Which defensive midfielder?

[arthurka]

I'm not that impressed by him. 33yo Moutinho always looks the better player next to him, whenever I see Wolves.

For a 22 year old (turns 23 in march) he is outstanding. He will only get better, his passing range is fantastic and his shooting is world class. a 33 year old midfield maestro should be better than a 22 year old that isn´t really anything to take Neves down by. Plus he plays a deeper role that allows Moutinho to operate higher up field and have more influence on Wolves attack.

 

[MadMike]

For a 22 year old (turns 23 in march) he is outstanding. He will only get better, his passing range is fantastic and his shooting is world class. a 33 year old midfield maestro should be better than a 22 year old that isn´t really anything to take Neves down by. Plus he plays a deeper role that allows Moutinho to operate higher up field and have more influence on Wolves attack.

Yeah but he doesn't strike me as a DM. More as a deep playmaker, who apart from a great right foot, still has some way to go in learning to dictate game tempo. And if we have Bruno in the team, especially combined with Pogba, a deep playmaker is not what we need but a combtive DM. A Matic-style player that will focus in protecting the defence and filling in the gaps the other midfielders leave.

 

[arthurka]

Yeah but he doesn't strike me as a DM. More as a deep playmaker, who apart from a great right foot, still has some way to go in learning to dictate game tempo. And if we have Bruno in the team, especially combined with Pogba, a deep playmaker is not what we need but a combtive DM. A Matic-style player that will focus in protecting the defence and filling in the gaps the other midfielders leave.

That I can understand, with two playmakers adding a deeplying to the mix might be over the top, but Pogba is going this summer and adding him into the mix would give us more flexibility plus we would be deadly on the counter with his range.
But I get what you are saying him not being a natural DM and that is probably right.

 

[Cee90]

Neves would be class for us IMO.

 

[jackal&hyde]

I think it depends on Pogba tbh. If he stays then Pogba-Bruno as number 8s would need an all action pure DM. If he leaves and we have Bruno-Fred then we need a DM with good play making abilities.

 

[croadyman]

I think it depends on Pogba tbh. If he stays then Pogba-Bruno as number 8s would need an all action pure DM. If he leaves and we have Bruno-Fred then we need a DM with good play making abilities.

If he does leave as looks most likely then need another attacking option & DM in the summer.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Get Modric and Busquets from Spain and tell them to be exactly like Scholes and Carrick were in 2007/08 when we won the PL and CL.

Then tell Lingard to play like Ronaldo.

 

[PowerOfDreams]

I'd put Scott Mctominay in there, he can do it, then have Fred and Pogb or Bruno. Matic as backup. When all fit and, in theory, they're happy, we have good options.

 

[Hawks2008]

Neves is not mobile or defensively solid, for the money Wolves would want we should steer clear.

 

[luke511]

CAM = 1st option Bruno, 2nd option Grealish
No.8 = 1st option Grealish, 2nd option Fred, 3rd option McTominay
No.6 = 1st option Fred, 2nd option McTominay, 3rd option Matic

That would work fine for next season.

 

[AUnitedOpinion]

Depending on the formation and the way ole will want to play a DM will not be priority. If it was i would say go for Thomas Partey as he would add quality to the midfield.
As i think a DM would be low on our list i would go for Kalvin Phillips, looks composed on the ball and has a good range of passing along with good defensive work. Plus he shouldn't be a big money signing so we wont be obliged to play him every week.

 

[#07]

CAM = 1st option Bruno, 2nd option Grealish
No.8 = 1st option Grealish, 2nd option Fred, 3rd option McTominay
No.6 = 1st option Fred, 2nd option McTominay, 3rd option Matic

That would work fine for next season.

The problem is at no.6. Only Matic has natural defensive awareness positionally. By that I mean, Fred and McTominay are great at pressing the ball and are excellent harrying players and closing down space. However, they're not so good at knowing where they need to position themselves when we're forming a defensive block to stand up our opponents. Having a lot of energy and putting yourself about is not the same as being able to sniff danger, and knowing where to put yourself to cover gaps in defence when the centre backs sacrifce their position to mark an attacker or make a challenge.

