Where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank amongst the pantheon of greats?

Kag

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Ronaldo has been scoring more than a goal a game for over a decade and still you get nostalgics raising the likes of Eusebio, Di Stefano and Van Basten and arguing they're better/greater (is is the same?) players.

fecking hovel.

I mean, I'm not one for the numbers game... but actually look at Ronaldo's bloody numbers. He and Messi have changed the barometers by which football is assessed. They've almost normalised what they do. There's no way that (still brilliant) players that were successful at their clubs for significantly shorter periods of time can be raised on some platform that Ronaldo can't belong.

In general, people are always reticent to stick their neck out and admit what they're watching is the best. Well, that's what we've had the luxury of watching over the last ten years. A period of football that will be talked about for generations.
 

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Ronaldo has been scoring more than a goal a game for over a decade and still you get nostalgics raising the likes of Eusebio, Di Stefano and Van Basten and arguing they're better/greater (is is the same?) players.

fecking hovel.

I mean, I'm not one for the numbers game... but actually look at Ronaldo's bloody numbers. He and Messi have changed the barometers by which football is assessed. They've almost normalised what they do. There's no way that (still brilliant) players that were successful at their clubs for significantly shorter periods of time can be raised on some platform that Ronaldo can't belong.

In general, people are always reticent to stick their neck out and admit what they're watching is the best. Well, that's what we've had the luxury of watching over the last ten years. A period of football that will be talked about for generations.
Nostalgia is a powerful feeling.

that being said, I think comparing different era's is moot. The absolute top of world football has become increasingly narrow. thirty years ago the top players where spread out a bit more than they were today, so resistance in the league CL was bigger. As some other have said, if you put [past great X] in Barcelona or Real they would've had similar numbers. You can never know if this is actually true, but it definitely has some merrit.

Personality wise neither Messi or Ronaldo appeal to me whatsoever which will forever hamper my ability to idolize them. Messi is just meh, no colour, no personality no nothing and Ronaldo, well, he's just not my thing. For me that makes it hard to list them as the greatest two ever, while seeing what they've done and still do, is kinda hard to argue. It's just that outside of that guys like Maradona or Cruyff had actual interesting personalities to go with it.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Ronaldo has been scoring more than a goal a game for over a decade and still you get nostalgics raising the likes of Eusebio, Di Stefano and Van Basten and arguing they're better/greater (is is the same?) players.

fecking hovel.

I mean, I'm not one for the numbers game... but actually look at Ronaldo's bloody numbers. He and Messi have changed the barometers by which football is assessed. They've almost normalised what they do. There's no way that (still brilliant) players that were successful at their clubs for significantly shorter periods of time can be raised on some platform that Ronaldo can't belong.

In general, people are always reticent to stick their neck out and admit what they're watching is the best. Well, that's what we've had the luxury of watching over the last ten years. A period of football that will be talked about for generations.
In a couple of years you’ll be just as nostalgic as the rest of us. Just because you’re watching something special now it doesn’t mean we discard everything that went before.

It’s simply not as simplistic as revelling in the past with some sort of ‘good old days,’ attitude. Some of us are actually viewing this objectively and too dismiss
it as hovel is a little trite
 

Pogue Mahone

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Ronaldo has been scoring more than a goal a game for over a decade and still you get nostalgics raising the likes of Eusebio, Di Stefano and Van Basten and arguing they're better/greater (is is the same?) players.

fecking hovel.

I mean, I'm not one for the numbers game... but actually look at Ronaldo's bloody numbers. He and Messi have changed the barometers by which football is assessed. They've almost normalised what they do. There's no way that (still brilliant) players that were successful at their clubs for significantly shorter periods of time can be raised on some platform that Ronaldo can't belong.

In general, people are always reticent to stick their neck out and admit what they're watching is the best. Well, that's what we've had the luxury of watching over the last ten years. A period of football that will be talked about for generations.
I think I agree with this. There's definitely a football hipster factor when people big up footballers from decades ago, that they've probably never even watched play. Nostalgia also plays a part, hence I put Maradonna on a pedestal, even though my actual memory of him is fairly hazy. And the only way to get rid of all these biases is looking at the numbers and the stats of Messi and Ronaldo speak for themselves. Nobody else really comes close (unless they do? can any football hipster point out a former great who was as productive as these two, over such a long period of time?).

I think you've misused the word "hovel", mind you...
 

