Where would you rank this Man City side now?

Treble

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Strongly disagree. It's not a top 6 in any sense of the word other than literal. Technically United/Arsenal/Chelsea are part of the 'top 6'. Standings wise. But calling them a 'top 6' indicate they are on some elite tier. They are not. Aston Villa and Everton in 08 could have easily taken points off of Arsenal/Chelsea/ and United. In fact, I will favor both clubs to beat United of 2019 7 out of 10 times. City's run have been helped by the incredible decline of United/Chelsea/Arsenal.
United 19 and Arsenal 19 have muuuuch better players than Villa 08 and Everton 08. United played in the CL quarters, beat Juventus and PSG away, Arsenal are in the EL final. Villa and Everton weren't close to that level.
 

andyox

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So Pep just came out with this declaration.

"“I know we will be judged at the end on whether we win the Champions League,” said Guardiola. “I know unless we do that it will not be enough. "

To the surprise of no one. Pep made the point that so many posters here are making.



Pep will disagree with you. Here is his thoughts on what he was hired to do and how he will be judged.

"

"“I know we will be judged at the end on whether we win the Champions League,” said Guardiola. “I know unless we do that it will not be enough. This comes with me. I know that."

So Pep just pretty much stated it will not be enough unless he wins the Champions League. To be honest, this has been common sense all along. No club in Europe hire a manager to build a domestic dynasty with zero ambitions of Europe. That makes no sense.

Even Pep knows, unless you win the CL along with multiple PL'S. You CANNOT be compared to the great teams of the past. This might not seem 'fair' but it is what it is.
Obviously you're on the wind-up, but you're deliberately taking what Guardiola said completely out of context here. @CognitiveNeuro 's post was about the owners, and whether they hired Guardiola specifically to win the CL (and therefore if they prioritise it over the PL). Guardiola's quotes that came out today, which you've quoted in part, were clearly about the media and how they will judge his/City's success or otherwise. That's why he also mentioned Barcelona and Bayern Munich. The media has expected him to win the CL at each club he's been at, and therefore he's been judged negatively for not winning it at Bayern and City.
 

CognitiveNeuro

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So Pep just came out with this declaration.

"“I know we will be judged at the end on whether we win the Champions League,” said Guardiola. “I know unless we do that it will not be enough. "

To the surprise of no one. Pep made the point that so many posters here are making.



Pep will disagree with you. Here is his thoughts on what he was hired to do and how he will be judged.

"

"“I know we will be judged at the end on whether we win the Champions League,” said Guardiola. “I know unless we do that it will not be enough. This comes with me. I know that."

So Pep just pretty much stated it will not be enough unless he wins the Champions League. To be honest, this has been common sense all along. No club in Europe hire a manager to build a domestic dynasty with zero ambitions of Europe. That makes no sense.

Even Pep knows, unless you win the CL along with multiple PL'S. You CANNOT be compared to the great teams of the past. This might not seem 'fair' but it is what it is.
He never said that is why he was hired. He said he will be judged by the media if he wins it.
He's talking about the media and general fan population. I'm talking about the owners.

Can you read and understand things?
 

Raebareliwale

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Looking at the quality of current premier league teams, and the point tally of the top 2 in this league, without a shadow of doubt, this Manchester City team is the best in domestic terms.

United 08 squad was pretty damn good but they never faced a competition like how this City team faced from Liverpool (97 points OMG).

Similarly United 08 never dominated the league like this City team did over a period of 2 seasons.

The standard that City have setup over such a competitive period in the premier league is quite unbelievable to be fair.

I am not denying that City need to do better in Europe but without VAR, it could have been a different story for us this year.
 
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jackwanson

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He never said that is why he was hired. He said he will be judged by the media if he wins it.
He's talking about the media and general fan population. I'm talking about the owners.

Can you read and understand things?
No disrespect, but who cares what the owners want in a greatest of all times debate? The greatest of all time teams are judged by a combination media/fans/general population/critics/other footballers. Not the owners of Man City. Pep is stating what everyone already stated, he WILL be judged by the Champions League. As will the greatness of this team. He have failed(and horribly to be honest) so far. He also states in that interview how the champions league is much harder than the PL, hence why they don't win as often.

"In this club, the points record and the domestic competitions is incredible, but the Champions League we don't win quite often compared to the other ones because the teams are so good, the competition is so demanding but we want to win it."


Please don't try to twist this quote into some other hidden meaning. It's about as black and white as you can get it. Being extremely generous here, this Man City squad is top 5 all time in the PL. But the gap between them and United 99 and 08 is massive and will continue to grow as they almost certainly fail in the CL again next year. I'm predicating some random Quarter Finals exit against Inter or something.
 
