When will the French tap run dry?...

Sayros

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Not anytime soon.
In fact the generation coming up is much better than the one that won the World Cup.
Mbappe is not even guaranteed the title of best French player of the next decade with what there is in store, he'll have to fight hard for it.
It's a bit of a hyperbole and far too soon to say that. Right now, the big talent coming up is Cherki but it's still so soon to see just how his talent will truly translate to the pro level, how his health goes, etc. I mean, Mbappe's been around for a while but same for him as well. However, the performances he's putting out, I'm not seeing a lot of talent coming up that will match that. He's doing things that you just don't see very often, with a consistency and progression that suggests it's only a matter of health and very little time to match the kinds of seasons CR7 or Messi put out in their primes. Also, Mbappe won a world cup and scored in the final, so he's always going to have a big advantage compared to any youngsters coming up since you're talking about best french player of the next decade.

That being said, it's true that the tap is not going to run dry anytime soon. France is on top of the world, IMO, when it comes to nurturing talents and developing world-class potentials. Right now, there's a lot of really, really talented defenders and midfielders coming up that I'm really excited about, including Hannibal.
 

JPRouve

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The French are pretty useless at every other sport so it's all relative. Football is their game.
:nono:

We are not useless in Handball, Basketball, Biathlon, Cycling, Alpine Skying, Martial Arts, Rugby, Fencing and many other sports. You just can't handle our greatness which is sad TheReligion, sad.
 

Greck

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I wouldn't call it great, for one small reason. There is nothing unique about french immigration.
Yeah no, I didn't think it was that great either. I was just being agreeable :lol:. Decent more like . On the point of french immigration I gotta disagree. Actually looked at the numbers before making that post. Roughly 50% are made from Algeria, Morocco, italy and sub-saharan Africa. Contrast with the UK whose migrants have a large Asian population (India and Pakistan taking a sizable chunk)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/where-do-french-immigrants-come-from.html
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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It's a bit of a hyperbole and far too soon to say that. Right now, the big talent coming up is Cherki but it's still so soon to see just how his talent will truly translate to the pro level, how his health goes, etc. I mean, Mbappe's been around for a while but same for him as well. However, the performances he's putting out, I'm not seeing a lot of talent coming up that will match that. He's doing things that you just don't see very often, with a consistency and progression that suggests it's only a matter of health and very little time to match the kinds of seasons CR7 or Messi put out in their primes. Also, Mbappe won a world cup and scored in the final, so he's always going to have a big advantage compared to any youngsters coming up since you're talking about best french player of the next decade.

That being said, it's true that the tap is not going to run dry anytime soon. France is on top of the world, IMO, when it comes to nurturing talents and developing world-class potentials. Right now, there's a lot of really, really talented defenders and midfielders coming up that I'm really excited about, including Hannibal.
I mean Cherki is more talented than Mbappe to be honest. He's closer to a Neymar/Messi type player with the complete technical baggage and the ability to influence the game in tons of different ways and these players are always more special than a freakish goalscorer.
Obviously it's not guaranteed he'll surpass him but right now he's way ahead of where Mbappe was at his age. If he manages to say injury free I'm confident he'll give Kylian more than a run for his money.
And yea Mbappe did win a world cup but that wasn't in the current decade to be fair. If he stays at Paris and keeps failing to win the UCL year after year while scoring goals in a league that his team trashes regularly I don't think he'll have proven anything more than he currently has.
 

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Great video. One thing it missed is their foreign descents also come from hardcore football playing nations. Having access to that talent pool doesn't hurt
Oh definitely. The culture of the immigrant communities is crucial as it influences what sports the lads play when growing up. Football is the most popular sport in Algeria and most African nations by far. apparently it was introduced to Africa as far back as 100 years ago.


The immigration thing is relevant but you have to give credit to their development system.

Still France has about 3 to 5 million blacks, and Brazil has anywhere from 70 million to 100 million people with African descent and we are so corrupt and incompetent that there can be another country producing better players.
Yeah the video mentioned the academies all France. They invested in their talent pool.
 

