Where should Pogba and Rashford play?

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

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Wonder what the plan is with him. He clearly plays better and enjoys himself on the left. Asides that, him saying playing on the left works well for the balance of the team means it's certainly been noted by the coaching staff. Problem with him on the left is we'd end up shoehorning Rashford on the right where his performance drops.

It becomes a choice of do we play Rashford on the left where he is effective then shoehorn Pogba in the double pivot where he is a defensive liability. Or do we play Pogba on the left where he is effective then shoehorn Rashford on the right where his contribution drops. Either choice would upset the balance of the team so the third choice could be to drop one of them

We've been able to rotate Pogba and Rashford with Rashford now being second choice ST and RW to Cavani and Greenwood. And Pogba second choice at LW to Rashford. Martial is returning and would be our second choice striker. If Sancho (who can play RW and LW at a high level) is a target then I think the choice has been made for Pogba to go back to playing in the double pivot and we'd find him there more often than not next season

To clarify I'm not suggesting or against making our attacking depth even stronger. I just want to know the Cafs opinion on how they can all be rotated

 

[Pexbo]

Fortunately there is about 50 games in a season and we don’t play the same players and formation in every game. If Pogba stays and Sancho signs, sometimes it will be Pogba at LM, sometimes it will be Rashford at LWF, sometimes Rashford will play a more central role othertimed Pogba will play more centrally. I don’t think it will be the double pivot we will see Pogba in though, I think we will sign someone like Rice and play a diamond.

 

[Ridwando]

Cavani won't be playing every game. Rashford can be the striker in a setup with Pogba on the left. We'll still need Sancho for RW.

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

Fortunately there is about 50 games in a season and we don’t play the same players and formation in every game. If Pogba stays and Sancho signs, sometimes it will be Pogba at LM, sometimes it will be Rashford at LWF, sometimes Rashford will play a more central role othertimed Pogba will play more centrally. I don’t think it will be the double pivot we will see Pogba in though, I think we will sign someone like Rice and play a diamond.

This. I think united fans get way more hung up on players losing their place because signings or changes in formation etc.
Having 2 high quality players for a position is the kind of problem that top tier teams have.

If Pogba is a better fit there then lets play him there. If Rashford is a better fit then we play him instead.
If against some opponents 1 is more useful then great and vice versa.

Plenty of teams have more than 1 super high quality player in the same position.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Fortunately there is about 50 games in a season and we don’t play the same players and formation in every game. If Pogba stays and Sancho signs, sometimes it will be Pogba at LM, sometimes it will be Rashford at LWF, sometimes Rashford will play a more central role othertimed Pogba will play more centrally. I don’t think it will be the double pivot we will see Pogba in though, I think we will sign someone like Rice and play a diamond.

What's the point of spending 78m on Sancho if we are playing a diamond though. If the plan is really to play Pogba on the left and get Sancho that would leave Rashford Martial and Greenwood on the bench. Does anybody really see that happening realistically? I think Pogba would go back to the double pivot if Sancho comes. Ole Is aware of his weaknesses but it doesn't stop him from playing Pogba there

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

This. I think united fans get way more hung up on players losing their place because signings or changes in formation etc.
Having 2 high quality players for a position is the kind of problem that top tier teams have.

If Pogba is a better fit there then lets play him there. If Rashford is a better fit then we play him instead.
If against some opponents 1 is more useful then great and vice versa.

Plenty of teams have more than 1 super high quality player in the same position.

Who are these plenty teams that have at least two super high quality players in their attacking positions. I count just City and maybe Chelsea at a stretch but their attackers are definitely not super high quality

 

[Pexbo]

Who are these plenty teams that have at least two super high quality players in their attacking positions. I count just City and maybe Chelsea at a stretch but their attackers are definitely not super high quality

You’re still thinking in the context of a single game. Think of it in terms of a season where you want to challenge for 4 trophies, play all different types and levels of opposition and account for form and injuries. Accommodating Rashford and Pogba in the same side with both preferring the left is the least of our troubles.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

You’re still thinking in the context of a single game. Think of it in terms of a season where you want to challenge for 4 trophies, play all different types and levels of opposition and account for form and injuries. Accommodating Rashford and Pogba in the same side with both preferring the left is the least of our troubles.

