When will match going fans crack?

[atticus finch]

If after the shit we've been served after all these years warrant "a bit of Glazer discontent", then I'm deeply ashamed of our match going fans, and, quite frankly, believe we actually deserve what we're going through.
They like to refer to fans who don't have the privilege to watch the games in loco as armchair supporters, but they are the ones making us all look like fools.
I'd rather a thousand times be called an armchair supporter than a top red. Top reds are the ultimate Glazer enablers.

I find it difficult to believe that any United fan would criticise match day fans with phrases like "deeply ashamed", "making us look like fools" and "Glazer enablers".

My advice to you sir, is to get out of your armchair and go and protest at OT or Mayfair. or fly a plane over Old Trafford with "Woodward Out" or some similar cerebral rent - a - quote. But do something over and above blaming everybody else from the comfort of your chaise longue, you contribute nothing to the well being of the team or the club but you feel entitled to blame everyone else, including those who actually turn up to support the team and the club come rain or shine...

 

[Le Red]

I find it difficult to believe that any United fan would criticise match day fans with phrases like "deeply ashamed", "making us look like fools" and "Glazer enablers".

My advice to you sir, is to get out of your armchair and go and protest at OT or Mayfair. or fly a plane over Old Trafford with "Woodward Out" or some similar cerebral rent - a - quote. But do something over and above blaming everybody else from the comfort of your chaise longue, you contribute nothing to the well being of the team or the club but you feel entitled to blame everyone else, including those who actually turn up to support the team and the club come rain or shine...

Believe me sir, if I lived there, I certainly would protest. Shame on me for living halfway across the world.
I did make the cross and watched MU once in my life though, and how lucky of me, it was vs Swansea in 2013. How surprised I was to see that, regardless of the epic historic background that game had, a handful of Swansea fans completely dominated the atmosphere. So let's not pretend the OT crowd is that awesome to begin with.
You are right, though, when you say that I contribute nothing. What can I do besides the odd rant in the Caf? Feck all. But the locals have way more presence than any overseas fan could ever expect to have, and do nothing with it but to play along with the absolute farce the Glazers have turned the team into.
Tell me, is there really hot red blood running in their veins? Because it doesn't feel like it does. I've never, ever, seem such a great club dismantled like it has been, with the supporters, the people who were supposed to defend it, watching passively and dumbfounded. Would it kill them to participate in a protest just once? Or to choose one minute per game to boo the cursed owners and their lackey?
As things stand, we are driving in relegation lane, and the reaction of the fans is shrugging their shoulders and saying "life is funny eh?"
I'm not asking anyone to stop supporting the team, the support must go on regardless, but it's hardly enough when there are entities acting to leech the club out of it's life. In this situation, combat must ensue.
And to clear any confusion, I'm not criticizing the support to the team. Hell, I support it too, you know, I haven't abandoned it even though it has become a major source of frustration, to the point that I'm here spending my time writing this instead of doing something good for myself, in the hope that maybe I'll be one drop in a tsunami to be released upon the culprits that defile MUFC. But that's it, it's just a drop, but the resident fans could be one massive fecking wave.

 

[Shane88]

"Incredibly loyal" my fecking arse.

Toxic cnuts tortured Fellaini for years and all he ever did was try his best.

 

[morbidsaint]

Never, hopefully. Our away fans are awesome.

 

[Rood]

Believe me sir, if I lived there, I certainly would protest. Shame on me for living halfway across the world.
I did make the cross and watched MU once in my life though, and how lucky of me, it was vs Swansea in 2013. How surprised I was to see that, regardless of the epic historic background that game had, a handful of Swansea fans completely dominated the atmosphere. So let's not pretend the OT crowd is that awesome to begin with.
You are right, though, when you say that I contribute nothing. What can I do besides the odd rant in the Caf? Feck all. But the locals have way more presence than any overseas fan could ever expect to have, and do nothing with it but to play along with the absolute farce the Glazers have turned the team into.
Tell me, is there really hot red blood running in their veins? Because it doesn't feel like it does. I've never, ever, seem such a great club dismantled like it has been, with the supporters, the people who were supposed to defend it, watching passively and dumbfounded. Would it kill them to participate in a protest just once? Or to choose one minute per game to boo the cursed owners and their lackey?
As things stand, we are driving in relegation lane, and the reaction of the fans is shrugging their shoulders and saying "life is funny eh?"
I'm not asking anyone to stop supporting the team, the support must go on regardless, but it's hardly enough when there are entities acting to leech the club out of it's life. In this situation, combat must ensue.
And to clear any confusion, I'm not criticizing the support to the team. Hell, I support it too, you know, I haven't abandoned it even though it has become a major source of frustration, to the point that I'm here spending my time writing this instead of doing something good for myself, in the hope that maybe I'll be one drop in a tsunami to be released upon the culprits that defile MUFC. But that's it, it's just a drop, but the resident fans could be one massive fecking wave.

