When does Mourinho's job come under threat?

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MoskvaRed

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We can't continue to blast the manager while pretending we have great players whose potential just needs to be unlocked by a managerial messiah (see England national team 1970 to 2010). We need to back the manager and Top 4 seems too crude a test to decide whether he gets more time (for one thing, the competition is stronger than last year).

However, in order to keep his job, he needs to show a clear evidence of progress in our play as well as the ability to identify the correct signings and integrate them. The latter point may be his downfall judging by what we have seen so far although it is only early November. My own hunch is that he may walk - something just doesn't feel right, like we have got a champion boxer who has had a few too many tough fights.
 

R300k

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Obviously at the time if United completely outs of top 4 race in Premier League and fails to take Europa League trophy. This is what happened and has been proved through last 3 years after SAF reign, for all United managers, no matter how close like VG did with top 4 fight until last round last year.

Individually I totally agree with the board about this policy. No United managers should be kept without winning a minimum Champion League ticket in the end of any season. It will conserve United standard, no blind trust to wrong managers, no matter how world class they are, fail to get this minimum objective then everything is meaningless. On the other view, this policy gives managers time to do all the work they can without being sacked in middle of the season, just like how bad Moyes was from the first match, he still get his chance until United officially out of top 4 race at 13-14 season. So there is still patience from the club tradition and fair also in manager s policy
 

Sarni

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:lol: at Twigg who wanted to give time to Moyes and van Gaal because the league was so incredibly strong it was not possible to do better, but when it's Mourinho that he hates, he wants him gone after two bad months.
 

Sarni

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We are doing much worse than we were doing under Moyes.
Except we feckin aren't. This is just in your brain because you loved every bit of Moyes but hate Mourinho with passion.
 

Insanity

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FIRST 16 GAMES IN CHARGE AT OLD TRAFFORD

David Moyes: W9 D4 L3
Louis van Gaal: W8 D4 L4
Jose Mourinho: W8 D3 L5

Moysie leading the shit pack.

In the league:

Moyes - P10 W5 L3 D2 GF17 GA13 - Points 17
Van Gaal - P10 W3 L3 D4 GF16 GA14 - Points 13
Jose - P10 W4 L3 D3 GF13 GA12 - Points 15
 
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Wade3

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:lol: at Twigg who wanted to give time to Moyes and van Gaal because the league was so incredibly strong it was not possible to do better, but when it's Mourinho that he hates, he wants him gone after two bad months.
Especially since the league has dramatically improved over the summer.
 

Jaybomb

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Ugh. This thread again.

Why do we keep blaming the managers? Mourinho is a proven manager and will take us to the top. But it's not gonna happen if people keep getting on his back and anticipating his sack. The majority of our issues aren't even down to him! How about we sack the majority of our squad instead? They're the ones playing on the pitch and from what I could see last night, some of them couldn't even pass wind. Our players having poor ability is not down to Mourinho.

When he came back to Chelsea in 2013, his first season was a right off. In a lot of ways, it's similar to this season for us. Back then, he brought in Eto'o and this season, he brought in Ibrahimovic. It was only until the second season when he won the league. I believe thats what will happen next season. He will be a year in the job and will know what players he needs to get and what players he needs to get rid of.

Everyone is raving on about Klopp, but he's been in the job for a year now. He's also lost his last 5 finals and had Dortmund in the relegation zone in his last season. People are quick to talk about Mourinho's form last season but they kiss Klopp's ass and choose to ignore the facts when it comes to him.

I'll be happy with top 4 and a cup this season. Even if it's just the EFL Cup. We need to be at Wembley this season. But BACK THE MANAGER.
 

Treble

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Ugh. This thread again.

Why do we keep blaming the managers? Mourinho is a proven manager and will take us to the top. But it's not gonna happen if people keep getting on his back and anticipating his sack. The majority of our issues aren't even down to him! How about we sack the majority of our squad instead? They're the ones playing on the pitch and from what I could see last night, some of them couldn't even pass wind. Our players having poor ability is not down to Mourinho.