Matic can barely move and, just by knowing the game, he's helped stabilise the team massively. If we got a mobile, natural in that positon it would have as big an impact on our midfield defensively as Bruno has had offensively.

 

[luke511]

The problem is at no.6. Only Matic has natural defensive awareness positionally. By that I mean, Fred and McTominay are great at pressing the ball and are excellent harrying players and closing down space. However, they're not so good at knowing where they need to position themselves when we're forming a defensive block to stand up our opponents. Having a lot of energy and putting yourself about is not the same as being able to sniff danger, and knowing where to put yourself to cover gaps in defence when the centre backs sacrifce their position to mark an attacker or make a challenge.

Matic can barely move and, just by knowing the game, he's helped stabilise the team massively. If we got a mobile, natural in that positon it would have as big an impact on our midfield defensively as Bruno has had offensively.

McTominay has looked solid every time he's played at no.6 so there's potential for that to be his strongest position in the future, and current in form Fred has the attributes to do a good job there as well with the right players in front of him (Grealish and Fernandes). A new defensive midfielder would be great and is kind of necessary, but I feel like signing Grealish would make a bigger impact overall and should be priority whilst we have McTominay and Fred that can do a solid job there.

 

[thepolice123]

McTominay has looked solid every time he's played at no.6 so there's potential for that to be his strongest position in the future, and current in form Fred has the attributes to do a good job there as well with the right players in front of him (Grealish and Fernandes). A new defensive midfielder would be great and is kind of necessary, but I feel like signing Grealish would make a bigger impact overall and should be priority whilst we have McTominay and Fred that can do a solid job there.

Fred and McT play best as box-to-box midfielders as demostrated today when Fred assisted McT and scored two himself. Makes no sense to buy Grealish and then try to convert them to #6.

 

[luke511]

Fred and McT play best as box-to-box midfielders as demostrated today when Fred assisted McT and scored two himself. Makes no sense to buy Grealish and then try to convert them to #6.

Yeah when it's 11 v 10 the no.6 becomes more of an 8 obviously, but before that Mctominay and Fred alternated between playing as a no.6 and they both looked comfortable. They're both well capable of playing as the deepest centre midfielder out of the 3 when the centre midfield is properly balanced so I wouldn't call it "converting".

 

[Hide_&_Seek]

with Bruno and probably Grealish(If he signed) as 2 CM, Fred/McT/Matic as no 6 wont be good, as 2 mention earlier will often caught high in oppostion's counter attack, so we need pure destroyer like Partey or Zakaria, who sit in front of deffence, so it'll be :

Grealish_______Bruno
______new DM______

or

__Grealish/Bruno__
Fred_________McT

depend on Manager set up and injury wise

 

[thepolice123]

Yeah when it's 11 v 10 the no.6 becomes more of an 8 obviously, but before that Mctominay and Fred alternated between playing as a no.6 and they both looked comfortable. They're both well capable of playing as the deepest centre midfielder out of the 3 when the centre midfield is properly balanced so I wouldn't call it "converting".

Hardly a #6 but more of a defensive #8. They played side-by-side similar to Keane-Scholes or Carrick-Scholes. One play sits back while the other goes forward and vice versa. They share the defensive load in midfield and frees up the #10 Bruno.

If we play Grealish and Fernandes, we definitely need a pure #6 like Casemiro or Ndidi who mainly sits back. Neither Fred nor McT are particularly good in that limited lone DM role, their engine and attacking play would also be wasted.

 

[Isotope]

Hardly a #6 but more of a defensive #8. They played side-by-side similar to Keane-Scholes or Carrick-Scholes. One play sits back while the other goes forward and vice versa. They share the defensive load in midfield and frees up the #10 Bruno.