I'm not saying I don't want it and I don't even see that as a problem. But I'm just wondering where the players will play whether starting or on the bench. What I don't see is Pogba on the left being his main position if we get an RW. I think Pogba will play mainly at the double pivot and LW will only be in particular games or circumstances

 

[Pexbo]

I'm not saying I don't want it and I don't even see that as a problem. But I'm just wondering where the players will play whether starting or on the bench. What I don't see is Pogba on the left being his main position if we get an RW. I think Pogba will play mainly at the double pivot and LW will only be in particular games or circumstances

So no change then? It’s Greenwood who would have more competition on the right, which is a good thing because we’ve played James there at times this season.

 

[roonster09]

Who are these plenty teams that have at least two super high quality players in their attacking positions. I count just City and maybe Chelsea at a stretch but their attackers are definitely not super high quality

Not sure what super high quality means, in any case Pogba and Rashford are not super high quality attackers either.

2016-17 Madrid won league, CL. They had players like Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Morata, Asensio, James, Isco as their attackers. Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Kovacic as their midfield options.

Last season Bayern had Lewandowski, Muller, Coutinho, Gnabry, Coman, Perisic as attackers. Kimmich, Thiago, Goretzka as midfield options.


Anyways Pogba won't be a LW all the time. It's always good to have options.

 

[BaillyBaillyBailly]

Who are these plenty teams that have at least two super high quality players in their attacking positions. I count just City and maybe Chelsea at a stretch but their attackers are definitely not super high quality

Perhaps "super high quality" was too strong. They have players of comparable quality to Rashford/Pogba/Sancho/Greenwood/Martial in wide attacking positions. Those players are also tactically fluid and can play in multiple roles across the front.
City: Mahrez, Foden, B. Silva, Torres, Sterling
Chelsea: CHO, Pulisic, Werner, Havertz, Ziyech
Bayern: Coman, Sane, Gnabry, Musiala
Real: Rodrygo, Vinicius, Asensio, Hazard, Vazquez, Isco(gone off the boil big time but was at that level).
Barca: Messi, Griezmann, Dembele, Trincao

United: Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Diallo, Pogba

Why would we not increase our quality in this area if possible?

I get that there are other areas of the team that need more attention, and for me RW is 3rd on our priority list but that doesn't mean that having plenty of options isnt of great value. Particularly in today's football world where games are played more regularly than ever.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Not sure what super high quality means, in any case Pogba and Rashford are not super high quality attackers either.

2016-17 Madrid won league, CL. They had players like Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Morata, Asensio, James, Isco as their attackers. Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Kovacic as their midfield options.

Last season Bayern had Lewandowski, Muller, Coutinho, Gnabry, Coman, Perisic as attackers. Kimmich, Thiago, Goretzka as midfield options.


Anyways Pogba won't be a LW all the time. It's always good to have options.

Not sure what super high quality means, in any case Pogba and Rashford are not super high quality attackers either.

2016-17 Madrid won league, CL. They had players like Ronaldo, Bale, Benzema, Morata, Asensio, James, Isco as their attackers. Kroos, Modric, Casemiro, Kovacic as their midfield options.

Last season Bayern had Lewandowski, Muller, Coutinho, Gnabry, Coman, Perisic as attackers. Kimmich, Thiago, Goretzka as midfield options.


Anyways Pogba won't be a LW all the time. It's always good to have options.

Perhaps "super high quality" was too strong. They have players of comparable quality to Rashford/Pogba/Sancho/Greenwood/Martial in wide attacking positions. Those players are also tactically fluid and can play in multiple roles across the front.
City: Mahrez, Foden, B. Silva, Torres, Sterling
Chelsea: CHO, Pulisic, Werner, Havertz, Ziyech
Bayern: Coman, Sane, Gnabry, Musiala
Real: Rodrygo, Vinicius, Asensio, Hazard, Vazquez, Isco(gone off the boil big time but was at that level).
Barca: Messi, Griezmann, Dembele, Trincao

United: Rashford, Martial, Greenwood, James, Diallo, Pogba

Why would we not increase our quality in this area if possible?

