Which defensive midfielder?

MikeKing

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Jim and De Jong are Barca's golden boys? They're never gonna leave. At least anytime soon.
They could potentially use him to get a new golden boy in though, in Pogba. Is Arthur any good, would he be worth a straight swap with Pogz?
 

pascell

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A few months ago I said Partey, Zakaria or Phillips. I think it'll be Partey or Zakaria, I feel if Leeds get promoted, Phillips will want a season in the PL with them.

Partey would be my 1st choice though, if we could get him, Grealish, Sancho and a ST in summer, that would be brilliant.
 

tjb

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I really like Zakaria. Partey will be expensive and I'm not sure if that is the role he actually plays. Then again, I'm not much of a believer in designated defensive midfielders, particularly in a double pivot. A relationship like Keane and Butt or Petit and Veira would work best, where both parties have some impact on the offensive side of the game.
 

MattofManchester

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They could potentially use him to get a new golden boy in though, in Pogba. Is Arthur any good, would he be worth a straight swap with Pogz?
Not for Pogba, I think. He's an upgrade on everything we have bar Pogba, but I think he'd be another Di Maria. Hates the city. Hates the place, etc. Also, I've never seen him as THAT good. Barca's managers keep shipping him out the team, so I wouldn't say he's that irreplaceable midfielder. On the other hand, he's still developing.
 

tjb

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Not sure this Summer is the transfer window in which we bring in a new DM.

McTominay has somewhat established himself as our 1st choice. Matic could sign a 1 year extension so DM is a position we sign someone next season as other positions seem more immediate. Whether Matic stays or goes Fred could also cover this position whilst also giving Garner around 10-15 apps all comps next year.

- CAM, No.8 & RW (to replace Pogba, Lingard & fill a position we are lacking) look to be our priorities this summer, even a new ST would go above DM in my opinion.
I don't think either Mctominay or Fred are good enough to be indispensible. We at the very least need to provide competition for them. Just to clarify, an indispensible play in that role would be Fabinho for Liverpool, Fernandinho for City ( before this season), Casemiro for Real Madrid, Busquets for Barca or Kimmich for Bayern even Ndidi for Leicester. Mctominay hasn't reached that level of consistency yet and even last night proved that. Things like poor injury hampering performance or poor form can occur with him at the moment, that does not happen with the players above. We at least need another player of that quality or above to supplement those periods, i believe the same to be true for Martial.
 

MikeKing

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Not for Pogba, I think. He's an upgrade on everything we have bar Pogba, but I think he'd be another Di Maria. Hates the city. Hates the place, etc. Also, I've never seen him as THAT good. Barca's managers keep shipping him out the team, so I wouldn't say he's that irreplaceable midfielder. On the other hand, he's still developing.
Thanks mate. I thought he did incredibly well last season. Honestly now that Fred is performing to the levels he is, I'm not sure we need the type of midfielder he is. I like Rodri.
 

Isotope

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A few months ago I said Partey, Zakaria or Phillips. I think it'll be Partey or Zakaria, I feel if Leeds get promoted, Phillips will want a season in the PL with them.

Partey would be my 1st choice though, if we could get him, Grealish, Sancho and a ST in summer, that would be brilliant.
That would be the best summer window since forever. Even since Fergie's years.
 

MalcolmTucker

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This might come across as a dull suggestion/unpopular opinion but honestly what if we just resigned Herrera? I'm aware that he was more of a two-way workhorse than a DM but if anything he would be a massive upgrade as a squad/impact player on Pereria no? How's he doing at PSG, I saw something about him playing RB like wtf?
I loved Herrera and feel he was very unlucky and under used while he was here but it would be utterly ridiculous to resign Herrera

1) he just run his contract down and left for free
2) he's on silly wages and wouldn't take a pay cut
3) He plays the exact same role as McTominay and Fred, as an energetic box to box #8 type midfielder, which is probably the one area in midfield where we have depth.

Everything hinges on whether Pogba stays or not. I'm disappointed at the amount of posters who are ready to cast Fred to the bench despite him being our most consistent player this season in their fantasy midfield line-ups for next season.
 