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Eire Red United

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Domestically they’re the best team to play in England, can’t deny that with their points and goals totals the past 2 years. It’d be hard not to have with the money they’ve spent they can nearly field 2 super strong teams, but in a one off game our 08 team would rip them to pieces, Ronaldo would have an absolute field day with that defence, same goes for our 99 team.
 

CognitiveNeuro

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No disrespect, but who cares what the owners want in a greatest of all times debate?
Pep does. Fans don't fire a manager. The owner does. If the owner says he wants the CL, Pep is under pressure. The owners didn't. He has repeatedly said this.

The greatest of all time teams are judged by a combination media/fans/general population/critics/other footballers. Not the owners of Man City.
Ofcourse but the media isn't paying Guardiola to do a job. The owners are paying him to do a job.

Pep is stating what everyone already stated, he WILL be judged by the Champions League. As will the greatness of this team. He have failed(and horribly to be honest) so far.
Ofcourse he will be judged by the media. Every manager is judged by the media. This doesn't mean he has to accomplish the media's objectives. His job is literally to accomplish and fullfil the objectives of his employer, the owners.

Not sure if you're just trolling now.

I think honestly, the owners has seen progress and believe they will win the CL under Pep. If they do is another thing. You have to be crazy to think Pep is doing a bad job :lol:
 

wattsy7

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Looking at the quality of current premier league teams, and the point tally of the top 2 in this league, without a shadow of doubt, this Manchester City team is the best in domestic terms.

United 08 squad was pretty damn good but they never faced a competition like how this City team faced from Liverpool (97 points OMG).

Similarly United 08 never dominated the league like this City team did over a period of 2 seasons.

The standard that City have setup over such a competitive period in the premier league is quite unbelievable to be fair.

I am not denying that City need to do better in Europe but without VAR, it could have been a different story for us this year.
United won the league 3 years in a row from 2006/07 to 2008/09, beating a Chelsea side arguably as good as the current City side & definitely better than the current Liverpool team, even the Liverpool side of 08/09 was as good as the current Liverpool team.
 
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ExecutionerWasp001

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Looking at the quality of current premier league teams, and the point tally of the top 2 in this league, without a shadow of doubt, this Manchester City team is the best in domestic terms.

United 08 squad was pretty damn good but they never faced a competition like how this City team faced from Liverpool (97 points OMG).

Similarly United 08 never dominated the league like this City team did over a period of 2 seasons.

The standard that City have setup over such a competitive period in the premier league is quite unbelievable to be fair.

I am not denying that City need to do better in Europe but without VAR, it could have been a different story for us this year.

What are you talking about. The PL was woeful this year. You've had 1 good team, 1 lucky team & the rest were diabolical. This is the reason both you & Liverpool racked up 90 pts + Your cup runs were also incredibly easy with you only facing 1 top team in the LC & FAC.

Where do you get the impression we never faced any competition in 2008. There was 11pts separating 1st & 4th at seasons end. There was only 4pts separating 1st & 3rd. This would be classed as a competitive league. We never dominated the league as you have due to the league being alot more competitive. The poor state of the PL combined with your State funding are the reasons why you have had 2 good seasons.

You have not created a league standard. You have merely used financial doping to distort the league. The only way other clubs can reach these levels is to find a rich sap to throw a few Billion their way without expecting a return.
 
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Raebareliwale

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United won the league 3 years in a row from 2006/07 to 2008/09, beating a Chelsea side arguably as good as the current City side & definitely better than the current Liverpool team, even the Liverpool side of 08/09 was as good as the current Liverpool team.

That Chelsea side was not even close to this City side.
Look at the points that the current City side has earned in the past 2 seasons. Its unmatched in history.
Current Liverpool side is a CL finalist 2 years running. R you sure that Chealse and Liverpool 08/09 were as good as the current Liverpool?
I certainly don't.
 

CognitiveNeuro

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United won the league 3 years in a row from 2006/07 to 2008/09, beating a Chelsea side arguably as good as the current City side & definitely better than the current Liverpool team, even the Liverpool side of 08/09 was as good as the current Liverpool team.
No offense but what makes that Chelsea side better than the current City or Liverpool side?

City and Liverpool both finished with much higher points in the domestic leagues and Chelsea never won anything in Europe during that time. Liverpool at least are in the final.

Also as a Liverpool fan, this Liverpool side is much better than that Liverpool side. The Liverpool side had, maybe, a few better players but this Liverpool side has a better TEAM if you know what I mean.
 

wattsy7

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No offense but what makes that Chelsea side better than the current City or Liverpool side?