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Granted Pele has far more more World Cups, but I personally think Ronaldo is the best goal scorer/finisher football has ever seen (recency bias kicking in too). Plus the combination of his consistency, longevity and clutchness at the highest level is something only Messi can match. The scary part is that he can still keep this up for another 4-5 years barring any major injury.

And to think that this wasn’t even how he played in his formative years. Has anyone ever been able to successfully adapt and change his overall game to the degree that Ronaldo has? He went from being a World Class level player to a GOAT level legend; that’s unheard of in any sport let alone football. A lot of players add to their existing skillsets in order to pursue the next level, Ronaldo managed that while completely revamping his style of play.
 

whatwha

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I'm not one for overrating players I never even watched live.

Messi and Ronaldo must be #1 and #2 IMO.
 

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Hipsters will throw in a lot of names, but for me, it's

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo

And I might even revisit this ranking after the world cup.
 

NinjaFletch

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I think I agree with this. There's definitely a football hipster factor when people big up footballers from decades ago, that they've probably never even watched play. Nostalgia also plays a part, hence I put Maradonna on a pedestal, even though my actual memory of him is fairly hazy. And the only way to get rid of all these biases is looking at the numbers and the stats of Messi and Ronaldo speak for themselves. Nobody else really comes close (unless they do? can any football hipster point out a former great who was as productive as these two, over such a long period of time?).

I think you've misused the word "hovel", mind you...
Puskas, Pele and Eusebio are about the only ones I can think of whose numbers come close.
 

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At the top. Proven in more than 1 League. The fact that people around the world discuss it is acid crazy.
 
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Snafu17

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I'll just give people, who watched football in the 60's, 70's, 80's etc, the benefit of the doubt, regarding Pele and Maradona, as they seemed to be generally accepted as the two best players of all time, before I started watching football. No one else mind. Messi and Ronaldo achived a level of consistent brilliance (by stats and performances) over such a long period of time, that it's hard to imagine anyone else getting even close to that. I think it's best to just settle for top 5 where four spots belong to the aforementioned and the last one being debatable with either Cruyff, Di Stefano, Best etc...
 

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On a serious note, where does Cristiano now rank? IMO comparisons to you-know-how have always been unfair, despite him putting in a serious effort.. IMO there still remains an overall class differential but taking him out of the equation, where should Cristiano generally rank at this stage of his career.

A few years ago. many wouldn't have even had him in the top ten but by sheer force of will and the increasingly clutch nature of his performances means anything outside the top ten is ludicrous and he's got to the point where it might seem terribly biased to not even have in the top 5 all time list.

For me he's still behind Pele, Messi, Maradona and Beckenbauer (best defensive/midfield player) but he has reached the point where one could validly argue he's edged ahead of guys like Cruyff, Van Basten and R9.

Di Stefano? I don't know arguably not but where do you think he should be ranked. I think a greater appreciation needs to be shown towards his standing in the game because how often is it, you get two possibly top 5 candidates in the same generation of football. It is time he got the love he deserved.. probably the most unloved 'great' footballer there has been IMO which is a damn shame.
:confused:

Edged ahead of Cruyff? No way. I'd sooner say he's edged ahead of Messi.
 

Tommy

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2nd or 3rd, depending on how much I value longevity over peak at any given time (Ronaldinho :drool::drool::drool:).

:confused:

Edged ahead of Cruyff? No way. I'd sooner say he's edged ahead of Messi.
Location: Amsterdam.

No bias there eh? :D
 

Vialli_92

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Great box player and goalscorer but he falls short in other area's compared to some of the best

A player who mostly has 1-2 touches when he receives the ball can not be a better player than someone like Zidane

Zidane dragged the team forward and when things were not going well he would take the ball and drive the team forward

Ronaldo is entirely team dependant, if Real are being outplayed and not getting the ball forward he won't be able to drag his team forward and make plays

As a goalscorer he's the second best I have seen and overall as a player he's in the top 5 I have seen in my lifetime
 

Raees

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If you were to apply the same rigour to football that historians apply to history, then you would watch every minute that was televised for each one of these players before coming to an opinion. Have you done that?

Re music and films, I don't have opinions on films I haven't watched or music I haven't listened to. Because that would be an inane thing to do. Do you see where I'm going with this?
So all historians are able to basically bear witness to every single moment of say a given time period or individual they are studying? or all artefacts and all materials written on that subject? Yes they will apply great rigour to their subject, but quite a few of us on the Caf have actually spent time looking through most if not all the historic games that the old great players played in. Exactly if you haven't watched it or listened to it, don't offer an opinion. I have watched Pele play and watched substantial amounts of footage on him, therefore I can offer an opinion. Do you see where I am going with that?