When he came back to Chelsea in 2013, his first season was a right off. In a lot of ways, it's similar to this season for us. Back then, he brought in Eto'o and this season, he brought in Ibrahimovic. It was only until the second season when he won the league. I believe thats what will happen next season. He will be a year in the job and will know what players he needs to get and what players he needs to get rid of.

Everyone is raving on about Klopp, but he's been in the job for a year now. He's also lost his last 5 finals and had Dortmund in the relegation zone in his last season. People are quick to talk about Mourinho's form last season but they kiss Klopp's ass and choose to ignore the facts when it comes to him.

I'll be happy with top 4 and a cup this season. Even if it's just the EFL Cup. We need to be at Wembley this season. But BACK THE MANAGER.
Not true. They had (much) better results.
 

Jaybomb

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Not true. They had (much) better results.
Everyone accepted that they wouldn't win the league back then though. Mourinho even came out and said it would be the year after. And he was right.

The only people who want Mourinho sacked are rival fans who don't want to see him turn it around. Cause they know he's one of the best managers of all time and thats exactly what he's gonna do.

What they hope will happen is, we'll panic, sack Mourinho at Christmas and hire Giggs, or Tony Pulis or Pardew or something like that. The rival fans will love that. It'll be Moyes all over again for them.

There's no patience in the game anymore. Everyone loves a story.
 

Treble

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Everyone accepted that they wouldn't win the league back then though. Mourinho even came out and said it would be the year after. And he was right.

The only people who want Mourinho sacked are rival fans who don't want to see him turn it around. Cause they know he's one of the best managers of all time and thats exactly what he's gonna do.

What they hope will happen is, we'll panic, sack Mourinho at Christmas and hire Giggs, or Tony Pulis or Pardew or something like that. The rival fans will love that. It'll be Moyes all over again for them.

There's no patience in the game anymore. Everyone loves a story.
Nice to be optimistic. I'm not. It's too early to talk seriously about firing him, of course, but if things go like that till Christmas, the opposition fans will want him to stay at United as long as possible. Some of them already want him to. His stock has plummeted over the last 12 months.

Mou made Cheslea 2 compete for the title already in his first season there. They finished just 4 points off the champions. And didn't they reach the CL semis that year? They were much better than this United team. United are more like Chelsea in Mou's last season there. 6 points in 7 league games is a small catastrophe and I do not expect wins vs Swansea and Arsenal either.
 

Murray3007

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If we cant get out the group which is a big if at the moment and we are still struggling around xmas i seriously think he might go, this is a board who are motivated by money and even the chance of top 4 seems further away every game at the moment. Jose seems a bit lost at the moment for me, dont no his best team or formation struggling to no what to do with his signings, not really getting a reaction out of any players apart from Valencia and Herrera, moaning about his personal life. its looking a big mess at the moment and something needs to change and quick if Jose wants to be here for a long time, i look at the CB positions and see Rojo and Blind, i seriously think he has to look at the reserves and get one of them in the team asap if they are our only CB's options just now.
 

Wumminator

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Except we feckin aren't. This is just in your brain because you loved every bit of Moyes but hate Mourinho with passion.
We've spent about 110 million pounds more, increased the wage bill dramatically, got less points in the league and are doing a lot worse in Europe (in a worse competition)

To argue we are doing better than at the same point under Moyes seems ridiculous.
 

red4ever 79

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It doesnt > this season. He doesnt have a magic wand and we as a club have no devine right to be successful. It is going to take hard work, change of personnel. I have faith in Mourinho. In hindsight we have recruited badly. However hindsight is a wonderful thing. When we signed Depay, and Schneiderlein and BFS we had high hopes. Unfortunately they have turned out to be major flops. Add in to that a declining Rooney and Carrick (two players we have relied upon over the last decade) and you get a sense that we are in a major transition phase.
 

Wade3

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You what?

:lol:

How on Earth has the league dramatically improved?
Oh there was just this little thing called a massive TV deal that caused several teams to break their transfer records. Several top clubs have spent plenty to improve their already stacked rosters as well, with City investing even more than us.