I suppose you missed the mass protests in 2005 and again in 2010? what difference did they make? not much - apart from the club cutting all communication with fan groups and the atmosphere going downhill as a result (as you witnessed in 2013).

So its basically clear by now that protests are not going to make much difference and in fact the Glazers are in a far stronger position financially now than they were back in 2005 or 10. So lately there has been a change of tactics with closer ties between fan groups and the club - if you came back you would see vast improvements in the atmosphere (in certain areas anyway) as a result.

many fans like yourself dont understand that the priorities and viewpoint of a matchgoer are often different - to you watching a winning and entertaining team is probably all that matters whereas for many season ticket holders having a good atmosphere and singing along with your mates is the no1 priority

 

[Tel074]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

 

[Tel074]

I wanted to create a thread for the same but I believe a bump here could suffice.

I watched the Arsenal Vs. Southampton game and saw that almost the entire stadium was voicing their displeasure on the state of the team and it only seems like a matter of time before its all over for Emery. We are sitting here, below Arsenal, with not a shred of protest towards the manager. And this is a club we don't even consider to be close to what we want to compete with.

It is understandable that there is a lot of anger towards Woodward who is the common denominator across our numerous failures, but when are going to accept that our manager also needs to be someone who can make the team greater than the sum of individual players.

I genuinely believe that our fans need to be ruthless and demanding with the club if we have any ambitions of returning to the top. We are in danger of becoming the club which will soon start believing (or already have) that the "top 4 trophy" is good enough for us. If that means a quick churn of managers, then so be it. Acceptance of our fans or "What could Ole do when the players are so shit?" etc. are arguments which just displaces blame with no real actions being taken. But we need to have the mentality of a top club if we want to return to being one. And for that, everyone, including and especially the fans, need to be demanding.

Arsenal fans are demanding yet they have been shit for over 10 years ? Arsenal fans are a disgrace their own home ground looks like a awful place to play football for a Arsenal player . They treated their greatest ever manager shockingly bad they boo their own players they tonight celebrated getting beat .
Is that how you want us to be demanding?

 

[Tel074]

Supporting United is all I know. First game in 1966 at 6 years old. I went to a local school, learned all the songs and the history, travelled to many away games with my Dad when we went down in 74 and have been a season ticket holder for 33 consecutive years. Supporting the team and the club through highs and the many lows was what people generally did. The United following was mostly local and very hardcore.

In all those years, I have been frustrated at times but I have never booed a United player at OT. Might have had a good moan in a pub after the game but always supported the team on the pitch. I have also never joined one of the protest groups or protested about the club or the club's owners, even though I might feel disgusted with what they have done to the club.

Some will disagree but if you supported the team through the 70s and 80s, you got used to us punching below our weight. It wasn't always a pleasure to watch the football but it was always a privilege to go to OT and support the team. The support base has changed though. Supporters who go to games or support the club from a distance are very different. There is certainly a sense of entitlement in some of our modern support base that wasn't there before but that is for a different thread.

Very well said ... You are 100% spot on

 

[Nickelodeon]

Arsenal fans are demanding yet they have been shit for over 10 years ? Arsenal fans are a disgrace their own home ground looks like a awful place to play football for a Arsenal player . They treated their greatest ever manager shockingly bad they boo their own players they tonight celebrated getting beat .
Is that how you want us to be demanding?

It is an example used in this of a club who are on a wretched run of form and still above us in the table. At least they are striving to improve while we continue to find one positive or the other for a shocking run of performances.

You can’t fault them for how Wenger ultimately left considering that he spend close to 14 years without a Premier League title and had been shown enough amount of loyalty. I never condone booing of individual players and never will.