JPRouve

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Yeah no, I didn't think it was that great either. I was just being agreeable :lol:. Decent more like . On the point of french immigration I gotta disagree. Actually looked at the numbers before making that post. Roughly 50% are made from Algeria, Morocco, italy and sub-saharan Africa. Contrast with the UK whose migrants have a large Asian population (India and Pakistan taking a sizable chunk)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_population_of_the_United_Kingdom
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/where-do-french-immigrants-come-from.html
That makes the UK unique not France. In the context of the video the uniqueness is used as an argument for France success, presumably because these countries have an interest for Football but that applies to Spanish, Italian, German or Dutch immigration who have for main immigration countries like Morocco, Turkey and in the case of Spain a lot of South American countries. The UK could be seen as unique but even then the african population is large.

But to me the all thing is kind of irrelevant because the actual reason is that in France for some reason we are good at teaching sport and scouting talents wherever they are. That's why you see african and north african decents also highly represented in Rugby, Martial arts and Handball. There is a strong culture of amateur sport, a large amount of kids will be in the local clubs and sometimes in several sports, which sport they play will depend a lot on the regions they are living.
 

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Messi never won a world cup so I guess he isn't a world beater. Zlatan neither, nor Kaka (or any Dutch player), Batistuta, Laudrup, Eto'o, Raul, Dalglish, Seedorf, Figo, Sheva, Zico, Socrates, George Best - all fail the world beater metric by your standard.
He is obviously I’m looking at the winners of the World Cup mostly not the ones who didn’t win it, France Brazil Argentina Italy Spain in the last 30 years, out of all those nations I think only Italy didn’t have an all time great as in B’allon D’or winning great most of those names on your list, I don’t consider to be of that level and the ones who were Best Figo Daglish for example didn’t play for the best of nations, Zico and Kaka were unlucky too, but generally if a nation doesn’t have a Maradona Zidane a Ronaldo Romario Mbappe(will fall into that category pretty soon) its very hard to, they have to be incredibly coached or be lucky with timing, England haven’t had neither.
 

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Messi never won a world cup so I guess he isn't a world beater. Zlatan neither, nor Kaka (or any Dutch player), Batistuta, Laudrup, Eto'o, Raul, Dalglish, Seedorf, Figo, Sheva, Zico, Socrates, George Best - all fail the world beater metric by your standard.
Kaka won the world cup. He even made a cameo in the final
 

JPRouve

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He is obviously I’m looking at the winners of the World Cup mostly not the ones who didn’t win it, France Brazil Argentina Italy Spain in the last 30 years, out of all those nations I think only Italy didn’t have an all time great as in B’allon D’or winning great most of those names on your list, I don’t consider to be of that level and the ones who were Best Figo Daglish for example didn’t play for the best of nations, Zico and Kaka were unlucky too, but generally if a nation doesn’t have a Maradona Zidane a Ronaldo Romario Mbappe(will fall into that category pretty soon) its very hard to, they have to be incredibly coached or be lucky with timing, England haven’t had neither.
Would Baggio fit your point, while he didn't win the World Cup with Italy, he did spearheaded them to a final and is an all time great?

I would say that Baggio's performances for Italy and his career as a whole was better than the english players mentioned. Shearer and Gascoigne are the ones that I would have mentioned for the 90s, to me it seems that in England you sometimes overlook your truly great players and overrate the very good ones.
 

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I actually think that it’s already beginning to run dry. A lot of French players like Dembele, Tolisso, Fekir, Ndombele, Rabiot, Bakayoko etc... have not developed in the way people thought they would a few years ago.

I remember when Germany won the Confederations Cup with their young team. I remember how many people waxed lyrical about how great Germany is and how much depth they have. Then they got knocked out at the World Cup in the group stage. Many players on that German squad at the Confederations Cup failed to live up to expectations.

In football things can change very quickly.
 

JPRouve

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I actually think that it’s already beginning to run dry. A lot of French players like Dembele, Tolisso, Fekir, Ndombele, Rabiot, Bakayoko etc... have not developed in the way people thought they would a few years ago.

I remember when Germany won the Confederations Cup with their young team. I remember how many people waxed lyrical about how great Germany is and how much depth they have. Then they got knocked out at the World Cup in the group stage. Many players on that German squad at the Confederations Cup failed to live up to expectations.