It would be different if I was comparing him to say Leonidas of Brazil of the 1930's but Pele played in the television era, thanks to the internet - there is vast swathes of footage on him playing.

http://footballia.net/

Great website above, which has links to all sorts of games for historic matches.

As for Pele, here is a recent post on him:

Auction-Trade Madness Draft - QF: Raees/Invictus vs Skizzo

A truly complete player beyond compare IMO.
 

Peyroteo

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Yeah it’s about opinions. I just think If you put Eusebio in the current and recent Madrid teams with the better protection afforded and all things bring equal, he’d probably score as many.

He was faster, played with a heavier ball and played with a largely Portuguese team and still turned over the multi national Real Madrid side.

I love Ronaldo BTW;)
Before winning it in 62 they won it in 61 without Eusebio, he became the star of the team but that was a great Benfica team all round. He was a phenomenon, there aren't enough compliments about him but at this point Ronaldo has surpassed him. Based on their legacy, I'd have it as something like this.

1- Pele

2- Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona

3- Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Eusebio, Di Stefano

4- Platini, Yashin, Garrincha, Xavi, Iniesta, Zidane, Ronaldo Fenomeno, Gerd Muller, Van Basten, Matthaus, Baresi, Maldini, etc.
 

Gio

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I think I agree with this. There's definitely a football hipster factor when people big up footballers from decades ago, that they've probably never even watched play. Nostalgia also plays a part, hence I put Maradonna on a pedestal, even though my actual memory of him is fairly hazy. And the only way to get rid of all these biases is looking at the numbers and the stats of Messi and Ronaldo speak for themselves. Nobody else really comes close (unless they do? can any football hipster point out a former great who was as productive as these two, over such a long period of time?).

I think you've misused the word "hovel", mind you...
There's not a great deal of difference between a few of the greats in that respect. Puskas, Pele, Muller and Romario are all in the 700-800 range when you exclude friendlies from their totals. Eusebio, Zico and Di Stefano all roughly around the 500-600 mark, which is where Ronaldo and Messi are now. There are a few others up there, but for the sake of simplicity I've not included anyone from the pre-war or amateur eras.

So we can use the statistics argument, but it doesn't necessarily put today's two ahead of that half dozen.
 

NinjaFletch

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Close but not as good?
Puskas and Pele's records are both probably better, but then the debate inevitably comes down to how highly you weight goals scored in Hungary, at Madrid and at Santos in the 50s, 60s and 70s. I can't claim to be much of an expert on the topic, but from footage I have seen from then I'd strongly suspect that the standard was considerably worse.

The fact Puskas was overweight makes it hard to believe he would have enjoyed anywhere near the same success in the modern game: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...2350552/Little-fat-chap-a-football-giant.html
 

roonster09

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Great box player and goalscorer but he falls short in other area's compared to some of the best

A player who mostly has 1-2 touches when he receives the ball can not be a better player than someone like Zidane

Zidane dragged the team forward and when things were not going well he would take the ball and drive the team forward

Ronaldo is entirely team dependant, if Real are being outplayed and not getting the ball forward he won't be able to drag his team forward and make plays

As a goalscorer he's the second best I have seen and overall as a player he's in the top 5 I have seen in my lifetime
This is exactly what @Pogue Mahone @Kag have sort of said. If Zidane dragged the team forward, how much they won only 1 La Liga in 5 years? Why didn't he drag his team to finals of CLs or league titles on more than 1 occasion?

People remember the best games and assume they were as consistent in every game.
 

broccoli

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Yeah it’s about opinions. I just think If you put Eusebio in the current and recent Madrid teams with the better protection afforded and all things bring equal, he’d probably score as many.

He was faster, played with a heavier ball and played with a largely Portuguese team and still turned over the multi national Real Madrid side.

I love Ronaldo BTW;)
It's the same old story and that's why it's so difficult to compare absolute greats of football because we are dealing with very fine margins.

It's difficult to find a player with better execution than Cristiano in all history. If you take effectiveness and (silly) consistency in the equation along his off the ball movement, athletic prowess and desire, he is surely the best goal scorer of all time.

Why some people still prefer other players like Pele, Eusebio, Maradona? Because, despite Ronaldo being a fairly complete player (more than Messi) and despite having all the tools to do what these others did he chose to disregard controlling the game by himself and, instead, let his teammates do their part and focus mostly on goal scoring.

