Good post!
Sorry to quote you again, but what makes you say this when Pogba has played in the deeper role all season with McTominay next to him and Pereira or Lingard ahead of them?
Not reversed roles. Its playing without a traditional no.10, kind of like a 433. Fred and Bruno as a double pivot. Pogba with a free role given complete freedom to affect play. This means that instead of occupying the space behind the striker, he can drift to the flanks or deeper depending on the game.
No prob. Don't get me wrong, Pogba can play in a deeper role. But that's because he's a good player, not because he's suited to it. I think his game is suited to a free role. His game requires complete freedom. He can play next to a Kante, but not a Fred or Mctominay. Since we have Fred and Bruno, it would be a waste to play Pogba in a deeper role, because that restricts his game. In a free role, he has the freedom to drop deeper, drift out to the flanks or make runs into the 18 yard box. Also, he's not the main creator, so he can take as many long shots as he likes.
Hope that means Ole wants to experiment it in future games.
He's a legend in FM. However don't we have Garner in that role?Considering Man Utd have extended Matic's contract by one year, I'd be quite happy with the acquisition of Camavinga. With Matic in the team, United could afford to allow Camavinga to adapt to the rigours of the EPL. Whilst acknowledging that the very mention of Matic may want some people want to tear their hair out, its perhaps worth mentioning that Matic has typically faded in the second half of the season, both at Chelsea and with Man Utd. This break from football could potentially do him a lot of good. Now, the addition of the aforementioned would ensure he wouldn't get played into the ground.
I can envisage Camavinga dovetailing quite nicely with Fred.
I feel the addition of two further creative options would maximise the effect of the trio. A ball playing defender like Gabriel Magalhães with a propensity to make incisive probing passes which break the lines allowing those in the third and fourth phase of the game to take advantage. And of course, the widely spoken about Sancho. I thought he was Chelsea bound until the purchase of Ziyech. In any case, whilst Sancho is a fantastic player in his own right, I feel he'd have a galvanising influence on Bisakka who as you all know, is consistently criticised for his influence offensively. Not many top teams have wide players who play on the side of their dominant foot. Instead of players inherently capable of hugging the touchline, we've seen a propensity of inverted players, and with that comes offensively orientated full backs. Some sides may have someone who plays on the side of their stronger foot, but they tend to be inside forwards with immaculate off the ball movement as opposed to having that sprinkling of stardust in in tight spaces when it comes to dribbling ability. In recent years, I think City is the most notable example of what I'm trying to say. Sane is closer to being a winger than a second striker. It was my feeling that Sane functioned better with a Delph/Danilo than being played with Mendy. Therefore, I'd like to see how a Sancho/Bissaka partnership would function. Sancho provides width, his ability dictates he'll attract more than one defender which opens up space for others, and his youthful exuberance would complement the attacking forays of Rashford and Martial. In this sense, the set up of United would be quite different from currently first place side, Liverpool who rely on creativity from their fullbacks. Although United's options at full back are by no means lost cases, I think its fair to say United's personnel means we don't have that luxury. In contrast, we'll have Bruno, and possibly Sancho providing creativity in abundance, and two ball players defenders at the heart of defence. Matip is fantastic at this, but it seems he's lost his place to Gomez, and Van Dijk continues to contribute as he did previously Van Dijk passing at Southampton ... This would also extenuate the potential departure of Pogba who is one of the most creative players in world football. Furthermore, since a midfield don't operate in isolation, I felt it necessary to mention an additional player at the back to help with ball progression, as well as out wide.
I've mentioned players from the academy in the past. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. Below is a post I made from three years ago where I mentioned Brandon Williams, Teden Mengi, Lee O'Connor, Elanga, Laird, and Shoretire. One player I've never mentioned below or elsewhere is the player you just mentioned. The reason? Quite frankly I don't particularly rate him.
I don't think it's crazy to think Matic could have one last good 15-25 game season for us with the break. Something like this is what I would expect fore next season assuming 55 games (38 + 10 in Europe, 7 in Cups)
Ahh I see. I would love to see a 433 too. The thought of Bruno and Pogba as the number 8's, with a top class holding midfielder excites me. It'd be very similar to how City play. That said, Ole seems quite set on a 4231 which, as you said, means one will play deeper. Due to Ole playing Pogba there when he's been fit this season, it leads me to believe he'd be doing so next season too if he's still here. It be nice to get a defensive midfield to sit next to Pogba, but I feel because we are playing a pivot, we can get possibly get away with Fred, Matic or McTominay beside Pogba.
Matic had arguably the best midfield performance in the post Fergie era in the game against Real Madrid in the Super Cup. He certainly bolsters our options, and with the manager seemingly a fervent admirer of both Fred, and Mctominay we can expect rotation. Concurrently, Pogba is such a household name that I can't imagine him being fit and on the bench for longer than 2-3 games. The man management of the gaffer will be put to the test.