In football things can change very quickly.
Bakayoko was never rated, Dembélé, Fékir and Tolisso had big injuries and neither Fékir nor Tolisso were considered to be future world class players. And France has never counted on any of them.

What you did there is made the equivalent list of Marvin Martin, Ben Arfa, Capoue and M'Vila. It doesn't mean a thing for France.
 

TwoSheds

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Your summary is more about aesthetic than actual level of performances because despite what you say he wasn't scoring more goals than the others and he was assisting. Owen in my opinion was never in the top 3 among strikers, he was a top player but several strikers outperformed him during his peak, maybe without the injuries he would have developed into a superior player but it didn't happen.

For me in 2001 Raul, Trezeguet and Shevchenko were definitely better. Raul was arguably the most complete striker and registered big numbers, Trezeguet was a better goalscorer and a menace in the air, while Shevchenko was as good a finisher as Owen.
I never liked any of those 3 strikers much that you mentioned tbh but I think Shevchenko is the only one you could say might match Owen's skillset. Raul and Trezeguet were nothing players in the grand scheme of things, despite their massive reputations.
 

JPRouve

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I never liked any of those 3 strikers much that you mentioned tbh but I think Shevchenko is the only one you could say might match Owen's skillset. Raul and Trezeguet were nothing players in the grand scheme of things, despite their massive reputations.
Which begs the question if these players were nothing players, as you say, then Owen has no business being mentioned.
 

Rozay

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I actually think that it’s already beginning to run dry. A lot of French players like Dembele, Tolisso, Fekir, Ndombele, Rabiot, Bakayoko etc... have not developed in the way people thought they would a few years ago.

I remember when Germany won the Confederations Cup with their young team. I remember how many people waxed lyrical about how great Germany is and how much depth they have. Then they got knocked out at the World Cup in the group stage. Many players on that German squad at the Confederations Cup failed to live up to expectations.

In football things can change very quickly.
France probably have at least 10 players who don’t make their squad who could conceivably transfer for £50m-£60m+ in a normal market tbh.
 

Eendracht maakt macht

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I never liked any of those 3 strikers much that you mentioned tbh but I think Shevchenko is the only one you could say might match Owen's skillset. Raul and Trezeguet were nothing players in the grand scheme of things, despite their massive reputations.
How on earth are Raul and Trezeguet nothing players?
 

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He is obviously I’m looking at the winners of the World Cup mostly not the ones who didn’t win it, France Brazil Argentina Italy Spain in the last 30 years, out of all those nations I think only Italy didn’t have an all time great as in B’allon D’or winning great most of those names on your list, I don’t consider to be of that level and the ones who were Best Figo Daglish for example didn’t play for the best of nations, Zico and Kaka were unlucky too, but generally if a nation doesn’t have a Maradona Zidane a Ronaldo Romario Mbappe(will fall into that category pretty soon) its very hard to, they have to be incredibly coached or be lucky with timing, England haven’t had neither.
But some of these players are being elevated by you BECAUSE they won the world cup but may have had inferior club careers compared to some of the names mentioned. Batistuta was probably the 2nd best forward in his time (2nd to Ronaldo) and hes not a world beater?

Portugal have good players. Maybe if their stars shone at the world cup they could have a chance. They seemed to shine in the Euros
 

TheReligion

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We are not useless in Handball, Basketball, Biathlon, Cycling, Alpine Skying, Martial Arts, Rugby, Fencing and many other sports. You just can't handle our greatness which is sad TheReligion, sad.
Martial arts - no.
Rugby - average

The rest a bit meh but my point still stands. You excel at football but aren't particularly great at much else. Perhaps useless was a bit strong!
 

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His premised was players "spearheading" their nations to world cup glory. According to wiki he did not make an appearance in the final.
Ah ok, didn't pay attention. Correction - Kaka played against Costa Rica and they were desperate to sub him in vs Germany and screaming for the ref to notice them, but he blew the whistle before noticing them
 

JPRouve

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Martial arts - no.
Rugby - average

The rest a bit meh but my point still stands. You excel at football but aren't particularly great at much else. Perhaps useless was a bit strong!
Martial arts no? So the current third nation in Judo or the nation with the second largest amount of medals in Karaté WC isn't good?
 