That was a clear career decision, in my opinion greatly influenced by SAF. It doesn't mean he would be able to glide past 3 players while walking like Pele did but we'll, that is why Pele is considered the goat. Players like him, Eusebio, Maradona, had a more poetic way of playing football and probably easier on the eye.

If I had to play a 1v1 against one of Pele, Maradona or Ronaldo, I'd probably say Maradona would be the hardest one to face because of his trickery and close control technique. But that would be right if the three players has the same body, which they don't and that's why Ronaldo with his height, pace and power would make him even more deadly.

You know why Ronaldo looks like he has tons of space when scoring? Because defenders can't really man mark him, not even Juve cbs will. He is just too good on individual duels so defenders prefer to give him space.
 

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One can say about him what you want but Ronaldo has shown consistency over such a long period and has now been influential in winning major silverware with 3 different teams. Manchester United, Real Madrid and Portugal. He should for that alone be in anyone's top 3 easily. He's the GOAT for me as things stand with Messi just behind him. I'd just love Messi to show his skills elsewhere consistently and lead Argentina to glory or at least close to glory. Either way we're lucky to have lived in a period where the 2 greatest footballers to ever grace the game have played and pushed each other to new heights season after season.
 

Jed I. Knight

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Considering he is producing these numbers for nearly 10 years, I would say easily in top 5.
Nearly 10 years? It's closer to a decade and a half at this point, which is absolute insanity. He's in the top tier, no question about it. I've watched football for close to 30 years, and Ronaldo and Messi are so far ahead of anyone else who has played football throughout this period that I just don't buy that other players have been even further ahead of the pack than these two. But like Pogue, I can't really comment on what happened before my time.
 

roonster09

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Nearly 10 years? It's closer to a decade and a half at this point, which is absolute insanity. He's in the top tier, no question about it. I've watched football for close to 30 years, and Ronaldo and Messi are so far ahead of anyone else who has played football throughout this period that I just don't buy that other players have been even further ahead of the pack than these two. But like Pogue, I can't really comment on what happened before my time.
His first high scoring season was 2008, I counted from that. So it's 10 years.

If we are talking about performing at superb standards then yeah, it's close to 15 years.
 

Vialli_92

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This is exactly what @Pogue Mahone @Kag have sort of said. If Zidane dragged the team forward, how much they won only 1 La Liga in 5 years? Why didn't he drag his team to finals of CLs or league titles on more than 1 occasion?

People remember the best games and assume they were as consistent in every game.
Played in different teams and eras

It is a fair point you are making but Real Madrid is much more than Ronaldo, Ronaldo is the cherry on top but if Marcello gets replaced by a normal player that will affect there results of Madrid just as much as losing Ronaldo

They are a complete team with Ronaldo as the focal point and every attack is aimed mostly towards him to deliver the goals

As a player I think there have been better but as a goalscorer he's one of the best no doubt about it

He makes the difference that he only needs a half chance to score regularly which is quite an asset to have for a team especially at CL level where goals don't come by easily
 

Inigo Montoya

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Nearly 10 years? It's closer to a decade and a half at this point, which is absolute insanity. He's in the top tier, no question about it. I've watched football for close to 30 years, and Ronaldo and Messi are so far ahead of anyone else who has played football throughout this period that I just don't buy that other players have been even further ahead of the pack than these two. But like Pogue, I can't really comment on what happened before my time.
That’s the key issue; if you can’t comment on things before ones time then you can just as easily state a claim
for one or two to be just as good or better based on a different observation .

In 5 years time I no doubt will be here waxing lyrical about Ronaldo and Messi being the best I’ve ever seen. Opinions
can and do change
 

Jed I. Knight

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His first high scoring season was 2008, I counted from that. So it's 10 years.

If we are talking about performing at superb standards then yeah, it's close to 15 years.
Yeah, fair enough. I guess he started banging them in at a ridiculous rate in the second half of the 2006/07 season. He's barely stopped since then.
 

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I’m only 35 so never saw Pele etc

In terms of footballers I’ve watched regularly (so since the early 90’s) - he’s no.2 behind Messi.
 

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Great box player and goalscorer but he falls short in other area's compared to some of the best

A player who mostly has 1-2 touches when he receives the ball can not be a better player than someone like Zidane

Zidane dragged the team forward and when things were not going well he would take the ball and drive the team forward

Ronaldo is entirely team dependant, if Real are being outplayed and not getting the ball forward he won't be able to drag his team forward and make plays

As a goalscorer he's the second best I have seen and overall as a player he's in the top 5 I have seen in my lifetime
So Zidane is in your top 5 presumably?
 

