So your excuse for Wenger's Arsenal not winning a league title or CL in god knows how long is down to money?
When will Arsenal hire a new manager?
- Thread starter Peanut Butter
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I wouldn't say it's an excuse. Only one team can win each year. The teams who win usually have the best players. The best players usually play for the teams with the most money. It's rarely more complicated than that.
This season they will be out of top four finally, and Wenger will be sacked. He has been benefitting from being the most experienced manager in the PL by far, and mismanagement at other clubs. But now the leagues is full of world class managers and the top 4 won't be that simple.
So you're happy with Wenger as manager? Is there anything you would like him to change?
(Not criticism, genuine question
)The Board won't say that because the Arsenal board has been, ever since the Stan Kroenke takeover, full of money men with no footballing men anywhere on site. One only has to look at Kroenke's history of owning American sports teams to know he doesn't care about trophies, he cares about growing the asset value of his sports portfolio.
The problem is the disconnect between what the board wants and what the fans want. The board would much prefer finishing 3, 4, 3, 4 and never dropping out of top 4. The fans would prefer to win the league even if that means the league finishes look like 1, 7, 2, 6. For me its not even a question. I would much rather win the league and then finish out of top 4. But the board has the exact opposite goal.
So as long as Wenger gets top 4 there is zero pressure on him from the board. Its why we continue to make absolutely baffling economically inefficient decisions - like giving Mertesacker and Cazorla contract extensions, paying Arteta player wages to train as a coach for City, giving large pay raises to Walcott, Wilshere that they haven't earned, spending decent money on players like Joel Campbell and Lucas Perez and then exiling them to almost no playing time (and in Campbell's case why the hell didn't we sell him after the world cup when his value was high and Wenger didn't rate him anyway), not freshening up the squad last summer when all we bought was Cech, allowing his teachers pets to start no matter what form they are in, the continuing massive injury problems that have afflicted Wenger's squads for 12+ years- Ramsey should have been nowhere near starting yesterday with his hamstring, its just ridiculously poor squad management how after 12 years we still haven't sorted out when the freaking rest semi-injured players. It all adds up to the squad growing complacent and stale and its obvious to any fan.
The only hope is that the remaining reluctant Wenger In finally throw in the towel and Wenger starts to feel pressure from the fans or even better the few minority shareholders we have left. Wenger has in the past felt hurt when the minority shareholders have criticized performance on the pitch instead of just focusing on share prices as Wenger believes they should.
Its not even fun or exciting for me to watch Arsenal anymore because its just groundhog day for the last 7 years. i get more excited to watch a classic 1970s match I haven't seen than to watch Wenger's team nowadays which is really sad. He should have retired after the last FA Cup win. Was the perfect time for him to move on.
Thanks for sharing - interesting stuff.
I do feel for you man. I used to have a huge respect for Arsenal. These days I find them a bit of a joke.
For all the Man Utd fans who are saying Arsenal fans should be wary about how Utd ended up need to consider somethings.
Under Fergie you guys were basically winning the league every other season and reaching the far stages of the UCL. So for you guys it's been a big blow from competing every season and winning things every other season at the least to now finishing 5th/6th and trying to get into the top4.
We at Arsenal never had the sort of dominance you guys had under SAF with Wenger. We aren't winning things every other season and we certainly aren't winning the title anytime soon. For Utd they had everything to lose with SAF leaving whereas with Arsenal we only have top 4 to lose. I'm sure nearly every Arsenal fan is sick of having a repeat of last years season every season where we bottle it and end up playing well when there's nothing to gain except top 4.
At this point I'd be happy for Wenger to leave and for us to drop out of the top 4 because at least it's something new and different. I'd rather drop out of the top 4 for 4 seasons if under a new manager we end up winning the league in the 5th. As it stands we wont win the league again under Wenger. There's no point of Arsenal if every season we're just playing for top 4 and getting to the last 16 of the UCL.
You guys were at the top and so the risk was extremely high for you whereas we've never been at the top for over 10 years now. Nothing will change for the better or the worse until Wenger leaves. I'm willing to take that chance to see something different for once instead of the same old stuff.
Under Fergie you guys were basically winning the league every other season and reaching the far stages of the UCL. So for you guys it's been a big blow from competing every season and winning things every other season at the least to now finishing 5th/6th and trying to get into the top4.
We at Arsenal never had the sort of dominance you guys had under SAF with Wenger. We aren't winning things every other season and we certainly aren't winning the title anytime soon. For Utd they had everything to lose with SAF leaving whereas with Arsenal we only have top 4 to lose. I'm sure nearly every Arsenal fan is sick of having a repeat of last years season every season where we bottle it and end up playing well when there's nothing to gain except top 4.