I get that there are other areas of the team that need more attention, and for me RW is 3rd on our priority list but that doesn't mean that having plenty of options isnt of great value. Particularly in today's football world where games are played more regularly than ever.

I agree with this . To clarify I'm not suggesting or against making our attacking depth even stronger. I just want to know the Cafs opinion on how they can all be rotated

 

[Bebestation]

I personally think Bruno Fernandes can play deeper like he did in sporting because that CAM/SS role he started with at United is disappearing bit by bit.

Pogba - Rice - Bruno
​

In a 433 allows Pogba to play LCM with the ability to get forward as an LAM.

Bruno can do focus abit on central CAM coming in from the right as Sancho will be providing the RW width.

 

[roonster09]

I agree with this . To clarify I'm not suggesting or against making our attacking depth even stronger. I just want to know the Cafs opinion on how they can all be rotated

IMO Ole should be braver when it comes to trusting other squad players and rotate (also can't blame him when you see the shit served by Telles, Brandon Williams and other squad players). We will play plenty of games where we will be favorites to win and play against packed defense. You can always play Pogba in midfield.

Also we have to find solution in the midfield to fit both Bruno and Pogba in 4-3-3. Maybe a good DM would help us.

In that case, DM, Bruno, Pogba in midfield, with Rashford, Cavani, Greenwood as our attack. If we sign Sancho, then we will have one more great option for wing position.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Fortunately there is about 50 games in a season and we don’t play the same players and formation in every game. If Pogba stays and Sancho signs, sometimes it will be Pogba at LM, sometimes it will be Rashford at LWF, sometimes Rashford will play a more central role othertimed Pogba will play more centrally. I don’t think it will be the double pivot we will see Pogba in though, I think we will sign someone like Rice and play a diamond.

Yup. Pogba should either on left side of a three man midfield or at LW/LM as may be needed. It's like City who have many class players who don't have a single position tired down - see Bernardo Silva or now even Sterling. Or Madrid when they had James, Bale and all.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I agree with this . To clarify I'm not suggesting or against making our attacking depth even stronger. I just want to know the Cafs opinion on how they can all be rotated

Just as Ole has been doing in recent times. It's perfect. Pogba is playing superbly. Rashford is scoring goals. Our left side is working. Now we need to fix the right and add Sancho.

 

[Lappen]

I personally think Bruno Fernandes can play deeper like he did in sporting because that CAM/SS role he started with at United is disappearing bit by bit.

Pogba - Rice - Bruno
​

In a 433 allows Pogba to play LCM with the ability to get forward as an LAM.

Bruno can do focus abit on central CAM coming in from the right as Sancho will be providing the RW width.

This I like!
We might "lose" some of the attacks from our "attacking" fullbacks in games against high pressing teams, but we will have a better offensive in total anyway. DvdB should suite this better as well in my opinion as an option to both Bruno and Pogba. And McT does it really good when he push forward.
Look at all the assists Bruno had in sporting in a simular position, and quite many went to the RW. (if Sancho reads this.)

 

[Marwood]

I personally think Bruno Fernandes can play deeper like he did in sporting because that CAM/SS role he started with at United is disappearing bit by bit.

Pogba - Rice - Bruno
​

In a 433 allows Pogba to play LCM with the ability to get forward as an LAM.

Bruno can do focus abit on central CAM coming in from the right as Sancho will be providing the RW width.

It seems to make sense but I'm not convinced.

Firstly that's a three that lacks a bit of pace.

You might get away with that if all three really looked after the ball but we know Bruno and Pogba can be risky, they can be sloppy. They don't care too much about possession.

On its day when everything clicks it would be great but I'm not sure as a three it's the right mix.