If we play Grealish and Fernandes, we definitely need a pure #6 like Casemiro or Ndidi who mainly sits back. Neither Fred nor McT are particularly good in that limited lone DM role, their engine and attacking play would also be wasted.

And both Fred and McTom are not excellent tackler to be a pure DM.

 

[thepolice123]

And both Fred and McTom are not excellent tackler to be a pure DM.

Fred and McT in DM is one of the most bizarre notions I've see around here.

McT isn't exactly the most reliable passer we have and Fred is probably the physically weakest CM I've seen play for us. Never seen someone gets put on his arse as much as Fred.

 

[momo83]

Don’t think we’ll invest big on a DCM. McTomminay, Fred, Bruno will be given the chance to be the main three even if Pogba leaves. Might go for a Longstaff for if the price isn’t too heavy

 

[NoPace]

Rumours from terrible sources of a Pogba to Juventus for Ramsey + Rabiot (maybe some cash too but who knows) what do people think of that?

Pogba clearly wants to leave, this deal would solves the problem after selling Pogba which would be replacing him. 2 very good midfielders

In terms of players ability and boosting opting for Midfield, I think its a good deal. Issues i would have would be Rabiots attitude reputation, wages they'd demand, would also be hard to get away from the fact that both struggled to get game time at a top European cub so would feel like swapping Juventus rejects for our highest profile player (not best)

Rabiot and a big wad of cash like 50-60M would be alright, we'd have Fred/McTominay/Rabiot rotating for 2 deep midfield spots and could use the money to throw at Sancho or another RW like Traore. No backup for Bruno though, really, so when he's out it's probably 4-4-2 with James out left and that winger out right and 2 of Rashford/Martial/Greenwood up top.

Ramsey's injury record and being 29 it's tough to see the upside. I think he makes more sense just going back to Arsenal, who are dying for a midfielder with some ability going forward, or he should just stay put.

The attacking mid at Juve who makes sense for us squad-wise at Juve in a swap for Pogba deal (apart from Rabiot) but seems like maybe not a great fit for the Prem is Bernardeschi, since he could start at RW and be a real backup to Bruno as a 10. He's 26 and hasn't put it together yet but entering his prime and being first choice for us might do it:

--------------Martial---------------------- (Greenwood)
Rashford-Bruno-Bernardeschi (James, W)
----------Fred---McTominay-------- (CM, Matic)

and we'd have to buy a CM/DM to rotate with Fred and McTominay and if there's a hot shit teenage prospect at RW we could spend the 40-50M to go get him from Brazil or wherever and ease him in to the team a bit . Not enough star power there to challenge for top 2 but we wouldn't have thrown a position away like we did this year.

 

[MadMike]

Rabiot and a big wad of cash like 50-60M would be alright, we'd have Fred/McTominay/Rabiot rotating for 2 deep midfield spots and could use the money to throw at Sancho or another RW like Traore. No backup for Bruno though, really, so when he's out it's probably 4-4-2 with James out left and that winger out right and 2 of Rashford/Martial/Greenwood up top.

Ramsey's injury record and being 29 it's tough to see the upside. I think he makes more sense just going back to Arsenal, who are dying for a midfielder with some ability going forward, or he should just stay put.

The attacking mid at Juve who makes sense for us squad-wise at Juve in a swap for Pogba deal (apart from Rabiot) but seems like maybe not a great fit for the Prem is Bernardeschi, since he could start at RW and be a real backup to Bruno as a 10. He's 26 and hasn't put it together yet but entering his prime and being first choice for us might do it:

--------------Martial---------------------- (Greenwood)
Rashford-Bruno-Bernardeschi (James, W)
----------Fred---McTominay-------- (CM, Matic)

and we'd have to buy a CM/DM to rotate with Fred and McTominay and if there's a hot shit teenage prospect at RW we could spend the 40-50M to go get him from Brazil or wherever and ease him in to the team a bit . Not enough star power there to challenge for top 2 but we wouldn't have thrown a position away like we did this year.