At this point I'd be happy for Wenger to leave and for us to drop out of the top 4 because at least it's something new and different. I'd rather drop out of the top 4 for 4 seasons if under a new manager we end up winning the league in the 5th. As it stands we wont win the league again under Wenger. There's no point of Arsenal if every season we're just playing for top 4 and getting to the last 16 of the UCL.
You guys were at the top and so the risk was extremely high for you whereas we've never been at the top for over 10 years now. Nothing will change for the better or the worse until Wenger leaves. I'm willing to take that chance to see something different for once instead of the same old stuff.
Yes I am happy with him. I would like to see another striker brought in, like Wenger tried when he bid for Suarez. I would like us to take the league cup more seriously. Beyond that, I have no complaints. Arsenal is at a financial disadvantage to most of its direct rivals and the results reflect that.So you're happy with Wenger as manager? Is there anything you would like him to change?
(Not criticism, genuine question
I'd imagine it's the board that won't let him sign the players he wants and with each passing year of the same restraints Arsenal have fallen away as an elite/attractive club.
You can spend more than the likes of Spurs and Liverpool.
Surely Wenger can work magic and win more than he does?
I mean, most squads with the likes of Ozil, Alexis, Cech etc should be at least taking the league title to the wire, last day of the season?
We won league titles without spending huge amounts under Fergie.
For me, the issue is that Wenger is too stubborn and is always too content with his current squad of players. Treading water seems good enough for him.
I respect your differing opinions of course.
He's content with treading water because that's what the board wants from him.
Now as i've said, i don't believe he could win the title even if the board pushed for that. Finishing 10 points behind leicester fecking city is proof of that. He's simply too old, no longer has that edge that top managers need to win the big trophies
Which seasons?
Arsenal's financial disadvantage isn't actually that large. Even ignoring Leicester, Spurs and Liverpool have come closer to winning the PL in the last five years than Arsenal have and both have a smaller wage bill.
Didn't we win it after buying only Carrick in the summer? My memory isn't the best.
Fergie didn't throw money around like City and Chelsea did.
It's just very obvious he's not going to win a league now. Years ago I thought if they stay steady long enough they'll reach a position they can spend more and start to challenge again. I also felt finally ending their trophy drought may give them the confidence and momentum to take the next step, I think it was definitely the right decision to give him another season after the FA cup win.
But it's not come to fruition so there's almost no reason to hold onto him anymore. I guess they're worried about dropping out the top 4 but they're going to have to take a risk to win the league again.
But it's not come to fruition so there's almost no reason to hold onto him anymore. I guess they're worried about dropping out the top 4 but they're going to have to take a risk to win the league again.
That summer gave many an ominous feeling. We had just won the FA Cup for second time, looked like finally ready to keep improving and challenging at a higher level again but then Wenger chose to buy no outfield players. To me that truly meant the end of ambition for Wenger - or at the least a delusional faith in his favored players that led to him systematically overrating this generation of his projects. Some of us could not believe we did not continue to freshen up the squad that summer with at least one or two crucial signings. Even if the staunchest Wenger Ins were scratching their heads last summer at our failure to buy anyone when it was clear we had dozens of millions in the bank to spend and even our Board was bragging about how much we could spend. Why didn't he at least continue buying one world class or almost world class player last summer? Its almost as if Wenger didn't buy any outfield players just to prove Ivan Gazidis and the fans wrong or something. Like just because Gazidis said we could spend big now, Wenger wanted to go out and prove he could win without spending big and trusting his favored players. It was too obvious we should have bought a striker or holding mid last summer. Plenty of new players emerging. If Wenger can't find them before RBL, Monaco, Tottenham, Atletico and Sevilla then he isn't doing his job keeping the scouting team on point.
Just because he was the only player bought that summer doesn't mean Sir Froggie won without spending a ton of money. That team was anchored by a 30 million defender (in 2002!) and a player bought for 25 million as a teenager, whilst Ronaldo, Saha, Giggs, Neville, Van Der Sar and Scholes all made more than healthy wages.
I think an equally interesting question is who Arsenal's next manager will be. Ancelotti? Tuchel? who else?
Max Allegri
Beat me to it.
He'll want and get considerable funds to shake up the squad. Can see one or two high profile malcontents leaving and being replaced by some genuine class players.
Good point.
We actually don't spend more than Liverpool if you compare over the last 4 years we've spent about 240m, Liverpool have spent 315m, Spurs about 240m.
And I could turn that around:
"I mean, most squads with the likes of Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Mkhitaryan etc should be at least taking the league title to the wire, last day of the season?"
Also Alexis, Ozil and Cech are a tad overrated. Alexis looks great in highlight reels but he often loses the ball by overdribbling or passing to the opposition. Ozil was great last year but didn't score enough. Now he's started scoring more but hasn't played well this season. Cech is older and letting in goals he wouldn't have in years gone by. They're all good players but none of them will drag you into a title race.