 

[Bebestation]

This I like!
We might "lose" some of the attacks from our "attacking" fullbacks in games against high pressing teams, but we will have a better offensive in total anyway. DvdB should suite this better as well in my opinion as an option to both Bruno and Pogba. And McT does it really good when he push forward.
Look at all the assists Bruno had in sporting in a simular position, and quite many went to the RW. (if Sancho reads this.)

I think playing 433,

Pogba-Rice-Bruno​

Allows us to be flexible tactically during the game.

I think we will play a 433/451/442 variation that starts with Bruno, Pogba and Rice in centre midfield.
(Maybe we will buy a striker replacing Cavani but I'm using him right now)

1) This is the 433 with the dribbling inside forwards trying to take on the defence

Rashford- Cavani -Sancho
Pogba-Rice-Bruno​

2) This is the 451 with the inside forwards starting a bit deeper

Cavani
Rashford-Pogba-Rice-Bruno-Sancho

​

3) This is the creative 442 that can happen after Rashford cuts in to make his forward lines, Pogba moves a bit wider as a LM/LAM and Sancho gets to be creative at RM/RAM/RW.

Rashford-Cavani
Pogba-Rice-Bruno-Sancho

​

I'm not saying we will play 3 formations - but it allows to be flexible and adaptable to how we play and who we play.

 

[ivaldo]

Fortunately there is about 50 games in a season and we don’t play the same players and formation in every game. If Pogba stays and Sancho signs, sometimes it will be Pogba at LM, sometimes it will be Rashford at LWF, sometimes Rashford will play a more central role othertimed Pogba will play more centrally. I don’t think it will be the double pivot we will see Pogba in though, I think we will sign someone like Rice and play a diamond.

When we sign Sancho that added creativity should allow us to play Pogba in Bruno's role to give Bruno a bit more rest, too.

 

[afatzp]

Rashy struggled in games under low block defense with no space for him to explore, so when we are the favorable side and try to create something under tight space, Pogba would be better choice at the left side, well linked up with Bruno and Luke ; on the other hand, when we are underdog to play counterattack, Rashy would be quite sharp running behind so it's better playing Rashy at left in that case.
With that said, I think Rashy should heavily work on his first touch . That's the key to get him to next level. From what I see so far, his first touch is quite unstable, something could be world class while mostly lead to slowing down the build up with extra touch to adjust or losing the ball.

 

[Marwood]

Seems a perfect situation to me. The two of them duke it out. Both are prone to long spells out of form, I wouldn't want to rely on just one of them for that slot next season. The two of them combined though, whoever is on form playing, seems excellent.

Plus Pogba can rotate with Bruno. We haven't seen it much this season as I think only one of them on the pitch means we lack a certain something.

But if we get Sancho for instance I think there's more flexibility to drop Bruno and play Pogba there.

Having said all that I still think Pogba will leave.

 

[Lappen]

I think playing 433,

Pogba-Rice-Bruno​

Allows us to be flexible tactically during the game.

I think we will play a 433/451/442 variation that starts with Bruno, Pogba and Rice in centre midfield.
(Maybe we will buy a striker replacing Cavani but I'm using him right now)

1) This is the 433 with the dribbling inside forwards trying to take on the defence

Rashford- Cavani -Sancho
Pogba-Rice-Bruno​

2) This is the 451 with the inside forwards starting a bit deeper

Cavani
Rashford-Pogba-Rice-Bruno-Sancho

​

3) This is the creative 442 that can happen after Rashford cuts in to make his forward lines, Pogba moves a bit wider as a LM/LAM and Sancho gets to be creative at RM/RAM/RW.

Rashford-Cavani
Pogba-Rice-Bruno-Sancho

​

I'm not saying we will play 3 formations - but it allows to be flexible and adaptable to how we play and who we play.

This
I hope this is the direction Ole/the club is trying to achieve but I am not sure, or to be honest, I don't think Ole wants a CDM. I think he wants to play with two like today, and will keep doing it even with Rice in the team.
For me a CDM is the key to get moore flexible in our style and to get the best out of Pogba, but also McT, Fred and DvdB.
Rashford is a attacking leftwing or one of the forward two like you say.