NoPace

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I don’t know why you think an Italian player that failed to make his mark in Italy while playing for Juventus would make it in the EPL for United. He’s not gonna get any less pressure here and he’s not gonna be playing for a team that is well above its rivals, like Juve were for the last 3 year Bernardeschi was there. He’ll be in a more challenging and unfamiliar environment than the one he failed to establish himself in. Chances of making it here are very small.

Those are the kind of high risk moves that only desperate or extremely safe clubs (like Bayern) tend to try. I’d sooner take Zaha or Felipe Anderson over Bernardeschi and neither of those are anywhere near first class options.
I said I'm not sure he's a good fit for the Prem, just that a left-footed RW/10 is badly needed in the squad to start out right and also play as a 10 when Bruno is out (if Pogba leaves).

Anderson or Zaha are better LW options and we already have Rashford there and James has played better at LW than at RW this season too.

If we're choosing Juve players we can grab as part of a swap for Pogba obviously he's not in the first 5 or so, but he fits a massive gap in the squad. Same way that a left-footed player who can get assists as an LWB in a 3 at the back and be a potential starter at RW would help the squad a lot, so a player like Dwight McNeil at Burnley (who can do the former for sure and has shown signs that as a RW cutting in he could increase his goal threat) would make a lot more sense for us as signing than say Kovacic from Chelsea even if the latter is a better player but not as needed in our squad.
 

reddevil80

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Been looking online at Tonali recently and I have to say I am impressed and I think this kid could well be our future DM. He has an artistic sparkle of a Pirlo and the strength and determination of a Keane in my eyes.

I am guilty of looking on "youtube" as well as " wof " and " scout nation " and have seen the usual links of players to United so had a wee gander at some of them and I have to say, I like the look of Victor Osimhen of Lille.

I would like to rhink that Mejbri could possibly make a mark nex5 season amd I think the likes of Tonali and Bruno atound him would help him and the team too over the next few seasons. The likes of Osimhen would be a huge boost too in my opinion.

I believe the name van de Beek might also be on our list, that would not be a bad choice if that were also true but as usual, it is all rumours. The question though is which defensive midfielder and I woukd definitely lean toward Tonali with van de Beek if possible.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Depends what type of defensive midfielder Ole wants.

Deep-lying playmaker - Fabian Ruiz

Ball winning midfielder - Wilfred Ndidi
 

steve.crowford

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in 3-4-2-1 would be great Ndidi(McTominay)-Pogba(Garner) above them Bruno Fernandes(Rashford)-Havertz(Daniel James) and striker Martial(Greenwood) can be combined 2-1 or 1-2 depending on who is in the best shape at the moment.
 

Lynty

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in 3-4-2-1 would be great Ndidi(McTominay)-Pogba(Garner) above them Bruno Fernandes(Rashford)-Havertz(Daniel James) and striker Martial(Greenwood) can be combined 2-1 or 1-2 depending on who is in the best shape at the moment.
No thanks
 

Jezpeza

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Why not? Your desired midfield line-up with backups please.
To finish the season probably a 4-3-3, fred sat behind pogba and bruno, with a front 3 of rashford martial and greenwood or James.

backups in matic, garner, mctominay, pereira, lingard, mata.

beyond the summer? Hard to say, will pogba leave? We need a rightforward, preferably sancho but there are other good players out there. If pogba leaves then havertz looks good, van de beek, grealish. think it will be a low key window now, one or two signings, likely to see a few deadwood kept on in squad roles because of corona and its economic impact
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Anyone know how Kalvin Phillips was getting on prior to the pandemic?

To play in a Bielsa team, you have to be good on the ball and dynamic, which is something that has stood out every time I've watched him play.

Be a risk because we'd be asking him to make such a big jump, but he could prove to be a good addition.
 
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Jezpeza

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Anyone know how Calvin Phillips was getting on prior to the pandemic?

To play in a Bielsa team, you have to be good on the ball and dynamic, which is something that has stood out every time I've watched him play.

Be a risk because we'd be asking him to make such a big jump, but he could prove to be a good addition.
Neautral mate watched him get bossed by jude bellingham in a leeds birmingham Match. Phillips is 6/7 years older.

could just be a 20m version of garner for what he adds
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Neautral mate watched him get bossed by jude bellingham in a leeds birmingham Match. Phillips is 6/7 years older.

could just be a 20m version of garner for what he adds
Age has nothing to do with it. Guess it just goes to show how good Bellingham is, though.

