Gardens of the Moon was shite and all. It was the most complex and convoluted plot that's ever existed, and unlike most books - even WoT - where you get slowly introduced into the world and characters, Erikson seems to think that you should already know who all the characters are and where they're based, because by the first five chapters you've already met nearly fifty characters. Every second sentence requires a turn to the glossary.
So your not pretending that you like the series anymore?
Hows Gardens of the Moon. Have the book but not yet read it
Books Wheel of Time
- Thread starter Count Duckula
- Start date
Right,
CD you need to read the belgariad.
Pawn of prophecy
its much more simplistic, less melodramatic and often quite droll.
first book is fairly short too.
CD you need to read the belgariad.
Pawn of prophecy
its much more simplistic, less melodramatic and often quite droll.
first book is fairly short too.
The Belgariad and the Malloreon, while a decent read if you're into fantasy, are much worse books. I've read them, and I suppose I enjoyed them when I did, but they're not great.
I just get annoyed by books which go on and on and require you to understand the lineage of 30 different characters.
Wheel of time is just overkill and windy in my experience.
Belgariad is a light read, with likeable characters. You dont need to describe everything, your mind does that for you.
I also liked the first 4 goodkind novels, as well as faith of the fallen, but you need to at least tolerate the randisms.
The reason why lord of the rings was such a good book was because you could submerge yourself to your chosen level. You can take it as a surperficial read, short dude chucks ring in fire- has a fight, or you can delve deeper into the legend behind it, and in so doing embolden the characters.
You should have that choice.
Wheel of time is just overkill and windy in my experience.
Belgariad is a light read, with likeable characters. You dont need to describe everything, your mind does that for you.
I also liked the first 4 goodkind novels, as well as faith of the fallen, but you need to at least tolerate the randisms.
The reason why lord of the rings was such a good book was because you could submerge yourself to your chosen level. You can take it as a surperficial read, short dude chucks ring in fire- has a fight, or you can delve deeper into the legend behind it, and in so doing embolden the characters.
You should have that choice.
2 days time and the series is finally completed and after buying the prologue on my phone i am looking forward to seeing how everything finally is tied up then completed.
Holy shit I had no idea. I might have to reread the last couple first to remember whats happened.
I'm about to do the same looked out the last few books earlier today and might give them another read before i start the new one. Sanderson has done a great job finishing off all the notes Jordan left behind before he died and it was a good pick for someone to finish off a lifetimes work.
Exciting times, RIP Robert Jordan.
Not sure when I will get round to reading Memory of Light, I cant see myself having time. Except I will probably make time for it
Not sure when I will get round to reading Memory of Light, I cant see myself having time. Except I will probably make time for it
I was reeaaaally into this some years ago and it was a major annoyance that Jordan decided to bugger off before finishing the series. Would be nice to read the end but I hardly remember anything now. I actually read book 1 for a second time this summer and I enjoyed it. Might give it all a second go, but how many books are there? Pretty sure I was on nr 8 or 9 when I realised there wouldnt be an end and stopped.
Pre-ordered on Amazon. Not sure how I'll find time to read it, but I certainly intend to.
Thanks for the heads up. Didn't even know it was coming out. Will uses a voucher I got for Christmas on this
Called up the store and I'll have my copy tonight or tomorrow morning. Already pre ordered it on another site so I'll pick it up whereever I get it first. Can't wait for this!
There's apparently one chapter which is around 150 pages long
There's apparently one chapter which is around 150 pages long
AMoL is the 14th book in the series so yes a re-read of the entire series will take you a long long time!
I've always heard about this book series, I've never bothered, 14 books seems like a tall order even for my patience levels, is it worth my time ?
I would say yes but the books can be hard to get into just due to the level of detail and the amount of plot lines going on at once or being introduced as you get further in. It took me a few books of the series to get into the style of writing and adjust to the depth in the story but i found it worthwhile. You can get the books cheap now on amazon or the likes for £3 ish 2nd hand delivered in good condition up to nearly new which is not bad if you want to get into the series cheaply.
Just finished a re-read of The Towers of Midnight, now time to finally bring this story to a close. I'd forgotten just how brilliant this story is.
I've actually been following WoT a bit in the two years since I created this thread. I'm up to Book Six: Lord of Chaos, primarily because I've been reading them on and off just because I promised my girlfriend I would. My opinions still very much mirror the opening post. So my answer to your question is:
No; they're atrocious. Do you want to spend four pages being told about the patterns on the womens' skirts, and how the gold embroidery on the cushions is shaped like a heron? That's the "level of detail" they go into. It's not fun detail, like the history of the nations and characters, it's shite like the colours they're wearing and how many legs the table has. The characters are unpredictable (in a bad way), and half the time just cliches. They're also universally irritating, and most of the time you'll just end up getting frustrated by how they act.
I've also never seen a book that so blatantly rips off all of its ideas from other books. The Eye of the World is almost a paragraph for paragraph copy of The Fellowship of the Ring. Even RJ fans don't deny that; they just laugh and say it was a "deliberate tribute".