I’m sure we could get away with the current personnel regardless. I would certainly prefer that, even setting up in a 4-2-3-1, we use any of Matic, Fred or McTominay in a much more strictly defined holding role, in order to enable Pogba to, essentially, go and play - better getting the most from Pogba as opposed to getting more from Fred or McTominay at the expense of stifling him .
Yeah, I could definitely see Ole playing Pogba in a dual pivot. Tbf it would still work. I am interested to see how the team dynamic changes with Pogba added into the team though. Right now Bruno is the main man and everything goes through him. Throw a Pogba in there and suddenly you have 2 focal points. It would be interesting to see if that confuses things and makes the team worse, at least in the short term, compared to a Fred - Mctominay - Bruno.
At the current level & current situation, player who spent lot of his career in Championship is better than the one who is good enough to play week in week out for top EPL team? Sometime I am amused with people in here.
For me it's always positive to have more than 1 focal point. This provides more consistency in case the only focal point is out of form or tightly marked, just like Pogba has been in the previous seasons. Moreover, Bruno isn't really a player who tends to do everything himself, instead he is good at pass and move and making use of spaces. I think he can build a great partnership with Pogba.
I could be wrong so take what I say with a huge pinch of salt, but It's possible he doesn't view Fred as a holding player, but rather something closer to a defensive box to box midfielder. In which case, a holding midfielder (Phillips according to him) in his view would be a significant improvement on someone he doesn't (Fred) perceive as a natural holding midfielder. I think it could potentially be an inherently risky strategy to look down on players in lower divisions. Take RB Leipzig as an example, Péter Gulácsi was languishing around in the English lower divisions. He's now considered to be a key player for RB Leipzig, a side which none of the sides in the Bundesliga have conceded less, and his performance against Spurs in the Champions League was quite possibly the best goalkeeping performance of the Champions League this season.
I think Phillips is good enough to play week in week out for a top EPL team too. He's just my choice for holding midfield as we have no one.
Of course this all depends on if Ole goes with a 433, which I dont think he will do. As you said, Fred is better in a double pivot. Same can be said about Matic and McTominay, so it makes sense to continue.
Why double pivot would never work? Did you watch France won the World Cup? Did you know that we've been playing Pogba in double pivot this season?
Could be why we are linked with Grealish. But I think it all depends on how Ole wants to utilize Pogba. Pogba can partner with Fred in the pivot but can also be the back up AM you are talking about and in that case getting a DM instead of back up AM seems more reasonable. If Bruno for example is injured or needs rotation we can play Pogba as the most advanced in a free role with the new DM and Fred/Mctominay/Matic in the pivot
The reality is that regardless of what you think about Pogba playing deep in midfield his managers continue to pick him in that position. Posters proposing midfields involving both Pogba and Fernandes are just being realistic.
I knew you were going to target that particular part of my post and ignore every other part.
Not realistic at all. Bruno was signed to replace him. We just haven't sold him yet but we will.
Were we cut open at will in midfield when we played a midfield three of McTominay Pogba and Pereira at the start of the season? Be honest!
We were utter crap were we not?
The main focus of the discussion & the thread itself is about midfield trio not all midfielders in our squad.
Baseless nonsense.
Agreed, great points. Also, people seem to forget that Pep was looking to sign fred before we got him, as a replacement for fernandinho, a player who is clearly an anchor in city's midfield. I think this in addition to what we've seen from him all season suggests he can do the role. Not guaranteeing that a bruno, pogba and fred midfield will work but I think we'll be silly not to strongly consider it before going out and splashing when clearly we have other priorities. Thanks to the break and hopefully us getting a fully fit squad to end the season with, we'll get to see this experiment play out.
Pogba plays well in a pivot for France you say we shouldn't judge by that because it was just six games yet you're judging Pogbas performance for us in a pivot with Mctominay in very few games like the world cup
Many share the same false memory that Pogba hasn't played and can't play in double pivot. I've seen it in multiple posts and I expect more to come.
He may well play a few games as season isnt done due to covid 19. He's not staying though. He's clearly going to leave at end of season. His agent and brother never shut up about him wanting to leave.
Completely agree. I like more than 1 focal point as well, but I do think that it requires very very good coaching. Bruno and Pogba could be amazing, it just comes down to who does more defensive work for me. I think Bruno provides better defensive cover so I would play him slightly deeper than Pogba.
You've avoided my question. You said teams were cutting through us, when that is all made up nonsense to continue with this made up narrative that Pogba cant defend. Is he better than McTominay, Fred or Matic at defending in the deeper area? No, but thats where the midfield balance comes from. Just like Keane was better than Scholes or Matic better than Fabregas at Chelsea, for example.