I was just wondering because I have heard quite often that he's amongst one of the best players in the Championship. With the purchase of Dan James, it seems Ole and the staff are not opposed to bringing in players from the lower leagues.

Guess time will tell how good he is, but he certainly looks like someone who has the ability to play in the Premier League.
 

Jezpeza

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Age has nothing to do with it. Guess it just goes to show how good Bellingham is, though.

I was just wondering because I have heard quite often that he's amongst one of the best players in the Championship. With the purchase of Dan James, it seems Ole and the staff are not opposed to bringing in players from the lower leagues.

Guess time will tell how good he is, but he certainly looks like someone who has the ability to play in the Premier League.
It adds relevance if you consider that phillips has been quoted at about £20m and bellingham £30. Phillips is rumoured as a very good player but if it was one or the other i dont think theres any contest
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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It adds relevance if you consider that phillips has been quoted at about £20m and bellingham £30. Phillips is rumoured as a very good player but if it was one or the other i dont think theres any contest
They're completing different players, though.
 

Jezpeza

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They're completing different players, though.
yes. I think phillips is a decent player, I Just dont believe its worth spending a Portion of transfer budget on a defensive midfielder who is nearly 25, so not going to develop much more, and probably doesnt offer more than garner or mctominay.

he strikes me as a good signing for a team lower in the table
 

Lynty

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Why not? Your desired midfield line-up with backups please.
Line up was too narrow for me personally. And a bit unrealistic, but if we're talking fantasy midfield I'd want Frenkie or Saul.

In the real world, I don't think we need a DM for another season. Purchasing another creator for rotation and ready for Pogba to leave is more shrewd. It'll give us time to see how Fred and McTominay develop in the deeper role.

------Pogba----Fred------ -----(McTominay)----(Matic)--

------------Bruno------------ ----------------(Grealish)--------------

Andreas for depth, Gomes, Garner and Mejbri for development

I think we'll stick with a double pivot, as we've shown no inclination of changing and personally feel Pogba does do well in that system.
 

Harry190

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N'golo Kante still has a lot to give. If there's any chance to bring him to United, it should be seized ASAP.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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yes. I think phillips is a decent player, I Just dont believe its worth spending a Portion of transfer budget on a defensive midfielder who is nearly 25, so not going to develop much more, and probably doesnt offer more than garner or mctominay.

he strikes me as a good signing for a team lower in the table
Fair enough. To be honest, I haven't watched him much. Just wanted to hear how he's been getting on because I know he was linked to us and quite a number of other EPL teams a few months back.

Going forward, we do need to find a top class replacement for Matic. Matic, despite starting the season slowly, really stepped it up prior to the pandemic, and shown the importance of having such a fantastic reader of the game protecting the back four.

In an ideal world, Ndidi would be my replacement. I'd go as far as saying he's arguably the best in the world at what he does.

What are your thoughts on Declan Rice? He's no longer flavour of the month on here, but he's still a player who developing.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Line up was too narrow for me personally. And a bit unrealistic, but if we're talking fantasy midfield I'd want Frenkie or Saul.

In the real world, I don't think we need a DM for another season. Purchasing another creator for rotation and ready for Pogba to leave is more shrewd. It'll give us time to see how Fred and McTominay develop in the deeper role.

------Pogba----Fred------ -----(McTominay)----(Matic)--

------------Bruno------------ ----------------(Grealish)--------------

Andreas for depth, Gomes, Garner and Mejbri for development

I think we'll stick with a double pivot, as we've shown no inclination of changing and personally feel Pogba does do well in that system.
Good post.
 

7even

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Line up was too narrow for me personally. And a bit unrealistic, but if we're talking fantasy midfield I'd want Frenkie or Saul.

In the real world, I don't think we need a DM for another season. Purchasing another creator for rotation and ready for Pogba to leave is more shrewd. It'll give us time to see how Fred and McTominay develop in the deeper role.

------Pogba----Fred------ -----(McTominay)----(Matic)--

------------Bruno------------ ----------------(Grealish)--------------

Andreas for depth, Gomes, Garner and Mejbri for development

I think we'll stick with a double pivot, as we've shown no inclination of changing and personally feel Pogba does do well in that system.
Good post!