My whole point being that as a club, we are way too lenient. We had a similar run with LVG in 2015 when we were winless for 6 or 7 games near mid December and had been eliminated from the UCL. Still, we persisted with him and finished outside of top 4 and now again we’re in danger of having another season as a write off. And we’re currently worse off them what we were at a similar stage last year and there was a huge amount of pressure on Mourinho then while Olé seems relatively comfortable. Are our standards declining further?

Just for fun, what is your opinion? How do you see us going back to the top? Or are you also like one of those fans (especially in this thread) who are just happy to watch the match with their mates and consider it a privilege no matter what the result is?

 

[Tel074]

It is an example used in this of a club who are on a wretched run of form and still above us in the table. At least they are striving to improve while we continue to find one positive or the other for a shocking run of performances.

You can’t fault them for how Wenger ultimately left considering that he spend close to 14 years without a Premier League title and had been shown enough amount of loyalty. I never condone booing of individual players and never will.

My whole point being that as a club, we are way too lenient. We had a similar run with LVG in 2015 when we were winless for 6 or 7 games near mid December and had been eliminated from the UCL. Still, we persisted with him and finished outside of top 4 and now again we’re in danger of having another season as a write off. And we’re currently worse off them what we were at a similar stage last year and there was a huge amount of pressure on Mourinho then while Olé seems relatively comfortable. Are our standards declining further?

Just for fun, what is your opinion? How do you see us going back to the top? Or are you also like one of those fans (especially in this thread) who are just happy to watch the match with their mates and consider it a privilege no matter what the result is?

No I'm not happy making a effort to get to Manchester for matches to watch my team not compete but this is not the managers fault ..
All I read on here is anti Ole posts now not for one second am I suggesting he's the Messiah but some of the accusations chucked at him on here is disgraceful and I wonder do some of our so called fans enjoy us being shit ..


What happened in the summer has been needed for a long time . Ole has got rid of alot of deadwood and we all know he has more of that to do but for the 1st time since Ferguson left I actually feel as a club we are starting to move forwards . Will Ole finish the job he's been giving to start ? It's hugely debateable but it's not all doom and gloom like people on here would have us believe..

This clear out had to happen at some stage to allow us to move forward. I personally don't trust Ed or the Glazer family to finish what we have started but that's another argument. If we do not sign at least one in January and then around 4 or 5 next summer then in my eyes we have our answer that they don't really care if we challenge for trophies anymore .

 

[Decomposing In Paris]

I think threads like this (but many others are much worse) really illuminate the way in which a number of us relate to the club. For some of us it's a transactional relationship - "I paid for entertainment, and to win... and I didn't get what I paid for". For some people it's more about bragging rights, whether that be knowing more than the manager, other fans, or taking down their Liverpool supporting college. At the other extreme we have fans for whom the club is part of the family. There's plenty of space in the middle, and I'm not interested in telling people what kind of fan they should be... but the negativity on here can be so ridiculously bad. People like to justify it as constructive criticism, as though they are doing the club a favour by whining and complaining. It's not though, because they aren't personally in a position of influence. They have as much right as I do to be here, but this place just isn't that pleasant to visit anymore, I'm not entirely sure why I keep coming back to be honest, it doesn't have a positive impact of my life.

 

[zenith]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

Absolutely agree with this.

Perhaps it's a question of when our internet based fans will change. Those who've seen us during the 80's and 70's have developed an almost family like closeness with the club. The way they speak of the club is with genuine concern, which is vastly different from the way the online fans act.

The almost constant cribbing, moaning, agitating is positively annoying. The only way they'll be happy is if we are playing attractive football all the time, winning most of the time and doing so with global superstars. There is almost zero sense of perspective and loads of entitlement.

I believe that by the time we once again reach the top, a huge section of some of our remote fan base would have vanished into thin air.

 

[Deglobalise Football]

If you don't understand why matchgoing fans will not crack, you do not and never have understood the club you support, or the local community in general. Which means you should probably go and primarily support some other team.

 

[Bilbo]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

Nice post - I'm with you. Fully backing Ole right now and will do all season. If we have not improved by this time next season I'll support a change in management.

 

[TRUERED89]

They pay their money and make the effort etc, but there’s definitely a massive top red mentality amongst the match going fans as a result of years and years of believing we do things differently. Presumably because of Fergie, as we never had the need to turn on a manager. Now we’re just like any other club we seem to be having an identity crisis on and off the field.