TwoSheds

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How on earth are Raul and Trezeguet nothing players?
Trezeguet was a slightly more stylish Pippo, his all round game was just completely unremarkable in every way. Raul was a better player but very inconsistent through his career and benefitted from playing alongside the best players in the world. I'm not saying they were shit I just think they were lucky to play when and where they did and if you put them up against later La Liga strikers like Falcao, Aguero, Forlan, Benzema, even Higuain maybe, I'm not sure they're on that level.
 

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Trezeguet was a slightly more stylish Pippo, his all round game was just completely unremarkable in every way. Raul was a better player but very inconsistent through his career and benefitted from playing alongside the best players in the world. I'm not saying they were shit I just think they were lucky to play when and where they did and if you put them up against later La Liga strikers like Falcao, Aguero, Forlan, Benzema, even Higuain maybe, I'm not sure they're on that level.
Forlan?
 

Righteous Steps

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Would Baggio fit your point, while he didn't win the World Cup with Italy, he did spearheaded them to a final and is an all time great?

I would say that Baggio's performances for Italy and his career as a whole was better than the english players mentioned. Shearer and Gascoigne are the ones that I would have mentioned for the 90s, to me it seems that in England you sometimes overlook your truly great players and overrate the very good ones.
Yes Baggio is right up there to be honest he was a World Cup away from being rated higher than he already is, and definitely an all time great, similar to Messi he done everything to get his team to the final but there are fine margins a lot of the times.

In regards to England I think Gascogoine was definitely talent wise the best player the countries produced in the last 30 years, he just didn’t fufill that great deal of talent and therefore I can’t put him above the likes of Lampard Scholes Rooney and co even if he was naturally a better footballer, no surprise though that the closest we have been to a World Cup final until two years ago was with him as the spearhead. Shearer is great but I don’t think he can be ranked above the likes of Rooney Gerrard Lampard either on talent or what he actually accomplished I wouldn’t put him alongside the truly great names like Baggio Romario Ronaldo etc.
 
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Righteous Steps

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But some of these players are being elevated by you BECAUSE they won the world cup but may have had inferior club careers compared to some of the names mentioned. Batistuta was probably the 2nd best forward in his time (2nd to Ronaldo) and hes not a world beater?

Portugal have good players. Maybe if their stars shone at the world cup they could have a chance. They seemed to shine in the Euros
You are right about the a World Cup elevating players but even with the eye test, someone like Batistuta for me wasn’t a match for Romario or Baggio, Baggio is an example of a player who actually I would mention alongside the likes of Zidane Romario Ronaldo who never quite got to lift the World Cup but who’s talent and performances in 1990 were as good as anybody playing football at the time.

I think it’s the terminology I’m using the likes of Batistuta Shearer Raul we’re top top players but I think there is a distinction between them and the likes of Ronaldinho Ronaldo Romario Baggio and co in my eyes, so im basically naming players who can be argued to be in the Top 20 footballers in the history of the game.

I think the one time England produced a player on that level was Bobby Charlton and incidentally that is the one time they won a World Cup( obviously with the benefit of it being hosted in England which counts for a lot also).
 

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Martial arts - no.
Rugby - average

The rest a bit meh but my point still stands. You excel at football but aren't particularly great at much else. Perhaps useless was a bit strong!
How do you define "excels at sport" and which countries do, outside of the USA and China?

France excel at cycling having multiple Grand Tour winners
France excel at Tennis, regularly producing top 10 ranked players compared to other nations
France Excel at Rugby - They have reached 3 rugby world cups finals out of 9 tournaments and finished 3rd once.
France excel at Basketball - won FIBA world cup medals and finished second in Olympics twice,
France excel at racing - producing more champions than I can name.
France excel at Handball - current reigning olympic and Euro champs
France excel at Skiing - produced more world champs than I can name.
France excel at Judo - Only Japan has won more olympic medals

I never liked any of those 3 strikers much that you mentioned tbh but I think Shevchenko is the only one you could say might match Owen's skillset. Raul and Trezeguet were nothing players in the grand scheme of things, despite their massive reputations.
ouch
Trezeguet was a slightly more stylish Pippo, his all round game was just completely unremarkable in every way. Raul was a better player but very inconsistent through his career and benefitted from playing alongside the best players in the world. I'm not saying they were shit I just think they were lucky to play when and where they did and if you put them up against later La Liga strikers like Falcao, Aguero, Forlan, Benzema, even Higuain maybe, I'm not sure they're on that level.
I mean damn! inconsistent???? He was top scorer in the champions league before Ronaldo and Messi broke the game and he was also Spain leading scorer.