I also think we will continue with a double pivot but something indicates to me that when we have possession Ole will give Pogba license to move forward and rotate our midfield triangle a little bit. With that in mind I don’t think that Matic is a alternative playing 90 minutes. With five substitutes I can see us using all five of our midfielders in order to give Pogba the freedom he needs to be as effective as possible.

At the moment I don’t think a dm is a priority but if we sell Pogba then a combo of Grealish and DvdB has the potential to replace lost creativity and defensive duties and on top of that be effective in partnership with Bruno.
 

NoPace

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I was gonna say if McTominay is going to be a first choice player here it has to be as a #6 because he's not special creatively, but 6 in 51 at age 23 isn't bad goalscoring record, so maybe he could be a lesser Goretzka type who is our #3 CM after Bruno and Pogba or his replacement, and we buy a DM. Honestly I've doubted him and he's exceeded my expectations a lot so I should probably just wait and see.

But I think he is a better passer as a 6 breaking the lines ahead than he is further up the pitch and passing is where I tend to start my analysis of a CM, even if that means I'd have overpaid for Jorginho types and missed out on N'Didi types.
 

NoPace

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What are your thoughts on Declan Rice? He's no longer flavour of the month on here, but he's still a player who developing.
I think he's got a ton of potential as a CB. Good long passer, sniffs out danger, good in air. Doesn't have hunger to be available and get on the ball you want from a midfielder (which I thought doomed Schneiderlin more than any other tangible observable thing since people will say his confidence but we can't know about that) but other than that defect I'm a fan. If we spent big on him as a fulltime CB I'd be fine with it.
 

NoPace

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Line up was too narrow for me personally. And a bit unrealistic, but if we're talking fantasy midfield I'd want Frenkie or Saul.

In the real world, I don't think we need a DM for another season. Purchasing another creator for rotation and ready for Pogba to leave is more shrewd. It'll give us time to see how Fred and McTominay develop in the deeper role.

------Pogba----Fred------ -----(McTominay)----(Matic)--

------------Bruno------------ ----------------(Grealish)--------------

Andreas for depth, Gomes, Garner and Mejbri for development

I think we'll stick with a double pivot, as we've shown no inclination of changing and personally feel Pogba does do well in that system.
This looks great to me.

I think our next window has become extremely clear, assuming Pogba stays:

1. A starting right-winger
2. Grealish or a similar #10/narrow wide creator type to help Bruno or Pogba create when the other is hurt, and a change the game off the bench or diamond midfield option or narrow wide type, basically a someone who gives us the versatility and plan B Zidane got from Isco when the won the CL those 2 years
3. An offensively dynamic or creative playmaking left-back since Wan-Bissaka is defensively oriented on the other side
4. CB on either side really, to start with Maguire
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This looks great to me.

I think our next window has become extremely clear, assuming Pogba stays:

1. A starting right-winger
2. Grealish or a similar #10/narrow wide creator type to help Bruno or Pogba create when the other is hurt, and a change the game off the bench or diamond midfield option or narrow wide type, basically a someone who gives us the versatility and plan B Zidane got from Isco when the won the CL those 2 years
3. An offensively dynamic or creative playmaking left-back since Wan-Bissaka is defensively oriented on the other side
4. CB on either side really, to start with Maguire
I'd put CB second. I also doubt we are thinking of a left back
 

Lynty

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I'd put CB second. I also doubt we are thinking of a left back
I'd say a creative mid is 2nd over a CB or DM. Two main reasons:

1. We've learned the hard way how important it is to have multiple sources of creativity. Teams was able to neutralise us by doubling up on pogba with little threat of our other midfielders capitalising. An injury to one of Bruno or Pogba would put us back in the same scenario.

2. We don't want a scenario next summer where Pogba is sold, and we're in the market for two starting midfielders with everyone knowing we're desperate with money to spend. It destroys any leverage we have in negotiations. When Grealish, VdB and Bellingham are all clearly available this summer for reasonable fees.
 

RkkMan

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Unpopular one but Declan Rice. He`s definitely leaving next year if not this year and would settle into Utd quickly since he has PL experience. Not to mention he`s just 21 with a lot of room for growth. Could understand people who would be against him as he`s not as exotic but he`d be the perfect anchor for Pogba/Bruno IMO.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Unpopular one but Declan Rice. He`s definitely leaving next year if not this year and would settle into Utd quickly since he has PL experience. Not to mention he`s just 21 with a lot of room for growth. Could understand people who would be against him as he`s not as exotic but he`d be the perfect anchor for Pogba/Bruno IMO.
Genuine question. Have you watched him alot this season? How has he been?
 