This! Neville’s usual comments on Sky reinforce the top red mentality as well tbf.

 

[atticus finch]

"Incredibly loyal" my fecking arse.

Toxic cnuts tortured Fellaini for years and all he ever did was try his best.

You are right, MF did get some stick. I would say though, that a lot of it was not aimed at him, rather what he stood for under JM. When we were a goal up, MF was bought on to kill the game in order to protect the lead when everyone wanted us to kick on. His arrival on the pitch often meant the arrival of boring football and handing the initiative to our opponents.

It is one of those weird anomalies that MF was cheered to the rafters when he came on when we were a goal down so we could lump the ball high into the penalty area of our opponents.... Fans eh! Go figure!

 

[Tel074]

"Incredibly loyal" my fecking arse.

Toxic cnuts tortured Fellaini for years and all he ever did was try his best.

Absolute BS . Fellaini was hugely supported especially by our away support . Once he was giving some stick at OT which was a complete disgrace . To say he was tortured for years is simply a lie

 

[SteveW]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

Well said.

 

[ottosec]

Most of them won't crack because of the Fergie era. They are very used to backing the manager no matter what. I would say that that is both a curse and a blessing.

They will tell you that even Sir Alex needed 3 years to come good, conveniently forgetting that the great man was the last to win the Scottish League outside Celtic/Rangers and he beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen. There isn't another Fergie around, and likely there never will be.

With Ole the loyalty is even stronger, because of his past. People just can't see the difference between Ole the player and Ole the manager.

 

[Mainoldo]

The match going fans epitomise what it means to be a proper United fan. They show what it means to support this club, not the twitter dickheads.

What are we?

 

[Mainoldo]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

Why are the board and owners to blame?

 

[Deglobalise Football]

It is an example used in this of a club who are on a wretched run of form and still above us in the table. At least they are striving to improve while we continue to find one positive or the other for a shocking run of performances.

You can’t fault them for how Wenger ultimately left considering that he spend close to 14 years without a Premier League title and had been shown enough amount of loyalty. I never condone booing of individual players and never will.

My whole point being that as a club, we are way too lenient. We had a similar run with LVG in 2015 when we were winless for 6 or 7 games near mid December and had been eliminated from the UCL. Still, we persisted with him and finished outside of top 4 and now again we’re in danger of having another season as a write off. And we’re currently worse off them what we were at a similar stage last year and there was a huge amount of pressure on Mourinho then while Olé seems relatively comfortable. Are our standards declining further?

Just for fun, what is your opinion? How do you see us going back to the top? Or are you also like one of those fans (especially in this thread) who are just happy to watch the match with their mates and consider it a privilege no matter what the result is?

Most of them won't crack because of the Fergie era. They are very used to backing the manager no matter what. I would say that that is both a curse and a blessing.

They will tell you that even Sir Alex needed 3 years to come good, conveniently forgetting that the great man was the last to win the Scottish League outside Celtic/Rangers and he beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen. There isn't another Fergie around, and likely there never will be.

With Ole the loyalty is even stronger, because of his past. People just can't see the difference between Ole the player and Ole the manager.

Let me tell you something - the reluctance of matchgoing fans to act like internet 'fans' has absolutely nothing to do with the Fergie era. It predates that era by approximately 100 years.

 

[Carolina Red]

Let me tell you something - the reluctance of matchgoing fans to act like internet 'fans' has absolutely nothing to do with the Fergie era. It predates that era by approximately 100 years.

Who told you that? Benjamin Disraeli?

 

[jderbyshire]

The disparity between this forum and the match-going fans (and fans in general) is enormous.

The Caf is split pretty much 50/50 with half wanting Ole sacked. Yet 'IRL' I've yet to meet any Red who wants rid of him.

I find this quite baffling.

 

[Deglobalise Football]

The disparity between this forum and the match-going fans (and fans in general) is enormous.

The Caf is split pretty much 50/50 with half wanting Ole sacked. Yet 'IRL' I've yet to meet any Red who wants rid of him.

I find this quite baffling.

Results have always (and always will) been secondary to community and tradition to matchgoing fans. Especially generational fans and those who grew up in or around the area.

Obviously this is not the case with the wider, internet-based fanbase.

 

[Lynty]

Most of them won't crack because of the Fergie era. They are very used to backing the manager no matter what. I would say that that is both a curse and a blessing.