 

[Highfather_24]

There's no answer to this. The possible answers are :

- "There's a lot of games bla bla bla" but the fact of matter is, if we are playing Liverpool and we need to play our best XI, there's no way of putting them together in the same team without sacrificing their abilties(Pogba at CM, Rashford at RW). Also known as the "Grealish dilemma".

- Change formation to a midfield diamond. But that doesn't suit our team.

So fact of matter is we are stuck. Either one of them plays, or one of them has to sacrifice their best position, or the team has to suffer. No way out.

 

[Highfather_24]

People talk about "top teams having great depth", but before building depth, we need to improve our first XI. Our CB, DM, RW and arguably CF need to be upgraded first before thinking about strengthening the depth of our squad. Priorities.

No top team is leaving a player like Pogba or Rashford on the bench. Both of them know that when a big match comes around its them against each other. That's not healthy. Ideally Pogba, Bruno and Rashford should all be first choice.

 

[DWelbz19]

Rashford has to get better on the right, realistically.

Pogba on the left, Rashford right/upfront. Games where Pogba is in midfield/injured, Rashford back on the left.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Rashford hasn't played well enough to be a shoe in to the first eleven. If we don't sign a RW, he's probably the best option there but otherwise he needs to compete with Pogba for LW. We've looked at our best with Pogba out on the left though.

 

[roonster09]

Rashford has to get better on the right, realistically.

Pogba on the left, Rashford right/upfront. Games where Pogba is in midfield/injured, Rashford back on the left.

I think we should try Pogba on the right and Rashford on the left. Both are better from left but Rashford is better goal scorer and Pogba is a play maker. IMO Pogba can have similar impact from right side. He has this unique ability to just roll the ball and roll the opponent too from right side, which is so hard to defend.

 

[Pexbo]

I think we should try Pogba on the right and Rashford on the left. Both are better from left but Rashford is better goal scorer and Pogba is a play maker. IMO Pogba can have similar impact from right side. He has this unique ability to just roll the ball and roll the opponent too from right side, which is so hard to defend.

I’m sure these things are considered and tested during training but theoretically I don’t see why Pogba couldn’t emulate De Bruyne’s role at City and use his passing and crossing range from the right. I think it’s the way he carries the ball on the left though, his natural inclination to cut back and open the pick up to his right boot which isn’t natural on the opposite side of the field.

 

[cyberman]

Rashford has to get better on the right, realistically.

Pogba on the left, Rashford right/upfront. Games where Pogba is in midfield/injured, Rashford back on the left.

He will. We tried Marcus on the right before but our performances suffered and we quickly switched him back. Now, with Pogba playing like a beast, we can keep him there and let him get used to it

 

[GueRed]

Rashford is best as your modern Left-Wing Forward.

Pogba is an attacking midfielder, preferably and most effective from the left.
He cannot defend to save his life. Keep him free from defensive responsibilities as much as possible and keep him further up the pitch.

Last night against Roma in that deep central role, Roma players ran off him so fecking easily.

 

[MileStolar]

Squarepegster United at it again!

On the serious note I'd love to see midfield three with one holder and with Pogba and Bruno playing left and right 8s and two wide forwards on top of them.

But that'll never work as there's no player in the world who could play in midfield by himself, like we saw Fred try last night in Rome...

 

[roonster09]

I’m sure these things are considered and tested during training but theoretically I don’t see why Pogba couldn’t emulate De Bruyne’s role at City and use his passing and crossing range from the right. I think it’s the way he carries the ball on the left though, his natural inclination to cut back and open the pick up to his right boot which isn’t natural on the opposite side of the field.

Yeah, he carries the ball well but when it comes to assists or chances created I feel he is better from right side. I don't have any data that supports my point, just going by few very memorable assists/moments.

When he plays on the left, he does very well in the build up play but I don't remember him beating the players like he did to Kos, Dier and vs Newcastle. Those were brilliant assists.

