Where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank amongst the pantheon of greats?

[Red_Aaron]

i think you can make the case for him being the best striker of all time, almost certainly of the modern era imo

If we consider the many other facets of the game though there are loads of players better than him in certain areas and one in particular who isn't that far behind him in terms of goal-scoring either.

 

[Pink Moon]

As things stand:

Tier 0: Pelé, Maradona, Messi ▲
Tier ½: Beckenbauer, Ronaldo ▲, Di Stéfano
Tier 1: Cruyff, Platini, Fenômeno, Puskás

Followed by the likes of Eusébio, Best, Müller, Maldini, Mané Garrincha, Xavi, Baresi, Matthäus and co. in slightly broader tiers.

▲ signifies that Ronaldo and Messi are the only variables on that list - and the only direction their profile could go in the future is up — with the current position on the tier-list being the minimum bar for what they've achieved, thus far.

The reason why I hesitate to put him in Tier 0 is that Cristiano just doesn't really have the air of magic of those three, and he hasn't had that since the early parts of his Madrid career. That isn't some damning criticism because he's pretty freaking imperious in his own right and terrorizes defenses like few others, but there's no getting around the argument that he doesn't quite share their ability to make an impact from seemingly anywhere on the pitch and carry his team outside of his goals with greatest-of-all-time caliber play-making and passing nous and technical flair. In fact, you'd hesitate to put him above Cruyff, Platini and co. as regards his general play as well. In terms of pure wow factor, he's a bit like the Jerome Bettis to their Barry Sanders - which is probably the most consistent criticism of him as a player as regards his historic profile, and he stands out as a glitch in the matrix in the pantheon of greats — almost like Müller on crack.

But his goal contributions are too overwhelming to sweep under the rug at this point, and you'd have to be a bit tone-deaf have to not rank him as probably the greatest European player with Kaizer Beckenbauer. Equally ridiculous is the consistency of performance in terms of tangible impact — one that is matched by only Pelé and Messi, and Puskás - who's oftentimes marginalized in a lot of discussions - even though he started performing at an excellent level for Kispest at a young age, then Honvéd — followed by 4 Piccichi titles and 3 European Cup titles for Madrid after joining the club at age 31, and that's aside from his record for Hungary, and European scorers - which Ronaldo will likely break in the immediate future. On a general note, it's pretty amazing that Cristiano's managed to shamelessly insert himself in the these discussions because for the longest time, it seemed like he would definitely play second fiddle to Messi and Barcelona's dominance across the era and languish on the edge of Top 10 of all time. Speaks volumes about his relentless drive to win, sheer strength of will, and superhuman focus. He's probably THE greatest of all time in that department with Pelé for football, and the likes of Jordan and Brady for sports at large.

Pretty much sums up my views too.

 

[Bwuk]

I’m 25 and he’s the best player I’ve ever seen.

I think it’s stupid to rate players who you haven’t seen play. I also think players nowadays are far more athletic, and the standard of the game has probably never been higher.

 

[Raees]

Even then the attackers on the list have the benefit of people only seeing their highlight reels or documentaries that idolize. You don't see their career end to end and the lows.

Basically everyone is talking shite and its obvious.

I don't understand this increasingly brexit-like tendency to celebrate ignorance. How dare people go research older players etc. If you want to stick to rating players you've seen from your own lifetime, there is nothing wrong with that but I don't see the need to denigrate those who have put the effort in to study past players.

 

[redmeister]

Here are 30 full games with him featuring for a start:
http://footballia.net/players/edson-arantes-do-nascimento

But the existence of games that someone can download on the internet doesn't explain what he's doing at the top of most lists. Realistically speaking if you had to guess what percentage of people who have him towards the top of their list have even seen him play a single 90 min game, would it be more than 2%? I think an estimate of about 1 in 50 football fans having see Pele play a full game would probably be on the high side, yet he'd be toward the top of the list of about 45 out 50 football fans.

 

[el3mel]

Top 5.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Looking at the numbers, the accomplishments, impact on teams and the game, longevity and iconic performances then he's clearly in the top 5 of all-time along with Maradona, Messi, Di Stefano and Pele. He surely has to rank as the greatest European player.

