De Gea or Henderson are leaving, the goalkeeping situation is totally normal. If you suggest we're planning to keep them long term, its totally bizarre. Seems obvious to me.
 

tenpoless

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
8,641
Location
*Teleports behind you*
My guess is that Grant will become part of the GK coaching staff soon. So it's only De Gea, Henderson, Heaton. But really though who we need is Emilio Alvarez. De Gea hasnt been the same since he left.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
26,327
Location
Where the grass is greener.
The oddest thing about this thread is the bonkers overrating of Romero. Blokes average, good 2nd choice keeper or cup keeper, but that's it. Seems no matter who it is, the less they play, the better they become.
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
45,384
Location
Munich
If De Gea, Henderson, and Heaton are all injured, would you rather have Grant or an U21 goalkeeper with no PL experience having to play?
In all my life supporting United, there has been a single occurrence of our top two keepers being off at the same time, when De Gea and Lindegard were injured, and the third keeper (was it Sam Johnstone or someone else) had to play for a single match. So it happened once in 20 years.

All three keepers getting off at the same time is virtually unheard of. It is such an impossible scenario, that is not worthy of discussing.
 

r1z3mu

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 17, 2021
Messages
112
I tend to agree with most that our goalie situation is not perfect. Last year DDG was a little shaky but Henderson didn't convince me either. We have to remember that Henderson is 24 (will be 25 this December) so he is not some kind of youth player. I think Ole will be rotating goalies this year.
 

0le

Full Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2017
Messages
5,087
Location
UK
It is baffling. Very poorly managed to be honest.