Also compared to Arsenal Fergie did spend huge amounts. The core of your squad in Rooney/Ferdinand were record deals. You got CR7 because you could outbid us.
Thanks
I'd like Allegri tbh
But any of Allegri, Simeone, Ancelotti and Tuchel would do. We're either getting Bould or Howe though I guarantee it.
Knowing our greedy board, yep.
Wenger has been at the club how many years now?
There's simply no excuse. He should have established Arsenal as THE team to beat in the PL.
Arsenal's board won't sack Wenger. I don't understand why's this so hard for most people to understand. He will leave when he's ready simply because he's earned the right to do that based on his longevity and what he's done for the club over the past 2 decades. You're looking at his position at Arsenal from a simplistic managerial point of view but he's more than just a manager to Arsenal FC.
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All things remaining equal, it's easy for any club to do that. Football isn't like that anymore where players stay at clubs and or managers stay more than 3 seasons. Changing either one of those variables would affect any football team; some more than others. Leicester had basically the same team that got promoted to the one that won the title, would they have won last season without hiring Ranieri?
Your beef is with the board and its relationship with the manager. I honestly don't think the board at that club loves football as much as their reserved seating at the Emirates.
Think how much extra money Kroenke would have to spend to beat City and Chelsea to the best players. We'd have to pay premium wages and then up the salaries of every other player at the club too. Add in the huge transfer fees and you're up to a lot of money each season to have a shot (no guarantee) of a league title.
As it stands we are getting top four, do well in domestic cups and fairly well in ECL. Arsenal turnover is very high and it's an excellent profit-making enterprise for Kroenke. He's probably looked at the numbers and decided that the risk of all that extra spend for not very much more revenue if the title is won, is just not worth it.
Fans don't care about the money side and just want wins, and Wenger can't exactly make him put his hands in his pockets more. So we are where we are. But you can all put it down to mentality and whatnot as that's funnier. Unless we get some rich sugar daddy then things aren't going to change.
Wenger leaving would be an absolute disaster for Arsenal. I don't see any replacement doing any better than he has with the current resources and I don't see any new manager getting much more money to spend than Wenger gets now.
As it stands we are getting top four, do well in domestic cups and fairly well in ECL. Arsenal turnover is very high and it's an excellent profit-making enterprise for Kroenke. He's probably looked at the numbers and decided that the risk of all that extra spend for not very much more revenue if the title is won, is just not worth it.
Fans don't care about the money side and just want wins, and Wenger can't exactly make him put his hands in his pockets more. So we are where we are. But you can all put it down to mentality and whatnot as that's funnier. Unless we get some rich sugar daddy then things aren't going to change.
Wenger leaving would be an absolute disaster for Arsenal. I don't see any replacement doing any better than he has with the current resources and I don't see any new manager getting much more money to spend than Wenger gets now.
Even Wenger himself blamed the Watford defeat on the poor mentality of the players.
Can't wait to play the Europa League with you
I think Moyes gave Arsene a couple more years.
Over the last 5 years, borussia dortmund, atletico madrid and juventus have all managed to build better teams than arsenal with less resources.
I agree with you that the biggest problem is with the owner, but at this point, i think wenger is part of the problem, too. Arsenal could do better with a better manager and a better structure in place. Hire a competent football man like monchi, let him revamp the scouting network, hire the new manager and sign the players. Arsenal have enough resources to win the premier league as it is. They just need someone better than wenger at using those resources.
And the end of this season.
Yeah but none of them have won the Premier League, have they?
What do you know about the scouting network? Some of you lot just amaze me with the stuff you come out with.
It's seriously time they find a new manager. I respect Wenger alot but I'm baffled as to why he hasn't gracefully resigned yet. He would probably regain some respect from the anti-Wenger crowd if he did so aswell.
The way it's going is not good though. He'll probably be sacked after losing Ozil and Sanchez on top of a poor season. That wouldn't be a good way to go.
Arsenal fans must be fuming, well they are (Arsenal TV
). They've missed the opportunity over the past decade to replace Wenger with a fresh charismatic new manager. They could be in a totally different position to the one they are in now.
The way it's going is not good though. He'll probably be sacked after losing Ozil and Sanchez on top of a poor season. That wouldn't be a good way to go.
Arsenal fans must be fuming, well they are (Arsenal TV
). They've missed the opportunity over the past decade to replace Wenger with a fresh charismatic new manager. They could be in a totally different position to the one they are in now.I know arsenal have not signed the best players they could. That means the scouting network either didn't do a good enough job, or the manager didn't trust them enough. Either way, they could have done better