I only saw the tail end of Maradona's career being that I'm 32 so he's alongside Messi as the best I've seen and by a considerable distance. Messi may be more aesthetically pleasing and beloved but I tend to give a slight edge to Ronaldo in the head to head stuff because 1. He's dominated England (when it was the best league by a distance) & Spain 2. His Champions League record 3. He's won something with his country and his country isn't one that wins things 4. He's won more Champions Leagues (Messi didn't play past the last 16 in 2006). He's 33 and putting in these performances imagine if he takes Portugal far having a good World Cup or wins another Champions League or has another season or two with a goal a game? Ronaldo has been the first or second best player in the World since 2006 basically and has averaged slightly more than a goal a game for about a decade. Holy. feck.

He could be 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 I can't really qualify guys who I've not seen live like that but the numbers and accomplishments point to him being 1 or 2.

 

[SirAF]

Looking at the numbers, the accomplishments, impact on teams and the game, longevity and iconic performances then he's clearly in the top 5 of all-time along with Maradona, Messi, Di Stefano and Pele. He surely has to rank as the greatest European player.

I only saw the tail end of Maradona's career being that I'm 32 so he's alongside Messi as the best I've seen and by a considerable distance. Messi may be more aesthetically pleasing and beloved but I tend to give a slight edge to Ronaldo in the head to head stuff because 1. He's dominated England (when it was the best league by a distance) & Spain 2. His Champions League record 3. He's won something with his country and his country isn't one that wins things 4. He's won more Champions Leagues (Messi didn't play past the last 16 in 2006). He's 33 and putting in these performances imagine if he takes Portugal far having a good World Cup or wins another Champions League or has another season or two with a goal a game? Ronaldo has been the first or second best player in the World since 2006 basically and has averaged slightly more than a goal a game for about a decade. Holy. feck.

He could be 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 I can't really qualify guys who I've not seen live like that but the numbers and accomplishments point to him being 1 or 2.

Agreed.

 

[Pexbo]

The problem I have with that is that you would then need to consider guys like Roy Keane as being as good as Iniesta, Laudrup, et al. Because what he lacked in technique compared to his peers he more than made up for with his drive and will to win.

I'm fine with that.

 

[VeevaVee]

Numerical rankings are too subjective. I prefer tiers.

This was made in 2013. With regards to Ronaldo I agree with him being a level below the likes of Pele, Beckenbauer, Cryuff... I'd move Messi up one tier as well.

People always prefer to put old things as the best. Music is another where people always name older stuff when asked what the best of all time is and you only have to look at imdb top 200 to see it's similar with films too. Ronaldo is up there.

 

[Paxi]

It's really tiers, and he's probably in the top one. Hard to place Beckenbauer in the list of predominantly attacking players.
Tier 1: Pele, Maradona, Messi, C. Ronaldo and Di Stefano

Pele's got the best career — he matches Messi/Ronaldo's numbers and ridiculous consistency (more than a decade at the very top) and his international record is better, so for me he is still the GOAT, all things considered.
Maradona's club career is the least impressive of all 5, even though he achieved incredible things with very average Napoli. Yet when we talk about the highest individual peak, I'd probably stick with him in the 1986 World Cup form.
Di Stefano is the one that we don't have that much footage of. Enough to understand what kind of a player he was and his European Cup record is simply ridiculous — with only Cristiano being comparable in the whole EC/CL history. His international career is probably the worst of all.

A lot have been said about Messi/Ronaldo already. Their non-human consistency is only matched by Pele (when France Football reevaluated old Ballon D'Or awards to include non-Europeans he ended up with something like 8 or 9 Ballon D'Ors). Their international career isn't as good as Pele's or Maradona's, although overall Messi's performances in Copa and World Cup were great without being absolutely top class; same for Cristiano, who somehow won the international title but was nowhere near Platini/van Basten's level in that run. The difference in ability between the two is almost compensated by Cristiano's last few year heroics in the CL — without a doubt the biggest and most competitive contemporary tournament.