Overall I feel he is better on the left but playing him on the right and Rashford on the left gives us better balance than Rashford on the right. Or we can just drop Rashford and play Greenwood.

 

[Spaghetti]

Pogba is arguably the best player we have and, in my opinion, the best player should play in his best position.

Rashford has been poor left, right and centrally in 2021.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

I’m sure these things are considered and tested during training but theoretically I don’t see why Pogba couldn’t emulate De Bruyne’s role at City and use his passing and crossing range from the right. I think it’s the way he carries the ball on the left though, his natural inclination to cut back and open the pick up to his right boot which isn’t natural on the opposite side of the field.

There was one game this season where Pogba played from the right. It was against Liverpool at Anfield Road. I think we played something like this:

Rashford
Martial-Bruno-Pogba

And Pogba was our best player in that game imo. I would like to see more of Pogba on the right if we play McFred, Pogba and Rashford. There is also always the possibility to interchange during games. 15 minutes Rashford on the left and Pogba on the right, then they could switch sides for a while.

I also think the narrative that Rashford can't play on the right is a bit overrated. Of course, he clearly is more comfortable and natural on the left, but it's not like he loses all of his football ability on the right.

 

[Redrum1982]

The more I see Pogba play further up the more I'm convinced he'd make a great false 9. Excellent hold up play, the way he brings others into play, ability to drop and play a killer ball, causes defenders trouble in the air with his physicality and aerial prowess.

 

[Spaghetti]

Squarepegster United at it again!

On the serious note I'd love to see midfield three with one holder and with Pogba and Bruno playing left and right 8s and two wide forwards on top of them.

But that'll never work as there's no player in the world who could play in midfield by himself, like we saw Fred try last night in Rome...

Two holding midfielders, Pogba + Bruno, then Rashford and Greenwood up front who naturally go wide. Could that work?

 

[DWelbz19]

I think we should try Pogba on the right and Rashford on the left. Both are better from left but Rashford is better goal scorer and Pogba is a play maker. IMO Pogba can have similar impact from right side. He has this unique ability to just roll the ball and roll the opponent too from right side, which is so hard to defend.

Not sure about that. Pogba on the left plays the role a lot like Grealish - wide playmaker. Pogba is a stronger passer, whilst Grealish is the better carrier/foul magnet. Much like Rashford, Pogba’s play is halved when he plays on the right. It’s the same for him when he’s playing RCM over the left too.

I am a big fan of Rashford as you know, but I feel it boils down like this:
Pogba on the left = respectable G/As, general performance of himself and the team in a creative sense is raised.
Rashford on the left = great G/As, general performance of himself and the team in a general sense is about regular.

I think the general rhythm to our play is better with Pogba on the left. I’d also say Pogba is a better player (I’d say he’s our best, but that’s another debate) and as a result Rashford is the one who’d have to compensate on the right because of it.

 

[roonster09]

Not sure about that. Pogba on the left plays the role a lot like Grealish - wide playmaker. Pogba is a stronger passer, whilst Grealish is the better carrier/foul magnet. Much like Rashford, Pogba’s play is halved when he plays on the right. It’s the same for him when he’s playing RCM over the left too.

I am a big fan of Rashford as you know, but I feel it boils down like this:
Pogba on the left = respectable G/As, general performance of himself and the team in a creative sense is raised.
Rashford on the left = great G/As, general performance of himself and the team in a general sense is about regular.

I think the general rhythm to our play is better with Pogba on the left. I’d also say Pogba is a better player (I’d say he’s our best, but that’s another debate) and as a result Rashford is the one who’d have to compensate on the right because of it.

I hope we play Greenwood on the right than Rashford. He gives better balance to the team.

 

[Renegade]

Pogba was always a left sided 8. It’s annoying we rarely played the 433 and let him grow in that position. If I’m not wrong I’m sure he played that position when Ole took over as caretaker and was incredible. He’ll always be hit and miss in the double pivot as he isn’t great defensively.
Could Bruno play as the right sided 8?