La Liga's Best Spanish Player: 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2001–02
European Sports Magazines Team of the Year: 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000
UEFA Club Forward of the Year: 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2001–02
Pichichi Trophy: 1998–99, 2000–01
UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 1999–2000, 2000–01

He didn't benefit from playing with the best players more than anyone else. He shone among them and in fact, he was a STAR before many of them even arrived there. strange logic since most top players play with the best players in the world. Raul would easily sit among and above the players on that list. Higuain?!?!?
players like Falcao and Forlan have done nothing in the grand scheme of things
 

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No mention of clairefontaine?

Remember England going mad about building a national team training centre after France were dominating between 98-00.
 

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In every generation since I’ve been born (83) France have always had players that are amongst the best in the world in their position and it’s not just one there’s always at least 2 or 3 really top players and loads of other good players. Their league is competitive enough to let the best youth thrive enough so they can sell for good fees but small enough that clubs can play young players instead of making signings for every position and still remain competitive. Regular European football is the ultimate shop window. The immigrant population. The culture of amateur sports in France. The fact there’s so much more money in football than other sports. It’s a perfect storm. England have employed a similar approach to French model since the end of the 90s and it’s clearly working well now. I don’t think France will ever stop producing world class players. It’s a bit like United. They were in the right place at the right time as the big money came in and capitalised majorly. The structure is in place for them to continue to churn out players of a very high quality indefinitely.
 
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Sayros

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I mean Cherki is more talented than Mbappe to be honest. He's closer to a Neymar/Messi type player with the complete technical baggage and the ability to influence the game in tons of different ways and these players are always more special than a freakish goalscorer.
Obviously it's not guaranteed he'll surpass him but right now he's way ahead of where Mbappe was at his age. If he manages to say injury free I'm confident he'll give Kylian more than a run for his money.
And yea Mbappe did win a world cup but that wasn't in the current decade to be fair. If he stays at Paris and keeps failing to win the UCL year after year while scoring goals in a league that his team trashes regularly I don't think he'll have proven anything more than he currently has.
I'm a firm believer that talent doesn't mean anything until you consistently perform at the highest level.

Now, I know you know Mbappe is far more than just a goalscorer, so I think it's silly for you to just reduce him to a freakish goalscorer, Belgium vs France in the WC is as good reminder as any of that. All those abilities of Cherki to influence the game has yet to be seen on the pro level consistently (he has to be given the chance). I'm really hoping you're right to be honest, but we've been disappointed in the past with players that fit his profile, I'm not putting him in the Neymar/Messi or Mbappe bracket just yet because there's been players like him and they've flattered to deceive in living up to their huge potential. And finally, about him being way ahead of where Mbappe was at his age, he's definitely more gifted in dribbling and he's completely two-footed, that's about the two aspects I give him over Mbappe right now, who was pretty unplayable in the Euro u19 at 17 years old and once Jardim finally stopped holding him back and got him in the first team, there was no looking back. It'd be really good for Cherki if he even comes close to that by the end of his 17th year, nevermind what Mbappe did in the CL at 18.

I love Cherki, I really really hope he surpasses Mbappe and becomes the best player in the world, but it's more than a long shot despite his talent, especially since Mbappe is far from the finished product himself.
 

JPRouve

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I'm a firm believer that talent doesn't mean anything until you consistently perform at the highest level.

Now, I know you know Mbappe is far more than just a goalscorer, so I think it's silly for you to just reduce him to a freakish goalscorer, Belgium vs France in the WC is as good reminder as any of that. All those abilities of Cherki to influence the game has yet to be seen on the pro level consistently (he has to be given the chance). I'm really hoping you're right to be honest, but we've been disappointed in the past with players that fit his profile, I'm not putting him in the Neymar/Messi or Mbappe bracket just yet because there's been players like him and they've flattered to deceive in living up to their huge potential. And finally, about him being way ahead of where Mbappe was at his age, he's definitely more gifted in dribbling and he's completely two-footed, that's about the two aspects I give him over Mbappe right now, who was pretty unplayable in the Euro u19 at 17 years old and once Jardim finally stopped holding him back and got him in the first team, there was no looking back. It'd be really good for Cherki if he even comes close to that by the end of his 17th year, nevermind what Mbappe did in the CL at 18.