I think that Messi's and Ronaldo's body of work on the club level is already bigger than Cruyff's and Beckenbauer's. The latter had a greater international career, but, to be fair, he was lucky to play alongside Müller, Maier, Vogts, Seeler, Netzer etc. — and while he was the best (and the most consistent) of the lot, the difference between them weren't that big. If Messi had Müller in place of Higuain, he would've been a World Cup and multiple Copa America's winner already.

Yeah I don't have anything to add to that.

 

[mitchmouse]

very possibly the greatest ever

 

[paulscholes18]

GOAT Tier

 

[SwSw]

Disclaimer: I didn't make that.

However I'd place Xavi above the likes of Scholes and Pirlo, because of the way he dominated affairs in midfield, for both club and country. At a level the latter 2, for all their excellence, didn't reach.

I would say the players Xavi played with was a tad better than the cast surrounding Pirlo and Scholes.

For country, Scholes had to settle with lesser players and worst managers who shunted him to the left. Pirlo, in my opinion fared better since the italian team generally turn up and played as a team at the world cup.

At club level, is where i felt Xavi's accomplishment could be over blown since he's playing with players like Messi, Iniesta, Henry, Eto, Ronaldinho and etc.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

3 Year Peak Level
Tier 1 - Maradona, Messi, Pele, Cruyff, Beckenbauer,
Tier 2 - Fenomeno, Zico, Platini, Puskas, Di Stefano,


Career Achievements
Tier 1 - Pele, Maradona, Messi*

Tier 1.5 - Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Cristiano*

Tier 2 - Puskas, Zico, Platini, Fenomeno

For me context weakens both Cristiano and Messi in career achievements. By that I mean that their era coincided with a time when Real and Barcelona had a massive resource advantage over their competitors due to the unfair La Liga TV contracts. Barcelona could pay their golden generation whatever they wanted and Real could keep buying selfless WC players from all over to complement Cristiano (like Ozil, Benzema, Modric, etc). This to me is a greater advantage than just having a golden generation like Ajax and Bayern in the Cruyff/Beckenbauer era or Brazil with Pele.

 

[Red Stone]

What I don't get is that there seems to be a universal agreement that the Best Player Ever™ has to fit into the genius playmaker mold in some way and any player that doesn't is instantly disqualified from the discussion.

For me Ronaldo is without a shadow of a doubt on the same level as Pelé. He matches Pelé for goals both for club and country, at least if you take out those goals that Pelé scored in his back yard that he's decided to add to his total tally. He has shown his ability to score an unprecedented amount of goals in the Premier League, La Liga and most importantly the Champions League. In recent years he's also kept a 1-for-1 ratio for a rather mediocre Portugal side as well. It's proven beyond any doubt that when it comes to scoring goals, Ronaldo can do it in any competition, for any team and from anywhere on the pitch. In terms of major trophies won he has also been a huge factor in Real and United winning four Champions League titles and internationally he was the star man for Portugal during their winning run in 2016 and during Euro 2004 and WC 2006 where Portugal went far further than expected. Then there's the longevity, consistency, dedication to his sport and ability to adapt his game to stay at the top. It gets to a point where any attempt to discredit him seems to be petty nitpicking just to deny him his rightful place among the very best.

Sure, Pelé won three World Cups, and to be fair to him his performances in 1958 were unbelievable for a 17 year old kid, but the 1962 win was mostly down to Garrincha having arguably the second best tournament ever behind only Maradona '86 and the 1970 team was so good it would have walked the tournament even with my nan playing as striker. Put Ronaldo in any of those three teams and I don't think he would do any worse.

I rank Pelé comfortably among the four best players ever to play the game, but with all he's done in his career Ronaldo is right there next to him. I don't find playmaking to be intrinsically worth more in terms of footballing skill than scoring goals, or even goalkeeping or defending, so I don't see why a phenom like Ronaldo can't be a GOAT tier player, up there with Pelé and Maradona.

That being said, I rate Messi as better. He's close to Ronaldo in terms of scoring goals and is up there with the best playmaking geniuses of all time as well. For me no other player has managed to reach such high levels in two different areas of play. He's the GOAT at the moment, but at the moment Ronaldo seems to pull it slightly closer with each passing game. If he drags Real and Portugal to CL and WC wins this summer things will start getting sweaty at the top.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Messi is clearly the best player Football has ever seen in my opinion. But, Cristiano is the clear second right after that. They have both had a sustained dominance that we have not really seen before.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

What I don't get is that there seems to be a universal agreement that the Best Player Ever™ has to fit into the genius playmaker mold in some way and any player that doesn't is instantly disqualified from the discussion.