City and Liverpool both finished with much higher points in the domestic leagues and Chelsea never won anything in Europe during that time. Liverpool at least are in the final.

Also as a Liverpool fan, this Liverpool side is much better than that Liverpool side. The Liverpool side had, maybe, a few better players but this Liverpool side has a better TEAM if you know what I mean.
That Chelsea side was not even close to this City side.
Look at the points that the current City side has earned in the past 2 seasons. Its unmatched in history.
Current Liverpool side is a CL finalist 2 years running. R you sure that Chealse and Liverpool 08/09 were as good as the current Liverpool?
I certainly don't.
I never said it was better than the current City side, I said it was arguably just as good. I would rank the current Man City higher, but only just.

That Chelsea side is 100% better than the current Liverpool side though, I have no doubt about that. Chelsea got to the Champions League final in 08 losing to an all time great United side, only lost on pens in the semi in 07 and only lost to an all time great Barca on away goals in the semi of 09, all whilst getting around 85 points every season in a tougher league and winning 2 FA cups and a League Cup in that 3 year period.

If I had to I probably would rank the current Liverpool higher than 2008/09 Liverpool, but it is incredibly close.

Without taking anything away from both teams, because they are great sides, but I think the points tallies really flatter both Liverpool and Man City. Points were harder to come by 10/15 years ago, but i’ve made this & similar points multiple times in this thread already, it’s getting tiring.
 

Tostao_80

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What are you talking about. The PL was woeful this year. You've had 1 good team, 1 lucky team & the rest were diabolical. This is the reason both you & Liverpool racked up 90 pts + Your cup runs were also incredibly easy with you only facing 1 top team in the LC & FAC.

Where do you get the impression we never faced any competition in 2008. There was 11pts separating 1st & 4th at seasons end. There was only 4pts separating 1st & 3rd. This would be classed as a competitive league. We never dominated the league as you have due to the league being alot more competitive. The poor state of the PL combined with your State funding are the reasons why you have had 2 good seasons.

You have not created a league standard. You have merely used financial doping to distort the league. The only way other clubs can reach these levels is to find a rich sap to throw a few Billion their way without expecting a return.
You cant run away from the facts. 100 points in 1 season and 198 in 2 seasons is s new standard. Its never been done before. No English team over the last 100 years has been as dominant domestically over a 2 year, or indeed 1 year span.
 

Badenfutbolfan

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Hard to argue with 198 points in 2 seasons. I think this City team is the best team in premier league history. But I might be a bit biased :)
 

tjb

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I would rate it like this:

1. Treble team (97-2001)
2. 06-09 United
3. Pep's City
4. Chelsea 04-06
5. Arsenals Invincibles (01-05)
I will start by saying that the invincibles are overrated.Never at any point were they considered the best in the world like the others had been, in addition, their success was not sustained, and their inability to match european performances to league performances highlighted the limitations of the team. At this level, we are dealing with the best teams in league history, so even slight issues have to be highlighted. That Arsenal team could not dominate even the third or fourth placed teams of other leagues at the time. They were usually beaten away from home, and had issues of inconsistency in Europe. In the premier league, they could get away with this because of the difference in class between them and the other teams in the league outside the top three, however in europe, their actually class value became more obvious. In addition they did not have as much depth as any of the other great teams or as good a right hand side ( which is big enough to create a deviation as the other teams have near perfect starting 11s). In addition, Chelsea usurped them a year later, quite easily and with more success on both domestic and european fronts.

The Chelsea team during Mourinho's run were dominant and much better than their competitors in the same way utd's treble and pep's city have been. They benefited, like the invincibles, from facing a rebuilding manchester united, and were never truly the best team in the world despite their domestic dominance, as Milan, Juventus and Barcelona had better claims to that throne. In addition, the 06-09 utd side usurped them despite the fact that most of the squad of the 04-06 run were still in their prime.