Given how much time you spend talking up the relative strength of the PL in Europe, you should know better.
 

Cassady

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My clock is ticking on him. I'd give him until christmas to get some wins. I'm sick and tired of his priority list. He don't understand the concept of being a huge club. We're suppose to dominate no matter how many games we need to play.

Games coming up until new year.

Swansea
Arsenal
Feyenoord
West ham
West ham
Everton
Russian club
Spurs
Palace
West Brom
Sunderland
Boro

Anything less than a win in every single one of those games is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. Spurs and Arsenal can warrant a draw, the rest is undebatable. He can not complain about anything.
You dont ask for much do you ?
 

Cina

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I don't post in the FF's anymore but I feel it's really important to in this case because it really needs to be pointed out for the umpteenth time in this thread how much of a fecking hypocritical clown you are @Twigginater
 

Kush

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It's unbelievable how short memories fan have, LvG revisionism is in full swing again as if they have forgotten the mind numbing, painfully boring football which we played under him. Can they explain to me what his 'philosophy' actually was? What was our identity and where we were heading? The thing which we'll associate with LVG tenure is probably Rashford's emergence and youth players he blooded but the only reason Rashford got a chance in first place was because our six forward options in Rooney, Martial, Depay, Fellaini, Young and Keane were all injured and likes of Borthwick Jackson, Paddy McNair, Tyler Blackett, Donald Love, Varela got so many minutes in first team was because he gutted the squad to ridiculous levels. I would give LvG a lot more credit if he actually saw Rooney was past his best to lead the line, benched him and played Rashford instead but it wasn't so I don't get these masterstrokes which are attributed to LvG.

I won't even bother to waste my energy in trying to recall how dire we were under David Moyes as if our fans have completely washed away the bollocking which we received on a weekly basis from our rivals. Losing 3-0 at home to both Liverpool and City, 3-1 at Chelsea with a past it Eto'o sticking a hat-trick, 4-1 humiliation at Etihad where DDG saved further 3-4 clear goals. Even Everton did a double over us. Both managers were given enough rope to cling onto but it was abundantly clear by the time that rope was cut that we were going nowhere under them.

We are in a position now where we have no option but to stick with Mourinho because there are no other alternatives out there, Ancelotti is signed up at Bayern for further 2 seasons, ditto with Pep at City, Klopp just signed an extension and he seems to be madly in love with them. Simeone is the only one but he has reduced his contract by a season as he plans to takeover Inter in 2 years time. Inevitably, the name which will crop up is Giggs and I believe enough has been spoken and written about his credentials as to why he would be a complete and utter disaster here.

Now is not the time for board and our fans to panic and it annoys me greatly that OP considering who he is has started this thread not even 3 months into the season as if he has forgotten that LvG's United were languishing 10th in the table this time in his first season when we eventually finished fourth. How can anyone watch us play and not see the improvements when compared to Moyes and LvG's regime? Are people really that swayed by statistics that they are oblivious to what is being played in front of them?

Mourinho can still turn it around, there are enough glimpses we've seen in our performances that results will come but it'll be much more difficult to climb up the table as there are at the very least 5 clubs who look to be in a better shape than us.
 

Parma Dewol

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Surely Mourinho's job came under threat the moment he signed the contract?

United have made it clear in recent seasons that if a manager doesn't get into the top four, he will be given the boot. Though everyone likes to think that United aren't a sacking a club, "we must stand by our manager etc.", the club has set the precedent and the moment it becomes mathematically impossible for us to make the Champions League, Jose's contract will be worth zilch.

I should add that I personally think that a manager should be able to see out his contract, but United clearly don't see it that way and as a consequence Jose will always be under threat.
 

Mihai

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Are we close to it now?

We've got to stand by our managers but when does it become the point of no return?

As of now, I'm just so depressed. I wish we had sorted ourselves out properly. Why are we so shit?
Stop threating him!
 

kundalini

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Because of his track-record, I'd suggest he gets 2 full seasons minimum, unless his behaviour is so unacceptable that he simply has to go. I think this season is likely to be a write-off due to errors made in the summer. That puts a lot of pressure on him to produce next season.