I love Cherki, I really really hope he surpasses Mbappe and becomes the best player in the world, but it's more than a long shot despite his talent, especially since Mbappe is far from the finished product himself.
I totally agree with you, that's why I don't rate the Ben Arfa, Nasri, Menez and Benzema generation highly. They are the reason we deeped between 2007 and 2013, technically they were as talented as any other generation but they failed to apply themselves mentally and professionally, Benzema is the only one who reached his full potential or close to it.
 

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I totally agree with you, that's why I don't rate the Ben Arfa, Nasri, Menez and Benzema generation highly. They are the reason we deeped between 2007 and 2013, technically they were as talented as any other generation but they failed to apply themselves mentally and professionally, Benzema is the only one who reached his full potential or close to it.
Gourcuff, Diaby too.

Ribery did reach potential.
 

JPRouve

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Gourcuff, Diaby too.

Ribery did reach potential.
Ribéry is older I would put him with Evra and it wasn't a great generation either in terms of depth, they also played their part in the downturn. But it's kind of why I believe that the answer to the OP is probably never, France do not rely on luck but scouting and coaching, it's the entire system that is productive, so even one or two generations are great they still produce top players and the next one does the same or better. The only chronical issue is with fullbacks, we don't produce them often.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

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I'm a firm believer that talent doesn't mean anything until you consistently perform at the highest level.

Now, I know you know Mbappe is far more than just a goalscorer, so I think it's silly for you to just reduce him to a freakish goalscorer, Belgium vs France in the WC is as good reminder as any of that. All those abilities of Cherki to influence the game has yet to be seen on the pro level consistently (he has to be given the chance). I'm really hoping you're right to be honest, but we've been disappointed in the past with players that fit his profile, I'm not putting him in the Neymar/Messi or Mbappe bracket just yet because there's been players like him and they've flattered to deceive in living up to their huge potential. And finally, about him being way ahead of where Mbappe was at his age, he's definitely more gifted in dribbling and he's completely two-footed, that's about the two aspects I give him over Mbappe right now, who was pretty unplayable in the Euro u19 at 17 years old and once Jardim finally stopped holding him back and got him in the first team, there was no looking back. It'd be really good for Cherki if he even comes close to that by the end of his 17th year, nevermind what Mbappe did in the CL at 18.

I love Cherki, I really really hope he surpasses Mbappe and becomes the best player in the world, but it's more than a long shot despite his talent, especially since Mbappe is far from the finished product himself.
But that's what Mbappe is. A freakish goalscorer. The fact that you have to bring up a WC game where we played on the counter all game long to find a case of Mbappe creating something is telling a lot.
Mbappe is not a creator for PSG. He is not only behind Neymar but also behind Di Maria when it comes to setting the pace and being at the heart of a team. He does have some decent dribbling, passing and is good technically but he's nowhere near Neymar in these aspects of his game. Killer pace, game sense and positioning are his strength that make him one of the best player in the world but he'll never be the most complete attacker around.

We've been disappointed by players of Cherki's profile but not a single one of them was as talented as him, not even Ben Arfa.

I maintain he is far ahead of where Mbappe was at his age, Cherki had already scored 2 goals and assisted 2 others in a single game at 16 years old and 5 months old. Mbappe didn't make his debut until he was 16 years and 11 month Olds, didn't score his first goal until he was 17 and 2 months old. To find a game of his of a similar calibeer to that of Cherki vs Nantes you need to go to December 2016 just one week before his 18th birthday where he scored his first career hat trick

Being unplayable at the u19 euro championship is nice but Cherki at u19 level is even better at a younger age. Putting up never seen statistics such as 18 dribbles in a single youth league game.

Obviously that's from a talent and precocity and no one is safe from a career ending injury but this kid is one of a kind and the praise scouts and coaches have had for him isn't built off nothing. Especially at a club that had Benzema, Ben Arfa, Fekir, Martial
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
5,309
How do you define "excels at sport" and which countries do, outside of the USA and China?