They will tell you that even Sir Alex needed 3 years to come good, conveniently forgetting that the great man was the last to win the Scottish League outside Celtic/Rangers and he beat Real Madrid in a European final with Aberdeen. There isn't another Fergie around, and likely there never will be.

With Ole the loyalty is even stronger, because of his past. People just can't see the difference between Ole the player and Ole the manager.

Come on mate. We aren't idiots.

I couldn't care if it was Stevie G in the dugout. What I see is a manager who is tactically average, but is taking the club forward in other areas. Our transfer business is logical for the first time in years. His man management is good. We've made strides in procuring the best youth talent available and have made the club an attractive destination to youngsters who want a clear pathway into first team football. I fail to see deterioration - morale, ability, fitness etc. that was obvious under previous managers, in contrast you can point to improvement in all those three areas.

The only thing I can hold against him is that he isn't doing it fast enough and he isn't Klopp or Pep.

Then lets touch on injuries - how many points is Pogba worth? 3 points would put us in 5th. 6 points and we'd be up Chelsea's ass and this thread wouldn't exist. We've had key players injured for long and crucial periods of this season.

Do I think Ole will ever be tactically good enough. No I don't. But I have complete trust in him to sort out the attitude, squad and recruitment issues that were the foundations of our stagnation. A better coach can be recruited once the squad can realistically win something. Right now, we know that isn't the case.

This time last year we all knew what a mess we were and the sensible fans knew that it was going to take more than 12months for it to truly change.

 

[Le Red]

I suppose you missed the mass protests in 2005 and again in 2010? what difference did they make? not much - apart from the club cutting all communication with fan groups and the atmosphere going downhill as a result (as you witnessed in 2013).

So its basically clear by now that protests are not going to make much difference and in fact the Glazers are in a far stronger position financially now than they were back in 2005 or 10. So lately there has been a change of tactics with closer ties between fan groups and the club - if you came back you would see vast improvements in the atmosphere (in certain areas anyway) as a result.

many fans like yourself dont understand that the priorities and viewpoint of a matchgoer are often different - to you watching a winning and entertaining team is probably all that matters whereas for many season ticket holders having a good atmosphere and singing along with your mates is the no1 priority

The protests you mentioned happened in a time SAF was still our manager and the team was winning for fun. Sadly, they were never going to gain that much traction.
These change of tactics you are referring to also didn't seem to achieve much. The owners continue to suck the club's blood dry whilst making the sporting project shittier and shittier.
Maybe you are right in your remarks but sooner than later you and your mates will be singing in the Championship if nothing is done.

 

[Le Red]

I go to every home game and some away with my son and I've been going for the best part of 20 years . Will I crack ? The only time I've really had enough was with Moyes and then LVG . I travel from Ireland for every game and watching 0.0 bores was depressing.

At the moment I'm a long way of cracking with our manager because even though we are no where near where we should be as a club I don't think it's mainly his fault . I've seen some positives especially with getting rid of players and with 3 solid new signings .

Am I happy with our current squad ? No..
But is that the managers fault ? I don't think it is . We have shown since the Glazer family took over the club that we haven't a clue in the transfer market . We got lucky we had the great man in charge because he papered over the cracks of Woodward and Co. for a few years ..

I've seen the good times and I've seen the previous bad times and I can say I've not met one single regular supporter at games that has told me any different. We back our manager because we mainly believe we are moving forward as a club this season.
Yes our position is awful and our squad isn't what it needs to be but it will take time . If things are this bad this time next year then I'm sure Ole will be replaced but I've stated many times before even Pep would struggle with the squad we have at the moment.

These forums are all full of people losing their heads because 'we arnt where we should be ' but we are where we deserve to be . It will get better and this season try and enjoy watching the likes of Tuanzebe Williams James etc .

If as fans you want to criticise then criticise the board and the owners they are the people who are to blame for this mess we are in

That's my point though, I don't see anywhere near reaction against the board by the people who have the more power to do so.
I don't agree with you when you say that things will get better. What evidence do we have of that?

 

[Le Red]

Absolutely agree with this.

Perhaps it's a question of when our internet based fans will change. Those who've seen us during the 80's and 70's have developed an almost family like closeness with the club. The way they speak of the club is with genuine concern, which is vastly different from the way the online fans act.