If we finish outside the top 4 this season and next season then I think he'll be fired. If we finish outside the top 4 this season, make the top 4 but don't really challenge for the title next season, then he'll need a strong title challenge in his 3rd season to survive.

The big difference between Mourinho and Moyes and LVG is that he has won PL titles so the assumption is that he will eventually figure out what the problems are and resolve them. There was plenty of faith in LVG due to his success in other countries, until it was obvious he was clueless in the PL; which happened around Christmas in his 2nd season. Moyes' achievements at Everton weren't sufficient to give him much credibility here.

Worth noting that Redcafe, most fans and the media were generally enthusiastic about Mourinho's summer transfer activity.
 
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K2K

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He's hated him for years and thinks he's a total cnut who doesn't deserve to be at United. He's not got the honesty and integrity of Moyes who Twiggy loved to support
Anyone that takes @Twigg seriously deserves to be angered. I learnt a long time ago that he gets a kick from winding reactions and will always go for the opposite direction of everyone else just to get maximum effect.

Sorry Twigg, couldnt resisit.
 

GazTheLegend

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Keep him 2 seasons. If there's no improvement next year or even regression, I don't know what we even begin to do.

Things will hopefully get better soon.

So - for now? Stand by our new manager.
 

Sarni

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We've spent about 110 million pounds more, increased the wage bill dramatically, got less points in the league and are doing a lot worse in Europe (in a worse competition)

To argue we are doing better than at the same point under Moyes seems ridiculous.
At the same point under Moyes we were still cruising on the back of the league title from the season before, and our points tally was similar to what it is this season. Mourinho took over a team that was struggling and needed to change plenty to get them back to winning ways, it has not gone very well so far but I fail to understand why you would want him gone when you wanted to keep Moyes after a year of atrocity and van Gaal after 2 years of terrible football, other than you loved Moyes to bits while you hate everything about Mourinho.

Also, you said we were MUCH BETTER under Moyes, which is your typical hyperbole because you absolutely despise current manager and want to show how awfully abysmal he is, yet we're barely even worse points wise.

It's really nothing more than your prejudice. Can't say I'm surprised though.
 

Sarni

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Oh there was just this little thing called a massive TV deal that caused several teams to break their transfer records. Several top clubs have spent plenty to improve their already stacked rosters as well, with City investing even more than us.

Given how much time you spend talking up the relative strength of the PL in Europe, you should know better.
But his narrative of amazing, incredible Premier League does not fit this thread!
 

Chuckazulu

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It should become under threat when we are still hopeless second half of next season. I still think he's the right man for this cursed job
 

GBBQ

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Surely Mourinho's job came under threat the moment he signed the contract?

United have made it clear in recent seasons that if a manager doesn't get into the top four, he will be given the boot. Though everyone likes to think that United aren't a sacking a club, "we must stand by our manager etc.", the club has set the precedent and the moment it becomes mathematically impossible for us to make the Champions League, Jose's contract will be worth zilch.

I should add that I personally think that a manager should be able to see out his contract, but United clearly don't see it that way and as a consequence Jose will always be under threat.
United are paying him big money, he is being heavily backed in the transfer market, there has to be some sort of performance related expectations

We're not a sacking club all of a sudden, United moved LVG and Moyes on because they were wrong for the club. Moyes was clueless and LVG was too rigid in a philosophy that was not working.

If Mourinho gets to that point where his management is causing issues he will go, its what happened at Chelsea. That being said, its not a conversation we should be having at this point in his tenure.
 

rocks13

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Don't understand this thread. Does the OP not realize that we had a lot of shots against Burnley?
 

sincher

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I'll probably get crucified for this, but in my slightly advancing years part of me is a little bit amused at how we're still so dodgy despite all the spending and bringing in Mourinho. I think this is rooted in generally having despised Jose for so long - I just can't warm to him at all. He is a miserable man, presiding over a dodgy team with some decent players but little togetherness. Ha!

I suspect I'll go back to being a big fan when we start building a team properly, and have a proper balls out manager or someone who gets us playing with more panache.
 