Jed I. Knight

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That’s the key issue; if you can’t comment on things before ones time then you can just as easily state a claim
for one or two to be just as good or better based on a different observation .

In 5 years time I no doubt will be here waxing lyrical about Ronaldo and Messi being the best I’ve ever seen. Opinions
can and do change
Yeah, of course I can't! But my rationale is that I find it hard to see how anyone else could've been as far ahead of the pack as these two have been over the last three decades. Based on discussions from before my time alone, they only two that come close are Pele and Maradona, but in reality I can't really argue with anyone who claims that Cruyff was a better player.

The notion that someone like Zidane was at the same level as Ronaldo (and Messi) though, that I'm well and truly qualified to laugh at!
 

roonster09

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Played in different teams and eras

It is a fair point you are making but Real Madrid is much more than Ronaldo, Ronaldo is the cherry on top but if Marcello gets replaced by a normal player that will affect there results of Madrid just as much as losing Ronaldo

They are a complete team with Ronaldo as the focal point and every attack is aimed mostly towards him to deliver the goals

As a player I think there have been better but as a goalscorer he's one of the best no doubt about it

He makes the difference that he only needs a half chance to score regularly which is quite an asset to have for a team especially at CL level where goals don't come by easily
You have answered why he should be GOAT tier. He decides games with half chances, that's very important attribute to have. His movement is just incredible.

Also you are sort of downplaying Ronaldo here, he is not just cherry on the top. He is vital cog in their machine. He has scored more than 50 goals in CL KO rounds alone and that's insane.
 

IhabX7

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He has no peer in NBA history. Ronaldo, has!
Messi is Kobe. Just kidding, no need for all this talk really. They both are, head and shoulders, the best of all time. In my mind they have surpassed everyone years ago even.
 

Raees

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You have answered why he should be GOAT tier. He decides games with half chances, that's very important attribute to have. His movement is just incredible.

Also you are sort of downplaying Ronaldo here, he is not just cherry on the top. He is vital cog in their machine. He has scored more than 50 goals in CL KO rounds alone and that's insane.
Not to mention you stick any other player in their side and it just wouldn't work as well. You can say 'oh put Inzaghi in there and it would still work' but it really doesn't. Ronaldo makes that team special, albeit he has become less and less involved with build up but he has made up for it by becoming more and more clutch and also a better team-mate (less of a cnut these days).
 

TheKaiser

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He's the best for me, GOAT. People will disagree and say others which is fair enough. But for my own part he's the best I've ever seen, live and on television. I love the man.
But then he should be called GIHESL (greatest I have ever seen live) and not GOAT (greatest of all time)? :D
 

Vialli_92

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You have answered why he should be GOAT tier. He decides games with half chances, that's very important attribute to have. His movement is just incredible.

Also you are sort of downplaying Ronaldo here, he is not just cherry on the top. He is vital cog in their machine. He has scored more than 50 goals in CL KO rounds alone and that's insane.
No doubt he's up there, for me if i'm ranking players i'm looking at the overall package I think Zidane was a better footballer but if I had the choice of Zidane or Ronaldo to win a final then I would put Ronaldo in my team as goals are what decides matches at the end of the day
So Zidane is in your top 5 presumably?
Yes definitely, he was the complete player and the guy who could make his whole team around him play better by just giving him the ball
 

roonster09

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Not to mention you stick any other player in their side and it just wouldn't work as well. You can say 'oh put Inzaghi in there and it would still work' but it really doesn't. Ronaldo makes that team special, albeit he has become less and less involved with build up but he has made up for it by becoming more and more clutch and also a better team-mate (less of a cnut these days).
Yeah, the way he has transformed his game over the years is just brilliant. Not brilliant as in pleasing to watch but something that suits his physicality. He has knee issues too, so altered his game from wing forward to like a CF.
 

Maagge

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Yes definitely, he was the complete player and the guy who could make his whole team around him play better by just giving him the ball
That's rather surprising.
From your initial criterion for Zidane being better than Ronaldo I think you need to reserve quite a few spaces in your top 5 for players like Laudrup and whoever else fits it.
A player who mostly has 1-2 touches when he receives the ball can not be a better player than someone like Zidane
 

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GOAT for me. Has delivered on all levels, competitions, in two of the best domestic leagues in Europe and on the international stage (which is all the more impressive considering how meh Portugal have been in the last decade or so). Only player in recentish history that can boast the same is Zidane.