France excel at cycling having multiple Grand Tour winners
France excel at Tennis, regularly producing top 10 ranked players compared to other nations
France Excel at Rugby - They have reached 3 rugby world cups finals out of 9 tournaments and finished 3rd once.
France excel at Basketball - won FIBA world cup medals and finished second in Olympics twice,
France excel at racing - producing more champions than I can name.
France excel at Handball - current reigning olympic and Euro champs
France excel at Skiing - produced more world champs than I can name.
France excel at Judo - Only Japan has won more olympic medals


ouch

I mean damn! inconsistent???? He was top scorer in the champions league before Ronaldo and Messi broke the game and he was also Spain leading scorer.

La Liga's Best Spanish Player: 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2001–02
European Sports Magazines Team of the Year: 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000
UEFA Club Forward of the Year: 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2001–02
Pichichi Trophy: 1998–99, 2000–01
UEFA Champions League top goalscorer: 1999–2000, 2000–01

He didn't benefit from playing with the best players more than anyone else. He shone among them and in fact, he was a STAR before many of them even arrived there. strange logic since most top players play with the best players in the world. Raul would easily sit among and above the players on that list. Higuain?!?!?
players like Falcao and Forlan have done nothing in the grand scheme of things
In Feb 2006, Raul ended an 11 month goal drought FFS. Nearly as long as Lingard's run (in which he barely played of course). The streakiest striker I can remember.

Gareth Barry is the record appearance holder for the Prem and has lots of goals and assists too, he's not getting in anyone's top 5 list any time either though.
 

Lynty

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
1,642
Hehe, maybe one day I’ll post the thread I want to post.
I'm really intrigued now :lol::lol:

I'm guessing it's either the seemingly differing physical capabilities or limitations of races? or that international teams should be represented by players from a shared genetic ancestry rather than nationality?

Whatever it is would be an interesting discussion, it's a shame that some idiot would ruin it for everyone with misguided 'jokes'.
 

Righteous Steps

Full Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2016
Messages
822
But that's what Mbappe is. A freakish goalscorer. The fact that you have to bring up a WC game where we played on the counter all game long to find a case of Mbappe creating something is telling a lot.
Mbappe is not a creator for PSG. He is not only behind Neymar but also behind Di Maria when it comes to setting the pace and being at the heart of a team. He does have some decent dribbling, passing and is good technically but he's nowhere near Neymar in these aspects of his game. Killer pace, game sense and positioning are his strength that make him one of the best player in the world but he'll never be the most complete attacker around.

We've been disappointed by players of Cherki's profile but not a single one of them was as talented as him, not even Ben Arfa.

I maintain he is far ahead of where Mbappe was at his age, Cherki had already scored 2 goals and assisted 2 others in a single game at 16 years old and 5 months old. Mbappe didn't make his debut until he was 16 years and 11 month Olds, didn't score his first goal until he was 17 and 2 months old. To find a game of his of a similar calibeer to that of Cherki vs Nantes you need to go to December 2016 just one week before his 18th birthday where he scored his first career hat trick

Being unplayable at the u19 euro championship is nice but Cherki at u19 level is even better at a younger age. Putting up never seen statistics such as 18 dribbles in a single youth league game.

Obviously that's from a talent and precocity and no one is safe from a career ending injury but this kid is one of a kind and the praise scouts and coaches have had for him isn't built off nothing. Especially at a club that had Benzema, Ben Arfa, Fekir, Martial
You are underrating Mbappé, his dribbling technique and passing isn’t just decent it is very good.

Ok not to the level of Neymar but he is faster and just as accomplished a finisher if not more, also Cherki from the little I’ve seen him doesn’t have dribbling or the dexterity of Neymar also, and to add to that he is slower than both by a decent margin which counts for a lot, pace is a killer in football and when you have someone like Mbappe who blends the right iq and technical ability with pace you’ve got a world beater, Cherki doesn’t seem as athletic and the best athletes generally tend to be the best footballers when you get to the very very top the level which the likes of both Ronaldos Ronaldinho Pele Best occupy, you literally have to be a Messi or Maradona( who we’re not slouches themselves) like figure to reach those levels without it.