The almost constant cribbing, moaning, agitating is positively annoying. The only way they'll be happy is if we are playing attractive football all the time, winning most of the time and doing so with global superstars. There is almost zero sense of perspective and loads of entitlement.

I believe that by the time we once again reach the top, a huge section of some of our remote fan base would have vanished into thin air.

I find it funny that you say the "online fans" are entitled, then you go on to say "by the time we once again reach the top", as if this club in particular has the right to be at the top without the proper administration.
Frankly, what makes you think it's only a matter of time until we are a dominant force again?
Still, in twenty years time, there's a lot of people going to be happy in here. If nothing changes, the foreign fanbase will be akin to the midtable clubs. The revenue will diminish and less money will make things even worse.
Then it will be just you and your mates again, singing for the singing, because trophys will be out of the question.
God how I hope I'm wrong. But as long as the Glazers own the club, that's the most likely scenario.

 

[Eckers99]

When will the match- going fans stop supporting the team in the hope that it inspires them to perform better and intimidate their opponents? Hopefully never, with the fans onboard it's a priceless advantage. Getting more match-goers to make some noise is the bigger issue.

 

[Rood]

The protests you mentioned happened in a time SAF was still our manager and the team was winning for fun. Sadly, they were never going to gain that much traction.
These change of tactics you are referring to also didn't seem to achieve much. The owners continue to suck the club's blood dry whilst making the sporting project shittier and shittier.
Maybe you are right in your remarks but sooner than later you and your mates will be singing in the Championship if nothing is done.

I think it's pretty clear that you don't know much about past protests if you think they didnt gain any transaction. G&G was probably the biggest and most visual protest to ever happen at a PL club. I suggest you go and read up about it.

And the change of tactics has achieved a lot for matchgoers (ticket price reductions, improved atmosphere etc) but like I said before, you wouldn't know much about it since you aren't one. And this is not meant to be a criticism BTW, it's just fact.

 

[Bobcat]

It is an example used in this of a club who are on a wretched run of form and still above us in the table. At least they are striving to improve while we continue to find one positive or the other for a shocking run of performances.

You can’t fault them for how Wenger ultimately left considering that he spend close to 14 years without a Premier League title and had been shown enough amount of loyalty. I never condone booing of individual players and never will.

My whole point being that as a club, we are way too lenient. We had a similar run with LVG in 2015 when we were winless for 6 or 7 games near mid December and had been eliminated from the UCL. Still, we persisted with him and finished outside of top 4 and now again we’re in danger of having another season as a write off. And we’re currently worse off them what we were at a similar stage last year and there was a huge amount of pressure on Mourinho then while Olé seems relatively comfortable. Are our standards declining further?

Just for fun, what is your opinion? How do you see us going back to the top? Or are you also like one of those fans (especially in this thread) who are just happy to watch the match with their mates and consider it a privilege no matter what the result is?

Ambition = Being a cnut, booing your own players and sending death threats to their loved ones?

The atmosphere at the Emirates is shite and it has been since opening day. The strength of playing at home is you have thousands of fans cheering you on, but for Arsenal its actually the opposite. Moans, groans and boos for everyone

Part of being a supporter is supporting the team in the good times as well as the bad ones. How do you think it is supporting Blackburn or Nottingham Forrest? They were big clubs once, but are shite now and they still have fans who go to every game and sing their hearts out

Regarding us, we now have a club legend who absolutely loves the club at the helm and is struggling under extremely difficult circumstances. Yet we have fans that are more than happy to throw personal insults his way because they are unhappy with our results. Like yesterday for example in the Astana matchday thread, where we sent a school trip to a completely meaningless game we had plenty of insults being thrown at the manager.

I guess fans like these see their support as some kind of transactions. They give their "support" and in return they expect success and when they dont get it they demand a refund

 

[Eriku]

I think threads like this (but many others are much worse) really illuminate the way in which a number of us relate to the club. For some of us it's a transactional relationship - "I paid for entertainment, and to win... and I didn't get what I paid for". For some people it's more about bragging rights, whether that be knowing more than the manager, other fans, or taking down their Liverpool supporting college. At the other extreme we have fans for whom the club is part of the family. There's plenty of space in the middle, and I'm not interested in telling people what kind of fan they should be... but the negativity on here can be so ridiculously bad. People like to justify it as constructive criticism, as though they are doing the club a favour by whining and complaining. It's not though, because they aren't personally in a position of influence. They have as much right as I do to be here, but this place just isn't that pleasant to visit anymore, I'm not entirely sure why I keep coming back to be honest, it doesn't have a positive impact of my life.