For me, yesterday is a great example. Watching that match Cristiano simply didn't look like the best player on the pitch. Isco did for me. His first goal was created by Isco and Marcelo's inter play and his second, while a fabulous finish, was the result of dominant team play. Real's midfield and defense were simply better individually and as a unit than Juventus which allowed Cristiano to be in the positions he was to score that goal.

And as good as it was, its important to remember that Mandzukic scored a similarly difficult goal in the final last year, Hugo Sanchez, Zlatan regularly scored acrobatic wonder goals and even Peter Crouch, Giroud and Mkhitaryan have scored goals that look as pretty as that one by Cristiano.

The other thing for me that hurts Cristiano compared to all time greats is that every year he consistently tops the Shots-per-Goal category. For me the fact he is taking more shots every year to score hurts him compared to all time clinical finishers like Pele and Muller or even Zico in his peak.

 

[bebeanderson]

What I don't get is that there seems to be a universal agreement that the Best Player Ever™ has to fit into the genius playmaker mold in some way and any player that doesn't is instantly disqualified from the discussion.

For me Ronaldo is without a shadow of a doubt on the same level as Pelé. He matches Pelé for goals both for club and country, at least if you take out those goals that Pelé scored in his back yard that he's decided to add to his total tally. He has shown his ability to score an unprecedented amount of goals in the Premier League, La Liga and most importantly the Champions League. In recent years he's also kept a 1-for-1 ratio for a rather mediocre Portugal side as well. It's proven beyond any doubt that when it comes to scoring goals, Ronaldo can do it in any competition, for any team and from anywhere on the pitch. In terms of major trophies won he has also been a huge factor in Real and United winning four Champions League titles and internationally he was the star man for Portugal during their winning run in 2016 and during Euro 2004 and WC 2006 where Portugal went far further than expected. Then there's the longevity, consistency, dedication to his sport and ability to adapt his game to stay at the top. It gets to a point where any attempt to discredit him seems to be petty nitpicking just to deny him his rightful place among the very best.

Sure, Pelé won three World Cups, and to be fair to him his performances in 1958 were unbelievable for a 17 year old kid, but the 1962 win was mostly down to Garrincha having arguably the second best tournament ever behind only Maradona '86 and the 1970 team was so good it would have walked the tournament even with my nan playing as striker. Put Ronaldo in any of those three teams and I don't think he would do any worse.

I rank Pelé comfortably among the four best players ever to play the game, but with all he's done in his career Ronaldo is right there next to him. I don't find playmaking to be intrinsically worth more in terms of footballing skill than scoring goals, or even goalkeeping or defending, so I don't see why a phenom like Ronaldo can't be a GOAT tier player, up there with Pelé and Maradona.

That being said, I rate Messi as better. He's close to Ronaldo in terms of scoring goals and is up there with the best playmaking geniuses of all time as well. For me no other player has managed to reach such high levels in two different areas of play. He's the GOAT at the moment, but at the moment Ronaldo seems to pull it slightly closer with each passing game. If he drags Real and Portugal to CL and WC wins this summer things will start getting sweaty at the top.

It's ok if you feel Ronaldo is on the same level as Pelé, but don't use these awful arguments. It's as bad as the Ronaldo tap in arguments.

 

[Bobski]

I hope football does not become as obsessed with ranking lists as fans of sports like Boxing and the NBA have become.

He is one of the best ever, among the very elite that has ever played the game, along with Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldo 9, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini and maybe Best and Charlton if I allow my Utd bias to speak. Ranking them in order, no, game has changed, roles have changed, can only really look at them against their contemporaries.

Ronaldo is inspirational. I love that he has never for one second in his career backed down from the challenge of Messi. I do believe Messi is the greater of the 2, most players would just accept it, not Ronaldo.