Pep's city has won everything domestically and has done so in a dominant manner. In addition, the strength of the league has risen quickly in the two seasons they have dominated, which makes it more impressive, as the league is now stronger than at any point outside of the 2006-2011 teams. However, they have not been successful in europe, and have usually been beaten by teams from the EPL when eliminated. I believe they have the most depth amongst all the teams, but also a much inferior defence, which has been protected by probably the most dominant midfield of any of the teams. I believe in a one off game they would handily beat Arsenal's invincible's as their possession football would inspire the same difficulties arsenal had in the champions league during that era, but would lose to the other 3 teams. I feel they would have won the league against all the teams except from the 2008 team, since that team could almost match their depth. The treble and 06-09 teams were dominant against the top sides of their era whilst also dominating their leagues. Despite me thinking city are the best team in the world, they have yet to show it against any other contenders for the throne besides liverpool, maybe they will soon, but as of now, they have not.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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You cant run away from the facts. 100 points in 1 season and 198 in 2 seasons is s new standard. Its never been done before. No English team over the last 100 years has been as dominant domestically over a 2 year, or indeed 1 year span.
I don't know how i can make things any clearer for you. The stats & assertions i've posted in previous posts clearly show that Utd 99/08 were better than this current City side. You are absolutely right that City are creating new standards in the PL. When using this logic though you would have to conclude that Armstrong set new standards in the TDF or Marion Jones in Athletics.


Can someone tell me why pep guardiola refused to come to man utd
Pep is probably the cleverest out there at picking his jobs. Would you have come to Utd if you were Pep?

He would have been coming to Utd trying to step into the greatest manager of all times shoes with a huge amount of expectation on his shoulders. He would also have been working with a limited transfer budget & penny pinching owners. The City job was the best move he could have made. He had no giants footsteps to follow & therefore expectations were lower. He's the highest paid manager in the world & has an unlimited transfer budget. He's also under a lot less media scrutiny at City than he would have been at Utd. This makes the job alot easier.
 

Lay

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They would beat their 1990s team 10-0 that’s for sure.
 
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WensleyMU

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Where ever they rank in comes with a *

* Achieved through corruption

Also, the state of some "United" fans in here.
 

Horace Pinker

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Clearly the best domestic team ever., by far. this team would have won every premier league since 93. I have no qualms saying the 99 treble was bigger though but at home we are easily the best.
 

nore1975

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Clearly the best domestic team ever., by far. this team would have won every premier league since 93. I have no qualms saying the 99 treble was bigger though but at home we are easily the best.
Your domestic dominance is unfortunately tainted by the suspicion of financial doping which renders it meaningless if its the respect of their peers City are after.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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Clearly the best domestic team ever., by far. this team would have won every premier league since 93. I have no qualms saying the 99 treble was bigger though but at home we are easily the best.
Many of our teams would have decimated this City team let alone our 99 & 08 teams. You would have won a few titles granted but we would still have won the lions share. The ruthlessness & will to win of many SAF teams is something that will probably never be seen again in the PL. The high line this City team play would have been manor from heaven for us in Derby games. We would have cut through you at will with the fluidity of our counter attacking.
 

Gio

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I don't know how i can make things any clearer for you. The stats & assertions i've posted in previous posts clearly show that Utd 99/08 were better than this current City side. You are absolutely right that City are creating new standards in the PL. When using this logic though you would have to conclude that Armstrong set new standards in the TDF or Marion Jones in Athletics.
The crux of your point though was that this is a weak PL. What evidence do we have for that? Especially when there are four English teams in the two European finals (none of which are City further emphasising the standard of the competition), which is basically unprecedented in the modern era.
 

ExecutionerWasp001

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The crux of your point though was that this is a weak PL. What evidence do we have for that? Especially when there are four English teams in the two European finals (none of which are City further emphasising the standard of the competition), which is basically unprecedented in the modern era.
I will say again, the CL & EL cannot be used as barometers for the quality of the PL. The quality of the PL is determined by the teams & games within it. I really don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that the PL is at it's strongest now. Utd are a case in point. We have had a 7th & 2 6th places in the last few years.
 

GhastlyHun

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I will say again, the CL & EL cannot be used as barometers for the quality of the PL. The quality of the PL is determined by the teams & games within it. I really don't know how anyone could come to the conclusion that the PL is at it's strongest now. Utd are a case in point. We have had a 7th & 2 6th places in the last few years.
The clubs at the top end of the PL probably have never had greater combined strength. United's current shitness is in no way a case in point against that.
 

Horace Pinker

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Your domestic dominance is unfortunately tainted by the suspicion of financial doping which renders it meaningless if its the respect of their peers City are after.
So all of liverpools trophies are meaningless then? they regularly spent 10/15x their revenue from 1965 to 1988 all through littlewoods pools owner investment. They were a yoyoing 2nd division club before that. What about when Danny Fitzman ploughed 10s of millions of his own money into Arsenal in the mid 90s that led to all their trophies? or AC Milan with owner investment? what about the state funded Barca and Madrid? or are you just referring to City who after 142 years had the rules changed overnight on them? "respect of their peers" give me a break. It's a corrupt cartel and you and everyone on this site knows it. FFP is really tackling owner debt isn't it, ask Bolton eh.
 