I second this. Hard. Especially the last sentence.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I second this. Hard. Especially the last sentence.

Well then don't come here. Simple. If I get down in the dumps or depressed about something I'm reading, I don't read it. I 'get' that there are levels to negativity but if posters only want to see positive spins on our current shiteness, it isn't an internet forum they want - it's an echo chamber. In that case, stick to surrounding yourself with the positive support at OT, good on you (I don't mean that sarcastically).

 

[Eriku]

Well then don't come here. Simple. If I get down in the dumps or depressed about something I'm reading, I don't read it. I 'get' that there are levels to negativity but if posters only want to see positive spins on our current shiteness, it isn't an internet forum they want - it's an echo chamber. In that case, stick to surrounding yourself with the positive support at OT, good on you (I don't mean that sarcastically).

Then don’t come here? Piss off, mate.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Then don’t come here? Piss off, mate.

Same to you, lad.

 

[el3mel]

I think threads like this (but many others are much worse) really illuminate the way in which a number of us relate to the club. For some of us it's a transactional relationship - "I paid for entertainment, and to win... and I didn't get what I paid for". For some people it's more about bragging rights, whether that be knowing more than the manager, other fans, or taking down their Liverpool supporting college. At the other extreme we have fans for whom the club is part of the family. There's plenty of space in the middle, and I'm not interested in telling people what kind of fan they should be... but the negativity on here can be so ridiculously bad. People like to justify it as constructive criticism, as though they are doing the club a favour by whining and complaining. It's not though, because they aren't personally in a position of influence. They have as much right as I do to be here, but this place just isn't that pleasant to visit anymore, I'm not entirely sure why I keep coming back to be honest, it doesn't have a positive impact of my life.

So you get positive impact on your life by reading positive things about your beloved club on internet ? I mean we can classify supporters in anyway we like but at the end of the day this will always stay as a sport, sort of "entertainment", not a life changing matter to get either depressed or enthusiastic for reading posts on a football forum. You're honestly taking it way too seriously if you think that.

 

[Eriku]

So you get positive impact on your life by reading positive things about your beloved club on internet ? I mean we can classify supporters in anyway we like but at the end of the day this will always stay as a sport, sort of "entertainment", not a life changing matter to get either depressed or enthusiastic for reading posts on a football forum. You're honestly taking it way too seriously if you think that.

To be fair, relationships with football clubs are ultimately founded on emotion, right? If we care deeply about the club and we want to relate to others and see what others who are on the same train think and feel, and all we see is unceasing negativity, that's bound to make some people feel shitty.

I get that people might have differing reactions, and that people who feel thoroughly exasperated with the insistence on us retaining Ole might feel better when they see they're not alone, but c'mon, a lot of the language used is intolerable. People who are Ole-in constantly have to read claims that they're in a cult, that they're blind, that they have no fecking clue, etc. Top that off with some of the incredibly harsh language used about Ole, who is a club legend and a lovely guy to boot (not saying that's an argument for his not being sacked, mind you), and you get a pretty shitty foruming experience for those on the other side.

Not trying to white-wash the other side, I know Ole-out people get their share of stuff thrown at them too, but to me it seems the Ole-out crowd are far harsher in their language. Whatever you think of Ole, he's not totally clueless and worthless as a manager. Anybody saying that is dealing in black and white and being hyperbolic as feck.

My two cents... I generally won't bother responding much, but I've noticed that you @el3mel give credit where it's due, and do seem happy when we do well, even if it might delay what you think is an inevitable sacking because Ole's failed.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Expecting the club to be run in a competent manner, especially given the resources we have, is hardly "entitlement". It's absolutely criminal how the entire organization has been mismanaged, at all levels, over the past seven years.

 

[redshaw]

They crack when it becomes clear Ole isn't going to morph into SAF, which will take 3-4 years to test out.

In general, fans locally are willing to give Ole a fair chance which is the rest of the season or more. I'm sure they will turn if we spend a while at the bottom but if midtable and young players start forming well they will give it some time. If Ole can learn fast we might have a very committed manager for a long time.