Sanderson has apparently added some much needed zing to the series, because under RJ it was languishing and slowing down. The final few books that RJ wrote - even by his standards - were bogged down in shite, and nothing happened. He even admitted as much before he died. Sanderson has given the series a good kick up the arse, and is actually a good writer.
Something RJ was not. I don't care what people say, but Jordan was a terrible writer. His dialogue is crap, he spends too much time talking about shite and not enough time talking about interesting things. It doesn't help that his wife was his editor, so she clearly wasn't anywhere near ruthless enough.
But, they're easy enough books to read. They're certainly not daunting; fourteen books is a lot to read simply because of the sheer number of words, and also because it's fourteen books of shite. Not because they're complicated. RJ liked to throw extra, random characters into the story without explanation, so that can be quite hard to keep track of, but that's not "depth"; it's just bad writing. Seriously, time is the thing that would stop you being able to finish WoT if you really wanted to, not that they were too complex or difficult. Someone who had lost half of their brain in a skiing accident would comprehend the tedious, predictable and utterly basic storyline.
Seriously, it's fourteen books long, and crap. If you're not already invested in it then don't waste your time.
Its not as bad as you make out Count, But the last few books that RJ wrote I'll admit where rather poor and largely just milking the whole thing. Sanderson has done a good job and I've liked his other books as well. He has at least got the story line moving again
Had a long flight and decided to buy the final volume in the series at the airport. Made the long trip more enjoyable.
As it happens, the airport where I bought the book is Salt Lake City airport, and all the copies at the bookstore were signed by Brandon Sanderson. At least, that is what the man at the bookstore told me.
As it happens, the airport where I bought the book is Salt Lake City airport, and all the copies at the bookstore were signed by Brandon Sanderson. At least, that is what the man at the bookstore told me.
Completely disagree with Count, not a clue what he is on about. RJ took the world Tolkein created and ran with it, Tolkein said his biggest regret with Lord of the Rings was that it wasn't long enough. RJ's world is more detailed in every sense, the magic system in particular is second to none in that it actually has a detailed system and not just "alakazam!"
It's also not bad writing, it's fantastic.
It's also not bad writing, it's fantastic.
Fantastic writing? It's anything but. I mean, shit, there's proof of that in this very series - the difference in quality from when Sanderson stepped in to finish it off is night and day!
And the magic system is not "second to none", Jesus. It's alright, but splitting it down the middle into "male" and "female" and then passing everything else off as "part of the Pattern" is not a detailed system. Can you explain the cards coming to life and attacking Mat in Tear as anything but "alakazam"?!
If you want a detailed magic system then the warrens in the Malazan series are very good.
And the magic system is not "second to none", Jesus. It's alright, but splitting it down the middle into "male" and "female" and then passing everything else off as "part of the Pattern" is not a detailed system. Can you explain the cards coming to life and attacking Mat in Tear as anything but "alakazam"?!
If you want a detailed magic system then the warrens in the Malazan series are very good.
They are frustratrating, for me the first 6 were great and then it got muddled. I may just use wiki to get to grips with what happened in the last few Jordan books and carry on reading from sandersons books.
Yeah Count is going way OTT. They're very entertaining books with a large cast of characters that keeps you constantly speculating at everyone's hidden motivations.
Yes the last few written by RJ were too slow. I do think Sanderson has sped it up nicely but also keep in mind he's writing the final chapters where things would happen faster anyways.
Re Matt and the cards in Tear:
Its clearly explained that as the seals on the Dark One's prison weakens his influence affects the Pattern, manifested as random "miasmas" or "bubbles of evil". These destructive incidents are a sign of the stress on the Pattern exerted by the Dark One, and are drawn to Perrin, Rand and Mat as per the ta'veren concept. Its not as detailed as the One Power stuff, but far from "alakazam".
Yes the last few written by RJ were too slow. I do think Sanderson has sped it up nicely but also keep in mind he's writing the final chapters where things would happen faster anyways.
Re Matt and the cards in Tear:
Its clearly explained that as the seals on the Dark One's prison weakens his influence affects the Pattern, manifested as random "miasmas" or "bubbles of evil". These destructive incidents are a sign of the stress on the Pattern exerted by the Dark One, and are drawn to Perrin, Rand and Mat as per the ta'veren concept. Its not as detailed as the One Power stuff, but far from "alakazam".
Yeh, I get that. It's "bubbles on the pattern" and they're drawn to Mat, but it's still alakazam. Why do bubbles on the pattern manifest as cards coming to life, or men made of sand suddenly attacking? Because RJ thought that would be cool. There's no consistency there.
Just because he provides an explanation doesn't make it detailed; it's still "it does this 'cos, y'know, magic".
I think I do have more hate for WoT then is healthy, and I imagine if I'd picked it up in my own time I'd have decided I didn't like it and moved on, but the problem is I live with a woman who thinks that the books are the most amazing series of anything ever written ever in the entire history of the universe. That kind of drives me mad.