Maccataq

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Treble team is the best ever. They lost only 4 games that season (5 if you count the Charity Shield). If you want to win all trophies then you make sacrifices in the right places.

This City team lost 4 league games and 2 CL games. They had easy draws in the cups and played very strong teams, you could even point to favourable draws in the CL too with the likes of Schalke, Hoffenheim, Shakhtar and Lyon. As good as they are, even Spurs isn't the hardest draw they could have had.

On the other hand, the Utd treble team's achievement was unparalleled and aside from the obvious trophy haul, played a weakened side in the League Cup and so went out; it wasn't really a squad game in those days to the extent it is now (look at our bench for the CL final!); faced a brilliant Arsenal team in the league who could well have won the domestic double; faced Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea in the FA Cup and crucially, Bayern, Barca, Inter, Juve and Bayern again in the CL!

What City have done this past 2 seasons is highly impressive but comes with a oil funded, financial doping caveat.
 

nore1975

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So all of liverpools trophies are meaningless then? they regularly spent 10/15x their revenue from 1965 to 1988 all through littlewoods pools owner investment. They were a yoyoing 2nd division club before that. What about when Danny Fitzman ploughed 10s of millions of his own money into Arsenal in the mid 90s that led to all their trophies? or AC Milan with owner investment? what about the state funded Barca and Madrid? or are you just referring to City who after 142 years had the rules changed overnight on them? "respect of their peers" give me a break. It's a corrupt cartel and you and everyone on this site knows it. FFP is really tackling owner debt isn't it, ask Bolton eh.
None of Liverpool's triumphs have ever had a whiff of financial impropriety hanging over them. So unfortunately your post is pointless. Even United when dominating the league in the nineties and noughties never had any hint of financial impropriety about them. As long as City are bankrolled (financial doping) by a country which abuses human rights and condemns homosexuality it will never be respected. Nobody outside of City respect or admire what you have achieved. Even I as a passionate Liverpool supporter would tip my hat to the level of success Ferguson had. I would even admire United winning the treble back in 1999. Arsenal going the season undefeated in 2003-04.

The AC Milan team of the late 80's is lauded as one of the greatest club sides ever and rightly so. None of the sides you chose to mention from the EPL ever outspent other teams to the extent City have.
 
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adexkola

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Your domestic dominance is unfortunately tainted by the suspicion of financial doping which renders it meaningless if its the respect of their peers City are after.
I'm sure they don't give a shit. Neither should they.

Chelsea 10 years on are seen as kosher. The same will happen to City's accomplishments.
 

nore1975

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I'm sure they don't give a shit. Neither should they.

Chelsea 10 years on are seen as kosher. The same will happen to City's accomplishments.
Afraid not. Their is something odious about the source of finance which has propelled City to their latest triumphs. There was jealousy I imagine regarding Abramovich's triumph's but never any serious issues over the financing itself.
 

Horace Pinker

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None of Liverpool's triumphs have ever had a whiff of financial impropriety hanging over them. So unfortunately your post is pointless. Even United when dominating the league in the nineties and noughties never had any hint of financial impropriety about them. As long as City are bankrolled (financial doping) by a country which abuses human rights and condemns homosexuality it will never be respected. Nobody outside of City respect or admire what you have achieved. Even I as a passionate Liverpool supporter would tip my hat to the level of success Ferguson had. I would even admire United winning the treble back in 1999. Arsenal going the season undefeated in 2003-04.

The AC Milan team of the late 80's is lauded as one of the greatest club sides ever and rightly so. None of the sides you chose to mention from the EPL ever outspent other teams to the extent City have.
Nonsense post that ignores history. Liverpool is a club built on unearned owner investment. City won a european trophy before you and the FA cup 60 odd years before you so clearly you're a club built on owner money. Of course if you are in favour of cartel rigging corrupt ffp rules then i suppose City doing what you did seems wrong to you. Every fan who knows their stuff knows liverpool bought their trophies, everyone.
 

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MackRobinson

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They are the most balanced squad I've ever seen. They literally have no holes and don't depend on one player. I would rate Pep's treble winning Barca side as the best football team I've ever seen b/c of the Xavi/Iniesta/Messi trio. United's 07-09 squad was one of the better squads I've ever seen (especially in attack and defense).
 

SteveJ

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Meh, Eric would beat 'em on his own.
 

Gehrman

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Well domestically they are easily the best ever. But to be best ever english team they have to win the league and cl or treble. I think we can all agree that Pep is a luxury manager but the best luxury manager in the world. He will prob retire with more major trophies than fergie.