 

[Jeffthered]

I think we have to also consider how he has performed for his national team, who have been incredibly average, but he guided and led (because he did, even though he came off in the final..) them to a Euro 2016 triumph. I don't know if he will be as iconic as Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Beckanbauer, who all seemed to still hold a kind of 'magic' over the game of football.... is Ronaldo greater than Beckenbaur? Difficult to say, 'The Kaiser' was an amazing player and a huge influence on the game, same as Cruyff. These players were more than stats and goals...

..I suppose in the stats and goals era, Ronaldo has to be at the top with Lionel.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

I hope football does not become as obsessed with ranking lists as fans of sports like Boxing and the NBA have become.

He is one of the best ever, among the very elite that has ever played the game, along with Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Messi, Ronaldo 9, Zidane, Beckenbauer, Puskas, Di Stefano, Platini and maybe Best and Charlton if I allow my Utd bias to speak. Ranking them in order, no, game has changed, roles have changed, can only really look at them against their contemporaries.

Ronaldo is inspirational. I love that he has never for one second in his career backed down from the challenge of Messi. I do believe Messi is the greater of the 2, most players would just accept it, not Ronaldo.

The Messi has to win a World Cup to be considered the greatest does seem like an NBA type argument.

 

[giorno]

Top 6, below Maradona who is God, and i'll leave it at that

 

[Jeffthered]

Good shout re George Best too. Everyone (including all the great players...) seemed to suggest he was arguably the best player around. To a degree, George Best changed modern football.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Also @Invictus mentioning Platini and not Zico

 

[Revan]

Third behind Pele and Messi, for me. It might sound crazy but I have him ahead of Maradona. Maradona has his world Cup performances but on club level, it is not even close.

I think that Ron has a chance being remembered as the greatest ever, who knows how things will go.

 

[Revan]

Numerical rankings are too subjective. I prefer tiers.

This was made in 2013. With regards to Ronaldo I agree with him being a level below the likes of Pele, Beckenbauer, Cryuff... I'd move Messi up one tier as well.

There is absolutely no argument to put Cruyff, Di Stefano and Beckenbauer ahead of Ronaldo anymore. Bar that world Cup performance from Beckenbauer, Ronaldo dwarfs the others in any objective metric. I think that he has been so good for such a long time that the usual argument of 'I don't like his style' (which let us be fair, it is the only argument his critics have) should be put in the bin.

 

[Bobski]

The Messi has to win a World Cup to be considered the greatest does seem like an NBA type argument.

Those style of debates should not translate to football simply because the impact of one individual player in basketball is, by the nature of the game, higher than in football. I have seen Ronaldo in his prime for Portugal, play against top teams and barely get a touch because the rest of the team have been dominated so much. No shot clock, can not just inbound to your best player and let him do his thing. Your best player can dominate the entire game, make every key offensive decision.

World Cup debate is harsh, once every four years, single game knockouts.

 

[Revan]

Pele still the GOAT imo, key player in 3 world cup wins is unheard of, backed by a robust domestic career and the overall package just in terms of nearly all attributes as a footballer.

Ronaldo is top 5-10 for me.

He got injured in group stage in 1962 and didn't played in the remaining games. That world Cup was all about Garrincha.

Pele is great, but there is a large myth around him to the point where people put him on a tier of his own just because have heard other people doing so.

 

[bebeanderson]

Third behind Pele and Messi, for me. It might sound crazy but I have him ahead of Maradona. Maradona has his world Cup performances but on club level, it is not even close.

I think that Ron has a chance being remembered as the greatest ever, who knows how things will go.

These cross-era comparisons just don't work. Would Ron have his club performance if he played 10+ years at Sporting? Without seeing the ball against the big clubs, etc?
It's not that simple.

 

[bebeanderson]

He got injured in group stage in 1962 and didn't played in the remaining games. That world Cup was all about Garrincha.

Pele is great, but there is a large myth around him to the point where people put him on a tier of his own just because have heard other people doing so.

Pele actually gets underrated, because people are too simple minded to understand his club accomplishments.

The Intercontinental was a huge deal back then, and he dominated European clubs at their own turf. He won 2 out of 2 and stopped competing because Santos needed to tour the world to make money. If he continued to play the Intercontinental/Libertadores during his prime, he'd most likely have the most impressive club record in the world as well.