I don’t know why you think an Italian player that failed to make his mark in Italy while playing for Juventus would make it in the EPL for United. He’s not gonna get any less pressure here and he’s not gonna be playing for a team that is well above its rivals, like Juve were for the last 3 year Bernardeschi was there. He’ll be in a more challenging and unfamiliar environment than the one he failed to establish himself in. Chances of making it here are very small.

Those are the kind of high risk moves that only desperate or extremely safe clubs (like Bayern) tend to try. I’d sooner take Zaha or Felipe Anderson over Bernardeschi and neither of those are anywhere near first class options.

 

[Infestissumam]

Denis Zakaria.

 

[Alexit]

Do we really need to play with one?

That's what I'm wondering also. Is this even a thing now? I don't think we need a specialist DM given our current midfield options.

 

[Infra-red]

That's what I'm wondering also. Is this even a thing now? I don't think we need a specialist DM given our current midfield options.

A #6 is still a thing at Barca, Real Madrid, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, PSG, Juve, Inter etc. Doesn't mean we necessarily have to have one, but it might not be the worst idea. Someone with a decent passing range, would be ideal.

 

[MattofManchester]

There's a lot of interesting ideas going around here. Personally, we should forget past sides, especially under Fergie, as the game has changed substantially. I think it also depends on the type of football the team wants to play. If we looked back to Carrick, and maybe even Matic currently, both became dedicated DMs known for their ability to read the game clearly and provide a line to intercept rather than put in strong tackles. However, Matic was capable of doing both, Carrick was never one to be that hard tackling DM. These players are the likes of Busquets, Schweinsteiger and Alonso. Currently, Matic does the role for us, but his forward passing has become increasingly suspect. The likes of Fabinho and Fernandinho are the best of both worlds, naturally playing for the two best clubs at the moment. Both can play that destroyer role for that club, as well as being able to act in a role of playing forward in front of the defence.

Casemiro, who is probably the best DM in world football at the moment, Ndidi and Rice are definitely destroyers. Casemiro does have a decent pass, but he's never gonna split the play in a forward role.

Every team who wants to play at the top level has to use a 3-man midfield, else run the risk of being overrun. I think Pep is the only one who recently experimented with Inverted fullbacks, who moved into midfield instead, back when they had Delph in the side.

I've seen people suggest Saul Niguez, but he's always seemed better in an offensive role. The thing about Atletico is they also sit deeper than we would, so there's more cover, and he usually has Partey alongside to help out.
Neves is the other one, and he's easily one of the best passers, but he's not mobile enough, and is definitely suited with a more mobile hard-tackling partner.

In terms of our squad, I think we need a younger, more mobile Matic. Basically, someone who can put in a strong tackles, provide a shield by himself(Matic struggles these days due to the mobility issue), and can still play the ball forward as Matic did in his younger days. Don't know why that's gone awry at United.

Reason is we have Bruno in the most advanced role, and if Pogba stays then you have one hella creative midfield. But then you need to protect them. Think Madrid with Kroos and Modric, with Casemiro to protect. Chances are the emergence of Valverde once Modric retires means they'll move away from Casemiro in favour of a more creative midfielder.

I don't understand why we'd sign Grealish to replace Pogba, because they'd occupy the same position. Someone in a creative advanced, but not goalscoring role would be more adequate. Someone similar to the way Tielemans sits and controls for Leicester. Perhaps Neves or Fabian Ruiz? We need a Scholes or a Xavi, basically, to dictate the game. If Pogba stays, he is more than capable if he would just damn well remain disciplined.

But, back to DM, I like Ndidi, although not the best passer, but he has great room for improvement. Allan may be another option, but when I watch him for Napoli, he loses the ball a lot. Vidal is also available at the end of the season, but I'm not so sure. I don't know too much about Zakaria either, but he seems to have great opinions of him floating about. I can't see Saul playing that role, so I'd have to go with opinion and think Zakaria would be the best option.