The consistency is that the bubbles are caused by the Dark One's will to kill Perrin Rand and Matt. It manifests in different, random ways because its coming directly from Shaitan (which is just Arabic for Satan). The lack of definition with the bubbles is a result of lack of definition for the Dark One himself. All we really are told is that he's the opposite of the Creator, and thus represents evil, pure and simple. We are also picking on probably the least well defined element of the entire series.
I think I'd feel somewhat the same were I in your situation. I have trouble recommending the series to most people because of how long and occasionally tedious they can get. Being a voracious reader myself it never bothered me, but I can certainly see how it would others. Especially since you're on Lord of Chaos, brace yourself for the next few. Crown of Swords is pretty good, but from Path of Daggers to Crossroads of Twilight (8-10) is painful. Lots of smoothing skirts, politics and Faile POVs broken up by a couple of standout sections in Winter's Heart (9).
And I've finished it. Very satisfying conclusion, I couldn't put the thing down. Basically the opposite of Mass Effect. For me, a 10 year journey spanning at least 10000 pages well worth it.
Read book 1-5 and then last 3.
The others are a waste of time as nothing really happens!
Just Started Reading WoT ... and passed Gleeman Chapter. Story buildup is so much like LOTR but interesting.
As it is your 2nd favorite after ASOIAF, tell me the books 6-10 are really boring ?
5-year necro ftw.
For me 7-12 were quite boring. Then when Sanderson took over, it became amazing again. Worth persevering in my book, if you have plenty of time in your hands
I apologise for quoting this is for me to remember to look at the last two. Rothfuss is the best ever we just need the 3rd book.
This is my second time reading Wheel of time. Currently reading KoD. Mat Cauthon is possibly one of my all time favorite characters.
You can find a lot of my posts and others in fantasy reads thread. It probably has a thousand posts on WoT alone.
However, a short summary on how I liked each book:
Book 1 for most part if Fellowship of the Ring. It is good, but is is almost a carbon copy of it, with just name changes.
Book 2 and 3 deviate a lot from it and the story starts to shape on its own way. 3 is in particular unique for the genre cause the protagonist is almost exclusively shown from other people POV. There is less than 1% Rand there/
Book 4 becomes much bigger and the story expands exponentially (more characters, places, events, stories etc), then Book 5 continues from there and for me is the second best fantasy book I've ever read after A Storm of Swords. It is just perfect. Book 6 is very good too, with a great ending. Book 7 is okayish, book 8 is acceptable, books 9 and 10 are really bad, to the point that everyone is tempted to leave the saga. However the saga finds its way on book 11 which I would rate around book 7/8 level.
Then it is all Sanderson. Book 12 is the second best book in the genre, book 13 is okayish, and book 14 is very good.
There is also a prequel, which I would recommend to read not before you read book 8 (because a big character there is not present until book 7 or 8 in the main saga). I read it after book 11 (so in between Jordan's and Sanderson's books). All in all, it is a pretty awesome saga with its own highs and lows, but still very epic and definitely enjoyable.
Started reading "New Spring" on my Kindle. First time I have touched any WOT related stuff for years and it is surprising me how much I am enjoying it, like putting on old comfortable clothes. Makes me interested in how those outlier novels that Jordan talked about would have been had he lived.
I love every single Wheel of Time book, and I'll fight anyone who thinks differently.
Crossroads of Twilight is just bad. No redeemable features there.
There are some concessions to be made with regards to the quirks of his writing style and storytelling style. But it gets a lot better. The eye of the world is definitely the most children oriented.
It becomes a drag in the later books where he ends up writings three very long books for a story that only needed one book. Then it picks up again under sanderson who does a good job of the next two books. The final book was a bit of a damb squib. Might be that those were scenes hard to pull off if you aren't Jordan. Sanderson was not in his element with the multiple scenes and pacing of that book.
The early middle books are excellent.
It becomes a drag in the later books where he ends up writings three very long books for a story that only needed one book. Then it picks up again under sanderson who does a good job of the next two books. The final book was a bit of a damb squib. Might be that those were scenes hard to pull off if you aren't Jordan. Sanderson was not in his element with the multiple scenes and pacing of that book.
The early middle books are excellent.
Actually, Jordan wrote many of the sequences in AMoL completely before his death. Personally, I was quite satisfied with the final book.
I'll go as far as admitting that it is my least favourite book. But I still enjoyed it at the time, and I still read it when I do my re-reads. Mind you, I do end up skipping a fair few chapters, so it's definitely the most flawed of the bunch. But I never really could agree with the people who claimed that books X-Y are simply bad. I'll make allowances for CoT, but I do think the rest were genuinely well-written and interesting books. They can't all be as good as TDR.
We have no quarrel then
They are not 'boring', but the overall story does not progress much in the middle books. Still worth reading.
Come on. Mat/Tuon segments in CoT and KoD is awesome.
My least favourite is Winter’s Heart. Basically nothing happened there except Rand getting moody.
The pinnacle of the series is of course The Dragon Reborn.
The pinnacle of the series is of course The Dragon Reborn.