That's why he's in his own category for me.

 

[fishfingers15]

Pretty high. He's probably only behind Maradona, Pele and Messi. He is arguably the greatest European footballer.

 

[black country red]

its a united forum so its a yes from me along with georgie

 

[Revan]

These cross-era comparisons just don't work. Would Ron have his club performance if he played 10+ years at Sporting? Without seeing the ball against the big clubs, etc?
It's not that simple.

Of course they work. You can't choose the nation you're born (to some degree), but you can choose the team you play. If player A chooses the right team to maximise his ability, while player B doesn't, I find a bit unfair to penalise player A for being smart.

Also, Maradona hardly did wonders while he was playing for Barca. Him choosing to play for Napoleon shouldn't be an excuse for Ron essentially scoring 5 times as many goals on their careers.

 

[Red Stone]

World Cup debate is harsh, once every four years, single game knockouts.

And it means players from footballing minnows are at a huge disadvantage. There will never be a player good enough to help a country like Northern Ireland win a World Cup (sorry for the harsh truth to all Northern Irish on here), but Best is still one of the best players ever. On the other side of the spectrum, how high up on the list of the best players ever is the best German player from the 2014 team? It's probably Neuer, and he's barely one of the three best goalkeepers of his generation.

 

[Revan]

Pele actually gets underrated, because people are too simple minded to understand his club accomplishments.

The Intercontinental was a huge deal back then, and he dominated European clubs at their own turf. He won 2 out of 2 and stopped competing because Santos needed to tour the world to make money. If he continued to play the Intercontinental/Libertadores during his prime, he'd most likely have the most impressive club record in the world as well.

That's why he's in his own category for me.

I was more taking the example of him getting credit for that world Cup where he did feck all.

Let's not forget that he played in a regional league (in the best club in the world) for most of his career, and his stats barely match that of Ron and Messi.

He has two magnificent performances in world cups (in different positions) which is why it can be argued that he is still the greatest (actually, I have him as joined greatest with Messi) but I think that the distance between him and RoMessi has become really small, if there is actually any distance in the first place.

 

[Peyroteo]

For me, yesterday is a great example. Watching that match Cristiano simply didn't look like the best player on the pitch. Isco did for me. His first goal was created by Isco and Marcelo's inter play and his second, while a fabulous finish, was the result of dominant team play. Real's midfield and defense were simply better individually and as a unit than Juventus which allowed Cristiano to be in the positions he was to score that goal.

For me it was the exact opposite. 65 minutes in, Juve had been the better team, looked way more solid defensively, were controlling the midfield and they're 2-0 down. Isco was great in possession but the first goal aside he didn't add anything offensively, even for that goal did he really do anything special? He just put the ball in the box and then it's Ronaldo's and Benzema's movement that makes the difference, same for the second goal. Put a Maradona, Messi, Cruyff, Zidane, etc. there instead of Ronaldo and I geniunely don't think they even win that game nevermind by the margin they did. The way he impacts the game is very different from the way those players do but I think in games like yesterday it showed why it can be just or even more effective.

 

[Bobski]

I will say that I think both Ronaldo and Messi have seen their goal record inflated by modern circumstances. Major clubs being more financially dominant than ever allowing them to stockpile numerous great players, weakening the competition. Had lead to leagues with so much cannon fodder to run up goal totals. I watched Ronaldo 9 at Barca and Inter when he was at his peak and I don't think he could possibly have scored any more. Got 25 in Italy probably at his peak level, that would be a poor season for Messi/CR, but was a prolific season given the competition and defensive quality of the league.

These variations happen throughout the history of the game, making statistical comparisons much less valuable than they might seem.

 

[Revan]

Good shout re George Best too. Everyone (including all the great players...) seemed to suggest he was arguably the best player around. To a degree, George Best changed modern football.

He didn't get any vote when all winners of Ballon D'Or voted for the best ever in the end of the nineties. Not even from Sir Bobby and Denis Law. Where does the legend comes from that he is the best ever player according to past greats?

Interestingly, Cruyff ended in second place ahead of Maradona.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Messi, Pele, Ronaldo, Lingard and Maradona are probably the 5 best players to ever play the game. The order would depend on who you ask.