Bebestation

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Unpopular one but Declan Rice. He`s definitely leaving next year if not this year and would settle into Utd quickly since he has PL experience. Not to mention he`s just 21 with a lot of room for growth. Could understand people who would be against him as he`s not as exotic but he`d be the perfect anchor for Pogba/Bruno IMO.
He is the type of player I think Ole will end up going for - a CB/CDM.

We currently have two formations we play, the 4231, our attacking formation and 352 which is our defensive formation.

I think having a CDM that is able to drop in between our 2 CB and create a temporary back 3 in a game allows us to have the right balance of having a defensive formation and an attacking one.

We basically about to play two very attacking minded midfielders who need to be shielded by a very defensive minded DM. We have defensive fullbacks as well that would allow our central game to be absolutely crazy if we got the right ball playing CB's - I saw a bit of this already before Bruno came when Pogba was on the pitch vs Newcastle, we have wide attackers in Rashford/Greenwood, Martial plays like a glue player, very deep and supportive trying to interlink players around him before getting in the box whilst Pogba and Bruno end up having the freedom to make runs and take shots.

However, we need a CDM who interlink with the CB's and full backs to guard the defensive line if we do play such a attacking line up.

The best attacking lineups play 235 (city & Liverpool) & I dont see why our attacking 5 shouldn't include Pogba & Bruno. Defensively this switches exactly to a 532 if we get someone like Declan rice.

The fact that he doesnt seem to be particularly flared in his gameplay actually makes me wonder more and more that he is the right player at CDM - a bit like how AWB and Shaw have just been great defensively without being particularly attacking in their approach.
 

RkkMan

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Genuine question. Have you watched him alot this season? How has he been?
I`ve watched a fair bit of him and IMO he`s been West Ham`s best player this season. He`s improved on the ball something people criticized him a lot for in the past and a good ball carrier. He has the grit of a typical anchorman and never afraid to stick his leg in a challenge. He`s not a hybrid no8/6 like some of the midfielders being mentioned here like Partey he`s an out out DM in the mould of Matic in his prime with less ability on the ball but not by a huge distance. If we want a midfielder who can add the defensive solidity needed to make Pogba/Bruno thrive Rice is the perfect one in my opinion. His age and PL experience make him very ideal as he has a lot of room for growth. The only other ideal DM I could think of close to him is Ndidi.
 

RkkMan

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He is the type of player I think Ole will end up going for - a CB/CDM.

We currently have two formations we play, the 4231, our attacking formation and 352 which is our defensive formation.

I think having a CDM that is able to drop in between our 2 CB and create a temporary back 3 in a game allows us to have the right balance of having a defensive formation and an attacking one.

We basically about to play two very attacking minded midfielders who need to be shielded by a very defensive minded DM. We have defensive fullbacks as well that would allow our central game to be absolutely crazy if we got the right ball playing CB's - I saw a bit of this already before Bruno came when Pogba was on the pitch vs Newcastle, we have wide attackers in Rashford/Greenwood, Martial plays like a glue player, very deep and supportive trying to interlink players around him before getting in the box whilst Pogba and Bruno end up having the freedom to make runs and take shots.

However, we need a CDM who interlink with the CB's and full backs to guard the defensive line if we do play such a attacking line up.

The best attacking lineups play 235 (city & Liverpool) & I dont see why our attacking 5 shouldn't include Pogba & Bruno. Defensively this switches exactly to a 532 if we get someone like Declan rice.

The fact that he doesnt seem to be particularly flared in his gameplay actually makes me wonder more and more that he is the right player at CDM - a bit like how AWB and Shaw have just been great defensively without being particularly attacking in their approach.
That ability to act as a link to the fullbacks and the CBs is why I think he`s perfect. If Pogba had Fred`s type of work rate we wouldn`t need an out out DM but his lack of discipline and Bruno`s attacking nature is why I think Utd need an old school prototype DM rather than a hybrid CM/DM. He will be to us what Matic was in his Chelsea spell under Mourinho but for a much longer time cause he is still very young.