 

[sideshow_bob]

1) Ndidi
2) Partey
3) Zakaria

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

How much would Gladbach demand for Zakaria?

 

[unplayable]

How much would Gladbach demand for Zakaria?

I'd guess around 60-70m €.

 

[Adnan]

How much would Gladbach demand for Zakaria?

Max Eberl DoF: “We are extremely satisfied with Denis’ development and plan with him in the long term. Gladbach is and remains a club that relies on transfer fees. Of course, when we receive unrealistic offers, we have to deal with them,” Eberl said.

Around €50m would be enough IMO.

http://sportwitness.co.uk/mancheste...t-in-player-club-set-conditions-for-transfer/

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Max Eberl DoF: “We are extremely satisfied with Denis’ development and plan with him in the long term. Gladbach is and remains a club that relies on transfer fees. Of course, when we receive unrealistic offers, we have to deal with them,” Eberl said.

Around €50m would be enough IMO.

http://sportwitness.co.uk/mancheste...t-in-player-club-set-conditions-for-transfer/

Well, if Partey wants to stay at Atletico and has already shunned moves to England then Zakaria would be a fantastic alternative for a reasonable fee like that in this market.

Sancho
Grealish
Zakaria
Ighalo

That would be one of our very best summer windows for quite some time.

 

[Adnan]

Well, if Partey wants to stay at Atletico and has already shunned moves to England then he’d be a fantastic alternative for a fee that reasonable in this market.

Sancho
Grealish
Zakaria
Ighalo

That would be one of our very best summer windows for quite some time.

I'd be happy with that. Even happier if we sign all those and keep Pogba.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I'd be happy with that. Even happier if we sign all those and keep Pogba.

I personally think Pogba will go.

Right now for how much Sancho is being quoted for, that effectively is our whole transfer budget. We will need to raise a fair bit of cash to bring others in unless the Glazers/Woodward are really going to open the purse strings which I personally can’t see.

 

[MikeKing]

Allan may be another option, but when I watch him for Napoli, he loses the ball a lot. Vidal is also available at the end of the season, but I'm not so sure.

What about that other midfielder from Barca? Arthur?

 

[davidmichael]

McTominay and Fred are high energy defensive box to box midfielders so right now Matic is our only defensive midfielder and his legs are pretty much done, if Pogba goes we need another creative midfielder (Grealish ?) and a pure defensive midfielder to shield the defence for those games Fernandes and a new creative midfielder play together.

They'll be games where McTominay and Fred play together most likely alongside Fernandes but I wouldn’t want to see either McTominay or Fred as the defensive midfielder when Fernandes and another creative midfielder play together, it’s a pure defensive midfielder that’s needed.

 

[Albin Johansson]

This might come across as a dull suggestion/unpopular opinion but honestly what if we just resigned Herrera? I'm aware that he was more of a two-way workhorse than a DM but if anything he would be a massive upgrade as a squad/impact player on Pereria no? How's he doing at PSG, I saw something about him playing RB like wtf?

 

[SAFMUTD]

1) Ndidi
2) Partey
3) Zakaria

[/THREAD]

 

[Brightonian]

1) Ndidi
2) Partey
3) Zakaria

Yeah collating all the opinions on the thread, this does seem like a good take away.

 

[MattofManchester]

What about that other midfielder from Barca? Arthur?

Jim and De Jong are Barca's golden boys? They're never gonna leave. At least anytime soon.

 

[Aarron Swift]

Not sure this Summer is the transfer window in which we bring in a new DM.

McTominay has somewhat established himself as our 1st choice. Matic could sign a 1 year extension so DM is a position we sign someone next season as other positions seem more immediate. Whether Matic stays or goes Fred could also cover this position whilst also giving Garner around 10-15 apps all comps next year.

- CAM, No.8 & RW (to replace Pogba, Lingard & fill a position we are lacking) look to be our priorities this summer, even a new ST would go above DM in my opinion.