SammyUnited_83

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We've spent about 110 million pounds more, increased the wage bill dramatically, got less points in the league and are doing a lot worse in Europe (in a worse competition)

To argue we are doing better than at the same point under Moyes seems ridiculous.
Totally agree with you.

Hiring Jose and spending the money we did, on those players, raised expectation - he can't get a free pass because we are creating more chances. He is making odd decisions, fecking around with the squad and looks miserable (in fact he looks as miserable as Moyes did in the April / May).

Just stick Rashford and Martial upfront, buy a decent winger, buy a world class CB (why we still rely on Smalling, Blind, Rojo I will never know) and get TFM back in the team.

Zlatan is shit and Jose should take full responsibility for bringing him in, painfully overrated, came from a shit league (where Super Mario scores goals for fun), and is on a wedge of cash.
 

buckooo1978

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The worrying thing for Mourinho was that last night it looked like the players didnt care

He said as much himself after the match and you'd have to wonder about his relationship with the players

Id put it down to a one off given the fantastic performance against Burnley which deserved a few goals

Mourinho does need to be careful and he does need to start getting the team to play more consistently

If he did lose the dressing room....its curtains sadly.... hoping it doesnt come to that
 

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failing to make top four has seen United's previous two managers sacked, so i suspect it'd become a discussion point if United fail to finish fourth which should be a bare minimum for a club of United's size and stature.
 

Trigg

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Another 2 or 3 transfer windows for me. At the very least.

This group of players are the problem. Talent in there but attitude for a few seasons now has stunk.
 

Pogue Mahone

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failing to make top four has seen United's previous two managers sacked, so i suspect it'd become a discussion point if United fail to finish fourth which should be a bare minimum for a club of United's size and stature.
That's the line in the sand but I'd like to think the decision will be a bit more nuanced then that. Big difference to floundering to fourth in a league full of under-performing teams - like we almost did last year - and being squeezed out by four rival clubs all having excellent seasons.

In that latter scenario, finishing outside the top four would be fine providing there are clear signs of progress and improvement over the course of this season.
 

Treble

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That's the line in the sand but I'd like to think the decision will be a bit more nuanced then that. Big difference to floundering to fourth in a league full of under-performing teams - like we almost did last year - and being squeezed out by four rival clubs all having excellent seasons.

In that latter scenario, finishing outside the top four would be fine providing there are clear signs of progress and improvement over the course of this season.
I agree. Not making the top 4 isn't so bad if we make progress in our performances. I'd give him another year even if we finish midtable (8-10th) but there is a clear progress in the final months of the season.
 

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Not Mourinho's biggest fan (him being your manager has made it difficult for me to continue to root for United and decreased my Caf participation a bit) but sacking him or thinking about this in this early stages is madness. I'd give him till the end of the second season. It's a bit of a conundrum for me. I dislike Mourinho but I'd love to see Twiggnater proven wrong. The only joy i get from Mourinho managing United is Twigg's incessant whining
 

Wumminator

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Not Mourinho's biggest fan (him being your manager has made it difficult for me to continue to root for United and decreased my Caf participation a bit) but sacking him or thinking about this in this early stages is madness. I'd give him till the end of the second season. It's a bit of a conundrum for me. I dislike Mourinho but I'd love to see Twiggnater proven wrong. The only joy i get from Mourinho managing United is Twigg's incessant whining
I'd love to be proven wrong as well. I'm glad you're getting some joy from this!
 

Sly

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I'd love to be proven wrong as well. I'm glad you're getting some joy from this!
Fair play mate :lol: well i'm in the same position as you tbf since i dislike my manager Jorge Jesus since his Benfica days, so nowadays i got have some joy from these littles things. Been a pretty miserable year só far for Sporting fans
 

SammyUnited_83

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I agree. Not making the top 4 isn't so bad if we make progress in our performances. I'd give him another year even if we finish midtable (8-10th) but there is a clear progress in the final months of the season.
No way he stays if we finish there.

Regardless of the opposition, the money we have spent, on top of the squad we had, top 4 is the bare minimum for me.
 
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